You gotta give Trump credit for being able to admit military defeat and go home

[BlindBoo]

LOL. You're confused. That was what they were disputing.

"This is a line of argumentation that Bush administration officials and Iraq war boosters have been clinging to ever since it became clear that U.S. troops would found no mobile biological weapons labs and no Mutual Admiration Society correspondence between Saddam and Osama. “We were wrong just like everyone else” isn’t a particularly compelling argument, though I suppose that if you’re responsible for one of the modern era’s most significant foreign policy disasters, “shared incompetence” is a more appealing excuse than “willful deception.”

They systematically lied us for over a year get us into the greatest strategic blunder in US history since Lee's failed assault on the Union forces at Gettysburg. Cost the lives of thousand of US service men and women, and countless Iraqis. Led tot he Iraq civil war and their new alignment with Iran. Not to mention spawning Al Qaeda in Iraq and eventually ISIS. No wonder the Bushes want to spread the blame around.

What the fuck are you talking about? It is 100% confirmed that Bush got bad intel. Okay yes he lied technically , but he didn't know it was a lie. He was told by the people who's job it was to determine whether Iraq had WMDs or not that they did. Congress got the EXACT same intel. That's why they agreed with Bush about going into Iraq.

The claim was that the intel community shouldn't be blamed for Bush's lie, and that's bullshit. They gave him faulty intel. As they do a lot more than you morons realize.

Yup. Bush got the same intel every intelligence agency in the world got. they all thought he had WMD's. In fact he probably did. He just shipped it all to Syria.

Not Bush's fault if the intel was bad.

100% Bush’s fault. There was never any confirmation that Iraq had WMD’s, and the Dubya admin didn’t care.

Rice and Powell even said so in the summer of 2001. But the agenda was set and the facts were being fixed around the talking points with the help of a compliant media (yes that so called Liberal media) who wanted to be first in bed with the Military.

But the thing is, one can term Iraq a success. I was against it all along. And it always was about Nation Building. And as you say, we knew going in that Saddam no longer had any functioning weapons program, and the Iraqis had lost track of most of their own chem weapons. The war, loss of 4000 Americans, maiming of tens of thousands, and Iraqi casualties somewhere around the same figure as the Holocaust

But Iraq is more or less a functioning democracy. Before the invasion, Iran was more democratic. Iraq had their own ethnic cleansing, and as a result the old Army became dead or ISIS. And Iraq couldn't defend itself. And they didn't want the US military around either. And they still don't. Was it worth it? We may not know for 30 years or more.

And Trump was for it before he was against it. And it looks like he's come around to being for it again. No FLIP FLOPS for President Bone Spurs.

Imo here is the success we spent lives and treasure on.

Iraq’s oil production has nearly doubled over the past decade - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

 

[Godboy]

And Obama essentially played out an already lost war for 8 years. And give Biden some credit for opposing Hillary's direct military intervention to nation build for just keeping some Seal Teams on standby with a whole lot of Hellfire missiles and drones.

Another neocon defeat brought to you by W, Cheney, et al.

As Trump administration negotiates peace with Taliban, some retired U.S. generals see defeat

Military defeat? That sounds serious. How many Americans died compared to how many taliban died?

 

[Godboy]

As with North Vietnam more than 50 years ago, the Taliban will patiently wait for the Americans to leave, however long it takes.

Such is GWB's failed, illegal war.

A shit-ton of your precious democrats threw in with that disaster, hack....Now....

View attachment 244798

Who wanted more American soldiers to die when it became apparent Iraq had no WMD’s? How many people did you call ”soldier hating traitors” for wanting to bring them home?

You were called "soldier hating traitors" because you hate soldiers and you are traitors. Hopefully that clears things up for you.

 

[bendog]

I sincerely think W, and Condi and Powell, thought establishing an Iraqi democracy would hurt the growth of terrorism in and from the ME .... and African states too.

And Trump was for it, then against it, and now he wants to be part of nation building by keeping our troops there.

Afghan is another issue. But Trump is literally throwing in the towel there. I can't argue with that because imo all along we should have just insisted the Taliban stop giving safe haven to terrorist who would attack us. I think we should have funded a form of free television educational programming by and for Muslims though

 

[bendog]

1 piece of bad intel does not mean a celebrity grifter knows more than our intelligence agencies. Had that intel gone to an administration that wasn’t desperate for war in Iraq, the next report may have negated it. Instead, it went to an administration that proclaimed countless lies that the intelligence community DID NOT corroborate, because they desperately wanted war, and so did their supporters.

Who cares, your claim that the IC didn't get it wrong about Iraq was wrong, but you aren't an honest enough person to admit it.

They didn’t get it wrong. They couldn’t prove it one way or the other. Dubya and his band of murderers and morons ran with the opportunity.

Of course they couldn't prove it either way . The CIA rarely states stuff as 100% fact, instead they rate stuff by confidence and they rated as highly confident that Iraq had WMDs. This was CONFIRMED by the commission that booboo or whatever linked to earlier in this thread. They absolutely positively told Bush and Congress that they were HIGHLY CONFIDENT that Iraq had WMDs

You are so pathetic that you cant even acknowledge this point of fact and follow it up with "But I disagree with how Bush responded to this intel" which would actually be a legitimate argument to make.

Do you leftists EVER care about actual facts? EVER?

You are a confirmed moroonie. You simply misread the article. Ask someone you trust to read it and explain it to you.

No , you misread, it clearly states that the intel Bush relieved was wrong. That he DID get intel that Iraq had WMD. That you stupidly don't understand how intel is rated is immaterial.

they LIED. But with good intentions. Even Powell admitted it.

 

[pismoe]

How do they define victory?

We no longer fight to victory. Victory is going there, killing everyone and imposing our ideas on a different people. That works.

We fight with the idea that someday the enemy will change their minds. That doesn't work.

-------------------------------------------- read Tipsys post number 2 again , its the only way to fight a war . Its old style and was done with great success in WW2 in 2 theatres of War Bendog .

 

[pismoe]

fecking around for 17 years in the middle east is stupid Bendog .

 

[BlindBoo]

And Obama essentially played out an already lost war for 8 years. And give Biden some credit for opposing Hillary's direct military intervention to nation build for just keeping some Seal Teams on standby with a whole lot of Hellfire missiles and drones.

Another neocon defeat brought to you by W, Cheney, et al.

As Trump administration negotiates peace with Taliban, some retired U.S. generals see defeat

Military defeat? That sounds serious. How many Americans died compared to how many taliban died?

How many Vietcong did we kill? Did we ever lose a major battle there?

 

[BlindBoo]

fecking around for 17 years in the middle east is stupid Bendog .

17 Years?

"Ancient History": U.S. Conduct in the Middle East Since World War II and the Folly of Intervention

And that was written 28 years ago. However unilateral withdrawal would leave a lot of friends swinging in the wind if you know what I mean.

 

[pismoe]

17 years refers to the current wars that are being fought . As far as these friends , feck them also if they aren't Israel BBoo .

 

[Godboy]

And Obama essentially played out an already lost war for 8 years. And give Biden some credit for opposing Hillary's direct military intervention to nation build for just keeping some Seal Teams on standby with a whole lot of Hellfire missiles and drones.

Another neocon defeat brought to you by W, Cheney, et al.

As Trump administration negotiates peace with Taliban, some retired U.S. generals see defeat

Military defeat? That sounds serious. How many Americans died compared to how many taliban died?

How many Vietcong did we kill? Did we ever lose a major battle there?

Nope, which is why we never "lost" the vietnam war. Deciding to walk away after you kick the shit out of someone doesnt mean you lost the fight.

 

[Likkmee]

How do they define victory?

We no longer fight to victory. Victory is going there, killing everyone and imposing our ideas on a different people. That works.

We fight with the idea that someday the enemy will change their minds. That doesn't work.

Yep. Go in kill the enemy. Knock the buildings down. Declare victory and go home.

Let them rebuild. Who cares about their hearts and minds. I sure don't

you forgot "loan them the money to rebuild"....then sell them better guns !

 

[BWK]

And Obama essentially played out an already lost war for 8 years. And give Biden some credit for opposing Hillary's direct military intervention to nation build for just keeping some Seal Teams on standby with a whole lot of Hellfire missiles and drones.

Another neocon defeat brought to you by W, Cheney, et al.

As Trump administration negotiates peace with Taliban, some retired U.S. generals see defeat

Trump doesn't see it as a defeat. He sees it as an opportunity. Just remember my words. If Trump is around long enough, he will install a mercenary army headed up by Eric Prince, with a few Taliban butt boys getting paid good money to open the gateway for mining minerals in Afghanistan. They are filthy rich in minerals and Eric Prince is on deck to take over. Stay tuned.

 

[BWK]

What? He's not leaving Iraq without the oil is he?

No, he's going to install Eric Prince to go after minerals in Afghanistan.

 

[BlindBoo]

And Obama essentially played out an already lost war for 8 years. And give Biden some credit for opposing Hillary's direct military intervention to nation build for just keeping some Seal Teams on standby with a whole lot of Hellfire missiles and drones.

Another neocon defeat brought to you by W, Cheney, et al.

As Trump administration negotiates peace with Taliban, some retired U.S. generals see defeat

Military defeat? That sounds serious. How many Americans died compared to how many taliban died?

How many Vietcong did we kill? Did we ever lose a major battle there?

Nope, which is why we never "lost" the vietnam war. Deciding to walk away after you kick the shit out of someone doesnt mean you lost the fight.

Sure didn't look like victory when all those tanks rolled into Saigon.

 

[bendog]

They're there and we left. That means we "Lost."

I don't think there was ever a victory to be had in Afghan ... or Vietnam. What we selling as our idea of their post-war society they didn't want.

I'll give Trump credit for pulling the Aghan plug, but it is a loss. And he's flipped flopped and flipped on Iraq. And we didn't kill all of Isis.

 

[Godboy]

And Obama essentially played out an already lost war for 8 years. And give Biden some credit for opposing Hillary's direct military intervention to nation build for just keeping some Seal Teams on standby with a whole lot of Hellfire missiles and drones.

Another neocon defeat brought to you by W, Cheney, et al.

As Trump administration negotiates peace with Taliban, some retired U.S. generals see defeat

Military defeat? That sounds serious. How many Americans died compared to how many taliban died?

How many Vietcong did we kill? Did we ever lose a major battle there?

Nope, which is why we never "lost" the vietnam war. Deciding to walk away after you kick the shit out of someone doesnt mean you lost the fight.

Sure didn't look like victory when all those tanks rolled into Saigon.

Dont confuse failing to meet a goal because politicians have weak stomachs with "losing the war".

US deaths = 64,000
North Vietnam deaths = 1,000,000-1,500,000

Yeah, id say it was a crushing victory for the US military. The US military did their part, plus extra credit.

 

[Godboy]

They're there and we left. That means we "Lost."

I don't think there was ever a victory to be had in Afghan ... or Vietnam. What we selling as our idea of their post-war society they didn't want.

I'll give Trump credit for pulling the Aghan plug, but it is a loss. And he's flipped flopped and flipped on Iraq. And we didn't kill all of Isis.

So if i go to your house and smack the shit out of you, then afterwards i casually drive to McDonalds for a Big Mac, you call that a defeat? Looks like a win/win to me.