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Free market health insurance was destroyed long ago. The reason costs are so high is precisely for this reason. Obamacare is simply the next step. Insurance companies risk losing customers because of regulations making insurance too expensive, so they lobbied government to pass an individual mandate to force people to patronize them. This will only make matters worse and grant these companies more leeway to keep costs high.
If Obamacare was bad for these companies, they wouldn't have lobbied in favor of it. Obamacare is just another big government corporatist monstrosity. There is a difference between corporations competing for consumers on the free market and corporations competing for government handouts and benefits like we have so many of today.
...I still think even with flaws and all it's a hell of a lot better of a step in the right direction than where we were going.
I'm glad we can find agreement. But what shocks me is that you can still say it is a step in the right direction. Before Obamacare we were heading toward less free market care and more corporate-government union and corruption. With Obamacare that same union and corruption is made even stronger. I don't even see a change in direction, only a change in pace.Free market health insurance was destroyed long ago. The reason costs are so high is precisely for this reason. Obamacare is simply the next step. Insurance companies risk losing customers because of regulations making insurance too expensive, so they lobbied government to pass an individual mandate to force people to patronize them. This will only make matters worse and grant these companies more leeway to keep costs high.
If Obamacare was bad for these companies, they wouldn't have lobbied in favor of it. Obamacare is just another big government corporatist monstrosity. There is a difference between corporations competing for consumers on the free market and corporations competing for government handouts and benefits like we have so many of today.
We definitely agree in principal on how it won't hurt insurance companies at all. And we do agree on a lot of your points about the REAL weaknesses of the ACA. I still think even with flaws and all it's a hell of a lot better of a step in the right direction than where we were going.
Were you liberals really expecting this to result in giving government complete access to all your bank account and financial activity? Really?
Were you liberals really expecting this to result in giving government complete access to all your bank account and financial activity? Really?
Some bullshit claims never die. Feels like it's 2009 all over again!
The one drawback of a democracy or repbublic is trying to draft a perfect law. It can't be done because both political sides have to be satisfied, one more than the other. The end results are a so-so bill. But in time the law will be smoothed out and in a hundred years or so and we might have a good health care law. But we have to remember that Social Security is still under fire by the Republicans, and they still mumble of privatization. At least 100 years.
20 ways obamacare will take away freedoms. My 20 very real losses of freedoms more than outweighs the 11 liberals think is a fair price for their freedoms. I value mine a hell of a lot more. Were you liberals really expecting this to result in giving government complete access to all your bank account and financial activity? Really?
Do you liberals truly not understand none of this is about "love, care, touchy-feely" bullshit but the power hungry bribing you to voluntarily forfeit your rights and freedoms and the power that comes with them- and hand it over to government instead? Be prepared for the next shiny bauble to be dangled promised to you for "free" in exchange for more of your rights. Are you so atupid as to not realize you are paying for it no matter what, but because government inserts itself as middleman, it means you will pay far more for it- along with your rights? These are rights and freedoms that once handed over to government will never be peacefully regained. The insertion of government only guarantees a massive layer of waste and fraud that did not exist prior - and we get stuck with that bill too.
20 ways obamacare will take away our freedoms : Fire andrea mitchell!
This. I agree with everything in here. That's why I think it's still a step in the right direction. Of course tweaks will need to be made, but it's something to START FROM. Which is better than what we've had before.
This. I agree with everything in here. That's why I think it's still a step in the right direction. Of course tweaks will need to be made, but it's something to START FROM. Which is better than what we've had before.
Again, what direction is that? How is a lifetime of mandated indebtedness to the insurance corps, the very same sonsabitches who create this mess in the first place, a step in the right direction? How is corporate/government collusion to control something as personal and fundamental as our health care something to 'start from'??
This. I agree with everything in here. That's why I think it's still a step in the right direction. Of course tweaks will need to be made, but it's something to START FROM. Which is better than what we've had before.
Again, what direction is that? How is a lifetime of mandated indebtedness to the insurance corps, the very same sonsabitches who create this mess in the first place, a step in the right direction? How is corporate/government collusion to control something as personal and fundamental as our health care something to 'start from'??
The step towards a real public option. That's the step in the right direction. Look, the fact that they're actually going to force the insurance companies to spend at minimum 85% of their premiums on medical care alone is a big step forward. I got a letter from my insurance provider this week proudly proclaiming they EXCEEDED the mark set by the ACA. That makes me feel good. It makes me feel like my money isn't being wasted on CEO bonuses; that's it's actually being used on medicine and diagnostic testing.
Again, no piece of legislation is perfect, and they all need tweaking. But to say that the ACA isn't a step forward is bogus. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many popular components. The mandate was the only truly hotly contested piece of it among the general public. And there's so much misinformation out there about it. For instance, the fact that only about 3% of the people in the country will ever even see a tax from it unless they choose not to be insured. Everyone is SO SURE WE'RE ALL GOING TO TAXED OUT THE ASSHOLE, but it's just not true.
What's going to happen, honestly, is that this bill is going to stick. Republicans are going to push repeal, of course, but as more and more of the "perks" of the bill get acclimated to by the public, the harder it'll be to replace it. Ultimately, we will see Universal Health Care as an option and an add-on to this bill.
And all the hand-wringing, all the outright lies by the Right Wing on this issue will be exposed. The dude who brought up Social Security still being hounded by Republicans almost 100 years later is right; it'll never be embraced by Conservatives. And that's fine. They'll still use and benefit from it. And that will make all us Liberals very, very smugly pleased.
Do you have insurance, Corky?Are you talking about obamatax?
Do you have insurance, Corky?Are you talking about obamatax?
Again, what direction is that? How is a lifetime of mandated indebtedness to the insurance corps, the very same sonsabitches who create this mess in the first place, a step in the right direction? How is corporate/government collusion to control something as personal and fundamental as our health care something to 'start from'??
The step towards a real public option. That's the step in the right direction. Look, the fact that they're actually going to force the insurance companies to spend at minimum 85% of their premiums on medical care alone is a big step forward. I got a letter from my insurance provider this week proudly proclaiming they EXCEEDED the mark set by the ACA. That makes me feel good. It makes me feel like my money isn't being wasted on CEO bonuses; that's it's actually being used on medicine and diagnostic testing.
Again, no piece of legislation is perfect, and they all need tweaking. But to say that the ACA isn't a step forward is bogus. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many popular components. The mandate was the only truly hotly contested piece of it among the general public. And there's so much misinformation out there about it. For instance, the fact that only about 3% of the people in the country will ever even see a tax from it unless they choose not to be insured. Everyone is SO SURE WE'RE ALL GOING TO TAXED OUT THE ASSHOLE, but it's just not true.
What's going to happen, honestly, is that this bill is going to stick. Republicans are going to push repeal, of course, but as more and more of the "perks" of the bill get acclimated to by the public, the harder it'll be to replace it. Ultimately, we will see Universal Health Care as an option and an add-on to this bill.
And all the hand-wringing, all the outright lies by the Right Wing on this issue will be exposed. The dude who brought up Social Security still being hounded by Republicans almost 100 years later is right; it'll never be embraced by Conservatives. And that's fine. They'll still use and benefit from it. And that will make all us Liberals very, very smugly pleased.
You still haven't told me who's going to pay for the huge increase in Medicaid spending that the States are going to be responsible for, Conserva. You know...the one that ObamaCare pays most of for the first year and then less the next and even less the next until suddenly it's the States that will have to pay for it all? That's how drug dealers hook their clients. It's the same theory with this...we give them a "taste" for free and then when we get them hooked we make them pay more and more. Tell me that those Medicaid costs won't be getting paid for with increased taxes on the Middle Class. I want to hear you say it NOW so I can remind you about what you said LATER.
That's my point, exactly, Derp.
You just don't fucking get it that it's not my government's place to determine if I need/want health coverage.
No, you don't seem to get it. It's our government's responsibility to make sure that you, as a free loader, not buying insurance and therefore driving up the cost of insurance on EVERYONE when you end up having to go the ER for something that if you'd insurance and gone to see a doctor much sooner would have been treatable and much less expense.
You're the one fucking EVERYONE else over by thinking you're either a) invincible and will live forever and will therefore never need to see a doctor b) above having to work within the system or c) are just an ignorant asshole who equates the ACA with Socialism and even Socialized Medicine, which it really isn't at the end of the day.
That's what you don't seem to get.
We purchase health insurance to maintain our bodies, just as we buy warranties to maintain our vehicles.
Its not really conceivable to me that an auto-shop would be faced with the possibility of choosing to either fix a car without being sure whether or not the owner has insurance or a warranty that covers the repair - or allowing someone to die. On the other hand, emergency rooms are faced with this choice all the time.If a person doesn't want or need either of these things it should be their choice if they want the car or their body to break down.
You still haven't told me who's going to pay for the huge increase in Medicaid spending that the States are going to be responsible for, Conserva. You know...the one that ObamaCare pays most of for the first year and then less the next and even less the next until suddenly it's the States that will have to pay for it all?
... the Federal medical assistance percentage for a State that is one of the 50 States or the District of Columbia, with respect to amounts expended by such State for medical assistance for newly eligible individuals ... shall be equal to
(A) 100 percent for calendar quarters in 2014, 2015, and 2016;
(B) 95 percent for calendar quarters in 2017;
(C) 94 percent for calendar quarters in 2018;
(D) 93 percent for calendar quarters in 2019; and
(E) 90 percent for calendar quarters in 2020 and each year thereafter.
LOL, so in 10 years the plan will be a success! LOL, why wouldn't it be right away.1. By 2022, the Congressional Budget Office estimates (pdf) the Affordable Care Act will have extended coverage to 33 million Americans who would otherwise be uninsured.
Any government program which does not realize its full benefit within 60 seconds of its passage is just wasteful and stupid.
Like you.
