12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[MisterBeale]

Okay, so you agree, it isn't completely beyond the scope of imagination that the Dems would give Trump his well in exchange for sending a modified ERA & 2nd Amendment to the states?

You might think that is "fucked," but in the minds of some, this would be an ultimate victory. . . as they would just halt construction once they get into office, as of course, you can't really repeal those Amendments once they are there. . .

The only thing beyond the scope of imagination is that this nation will continue to exist as a free nation...

One could even question whether we are free right now.

Do you know I even have arguments with friends on-line that try to convince me that we should give up our fundamental natural rights? Who could have brainwashed them into thinking this is a good idea?

It is our fundamental natural right to possess guns that are designed solely to kill? Where do you get that from? How does that become a fundamental natural right? The 2nd amendment, maybe? A unique document that prefaces that statement about the right to bear arms by saying that it is necessary to a well ordered militia. We have a standing army. A militia is no longer necessary.

Is a club designed solely to kill? Is a bow and arrow designed solely to kill? How about a sword, a spear, etc.?

Most folks would say these are designed to either hunt, or defend oneself.

I detect political rhetoric. In evolution, we are tool using creatures. Study your anthropology on what differentiates us from most other species and what is our dependent evolutionary claim, tool use, and fire. One of the tools we have designed since the beginning is the tool for defense and hunting, yes. It is true. This is called a natural right. If you were abandoned on an island, in the wilderness, you would need something to hunt with, or you would, more than likely, die. It is your birth right, and your evolutionary inheritance. For some artificial human construct to try to revoke that natural right from you is basically a crime against nature. It is like clipping the wings of a bird.

You have the right to own the most lethal weapon of those you give sovereignty over you, in case they abuse that sovereignty. This is axiomatic.

You have the right to own the most lethal weapon of those you give sovereignty over you, in case they abuse that sovereignty. This is axiomatic.
Sez WHO? The Second Amendment? How do you get off saying I am brainwashed and watch too much tv when you think this is some sort of reasonable argument? Mr. Beale, you're being downright silly now. None of us has a quarter of what the military has right now. The only way to win a war against a government gone wild is to befriend another country with a big military to side with us.
Only way. AR's in your closet won't cut it.
I'm not saying that again. I've already said it too many times and it's not sinking in.

It is not sinking in, because you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

The person that was commissioned by the global Anglo-American establishment to write the authorized world history has even told you the truth.

Any military commander or leader worth their salt will tell you about force equilibrium and the advantage of defenders vs attackers.

Have you ever even played a single military simulation in your entire life? Do you have even a novice's authority to write on such things?

I could recommend a few good ones, or you could go to the gaming sub-forum of this community to read about them. They would enlighten you. Most military veterans know the truth.

The amount of deer hunters in the US far outnumbers the largest army in the world, I don't know where you are getting your numbers, I really don't.

Of course IED's and AR's in your closet will cut as long as your are dug in and have a social network with underground tunnels.

Don't be daft.


Why on earth do you think we are getting so much propaganda on a monthly, weekly, daily basis?

Why do you think they did it to Australia?

They can't do the final collapse of the world economy until everyone is disarmed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

They shoulda armed themselves.

Poor soul.....I grew up in country with 0 guns...guess what? 0 mass shootings or any shootings for that matter....u became numb to these killings I see.

Mass killings account for 1% of all murders

So tell me why is it worse to be killed by a gun than a knife or any other of a thousand ways?

For you people dying is just a number.

And for you people getting murdered with a gun is worse than getting murdered in a thousand other ways

 

[2aguy]

All you've actually added to the conversation here is that you do not innately believe that my life, nor anyone else's, is worthy of being defended using a constitutional right that's existed for over a hundred years longer than your /personal/ opinion on guns.

Due to that "Constitutional right", and the resulting easy, damn near uncontrollable, availability of guns, you can defend yourself, gun in hand, against would-be murderers and rapists. I trust, you haven't done so, not even once.

Due to that "Constitutional right", and the resulting easy, damn near uncontrollable, availability of guns, two dozen kids at Sandy Hook are dead, torn to shreds by gun fire, along with the lives of their parents and siblings.

This Amendment, written for a country in which law enforcement, government protection of life and property, was more a hope than a reality, is patently dysfunctional, and should not govern a country trying to get into the 21 century. In fact, it results in less protection, and more ending up dead, than would experience a country in which guns were rare, and strictly controlled. In this century, no one should own a gun, unless they can demonstrate a pressing need for it that cannot otherwise be met.

So, do please spare us your whine about how we don't value your life, when, in reality, we just don't value your life over and above the lives of those murdered at Sandy Hook. There is not a single hint of a reason why we should.

Due to that Constitutional Right, according to the Centers for Disease Control, the American people do use their legal guns 1,100,000 times a year, on average, to actually stop rapes, robberies and murders, including attacks like the one at Sandy Hook...which took place in a gun free zone where law abiding people are not permitted to have their guns to stop those attacks.....

According to the Pew Research Center, Americans owning and carrying guns did not increase any gun crime or violent crime as more guns were owned and carried, over a 25 year period....

So.....besides you emotion based rant....what else do you have?

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

All you've actually added to the conversation here is that you do not innately believe that my life, nor anyone else's, is worthy of being defended using a constitutional right that's existed for over a hundred years longer than your /personal/ opinion on guns.

Due to that "Constitutional right", and the resulting easy, damn near uncontrollable, availability of guns, you can defend yourself, gun in hand, against would-be murderers and rapists. I trust, you haven't done so, not even once.

Due to that "Constitutional right", and the resulting easy, damn near uncontrollable, availability of guns, two dozen kids at Sandy Hook are dead, torn to shreds by gun fire, along with the lives of their parents and siblings.

This Amendment, written for a country in which law enforcement, government protection of life and property, was more a hope than a reality, is patently dysfunctional, and should not govern a country trying to get into the 21 century. In fact, it results in less protection, and more ending up dead, than would experience a country in which guns were rare, and strictly controlled. In this century, no one should own a gun, unless they can demonstrate a pressing need for it that cannot otherwise be met.

So, do please spare us your whine about how we don't value your life, when, in reality, we just don't value your life over and above the lives of those murdered at Sandy Hook. There is not a single hint of a reason why we should.

And in Europe...where they took guns away from their people....their governments sent 12 million unarmed, innocent men, women and children to German Socialist death camps...

Is it that you don't like murder done by civilian criminals, and simply prefer government mass murder?

 

[Olde Europe]

That called for more than a thank you.

As far as I've seen, you've done the yeoman's work rebutting the NRA-sponsored bullshit on here, so the praise goes to you. I don't know how you stomach all that egotistical, mendacious nonsense.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes... you have to focus like a laser on the murder rate, since the gun control laws in Britain do not decrease gun crime there

Gun crime in the UK is a fraction of that in the US. Remove the mote from you own eye.

Gun crime was always low before they banned guns...that is the issue, since now, after they banned guns...on an island....their gun crime rate is going up..that is the important point you don't want to confront....

That's the fun thing about reporting on another country that you know nothing about but their crime stats. Do you think there could be some other factors at work besides gun control?

Which is what I have been saying all along but you still think our murder rate will be lowered with gun control even though there are some striking socioeconomic, cultural. political and psychological differences between the US and the UK

 

[2aguy]

Naw, I just could see them taking a very moderated view, much like OldLady. A sort of, it's not a right, it's a privilege that needs to be regulated now. . . .


I watch the conversations on this site, I see what is going on. I can follow that mood of the nation. The elites are playing all these fools like a fiddle. They are smarter than all of you. They know what they are doing.



Did you know that the Supreme Court ruled that once a person has entered into the U.S. they are protected by the U.S. Constitution? That means 11 million illegal immigrants have the right to bear arms.

Did you know that?

Clearly you haven't seen my prior posts on how the nation is fucked... Such examples are just one of the many that it will fail.

Okay, so you agree, it isn't completely beyond the scope of imagination that the Dems would give Trump his well in exchange for sending a modified ERA & 2nd Amendment to the states?

You might think that is "fucked," but in the minds of some, this would be an ultimate victory. . . as they would just halt construction once they get into office, as of course, you can't really repeal those Amendments once they are there. . .

The only thing beyond the scope of imagination is that this nation will continue to exist as a free nation...

One could even question whether we are free right now.

Do you know I even have arguments with friends on-line that try to convince me that we should give up our fundamental natural rights? Who could have brainwashed them into thinking this is a good idea?

It is our fundamental natural right to possess guns that are designed solely to kill? Where do you get that from? How does that become a fundamental natural right? The 2nd amendment, maybe? A unique document that prefaces that statement about the right to bear arms by saying that it is necessary to a well ordered militia. We have a standing army. A militia is no longer necessary.

Guns are not designed to kill, they are designed to keep the owner alive ...wether through bringing down game or killing an attacker.

Americans use those guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives, not take them.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the pillhead didn't have a gun, how many people would he have shot?

He could have killed just as many or more by one of any number of means but you only care that he killed people with a gun

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the pillhead didn't have a gun, how many people would he have shot?

He could have used a truck and killed even more people.....the muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental Truck and murdered 86 people, not 12, and injured 450, not 18, in 5 minutes of driving.......

It isn't the tool...it is the target.

Yet another deflection. What a surprise. How many would he have "shot"?

You obviously don't care about how they die, since all you care about are getting rid of guns....do you understand that if there had been civilians there with their own legal guns, fewer people would have been killed....how do we know this..? Because from past mass public shootings with armed civilians on site have lower death numbers...

Also...do you realize there were 6 off duty police officers in that bar at the time of the Attack? All they could do was help people escape since they were not allowed to carry their guns with them into the bar when they were off duty.....that is another reason so many died...

The gun free zone status allowed more people to be killed...

Deflecting still. Yes, there are lots of ways to meet your maker.

You make erroneous assumptions. I have three long guns, including a tube-fed .22 semi-automatic. I favor banning concealed weapons, handguns, and high-powered rifles with high-capacity magazines. That covers most of the mass murders, and leaves me with what I need.

It's all about you huh?

 

[2aguy]

Mental illness is the main cause of most of these mass shootings. As a nation we have failed to address mental illness in a satisfactory or practical mode. What the liberals should attempt is to try and stop allowing mentally ill people to legally acquire weapons....that is doable and something that should be done.

Beyond that mental illness is very common today a and getting even more common. What can be done to help the mentally ill?

Yeah but where is the line drawn? I think its mental illness when you drive a car into a crowd of people because they dont share your beliefs about a statue. Where does mental illness start and radical opinions end?

When you support bernie sanders and left wing causes so much you take a rifle to a Republican baseball game and try to kill them.....or you believe the propaganda of black lives matter so much you murder 6 dallas police officers, and others with the same black lives matter sympathies murder several more police officers.....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Two things for sure:
1) after Sandy Hook where little children were cut to pieces by gun fire, this country will do NOTHING about gun violence
2) crazy gun nuts will sell fear of having their phallic symbols taken away and cry "false flag"

Yeah we still make it easy for people with guns to just walk into a school and start shooting

 

[OldLady]

The only thing beyond the scope of imagination is that this nation will continue to exist as a free nation...

One could even question whether we are free right now.

Do you know I even have arguments with friends on-line that try to convince me that we should give up our fundamental natural rights? Who could have brainwashed them into thinking this is a good idea?

It is our fundamental natural right to possess guns that are designed solely to kill? Where do you get that from? How does that become a fundamental natural right? The 2nd amendment, maybe? A unique document that prefaces that statement about the right to bear arms by saying that it is necessary to a well ordered militia. We have a standing army. A militia is no longer necessary.

Is a club designed solely to kill? Is a bow and arrow designed solely to kill? How about a sword, a spear, etc.?

Most folks would say these are designed to either hunt, or defend oneself.

I detect political rhetoric. In evolution, we are tool using creatures. Study your anthropology on what differentiates us from most other species and what is our dependent evolutionary claim, tool use, and fire. One of the tools we have designed since the beginning is the tool for defense and hunting, yes. It is true. This is called a natural right. If you were abandoned on an island, in the wilderness, you would need something to hunt with, or you would, more than likely, die. It is your birth right, and your evolutionary inheritance. For some artificial human construct to try to revoke that natural right from you is basically a crime against nature. It is like clipping the wings of a bird.

You have the right to own the most lethal weapon of those you give sovereignty over you, in case they abuse that sovereignty. This is axiomatic.

You have the right to own the most lethal weapon of those you give sovereignty over you, in case they abuse that sovereignty. This is axiomatic.
Sez WHO? The Second Amendment? How do you get off saying I am brainwashed and watch too much tv when you think this is some sort of reasonable argument? Mr. Beale, you're being downright silly now. None of us has a quarter of what the military has right now. The only way to win a war against a government gone wild is to befriend another country with a big military to side with us.
Only way. AR's in your closet won't cut it.
I'm not saying that again. I've already said it too many times and it's not sinking in.

It is not sinking in, because you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

The person that was commissioned by the global Anglo-American establishment to write the authorized world history has even told you the truth.

Any military commander or leader worth their salt will tell you about force equilibrium and the advantage of defenders vs attackers.

Have you ever even played a single military simulation in your entire life? Do you have even a novice's authority to write on such things?

I could recommend a few good ones, or you could go to the gaming sub-forum of this community to read about them. They would enlighten you. Most military veterans know the truth.

The amount of deer hunters in the US far outnumbers the largest army in the world, I don't know where you are getting your numbers, I really don't.

Of course IED's and AR's in your closet will cut as long as your are dug in and have a social network with underground tunnels.

Don't be daft.


Why on earth do you think we are getting so much propaganda on a monthly, weekly, daily basis?

Why do you think they did it to Australia?

They can't do the final collapse of the world economy until everyone is disarmed.

Mr. Beale, I believe you're laboring under a misconception, a big one. I can't disabuse you of that notion, but I sure ain't goin there with you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, it's fucking crazy. Tell me which mass murder was a psyop to advance gun control.

Do you own research. Check "Sandy Hook" & "Infowars". So there!

It proves there's no Sanity Clause.

It really isn't funny at all.

From research demonstrating that anyone owning a gun is far more likely to be killed by that gun than using it to defend themselves, to the ludicrous notion that fat couch-potatos with a gun will take down the overbearing Federal Government running amuck, the U.S. Army, the FBI, the various National Guards, and local law enforcement, it all demonstrates that some "think" lunacy is invincible. And, by the looks of it, their numbers are exploding.

As I said, it isn't funny at all.

Here we go quoting that bogus Kellerman "study" again

 

[MisterBeale]

...

That called for more than a thank you.

As far as I've seen, you've done the yeoman's work rebutting the NRA-sponsored bullshit on here, so the praise goes to you. I don't know how you stomach all that egotistical, mendacious nonsense.

WHERE DO ALL YOU OTHER POSTERS HAVE A CONTACT?!? Someone send me the NRA addi to get paid or I'm not posting any more.

You mean you are paid and I am doing this shit for free? Fuck that, I'm outta here. . . . .

 

[OldLady]

They shoulda armed themselves.

Poor soul.....I grew up in country with 0 guns...guess what? 0 mass shootings or any shootings for that matter....u became numb to these killings I see.

Mass killings account for 1% of all murders

So tell me why is it worse to be killed by a gun than a knife or any other of a thousand ways?

For you people dying is just a number.

And for you people getting murdered with a gun is worse than getting murdered in a thousand other ways

We don't mass murder people in a thousand other ways, though, do we? We use guns, usually AR's--which makes sense since that is exactly what they were designed for.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

Make that a law and watch the definition of irresponsible be changed to include not flossing every day

 

[Asclepias]

Mental illness is the main cause of most of these mass shootings. As a nation we have failed to address mental illness in a satisfactory or practical mode. What the liberals should attempt is to try and stop allowing mentally ill people to legally acquire weapons....that is doable and something that should be done.

Beyond that mental illness is very common today a and getting even more common. What can be done to help the mentally ill?

Yeah but where is the line drawn? I think its mental illness when you drive a car into a crowd of people because they dont share your beliefs about a statue. Where does mental illness start and radical opinions end?

When you support bernie sanders and left wing causes so much you take a rifle to a Republican baseball game and try to kill them.....or you believe the propaganda of black lives matter so much you murder 6 dallas police officers, and others with the same black lives matter sympathies murder several more police officers.....

How about when you got to a Black church and kill people praying or when you try again to enter a Black church fail and shoot two more Black people and then tell a white CCW carrying person that whites dont kill other whites? How about when you kill some white Jews praying cause they run the world bank and you are behind in debt

 

[Skull Pilot]

They shoulda armed themselves.

Poor soul.....I grew up in country with 0 guns...guess what? 0 mass shootings or any shootings for that matter....u became numb to these killings I see.

Mass killings account for 1% of all murders

So tell me why is it worse to be killed by a gun than a knife or any other of a thousand ways?

For you people dying is just a number.

And for you people getting murdered with a gun is worse than getting murdered in a thousand other ways

We don't mass murder people in a thousand other ways, though, do we? We use guns, usually AR's--which makes sense since that is exactly what they were designed for.

Murder is murder whether it's one person or 12 people

and we know you only care about the 1 in 100 murder victims who happen to be killed in a mass shooting

 

[OldLady]

...

That called for more than a thank you.

As far as I've seen, you've done the yeoman's work rebutting the NRA-sponsored bullshit on here, so the praise goes to you. I don't know how you stomach all that egotistical, mendacious nonsense.

WHERE DO ALL YOU OTHER POSTERS HAVE A CONTACT?!? Someone send me the NRA addi to get paid or I'm not posting any more.

You mean you are paid and I am doing this shit for free? Fuck that, I'm outta here. . . . .

Check with 2AGuy. He's gotta be wealthy by now. lol

 

[OldLady]

Poor soul.....I grew up in country with 0 guns...guess what? 0 mass shootings or any shootings for that matter....u became numb to these killings I see.

Mass killings account for 1% of all murders

So tell me why is it worse to be killed by a gun than a knife or any other of a thousand ways?

For you people dying is just a number.

And for you people getting murdered with a gun is worse than getting murdered in a thousand other ways

We don't mass murder people in a thousand other ways, though, do we? We use guns, usually AR's--which makes sense since that is exactly what they were designed for.

Murder is murder whether it's one person or 12 people

and we know you only care about the 1 in 100 murder victims who happen to be killed in a mass shooting

What makes you think that? Are you about to burst into "What about Chicago?" again?