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That's the point. That and the big ball of politics all the way down the line that not only facilitated it but enabled it.Due process is dead in that Florida courtroom. I said this earlier today. Say what you want about the actual incident. Who was wrong or who was right, to me is of little consequence when compared to the way this process has been handled. I was literally at the end of my rope when murder 3 w/child abuse was even introduced today. In reality GZ may be a liar and a monster (although I don't believe the evidence points towards that), but that doesn't overrule every American citizen's right to due process. Mobs can't be allowed to bring justice in this country, and that is what happened. Motivations for why are clear when you wipe the emotion from your eyes. If I were a black person, I don't know that I couldn't help but feel used by people profiting from anguish.
If this could happen to george zimmerman it could happen to anyone. What should have been at least was what it was at worst a self defense involuntary manslaughter trial that no one knew about. Not something of this magnitude where people lost careers and heads of state and the white house were involved. Its shocking and scary yet people are so hung up on the details and don't even see the threat of it.
For me what has gone on with the actual trial is the worst part. That could happen to any of us, black, white, whatever. The state has acted with great contempt towards a fair process. Delaying on evidence and attempting to add on charges simply because they may fit is so far beyond the realm of facing your accuser. These could touch all of our lives tomorrow, without all the guns, race and politics thrown in the mix. The way in which the state went about deposing the family of TM and Jeantel may hurt them more than GZ. Any person who has acted as an investigator or lawyer would tell you that is far from SOP. The judge telling the defendant he has a constitutional right to not speak to her, then barking over and over for a response. Black, white, Hispanic, this machine can come for you tomorrow despite what position you take in this case.
That's the point. That and the big ball of politics all the way down the line that not only facilitated it but enabled it.
If this could happen to george zimmerman it could happen to anyone. What should have been at least was what it was at worst a self defense involuntary manslaughter trial that no one knew about. Not something of this magnitude where people lost careers and heads of state and the white house were involved. Its shocking and scary yet people are so hung up on the details and don't even see the threat of it.
For me what has gone on with the actual trial is the worst part. That could happen to any of us, black, white, whatever. The state has acted with great contempt towards a fair process. Delaying on evidence and attempting to add on charges simply because they may fit is so far beyond the realm of facing your accuser. These could touch all of our lives tomorrow, without all the guns, race and politics thrown in the mix. The way in which the state went about deposing the family of TM and Jeantel may hurt them more than GZ. Any person who has acted as an investigator or lawyer would tell you that is far from SOP. The judge telling the defendant he has a constitutional right to not speak to her, then barking over and over for a response. Black, white, Hispanic, this machine can come for you tomorrow despite what position you take in this case.
There is a reason the judge had to ask Zimmerman if it was his decision not to testify and if there were any more witnesses he wanted called. Had he not made that commitment he could have said his lawyers didn't follow his wishes in an appeal where he could prevail, it was simply a preemptive move on the part of the judge. The first time she asked him was premature since the defense had not rested, but she was required to ask and get his answer.
For me what has gone on with the actual trial is the worst part. That could happen to any of us, black, white, whatever. The state has acted with great contempt towards a fair process. Delaying on evidence and attempting to add on charges simply because they may fit is so far beyond the realm of facing your accuser. These could touch all of our lives tomorrow, without all the guns, race and politics thrown in the mix. The way in which the state went about deposing the family of TM and Jeantel may hurt them more than GZ. Any person who has acted as an investigator or lawyer would tell you that is far from SOP. The judge telling the defendant he has a constitutional right to not speak to her, then barking over and over for a response. Black, white, Hispanic, this machine can come for you tomorrow despite what position you take in this case.
There is a reason the judge had to ask Zimmerman if it was his decision not to testify and if there were any more witnesses he wanted called. Had he not made that commitment he could have said his lawyers didn't follow his wishes in an appeal where he could prevail, it was simply a preemptive move on the part of the judge. The first time she asked him was premature since the defense had not rested, but she was required to ask and get his answer.
I understand that point, but badgering him after advising him of his right is wrong. He obviously didn't know what to say. He needed advice from counsel and wasn't being allowed to do so. That is over reaching her authority. She could have very easily waited until before a recess and told him what she was wanting to know and allowed him to confer with counsel before he answered. That is reasonable as hell! It takes five minutes to accomplish.
For me what has gone on with the actual trial is the worst part. That could happen to any of us, black, white, whatever. The state has acted with great contempt towards a fair process. Delaying on evidence and attempting to add on charges simply because they may fit is so far beyond the realm of facing your accuser. These could touch all of our lives tomorrow, without all the guns, race and politics thrown in the mix. The way in which the state went about deposing the family of TM and Jeantel may hurt them more than GZ. Any person who has acted as an investigator or lawyer would tell you that is far from SOP. The judge telling the defendant he has a constitutional right to not speak to her, then barking over and over for a response. Black, white, Hispanic, this machine can come for you tomorrow despite what position you take in this case.
There is a reason the judge had to ask Zimmerman if it was his decision not to testify and if there were any more witnesses he wanted called. Had he not made that commitment he could have said his lawyers didn't follow his wishes in an appeal where he could prevail, it was simply a preemptive move on the part of the judge. The first time she asked him was premature since the defense had not rested, but she was required to ask and get his answer.
I understand that point, but badgering him after advising him of his right is wrong. He obviously didn't know what to say. He needed advice from counsel and wasn't being allowed to do so. That is over reaching her authority. She could have very easily waited until before a recess and told him what she was wanting to know and allowed him to confer with counsel before he answered. That is reasonable as hell! It takes five minutes to accomplish. Even O'Mara said what is going on!
That's the point. That and the big ball of politics all the way down the line that not only facilitated it but enabled it.
If this could happen to george zimmerman it could happen to anyone. What should have been at least was what it was at worst a self defense involuntary manslaughter trial that no one knew about. Not something of this magnitude where people lost careers and heads of state and the white house were involved. Its shocking and scary yet people are so hung up on the details and don't even see the threat of it.
For me what has gone on with the actual trial is the worst part. That could happen to any of us, black, white, whatever. The state has acted with great contempt towards a fair process. Delaying on evidence and attempting to add on charges simply because they may fit is so far beyond the realm of facing your accuser. These could touch all of our lives tomorrow, without all the guns, race and politics thrown in the mix. The way in which the state went about deposing the family of TM and Jeantel may hurt them more than GZ. Any person who has acted as an investigator or lawyer would tell you that is far from SOP. The judge telling the defendant he has a constitutional right to not speak to her, then barking over and over for a response. Black, white, Hispanic, this machine can come for you tomorrow despite what position you take in this case.
There is a reason the judge had to ask Zimmerman if it was his decision not to testify and if there were any more witnesses he wanted called. Had he not made that commitment he could have said his lawyers didn't follow his wishes in an appeal where he could prevail, it was simply a preemptive move on the part of the judge. The first time she asked him was premature since the defense had not rested, but she was required to ask and get his answer.
There is a reason the judge had to ask Zimmerman if it was his decision not to testify and if there were any more witnesses he wanted called. Had he not made that commitment he could have said his lawyers didn't follow his wishes in an appeal where he could prevail, it was simply a preemptive move on the part of the judge. The first time she asked him was premature since the defense had not rested, but she was required to ask and get his answer.
I understand that point, but badgering him after advising him of his right is wrong. He obviously didn't know what to say. He needed advice from counsel and wasn't being allowed to do so. That is over reaching her authority. She could have very easily waited until before a recess and told him what she was wanting to know and allowed him to confer with counsel before he answered. That is reasonable as hell! It takes five minutes to accomplish. Even O'Mara said what is going on!
I will say this again and again, Debra Nelson has opened herself up widely to appeal. Her behavior may have swayed the case. Her conduct is unbecoming. Prime example of how NOT to run a courtroom.
Don't know where you've been the last year, many have expressed the same concerns you have, guess you were just a bit late to the party.
Who me?
I'm not late to the party. All I see on every other thread is who followed who. I see nothing about the actual issue. If I'm missing the thread about this can you direct me to where tje chat is about it?
For me what has gone on with the actual trial is the worst part. That could happen to any of us, black, white, whatever. The state has acted with great contempt towards a fair process. Delaying on evidence and attempting to add on charges simply because they may fit is so far beyond the realm of facing your accuser. These could touch all of our lives tomorrow, without all the guns, race and politics thrown in the mix. The way in which the state went about deposing the family of TM and Jeantel may hurt them more than GZ. Any person who has acted as an investigator or lawyer would tell you that is far from SOP. The judge telling the defendant he has a constitutional right to not speak to her, then barking over and over for a response. Black, white, Hispanic, this machine can come for you tomorrow despite what position you take in this case.
There is a reason the judge had to ask Zimmerman if it was his decision not to testify and if there were any more witnesses he wanted called. Had he not made that commitment he could have said his lawyers didn't follow his wishes in an appeal where he could prevail, it was simply a preemptive move on the part of the judge. The first time she asked him was premature since the defense had not rested, but she was required to ask and get his answer.
I understand that point, but badgering him after advising him of his right is wrong. He obviously didn't know what to say. He needed advice from counsel and wasn't being allowed to do so. That is over reaching her authority. She could have very easily waited until before a recess and told him what she was wanting to know and allowed him to confer with counsel before he answered. That is reasonable as hell! It takes five minutes to accomplish. Even O'Mara said what is going on!
Jeeez! I'm listening to fancy grapes for the first time ever. This woman is friggin insane!
It was obvious that this may was meant to discourage citizens from defending themselves and their community and to rely on the Almighty and Immaculate Police Force instead.
There is a reason the judge had to ask Zimmerman if it was his decision not to testify and if there were any more witnesses he wanted called. Had he not made that commitment he could have said his lawyers didn't follow his wishes in an appeal where he could prevail, it was simply a preemptive move on the part of the judge. The first time she asked him was premature since the defense had not rested, but she was required to ask and get his answer.
I understand that point, but badgering him after advising him of his right is wrong. He obviously didn't know what to say. He needed advice from counsel and wasn't being allowed to do so. That is over reaching her authority. She could have very easily waited until before a recess and told him what she was wanting to know and allowed him to confer with counsel before he answered. That is reasonable as hell! It takes five minutes to accomplish. Even O'Mara said what is going on!
No, she wanted him to know that he had a right to make this decision on his own and not be badgered by his attorneys into not testifying or to testify. It had to be HIS decision. Or he could come back after the trial and say he wanted to testify but his atttorneys wouldn't let him.
It was obvious that this may was meant to discourage citizens from defending themselves and their community and to rely on the Almighty and Immaculate Police Force instead.
As well it should be.
What the Zimmerman trial proved is that an armed citizenry is usually a bigger danger than the criminals itself, because most of you idiots don't have the good sense to know when the use of force is justified.
Zimmerman never would have gotten his fat ass out of the truck if he didn't have the gun.
It was obvious that this may was meant to discourage citizens from defending themselves and their community and to rely on the Almighty and Immaculate Police Force instead.
As well it should be.
What the Zimmerman trial proved is that an armed citizenry is usually a bigger danger than the criminals itself, because most of you idiots don't have the good sense to know when the use of force is justified.
Zimmerman never would have gotten his fat ass out of the truck if he didn't have the gun.
We are our own last line of defense and you are a liar. If you are being attacked you are not going to wait for the police to get there. ----Besides--you're a fucking troll.
As well it should be.
What the Zimmerman trial proved is that an armed citizenry is usually a bigger danger than the criminals itself, because most of you idiots don't have the good sense to know when the use of force is justified.
Zimmerman never would have gotten his fat ass out of the truck if he didn't have the gun.
We are our own last line of defense and you are a liar. If you are being attacked you are not going to wait for the police to get there. ----Besides--you're a fucking troll.
Guy, according to the FBI, there are only 200 cases a year where someone used a firearm in a "justifiable homicide". Most of those are domestic battery cases.
As opposed to
19,000 gun suicides.
11,000 gun homicides
1,000 gun accidental deaths
Every year.
So for every gun that was used to take out a bad guy, 160 guns took out good guys.
If Zimmerman wasn't allowed to have a gun, he'd have never gotten his fat ass out of the truck.
The cops would have arrived five minute later, and if they questioned Trayvon, they'd have found out he wasn't doing anything more menancing than buying candy.
[
The cops would have arrived five minute later, and if they questioned Trayvon, they'd have found out he wasn't doing anything more menancing than buying candy.
pure speculation---I knew someone would try to make this a gun control issue. Do you know what the cops bring with them when they come ? GUNS
It was obvious that this may was meant to discourage citizens from defending themselves and their community and to rely on the Almighty and Immaculate Police Force instead.
As well it should be.
What the Zimmerman trial proved is that an armed citizenry is usually a bigger danger than the criminals itself, because most of you idiots don't have the good sense to know when the use of force is justified.
Zimmerman never would have gotten his fat ass out of the truck if he didn't have the gun.
[
The cops would have arrived five minute later, and if they questioned Trayvon, they'd have found out he wasn't doing anything more menancing than buying candy.
pure speculation---I knew someone would try to make this a gun control issue. Do you know what the cops bring with them when they come ? GUNS
Of course, this is about guns for you guys.
This is about the mythology that guns make you safer. They don't.
In this case, the gun caused a tragedy. (there would not have been a "tragedy" if the little black boy had not felt he was superman and attacked Zimmerman.)
As for cops having guns. Yes. Cops have guns. After being screened, trained, etc. (that is a jike.., RIGHT ??)
And this was the thing. Zimmerman wanted to be a cop. Obviously, he was rejected for whatever reason. (that is a lie, in more polite terms.., pure speculation)
But he was able to get a gun anyway.
And proved exactly why he shouldn't have one.
[
The cops would have arrived five minute later, and if they questioned Trayvon, they'd have found out he wasn't doing anything more menancing than buying candy.
pure speculation---I knew someone would try to make this a gun control issue. Do you know what the cops bring with them when they come ? GUNS
Of course, this is about guns for you guys.
This is about the mythology that guns make you safer. They don't.
In this case, the gun caused a tragedy.
As for cops having guns. Yes. Cops have guns. After being screened, trained, etc.
And this was the thing. Zimmerman wanted to be a cop. Obviously, he was rejected for whatever reason.
But he was able to get a gun anyway.
And proved exactly why he shouldn't have one.
