You are unemployed and want a new job, under a Democratic president you have a better chance of getting one!

[Luckyone]

0bama dug us in deeper. Then the economy naturally rebounded despite 0bama's damage.

BS

 

[protectionist]

BS

 

[protectionist]

Corporations aren't controlled or owned by those who work them, but by a small class of wealthy ruling elites. The rich who you worship, like Elon Musk and others, receive all of the government assistance for their privately owned ventures but when the working class want their government to help them (invest in their success and lives), it's automatically framed and defined as "Look at these lazy bums who don't want to work and support themselves, living off of the govnmnt"..."You just want to live off of the govnmnt". If the wealthy ruling class can get their privately owned business enterprises sponsored, in many ways, by the "govnmnt", then working class people can also have the "govnmnt" invest in them, assisting them, however it can, to help them become more productive, healthier, secure, successful..etc.

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander. If the rich can get socialism, so can the working-class. Again, all of you right-wing conservative Republicans, who are constantly crapping on the notion of the government investing resources in the American people, are hypocrites. The irony is that many of you are of the working-class, even if you're in your 70s and 80s, and retired. You're likely receiving Social Security, Medicare..etc, and you still have the gall, the audacity to crap on those who are in the workforce, and assert their rights as workers and expect their government to serve them too, not just the rich and powerful employers/exploiters.

​

The USA is a COMBINATION of capitalism and socialism. In general, ir works well for those who benefit from both facets.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We need them, but we do not need them to be as rich as they are. I would rather the government spend that money of fighting global warming, and stuff like that.

Right.
Because the government knows how to spend money so much better. LOL!

 

[The Duke]

How did they create 51 million jobs? What was it they brought?

2/3 of the jobs they destroyed at 3/4 capacity.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The USA is a COMBINATION of capitalism and socialism. In general, ir works well for those who benefit from both facets.

The US is a neoliberal, market-run plutocracy, with very little socialism for the average Joe American, the working-class, under the heel of their wealthy MASTERS:

"What are the common wages of labor, depends everywhere upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine (To form labor unions) in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labor.

It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine (In the form of chambers of commerce, industry-specific associations, and guilds, super-PACs, non-profit front organizations/NGOs, armies of lobbyists bribing politicians in the halls of government, think tanks staffed by Ivy league analysts and scholars who write the papers and legislation that they hand to the lobbyists, to give to their cronies in the US Congress) much more easily; and the law, besides, authorises, or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen.

We have no acts of parliament against combining to lower the price of work; but many against combining to raise it. In all such disputes the masters can hold out much longer. A landlord, a farmer, a master manufacturer, or merchant, though they did not employ a single workman, could generally live a year or two upon the stocks which they have already acquired. Many workmen could not subsist a week, few could subsist a month, and scarce any a year without employment. In the long-run the workman may be as necessary to his master as his master is to him, but the necessity is not so immediate.

We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject. Masters are always and every where in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labour above their actual rate. To violate this combination is every where a most unpopular action, and a sort of reproach to a master among his neighbours and equals." (Wealth Of Nations - Book I, Chapter VIII by Adam Smith, the father of capitalism)

Emphasis is mine.

Western European countries, and practically every other industrialized, modern society, have mixed economies, with higher life expectancies, happier citizens, robust social safety nets, significantly better work conditions, and workforces that are unionized and protected by their governments. The American worker was once the "aristocracy of labor", considered the highest paid, best benefits and work conditions, with the highest purchasing power. 1/3rd of American labor was unionized and fully conscious of their class interests.

That all ended with these guys:

​

They gutted our manufacturing base and good blue-collar jobs, hanging our working class out to dry, in a lifeless desert. That's what supply-side, trickle down, Reaganomics did to the American workforce. It turned an economy based on manufacturing, producing real goods - MADE IN THE USA, into a Wall Street casino. An economy based on speculative trading and finance.

Blue collar jobs that can sustain a family and purchase a house cash, like my grandfather did in the mid 1960s, after being here only four years, as a Cuban migrant, with a wife and three children. That's gone. He was spraying fiberglass on yacht hull molds, all day, for Bertram Yachts on the Miami, River. He supported a family and saved money, buying a house cash without a bank loan. Try doing that today with a blue collar job. The cost of living today is obscene. It's been that way for years. Way before Biden and Trump.

 

[Hector12]

Right.
Because the government knows how to spend money so much better. LOL!

The voters know how to spend the money of the rich better than the rich do.

 

[Hector12]

We should take their money and just kill them......for fairness.

That is not what I suggested. It is an example of the straw man fallacy.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Right.
Because the government knows how to spend money so much better. LOL!

No the wealthy capitalist ruling elites who serve nothing more than their own vested interests, to the detriment of everyone else, know how to spend our national commonwealth, our national resources, better than our elected officials, who are in office, to serve the American people. Are capitalist obligated by law to allocate their privately owned assets and resources to serve the community? No, that's the government's function, that's why we created it.

It's a civil institution, a social apparatus, organized by the people to manage their large-scale socioeconomic, civil affairs. A democratic, constitutional republic, is nothing more than a management tool, and it should be under the heel of the American people, not rich, self-serving plutocratic sociopaths, that don't give a rats ass about the USA. The least patriotic people in our country are these big money capitalists with dual citizenship, foreign bank accounts, and real estate all over the world. They don't care about America, their only concern is their wealth and power. That's it. If the shit hits the fan here in America, they're the first ones to flee to Singapore or Dubai, in their 12 million dollar Learjets and 100 million dollar mega yachts.

​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The voters know how to spend the money of the rich better than the rich do.

Keep trying to worm your way back into the good graces of your leftist friends.

You really turned a lot of them off with your comments supporting Israel and the Jews.

 

[Hector12]

Keep trying to worm your way back into the good graces of your leftist friends.

You really turned a lot of them off with your comments supporting Israel and the Jews.

I can live with that. I am not partisan. I am not ideological. Until the aftermath of the 1967 Six Day War, Democrats were more sympathetic to Israel than Republicans were.

During the War in Vietnam I joined the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee. This developed into Democratic Socialists of America. Virtually everyone in SDOC supported Israel and Zionism.

 

[protectionist]

The US is a neoliberal, market-run plutocracy, with very little socialism for the average Joe American, the working-class, under the heel of their wealthy MASTERS:

"What are the common wages of labor, depends everywhere upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine (To form labor unions) in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labor.

It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine (In the form of chambers of commerce, industry-specific associations, and guilds, super-PACs, non-profit front organizations/NGOs, armies of lobbyists bribing politicians in the halls of government, think tanks staffed by Ivy league analysts and scholars who write the papers and legislation that they hand to the lobbyists, to give to their cronies in the US Congress) much more easily; and the law, besides, authorises, or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen.

We have no acts of parliament against combining to lower the price of work; but many against combining to raise it. In all such disputes the masters can hold out much longer. A landlord, a farmer, a master manufacturer, or merchant, though they did not employ a single workman, could generally live a year or two upon the stocks which they have already acquired. Many workmen could not subsist a week, few could subsist a month, and scarce any a year without employment. In the long-run the workman may be as necessary to his master as his master is to him, but the necessity is not so immediate.

We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject. Masters are always and every where in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labour above their actual rate. To violate this combination is every where a most unpopular action, and a sort of reproach to a master among his neighbours and equals." (Wealth Of Nations - Book I, Chapter VIII by Adam Smith, the father of capitalism)

Emphasis is mine.

Western European countries, and practically every other industrialized, modern society, have mixed economies, with higher life expectancies, happier citizens, robust social safety nets, significantly better work conditions, and workforces that are unionized and protected by their governments. The American worker was once the "aristocracy of labor", considered the highest paid, best benefits and work conditions, with the highest purchasing power. 1/3rd of American labor was unionized and fully conscious of their class interests.

View attachment 1021285​

That all ended with these guys:

View attachment 1021282​

They gutted our manufacturing base and good blue-collar jobs, hanging our working class out to dry, in a lifeless desert. That's what supply-side, trickle down, Reaganomics did to the American workforce. It turned an economy based on manufacturing, producing real goods - MADE IN THE USA, into a Wall Street casino. An economy based on speculative trading and finance.

Blue collar jobs that can sustain a family and purchase a house cash, like my grandfather did in the mid 1960s, after being here only four years, as a Cuban migrant, with a wife and three children. That's gone. He was spraying fiberglass on yacht hull molds, all day, for Bertram Yachts on the Miami, River. He supported a family and saved money, buying a house cash without a bank loan. Try doing that today with a blue collar job. The cost of living today is obscene. It's been that way for years. Way before Biden and Trump.

Thanks for the age-old spiel that I got fully hooked into 55 years ago, and was a Democrat & Green for 40 years afterward.

With all the lunacy of the left we have today all this grandiose ideology has been sidelined by Democrats in favor of racist pandering to blacks, pandering to illegal migrants, pandering to sex perverts, and God knows who else, all for VOTES.

Yes, the cost of living today is obscene, but NO, it absolutely was NOT that way before Biden and Trump. As I stated previously in this thread,
housing rents have skyrocketed more & faster that anything imaginable in all my 78 years. My own case is a good example. In 2020, I was paying $600/mo for a 1 bdrm apartment. Through all Trump's years, my rent went up $25 each year.
In 2021, it went to $850. In 2022, $1000. In 2023, $1200. In 2024, still $1200 (100% inflation), but some apartments are required to be renovated, pushing the rent ro $1600/mo (167% inflation).
Apartments that were less than $1000/mo under Trump, are now $2000/mo, commonly.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I can live with that. I am not partisan. I am not ideological.

Baloney.

You're a big commie.

But you like the Jews, so all the other commies are mad at you.

 

[Hector12]

Baloney.

You're a big commie.

But you like the Jews, so all the other commies are mad at you.

I think Karl Marx had two valid insights, and that he was mistaken about everything else. I have known and liked members of the American Communist Party. They disagreed with most of my opinions, but they disagreed without being disagreeable.