Zarqawi's Grisly Path To Power

[CSM]

No I don't want to execute some PFC for "putting panties on some guys head". You must have missed the fact that at least two detainee's were beaten to death at Abu Gharib. The description is that two were beaten to death and the room in which it was done was "covered in blood".

As for it being remembered in military circles - evidently not since you think this is about panties on heads, not cold blooded murder.

Wade.

Evidently you are so intent on making your point that you didn't read my post in its entirety. Either that or you are purposely misrepresenting what I said.

 

[wade]

it's as if John Kerry himself joined the board.

It is not a "flip flop" to say that in some cases I believe torture is acceptable.

Lets say the enemy conducts a raid and kidnaps some of our people, and in that raid one of them is knocked unconscious and left behind. I have no problems with torturing this individual in order to get whatever information can be gotten as quickly as possible in order to try to rescue our personel.

Or lets say that there are time bombs going off in the city and we capture someone placing one of these same kinds of bombs. I have no problem with torturing that individual in order to locate any time bombs that might be out there.

In these instances the info being sought is specific, and it is time-critical, and there are lives at stake.

What I do have a problem with is generalized torture, where you have no idea what kind of info you might get, or even if the individual has an info, but torture him anyway just because he might.

Wade.

 

[wade]

Evidently you are so intent on making your point that you didn't read my post in its entirety. Either that or you are purposely misrepresenting what I said.

Sorry, I did miss it. I'm having a problem with spyware and trojans trying to get into my system right now - trying to track it down.

Kinda distracted by this. Hope it is not this board!

Wade.

 

[CSM]

Sorry, I did miss it. I'm having a problem with spyware and trojans trying to get into my system right now - trying to track it down.

Kinda distracted by this. Hope it is not this board!

Wade.

Not a problem really. I hope it isn't this board also, although I dont seem to be having any problems. Good luck with that; no one deserves that stuff.

 

[wade]

I don't think it is this board. I'm trying a new spyware/trojan catcher, as AVG was not doing a sufficient job. It seems to catch most stuff, but apparently there is often a delay. I open a lot of pages and then later I'm seeing a list of suspended cookies and other stuff on a popup.

Wade.

 

[eric]

No, you can rest assured it is not this site !

 

[Zhukov]

What we heard about were ill defined abuses, and that there were some abuses. What we did not hear about was outright torture, murder, and rape, and I don't believe we ever would have if the story had not been leaked to the press.

Well, I've sent a request to the DoD for transcripts of Gen. Kimmitt's 16 January 2004 press release, since I can't seem to find it. However, considering the way the press has been these past couple of years, I would have to imagine if administration officials were saying 'so-and-so told you all about this months ago' and not a single one of them could confirm it we'd have yet another front page story. Don't you know how thirsty they are for a "Rumsfeld Lied" headline?

However, in other incidents, not related to abu ghraib, we had previously heard reports of beating deaths and other criminal acts in both Iraq and Afghanistan. They would have answered questions, if asked. I doubt they would have released pictures, and I seriously doubt they wanted this amount of attention for the incident. Just the same I do not believe they were trying to cover it up.

 

[wade]

Well, all this just obscures the point that to the Arab World it is the USA that has set the tone of brutality towards helpless captives. They didn't start these brutal beheadings presented on film until after the cat was out of the bag about Abu Gharib.

Wade.

 

[wade]

BTW: In no way am I saying we should not hunt down the perpetrators and kill them. I'm just saying that, to a degree, we brought this upon ourselves and we should realize this and not make this error again.

Wade.

 

[nycflasher]

I don't see how we can get outraged about the beheading of Coalition forces...

A) Some people just don't get it.

B) While the torture of prisoners(refering to incidents like Abu) is inexcusable, I believe that those Americans responsible for killing Iraqi prisoner(s) are currently being tried in court by the military.

Only God has the right to take an "innocent" life, and this Zarqawi is not only not God but probably too stupid to spell his own name.

For what it's worth...

 

[eric]

we brought this upon ourselves and we should realize this and not make this error again.

You personally tell this to the families who lost loved ones !

 

[nycflasher]

"Oh waaaah! I was just arrested for cutting the heads off 7 infidels and now some evil man is making me go in a naked pyramid with panties on my head and electrodes on my balls! Its a Human Rights abuse!!"

Go ahead and call me a fascist or Imperialist or warmongering neoconservative or whatever the HELL is the "in" phrase among you commies these days. I have ceased to care.

now i feel better.

Just to be clear, I don't believe that there was any evidence suggesting that any of the Abu prisoners that were tortured had any connection to the beheading of 7 "infidels."

Both are wrong and you know it.
But beheading a blindfolded man who is kneeling on the ground with his hands tied behind his back is definitely the highest form of evil. That will not get you into Heaven or invited to my Christmas party.

 

[eric]

"Oh waaaah! I was just arrested for cutting the heads off 7 infidels and now some evil man is making me go in a naked pyramid with panties on my head and electrodes on my balls! Its a Human Rights abuse!!"
Go ahead and call me a fascist or Imperialist or warmongering neoconservative or whatever the HELL is the "in" phrase among you commies these days. I have ceased to care.

Come on, don't be shy now, speak your mind !

 

[wade]

A) Some people just don't get it.

B) While the torture of prisoners(refering to incidents like Abu) is inexcusable, I believe that those Americans responsible for killing Iraqi prisoner(s) are currently being tried in court by the military.

Only God has the right to take an "innocent" life, and this Zarqawi is not only not God but probably too stupid to spell his own name.

For what it's worth...

NYC, quoting out of context is a rule violation on this board. I said:

I don't see how we can get outraged about the beheading of Coalition forces when we are electrocuting captive arab's genitals, handcuffing them in extremely uncomfortable positions for days at a time, covering them in shit, sodomizing them and forcing them to engage in acts of sodomy with each other (a mortal sin), and beating them to death, all while our people are looking on smiling and laughing and giving the big thumbs up.

 

[Zhukov]

Well, all this just obscures the point that to the Arab World it is the USA that has set the tone of brutality towards helpless captives. They didn't start these brutal beheadings presented on film until after the cat was out of the bag about Abu Gharib.

Wade.

Daniel Pearl

 

[wade]

"Oh waaaah! I was just arrested for cutting the heads off 7 infidels and now some evil man is making me go in a naked pyramid with panties on my head and electrodes on my balls! Its a Human Rights abuse!!"
Go ahead and call me a fascist or Imperialist or warmongering neoconservative or whatever the HELL is the "in" phrase among you commies these days. I have ceased to care.

Come on, don't be shy now, speak your mind !

You have the order of events backwards, and are ignoring the rape and the murders.

your rant should read:

"Oh waaah! They beat our people to death, raped our women, debased and sodomized our people, so I cut the head off an infidel - now they want to call me a butcher!"

Get the cause and effect right!

 

[eric]

Wade, you mis-read my post. Those were not my words, I was quoting someone else and throwing in a bit of humor, please re-read !

 

[wade]

Daniel Pearl

You are right - but I didn't see Arabs jumping up and down and cheering over that - did you?

I thought this argument was about the beheadings in Iraq. The Pearl tradgedy concerns issues involving the Taliban and Afghanistan/Pakistan.

Wade.

 

[eric]

Since none of us were privy to closed meetings that went on concerning policy in the prisons, one could say all is speculation. It just seems out of character for this to be a policy of the US. I can say from my families personal experience that during WWII when america invaded Germany, they were considered a God-send by much of the population. My family was treated with respect and dignity even though my father was in the Germany Army. In fact shortly after they came to this country and he started a company that did work for the US Navy. He worshipped this country till the day he died !!

Maybe we have drastically changed since then, but I don't see it !

 

[Zhukov]

You are right - but I didn't see Arabs jumping up and down and cheering over that - did you?

I thought this argument was about the beheadings in Iraq. The Pearl tradgedy concerns issues involving the Taliban and Afghanistan/Pakistan.

Wade.

My point is that islamic terrorists in particular were beheading people before abu ghraib, just like moslems in general have been beheading people for centuries.

Besides whether they happened in Iraq or Afghanistan is irrelevant, they could just as easily caputred people in Afghanistan and claimed their rationale was for the situation in Iraq. Of course, their publicized rationale is a farce. They are doing it to scare us, not because men were humiliated in a prison cell in Iraq.

Finally, the actions of the Taliban, al Qaeda, and the terrorists in Iraq are linked. It's the same problem.