100% of Economists Disagree with Trump

Not surprising, given that economists - regardless of political stripe - agree that free trade is good for Americans.

Donald Trump’s solution is to ... levy a 45% tax on Chinese imports. The idea is to make Chinese goods more expensive so that American producers who pay their workers more can gain a competitive edge.

There’s a painful side effect to this plan, however: It would, well, make a lot of products more expensive, and most of the price hikes would come straight out of consumer wallets. ... A 45% tariff on Chinese imports would encourage other low-cost exporters, such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and Mexico, to ship more goods to America. Whether U.S. producers would gain an edge is debatable. ...

Trump’s tariff plan would likely meet firm public resistance. Economists would also protest. “Economists disagree about a lot,” says Ozimek, “but there’s very strong agreement that free trade benefits Americans, on average.” A poll of economists by the University of Chicago, for instance, found that 100% of them believe U.S. trade with China makes most Americans better off.

Most economists also agree that free trade—like anything that improves efficiency and market performance—produces winners and losers. And the losers usually include people who get the job done slower, at a higher cost than competitors. Protecting underperformers isn’t likely to help the U.S. economy. Helping them perform better would.​

Donald Trump wants you to pay more for smartphones, TVs and a lot else

The whole idea of raising tariffs is to make American products competitive.
This isnt some unknown factor,we've just been on the shitty end of the stick.
If you're not willing to pay more for products made in the U.S you might as well give up on American manufacturing jobs because there wont be any.
 
I for one am willing to psy more for american made products. Problem is american businesses are not as they can have the product made for free overseas? Does anyone think they are going to bring jobs back?
 
I for one am willing to psy more for american made products. Problem is american businesses are not as they can have the product made for free overseas? Does anyone think they are going to bring jobs back?
Maybe if we stop punishing them lol. It will pop up new businesses. That much for sure
 
That's because of slave labor. Period.
Jobs are not an illusion. That is pretty absurd coming from a decently minded individual..
You sound like the chamber of commerce just freshly shit you out.
What's next? Amnesty or open borders?

"Jobs is an illusion" means that tariffs destroy more jobs than they create by misallocating capital in the economy from higher productivity businesses to lower productivity businesses. They are amongst the most wealth-destructive taxes one can have in an economy.

The jobs aren't slave labour. They are low paid labour. But that's how economic development works. Economies don't suddenly get rich over night (unless they discover oil). In economic development, you have to start with low-wage, low-skilled work because that's what your population is.
 
Good post. But no one could ever convince me us not having jobs is somehow good for us. Maybe you can?

Because the jobs argument is an illusion.

It costs about $2 to make a T-shirt in Vietnam. It costs about $12 (or more) to make the same T-shirt in America. Even if you got rid of all the government regulations crap, it would still cost many times more to make a T-shirt in America. That $10 difference is money out of your pocket that you could have spent elsewhere in the economy. So that's $10 towards an American job somewhere else that doesn't exist anymore because of the tariff.

Only 15% of America's economy is exports. 85% of America's economy is internally generated. Most of the money that is spent by you - that $10 - stays here. But if you put on a tariff, that $10 doesn't exist anymore, and you are poorer for it.

If you have $12 to spend on a T-shirt or $12 to spend on a T-shirt and $10 on something else, in which one are you better off?

Proof the far left does not understand economics on any level and thus proves that they should never be in charge of anything.

My example is lifted out of one of the best free market books ever, Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. You should read it. You'll understand capitalism better.
 
Not surprising, given that economists - regardless of political stripe - agree that free trade is good for Americans.

Donald Trump’s solution is to ... levy a 45% tax on Chinese imports. The idea is to make Chinese goods more expensive so that American producers who pay their workers more can gain a competitive edge.

There’s a painful side effect to this plan, however: It would, well, make a lot of products more expensive, and most of the price hikes would come straight out of consumer wallets. ... A 45% tariff on Chinese imports would encourage other low-cost exporters, such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and Mexico, to ship more goods to America. Whether U.S. producers would gain an edge is debatable. ...

Trump’s tariff plan would likely meet firm public resistance. Economists would also protest. “Economists disagree about a lot,” says Ozimek, “but there’s very strong agreement that free trade benefits Americans, on average.” A poll of economists by the University of Chicago, for instance, found that 100% of them believe U.S. trade with China makes most Americans better off.

Most economists also agree that free trade—like anything that improves efficiency and market performance—produces winners and losers. And the losers usually include people who get the job done slower, at a higher cost than competitors. Protecting underperformers isn’t likely to help the U.S. economy. Helping them perform better would.​

Donald Trump wants you to pay more for smartphones, TVs and a lot else

I am an economist and I agree with this.

I also agree that this is much more sensible than what Sanders is suggesting - socialism - the black plague of an economy.
 
Not surprising, given that economists - regardless of political stripe - agree that free trade is good for Americans.

Donald Trump’s solution is to ... levy a 45% tax on Chinese imports. The idea is to make Chinese goods more expensive so that American producers who pay their workers more can gain a competitive edge.

There’s a painful side effect to this plan, however: It would, well, make a lot of products more expensive, and most of the price hikes would come straight out of consumer wallets. ... A 45% tariff on Chinese imports would encourage other low-cost exporters, such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and Mexico, to ship more goods to America. Whether U.S. producers would gain an edge is debatable. ...

Trump’s tariff plan would likely meet firm public resistance. Economists would also protest. “Economists disagree about a lot,” says Ozimek, “but there’s very strong agreement that free trade benefits Americans, on average.” A poll of economists by the University of Chicago, for instance, found that 100% of them believe U.S. trade with China makes most Americans better off.

Most economists also agree that free trade—like anything that improves efficiency and market performance—produces winners and losers. And the losers usually include people who get the job done slower, at a higher cost than competitors. Protecting underperformers isn’t likely to help the U.S. economy. Helping them perform better would.​

Donald Trump wants you to pay more for smartphones, TVs and a lot else

Let us not overlook that China would then raise tariffs on many US products. This is called a trade war. trump operates in this weird bubble where we are the Galactic Empire telling Lando Calrissian, "prey I don't alter it further".

Sorry stumpf, the real world doesn't work like that.
 
Not surprising, given that economists - regardless of political stripe - agree that free trade is good for Americans.

Donald Trump’s solution is to ... levy a 45% tax on Chinese imports. The idea is to make Chinese goods more expensive so that American producers who pay their workers more can gain a competitive edge.

There’s a painful side effect to this plan, however: It would, well, make a lot of products more expensive, and most of the price hikes would come straight out of consumer wallets. ... A 45% tariff on Chinese imports would encourage other low-cost exporters, such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and Mexico, to ship more goods to America. Whether U.S. producers would gain an edge is debatable. ...

Trump’s tariff plan would likely meet firm public resistance. Economists would also protest. “Economists disagree about a lot,” says Ozimek, “but there’s very strong agreement that free trade benefits Americans, on average.” A poll of economists by the University of Chicago, for instance, found that 100% of them believe U.S. trade with China makes most Americans better off.

Most economists also agree that free trade—like anything that improves efficiency and market performance—produces winners and losers. And the losers usually include people who get the job done slower, at a higher cost than competitors. Protecting underperformers isn’t likely to help the U.S. economy. Helping them perform better would.​

Donald Trump wants you to pay more for smartphones, TVs and a lot else
The guy is like the Tazmanian Devil of contemporary political discourse.

He appears to think that the Chinese would just sit there and not react to huge tariffs. Yeah, they'll just sit there and take it.

Uh, that's the country that owns $1.2 TRILLION of our debt, sir, and could dump a shitload of it tomorrow, causing MAJOR economic havoc.

Gawd.

82869580_1376167595.gif
 
Not surprising, given that economists - regardless of political stripe - agree that free trade is good for Americans.

Donald Trump’s solution is to ... levy a 45% tax on Chinese imports. The idea is to make Chinese goods more expensive so that American producers who pay their workers more can gain a competitive edge.

There’s a painful side effect to this plan, however: It would, well, make a lot of products more expensive, and most of the price hikes would come straight out of consumer wallets. ... A 45% tariff on Chinese imports would encourage other low-cost exporters, such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and Mexico, to ship more goods to America. Whether U.S. producers would gain an edge is debatable. ...

Trump’s tariff plan would likely meet firm public resistance. Economists would also protest. “Economists disagree about a lot,” says Ozimek, “but there’s very strong agreement that free trade benefits Americans, on average.” A poll of economists by the University of Chicago, for instance, found that 100% of them believe U.S. trade with China makes most Americans better off.

Most economists also agree that free trade—like anything that improves efficiency and market performance—produces winners and losers. And the losers usually include people who get the job done slower, at a higher cost than competitors. Protecting underperformers isn’t likely to help the U.S. economy. Helping them perform better would.​

Donald Trump wants you to pay more for smartphones, TVs and a lot else
The guy is like the Tazmanian Devil of contemporary political discourse.

He appears to think that the Chinese would just sit there and not react to huge tariffs. Yeah, they'll just sit there and take it.

Uh, that's the country that owns $1.2 TRILLION of our debt, sir, and could dump a shitload of it tomorrow, causing MAJOR economic havoc.

Gawd.

82869580_1376167595.gif



We have an annual Trade Deficit with China running at over 300 billion and climbing.

There are two possibilities.

1. That this reflects Unfair Trade and needs to be stopped to protect American interests and jobs from unfair competition.

2. That this is actually Free Trade and represents the fact that America and American are lazy ass dumb bitches that can't compete. If that is true, then we need to avoid battles we can't win and stop trade with China to protect American Interests and jobs.

Also, their ownership of so much of our debt is as much of a problem for them, as it is for US. If we go down in flames they eat that.


I believe in scenario 1. They have been fucking US for years, and it is time to end it.

They have little leverage because the Trade is so lopsided. What are they going to do? Stop fucking US? That's sort of the point.
 
Not surprising, given that economists - regardless of political stripe - agree that free trade is good for Americans.

Donald Trump’s solution is to ... levy a 45% tax on Chinese imports. The idea is to make Chinese goods more expensive so that American producers who pay their workers more can gain a competitive edge.

There’s a painful side effect to this plan, however: It would, well, make a lot of products more expensive, and most of the price hikes would come straight out of consumer wallets. ... A 45% tariff on Chinese imports would encourage other low-cost exporters, such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and Mexico, to ship more goods to America. Whether U.S. producers would gain an edge is debatable. ...

Trump’s tariff plan would likely meet firm public resistance. Economists would also protest. “Economists disagree about a lot,” says Ozimek, “but there’s very strong agreement that free trade benefits Americans, on average.” A poll of economists by the University of Chicago, for instance, found that 100% of them believe U.S. trade with China makes most Americans better off.

Most economists also agree that free trade—like anything that improves efficiency and market performance—produces winners and losers. And the losers usually include people who get the job done slower, at a higher cost than competitors. Protecting underperformers isn’t likely to help the U.S. economy. Helping them perform better would.​

Donald Trump wants you to pay more for smartphones, TVs and a lot else
The guy is like the Tazmanian Devil of contemporary political discourse.

He appears to think that the Chinese would just sit there and not react to huge tariffs. Yeah, they'll just sit there and take it.

Uh, that's the country that owns $1.2 TRILLION of our debt, sir, and could dump a shitload of it tomorrow, causing MAJOR economic havoc.

Gawd.

82869580_1376167595.gif



We have an annual Trade Deficit with China running at over 300 billion and climbing.

There are two possibilities.

1. That this reflects Unfair Trade and needs to be stopped to protect American interests and jobs from unfair competition.

2. That this is actually Free Trade and represents the fact that America and American are lazy ass dumb bitches that can't compete. If that is true, then we need to avoid battles we can't win and stop trade with China to protect American Interests and jobs.

Also, their ownership of so much of our debt is as much of a problem for them, as it is for US. If we go down in flames they eat that.


I believe in scenario 1. They have been fucking US for years, and it is time to end it.

They have little leverage because the Trade is so lopsided. What are they going to do? Stop fucking US? That's sort of the point.
This is an extremely complicated issue. Between them, China & Russia hold +/- $3 trillion in our bonds, and they are going to protect themselves. Always.

Here's my point regarding this thread: Either Trump knows better and he's grandstanding at a level I've never seen, or he DOESN'T know better and that's even worse.
.
 
The whole idea of raising tariffs is to make American products competitive.

It makes the economy less competitive, not more competitive.

It takes taxes away from more productive areas of the economy and gives taxes to less productive areas of the economy. Companies which cannot compete should be allowed to go bankrupt. Tariffs do not allow this to happen.

It staggers me that people who think they are "conservatives" support this. Tariffs are the government taking money from you and the government choosing winners and losers in the economy. This is a big reason why conservatives have always supported lowering tariffs - they don't believe that the government should be using tax money to support business.

Conservatives got all bent out of shape over bailing out the banks because the government used tax money to bail out a failing industry, but imposing tariffs is the exact same thing - it uses tax money to bail out failing industries.
 
We have an annual Trade Deficit with China running at over 300 billion and climbing.

There are two possibilities.

There are more possibilities than that.

One of the biggest reasons why we have a trade deficit is because America is a great place to invest. People want to be here.

If foreigners invest more in America than Americans invest abroad, that by definition MUST create a trade deficit. It also creates a capital surplus. If a British person invests in the US, he uses pounds to invest in the United States. The American now has British pounds, which are worthless to him in the United States. The only thing pounds are good for to an American is to buy British stuff. The American then buys British stuff and we have a trade deficit with the UK. The US has a trade deficit and a capital surplus, and the British have a trade surplus and a capital deficit. Capital leaves the UK and comes to the US, and stuff from the UK comes back to the US as the pounds invested in the US go back to the UK in another manner. That's how international trade and capital flows work.

People talk about a trade deficit like it is isolation, but that is false. Because we have a trade deficit, we also have a capital surplus. America runs a capital surplus.

Trump may have had a point about China keeping its currency too low several years ago, but not today. China's currency should be weaker, not stronger. China is in trouble, and it is a big reason why our stock markets have been selling off lately.
 
The whole idea of raising tariffs is to make American products competitive.

It makes the economy less competitive, not more competitive.

It takes taxes away from more productive areas of the economy and gives taxes to less productive areas of the economy. Companies which cannot compete should be allowed to go bankrupt. Tariffs do not allow this to happen.

It staggers me that people who think they are "conservatives" support this. Tariffs are the government taking money from you and the government choosing winners and losers in the economy. This is a big reason why conservatives have always supported lowering tariffs - they don't believe that the government should be using tax money to support business.

Conservatives got all bent out of shape over bailing out the banks because the government used tax money to bail out a failing industry, but imposing tariffs is the exact same thing - it uses tax money to bail out failing industries.
I don't support tariffs, but I don't believe Trump will actually impose any. He's just using the threat as a negotiating tactic. Trump cannot impose any tariffs without the approval of Congress. That's the bottom line.
 
I don't support tariffs, but I don't believe Trump will actually impose any. He's just using the threat as a negotiating tactic. Trump cannot impose any tariffs without the approval of Congress. That's the bottom line.
That's my guess too, surely he knows better. What he's saying simply is not going to happen. But he keeps saying stuff like this to fire up his supporters that just isn't reasonable, so there is just no way of knowing what he would do in office.
.
 
I don't support tariffs, but I don't believe Trump will actually impose any. He's just using the threat as a negotiating tactic. Trump cannot impose any tariffs without the approval of Congress. That's the bottom line.
That's my guess too, surely he knows better. What he's saying simply is not going to happen. But he keeps saying stuff like this to fire up his supporters that just isn't reasonable, so there is just no way of knowing what he would do in office.
.

As I said, he can't raise any tariffs without the approval of Congress. If he does raise any, it will probably be on the 5% - 10% range, or it will be on selected items. The danger doesn't seem that great.
 
Not surprising, given that economists - regardless of political stripe - agree that free trade is good for Americans.

Donald Trump’s solution is to ... levy a 45% tax on Chinese imports. The idea is to make Chinese goods more expensive so that American producers who pay their workers more can gain a competitive edge.

There’s a painful side effect to this plan, however: It would, well, make a lot of products more expensive, and most of the price hikes would come straight out of consumer wallets. ... A 45% tariff on Chinese imports would encourage other low-cost exporters, such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and Mexico, to ship more goods to America. Whether U.S. producers would gain an edge is debatable. ...

Trump’s tariff plan would likely meet firm public resistance. Economists would also protest. “Economists disagree about a lot,” says Ozimek, “but there’s very strong agreement that free trade benefits Americans, on average.” A poll of economists by the University of Chicago, for instance, found that 100% of them believe U.S. trade with China makes most Americans better off.

Most economists also agree that free trade—like anything that improves efficiency and market performance—produces winners and losers. And the losers usually include people who get the job done slower, at a higher cost than competitors. Protecting underperformers isn’t likely to help the U.S. economy. Helping them perform better would.​

Donald Trump wants you to pay more for smartphones, TVs and a lot else
The guy is like the Tazmanian Devil of contemporary political discourse.

He appears to think that the Chinese would just sit there and not react to huge tariffs. Yeah, they'll just sit there and take it.

Uh, that's the country that owns $1.2 TRILLION of our debt, sir, and could dump a shitload of it tomorrow, causing MAJOR economic havoc.

Gawd.

82869580_1376167595.gif



We have an annual Trade Deficit with China running at over 300 billion and climbing.

There are two possibilities.

1. That this reflects Unfair Trade and needs to be stopped to protect American interests and jobs from unfair competition.

2. That this is actually Free Trade and represents the fact that America and American are lazy ass dumb bitches that can't compete. If that is true, then we need to avoid battles we can't win and stop trade with China to protect American Interests and jobs.

Also, their ownership of so much of our debt is as much of a problem for them, as it is for US. If we go down in flames they eat that.


I believe in scenario 1. They have been fucking US for years, and it is time to end it.

They have little leverage because the Trade is so lopsided. What are they going to do? Stop fucking US? That's sort of the point.
This is an extremely complicated issue. Between them, China & Russia hold +/- $3 trillion in our bonds, and they are going to protect themselves. Always.

Here's my point regarding this thread: Either Trump knows better and he's grandstanding at a level I've never seen, or he DOESN'T know better and that's even worse.
.

$3 trillion? Hardly. Russia holds about $82 billion. China, less than $1.5 trillion.

http://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt
 
The whole idea of raising tariffs is to make American products competitive.

It makes the economy less competitive, not more competitive.

It takes taxes away from more productive areas of the economy and gives taxes to less productive areas of the economy. Companies which cannot compete should be allowed to go bankrupt. Tariffs do not allow this to happen.

It staggers me that people who think they are "conservatives" support this. Tariffs are the government taking money from you and the government choosing winners and losers in the economy. This is a big reason why conservatives have always supported lowering tariffs - they don't believe that the government should be using tax money to support business.

Conservatives got all bent out of shape over bailing out the banks because the government used tax money to bail out a failing industry, but imposing tariffs is the exact same thing - it uses tax money to bail out failing industries.

If you want to bring jobs back to America you're going to have to pay more for products.
 
The whole idea of raising tariffs is to make American products competitive.

It makes the economy less competitive, not more competitive.

It takes taxes away from more productive areas of the economy and gives taxes to less productive areas of the economy. Companies which cannot compete should be allowed to go bankrupt. Tariffs do not allow this to happen.

It staggers me that people who think they are "conservatives" support this. Tariffs are the government taking money from you and the government choosing winners and losers in the economy. This is a big reason why conservatives have always supported lowering tariffs - they don't believe that the government should be using tax money to support business.

Conservatives got all bent out of shape over bailing out the banks because the government used tax money to bail out a failing industry, but imposing tariffs is the exact same thing - it uses tax money to bail out failing industries.

If you want to bring jobs back to America you're going to have to pay more for products.

WE don't need to bring any jobs back. We just need to keep giving them to cheap imported foreign workers.
 
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I am always a bit leery of any claim that 100% of a group of people agree with something. There is always a closeted anti-social asshole who is muttering under his breath "This is total bullshit".

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