14 yr old rape victim lashed to death

[syrenn]

Girl got raped
Girl got whiped as punishment
Girl died before punishment could be completed

Government now wondering why she died. NOT why she was punished.

What does the government have to do with anything?

So are you saying that this is a arbitration thing? The one with the clerics who give out the fatwas?



Snip

Govt asked to explain failure to stop fatwa
HC gives Shariatpur admin 15 days to tell why it could not save life of 14-year-old rape victim

Sounds like the government stepping to me there kalam.

 

[mdn2000]

Yet every rape of a boy by a man is done by a gay man.

Oh goody. Another intelligent being.
Got stats to prove that statement?

I need to prove that rape of boys by men is being done by Gay Men?

 

[Kalam]

Girl got raped
Girl got whiped as punishment
Girl died before punishment could be completed

Government now wondering why she died. NOT why she was punished.

What does the government have to do with anything?

So are you saying that this is a arbitration thing? The one with the clerics who give out the fatwas?



Snip

Govt asked to explain failure to stop fatwa
HC gives Shariatpur admin 15 days to tell why it could not save life of 14-year-old rape victim

Sounds like the government stepping to me there kalam.

I'm sorry; what are you saying?

 

[syrenn]

What does the government have to do with anything?

So are you saying that this is a arbitration thing? The one with the clerics who give out the fatwas?



Snip

Govt asked to explain failure to stop fatwa
HC gives Shariatpur admin 15 days to tell why it could not save life of 14-year-old rape victim

Sounds like the government stepping to me there kalam.

I'm sorry; what are you saying?

I think you need to read the op and the links kalam

 

[mdn2000]

A rape victim is never punished according to Shari'ah:

Then how did a rape victim not only get punished but murdered according to Sharia law.

She didn't -- unless the people who passed sentence can cite a clear example from scripture that demands punishment for rape victims, their ruling has no basis in Shari'ah.

Yet they study the Koran daily and apply Sharia law daily, how could they get this judgement so wrong? Is it a simple mistake, or is the Koran explicit on this point. As you see in my other post, your example leaves a lot to interpet.

 

[Kalam]

So are you saying that this is a arbitration thing? The one with the clerics who give out the fatwas?



Snip






Sounds like the government stepping to me there kalam.

I'm sorry; what are you saying?

I think you need to read the op and the links kalam

I did.

 

[Kalam]

Yet they study the Koran daily and apply Sharia law daily, how could they get this judgement so wrong?

You assume a lot about their scholarly credentials. You also assume that their motives were pure.

Is it a simple mistake, or is the Koran explicit on this point. As you see in my other post, your example leaves a lot to interpet.

I'm afraid it doesn't. Would you like to explain why you believe it does?

 

[mdn2000]

Yet they study the Koran daily and apply Sharia law daily, how could they get this judgement so wrong?

You assume a lot about their scholarly credentials. You also assume that their motives were pure.

Is it a simple mistake, or is the Koran explicit on this point. As you see in my other post, your example leaves a lot to interpet.

I'm afraid it doesn't. Would you like to explain why you believe it does?

I assume as much from the article as you have assumed, no more.

Your example in another post did leave a lot for interpetation, especially if you use two or three sentences to describe an incident over a thousand years old.

Is the example you posted the relevant text these people should of referenced or is there a bit more for them to use to pass judgement?

 

[Ravi]

i hate injustice regardless of who is doing it....hard to claim that your religion doesnt punish rape victim when this girl died of the punishment

I think what Kalam is saying is that the people that meted out this punishment are perverting Islam. Much in the same way some Christians pervert Christianity.

 

[syrenn]

i hate injustice regardless of who is doing it....hard to claim that your religion doesnt punish rape victim when this girl died of the punishment

I think what Kalam is saying is that the people that meted out this punishment are perverting Islam. Much in the same way some Christians pervert Christianity.

I know that.


However, i sure don't see any christian arbitration handing out judgments nor do i see them passing out punishments that are carried out.

I haven't seen any christian stoning s or whippings of late. Have you?

 

[Kalam]

I assume as much from the article as you have assumed, no more.

Your example in another post did leave a lot for interpetation, especially if you use two or three sentences to describe an incident over a thousand years old.

Is the example you posted the relevant text these people should of referenced or is there a bit more for them to use to pass judgement?

Absolutely. The example I provided indicates very clearly that victims are not held responsible. Here's another fatwa:

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner, thanks for your question, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His sake.

Islamically speaking, the raped woman is not guilty of any sin because she was forced to it beyond her control. Stressing this, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, “Allah has forgiven my Ummah for their mistakes, what they forget and what they are forced to do.” Thus, the raped woman is a victim and all members of her community should deal with her with honor and kindness and should encourage her to obtain her rights through all possible means.

In an attempt to furnish you with an answer to your question, we would like to cite for you the following fatwa issued by Dr. Ahmad Yusuf Sulaiman, professor of law and Islamic Shari`ah at Cairo University:

"If a woman is raped, she should press charges against the one who raped her. If it is proved that she was raped, then the court must apply discretionary punishment or ta`zir on the rapist. Such discretionary punishment may reach the death penalty, according to some schools of thought. This is based wholly on the fact that the rape is confirmed through medical tests and court procedures, without the confession of the rapist himself.

In cases where the rapist confesses the crime, then the penalty for zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) is to be applied to him. If he is not married, then he is to be whipped 100 lashes. If he is married, then he is to be stoned to death.

As for the rape victim, no punishment is to be inflicted on her. She is to be treated with dignity and honor, and all forms of help should be given to her to gain her rights."

Ask the Scholar

 

[Ravi]

i hate injustice regardless of who is doing it....hard to claim that your religion doesnt punish rape victim when this girl died of the punishment

I think what Kalam is saying is that the people that meted out this punishment are perverting Islam. Much in the same way some Christians pervert Christianity.

I know that.


However, i sure don't see any christian arbitration handing out judgments nor do i see them passing out punishments that are carried out.

I haven't seen any christian stoning s or whippings of late. Have you?

No...but I've seen them blow up a few things. Not just abortion clinics either...

I'm not really sure what your point is...in your mind all muslims are evil?

 

[syrenn]

I think what Kalam is saying is that the people that meted out this punishment are perverting Islam. Much in the same way some Christians pervert Christianity.

I know that.


However, i sure don't see any christian arbitration handing out judgments nor do i see them passing out punishments that are carried out.

I haven't seen any christian stoning s or whippings of late. Have you?

No...but I've seen them blow up a few things. Not just abortion clinics either...

I'm not really sure what your point is...in your mind all muslims are evil?

No i dont think all muslims are evil. Far from that.

 

[mdn2000]

This is just not one persons interpetation of Islam, it seems its the whole cities interpetation. This was not one cleric simply passing judgement, not in the least. How is it that a man is raping a girl yet even his wife joins to beat the woman, the wife and a brother.

Still, what did the father do, did he fight with his life to stop this or only thought, "fuck", after she was dead. It almost seems everyone was okay punishing the girl, its just the Fatah took it to far, even the high courts seem to state it was wrong to punish the criminal outside of the courts, the high court does not seem to state that the victim should not of been found guilty, only that the punishment outside the normal courts was un-called for, this is in the article linked to at the beginning of this thread, I add this quote showing it was a lot of people who through the culture they lived, which they are practising Islam, it was the culture that found this woman guilty after being raped, not one statement do I see condem's finding a woman guilty of being raped, all the article states is the punishment was outside ruled illegal.

The courts do not state she was innocent, only the sentence was against their orders, I do not even see that the courts condemed the harshness, that being a death penalty, only that they carried out the sentence against another government order against a Fatawahaha.

Raped girl whipped to death

On Sunday night, when Hena went out of her house to respond to nature's call, Mahbub forcibly took her to an abandoned house nearby and raped. Hearing her screaming, Mahbub's wife Shilpi Begum and brother came there. But surprisingly they beat up the rape victim. At one stage, Hena's father and some relatives reached the spot and rescued her.

As the news spread, some locals including Idris Fakir, Saiful, a teacher of Chamta Abul Bashar Madrasa; Mofiz Uddin, Latif Meer Malot, Akkas, Yasin and Joynal Meer Malot, Alabux Korati arranged for arbitration. They sentenced the rapist to 200 lashes with Tk 50,000 fine and 100 lashes to the victim.

 

[Kalam]

This is just not one persons interpetation of Islam, it seems its the whole cities interpetation. This was not one cleric simply passing judgement, not in the least. How is it that a man is raping a girl yet even his wife joins to beat the woman, the wife and a brother.

And you're suggesting that a local "judge" and villagers in one of the world's poorest countries -- people who are almost certainly illiterate and have had no formal education, "Islamic" or otherwise -- are likely to have a better understanding of Shari'ah than, say, people who teach Shari'ah at a university in one of the world's largest Muslim countries? Do you know that the village was unanimous in its support of this decision?

You clearly want this to be legitimate under Shari'ah and are ignoring common sense in your attempt to make that appear to be the case. Yawn.

 

[mdn2000]

Sad is the story, is it Islam, or is it just one cleric, or is it the culture of the town.

The culture of the town is Islam, that seems clear, somehow I think its time the USA step forward and do more then simply demand human rights for all.

This must be seen as a failure of the United Nations and the USA. What is the United Nations for if it does not protect all people.

Who are we that we can endlessly hear stories of horror and your response is a simple, its not us.

Who are we, as refugees if we never do more in the world then to hide, huddled together in the USA, indifferent to the suffering and murder we escaped.

 

[Bosun]

This is just not one persons interpetation of Islam, it seems its the whole cities interpetation. This was not one cleric simply passing judgement, not in the least. How is it that a man is raping a girl yet even his wife joins to beat the woman, the wife and a brother.

And you're suggesting that a local "judge" and villagers in one of the world's poorest countries -- people who are almost certainly illiterate and have had no formal education, "Islamic" or otherwise -- are likely to have a better understanding of Shari'ah than, say, people who teach Shari'ah at a university in one of the world's largest Muslim countries? Do you know that the village was unanimous in its support of this decision?

You clearly want this to be legitimate under Shari'ah and are ignoring common sense in your attempt to make that appear to be the case. Yawn.

what exactly are you trying to say, my dear brother,
علم الكلام

will we talk about the word of allah? I pose a question, if your (edited) or (edited) were to reject the word of allah and become an apostate, what would you do?

i do not mean any insult or malice, my dear brother... may your allah grant you and your (edited) peace and prosperity.....

 

[Kalam]

what exactly are you trying to say, my dear brother,
علم الكلام

will we talk about the word of allah?

Hello Ian,

'Ilm al-Kalaam is not currently the subject of our discussion. I'd advise against discussing other posters' family members since that's a violation of this forum's rules. If you'd like to rephrase your question in a way that doesn't mention my relatives, I'd be happy to answer it.

And a good day to you Mr. Astaslem.

 

[Bosun]

what exactly are you trying to say, my dear brother,
علم الكلام

will we talk about the word of allah? I pose a question, if your (edited) were to reject the word of allah and become an apostate, what would you do?

may allah grant you and your (edited) peace and prosperity.....

Hello Ian,

'Ilm al-Kalaam is not currently the subject of our discussion. I'd advise against discussing other posters' family members since that's a violation of this forum's rules. If you'd like to rephrase your question in a way that doesn't mention my relatives, I'd be happy to answer it.

And a good day to you Mr. Astaslem.

OK if a friend, associate, or someone close to you were to reject the word of allah and become an apostate, what would you do?

may allah grant you and those close to you peace and prosperity...

I am not Ian and I am not Mr. Astaslem.

I am not a native speaker of Arabic. But I have studied some.... I hope that you do not hold it against me that I will not understand the Qur'an or the teachings of Muhammad because I am not a native speaker...

 

[Bosun]

Kalam,

By the way Shari'ah is the truth and the way of Islam, isn't it.. I figured because Shari'ah reflects the words of allah, then it would have fit in perfectly.... By the way I edited my posts to take out any mention of you know what. I kindly respect that you will edit your quotes of me.

I did not realize that I would be in violation of TOS for mentioning offspring in a non negative way.... it was simply a question posed. Would Shari'ah totally accept an Apostate's right to reject allah's word and move to the Kafr?