2 gunmen w AR15s open fire in Houston; 2 citizens down; 4 cops; PD helicopter shot

[2aguy]

Mass Shootings Have High-Capacity Magazines in Common

see....this is just a lie that you linked to....the magazines were standard capacity magazines for the pistols...they are lying in that link.......and it shows, they don't care about the number of bullets in the magazine...they care that they can ban certain pistols by banning magazines that hold more than 10 bullets......

And they lie about the people stopping the mass shooters during reloads....they mention Tucson...which I just showed was dumb luck on behalf of two different individuals....not charging during a magazine change....and the long island train shooting that they mention....the guy reloaded several times....and was only stopped when he ran out of actual bullets...then he was mobbed by the people on the train...

lies and more lies....

They fail to mention that the Forty Hood Shooter shot 3 different soldiers who rushed him...killing at least 1 or 2 of them and critically injuring the other one...then he went on to shoot the rest of the people...

lies and more lies....

And Virginia Tech......I believe Kleck mentions he had multiple, 10 round magazines...so they probably lied on that one too...I'll have to check...

Yep...the Virginia Tech shooter...your link lied about him too....

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.

 

[Brain357]

Some Rifleman dude on here yesterday said he could fire 10 bullets in 10 seconds with his old Enfield, with a three second reload. That's why I used that as an example. You have to reload. Most people could not do what the Rifleman does. And in that three seconds, a lot of people could run or throw furniture at him, or whatever.

Wrong.....actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of dead in a mass shooting.....actual research...not just making it up because you think it sounds right.

That's true. Matter of fact, a boring but intresting uestion would be, how many reloads have bad guys done during their shootings? going by memorie, I can't remember a mass shooter who did not bring multiple weapons to their crimes.

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

 

[Crixus]

Wrong.....actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of dead in a mass shooting.....actual research...not just making it up because you think it sounds right.

That's true. Matter of fact, a boring but intresting uestion would be, how many reloads have bad guys done during their shootings? going by memorie, I can't remember a mass shooter who did not bring multiple weapons to their crimes.

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Not really.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong.....actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of dead in a mass shooting.....actual research...not just making it up because you think it sounds right.

That's true. Matter of fact, a boring but intresting uestion would be, how many reloads have bad guys done during their shootings? going by memorie, I can't remember a mass shooter who did not bring multiple weapons to their crimes.

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Wrong moron....the research shows the rate of fire is slow and the shooters are relaxed and that the reloads are not a problem for them.....the other ones simply dropped their gun and drew another one........

you keep lying...and lying and lying....

 

[Brain357]

That's true. Matter of fact, a boring but intresting uestion would be, how many reloads have bad guys done during their shootings? going by memorie, I can't remember a mass shooter who did not bring multiple weapons to their crimes.

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Not really.

YouTube is full of failed reloads. Yes really.

 

[Brain357]

That's true. Matter of fact, a boring but intresting uestion would be, how many reloads have bad guys done during their shootings? going by memorie, I can't remember a mass shooter who did not bring multiple weapons to their crimes.

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Wrong moron....the research shows the rate of fire is slow and the shooters are relaxed and that the reloads are not a problem for them.....the other ones simply dropped their gun and drew another one........

you keep lying...and lying and lying....

If it isn't problem for them then it isn't for you. If you believe what you are saying then you have no reason to fear a high cap magazine ban.

 

[Crixus]

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Not really.

YouTube is full of failed reloads. Yes really.

yup. it happens. even to cops and military folk. that's why they train to transition from primary weapon to secondary in a flash. Most can Transition faster then a reload.

 

[Crixus]

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Wrong moron....the research shows the rate of fire is slow and the shooters are relaxed and that the reloads are not a problem for them.....the other ones simply dropped their gun and drew another one........

you keep lying...and lying and lying....

If it isn't problem for them then it isn't for you. If you believe what you are saying then you have no reason to fear a high cap magazine ban.

Nope. because,

1. it wouldn't last
2. I have tons of higcap mags for three of the most popular fire arms.
3. A ban would fund my next gun purchas.

 

[Carla_Danger]

1 terrorist dead.

Yes, a US military vet, so absolutely a terrorist.
As we know, the US has attacked more countries it wasn't at war with than any other country in history, even counting the British empire, commonly using aircraft to commit mass terrorist attacks against civilians.

This terrorist was yet another example of an American turning his terrorist training against other Americans, assisted by your pathetic gun laws.

You're an excellent example of the anti-military Left. Brain357
and Carla_Danger must be very proud of you.

Wow, you know so much about me. I guess you've searched and have something to back up your claim?

You say I'm anti-gun, and now I'm anti-military, but you cannot find one posting from me to prove it.

I don't masturbate to guns and gun porn the way you do. I'm about as interested in guns as I am in the game of golf. I don't hate golf, and I certainly don't hate golfers....I'm simply not interested in either guns or golf.

 

[Brain357]

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Wrong moron....the research shows the rate of fire is slow and the shooters are relaxed and that the reloads are not a problem for them.....the other ones simply dropped their gun and drew another one........

you keep lying...and lying and lying....

If it isn't problem for them then it isn't for you. If you believe what you are saying then you have no reason to fear a high cap magazine ban.

Nope. because,

1. it wouldn't last
2. I have tons of higcap mags for three of the most popular fire arms.
3. A ban would fund my next gun purchas.

Why so many hicap mags if they don't matter? Why does the military use hicap mags if they don't matter?

 

[Carla_Danger]

They guy was insane, just like the others that do this crap. The fact people that his politics meant anything is pretty stupid. The guy that shot Giffords was from the left, no he wasn't, he was insane. This guy isn't from the right, he is insane. Not everything is political.

Oh look, we have an armchair psychiatrist.

Who diagnosed him?

This guy was anti-Government, yelling about homosexuals, Jews, Walmart, and the end of the world.

Try again, buddy.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong.....actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of dead in a mass shooting.....actual research...not just making it up because you think it sounds right.

That's true. Matter of fact, a boring but intresting uestion would be, how many reloads have bad guys done during their shootings? going by memorie, I can't remember a mass shooter who did not bring multiple weapons to their crimes.

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

And wrong again.....I repeat...

Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Wrong moron....the research shows the rate of fire is slow and the shooters are relaxed and that the reloads are not a problem for them.....the other ones simply dropped their gun and drew another one........

you keep lying...and lying and lying....

If it isn't problem for them then it isn't for you. If you believe what you are saying then you have no reason to fear a high cap magazine ban.

Nope. because,

1. it wouldn't last
2. I have tons of higcap mags for three of the most popular fire arms.
3. A ban would fund my next gun purchas.

Why so many hicap mags if they don't matter? Why does the military use hicap mags if they don't matter?

They may matter in self defense moron you don't know how much ammo you will need........and soldiers operate out of contact with regular supply chains moron and they are actively engaged in fighting large numbers of enemies at any given time........please...engage brain before posting.....

 

[Papageorgio]

They guy was insane, just like the others that do this crap. The fact people that his politics meant anything is pretty stupid. The guy that shot Giffords was from the left, no he wasn't, he was insane. This guy isn't from the right, he is insane. Not everything is political.

Oh look, we have an armchair psychiatrist.

Who diagnosed him?

This guy was anti-Government, yelling about homosexuals, Jews, Walmart, and the end of the world.

Try again, buddy.

So sane people pull this kind of crap. If he was yelling about Walmart, wouldn't that make him a liberal? Those the only people I know that hate Walmart! LOL!

 

[2aguy]

Too many errors to address, so I'll just stick with this one. He could also have driven a pickup into a crowd of people or made an IED out of a BBQ propane bottle and blown himself up at the mall.

The main problem isn't trying to ban guns, cars or propane bottles but to help those in need of mental health care. Especially veterans.

You Every-Gun types are so predictable in your arguments, turning to cars and IED's as alternative weapons. Maybe he could have shot up some people with an old Enfield, sure. Not 212 bullets worth. Do you at least hear me? I'm not sure where that's an error.
As I've already said, I agree with you that the Vet needed help and we need to improve our ability to help them.

You ever hear the term "mad minute " ? Google that then come back and talk about that old Enfield. Anyway, as far as stats go, I'm pretty sure the weapons vary between guns, knives cars and so on. If a person wants to do murder they will do it. Just like the dude who did the Cologne school massicre.

Some Rifleman dude on here yesterday said he could fire 10 bullets in 10 seconds with his old Enfield, with a three second reload. That's why I used that as an example. You have to reload. Most people could not do what the Rifleman does. And in that three seconds, a lot of people could run or throw furniture at him, or whatever.

Wrong.....actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of dead in a mass shooting.....actual research...not just making it up because you think it sounds right.

That's true. Matter of fact, a boring but intresting uestion would be, how many reloads have bad guys done during their shootings? going by memorie, I can't remember a mass shooter who did not bring multiple weapons to their crimes.

Here.....I found it...Klecks actual paper on magazine capacity...


Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.


LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

-------------

Methods Definition of Eligible Incidents We tried to identify, as comprehensively as possible, all mass shootings that occurred in the U.S. in the twenty-year period from 1994 through 2013 inclusive and that involved an LCM.

An LCM was defined as a magazine holding more than ten rounds of ammunition. A mass shooting was defined as one in which more than six people were shot, either fatally or nonfatally, in a single incident.

Any specific numerical cutoff is necessarily somewhat arbitrary, but some are less arbitrary than others.

The six-victim cutoff was used because an offender could shoot as many as six persons using a typical old-fashioned six-shot revolver of the sort that has been around since the 19th century, and our goal was to identify all incidents in which it was plausible that use of an LCM (always used in connection with modern semiautomatic firearms) affected the number of casualties.


It is less likely that LCMs affect the casualty count in incidents in which few people were shot, and generally fewer rounds were fired.

Thus, had the numerical cutoff been set lower, the sample of incidents would have included more cases in which LCM use was unlikely to have affected the number of victims. In that way, we have intentionally biased the sample in favor of the hypothesis that LCM use causes a higher casualty count.

We relied on a list compiled by the staff of the Violence Policy Center (2015) to identify LCM-involved mass shootings. Because this organization advocates bans on LCMs (Violence Policy Center 2011), we are confident its staff were well-motivated to compile as comprehensive

 

[Carla_Danger]

They guy was insane, just like the others that do this crap. The fact people that his politics meant anything is pretty stupid. The guy that shot Giffords was from the left, no he wasn't, he was insane. This guy isn't from the right, he is insane. Not everything is political.

Oh look, we have an armchair psychiatrist.

Who diagnosed him?

This guy was anti-Government, yelling about homosexuals, Jews, Walmart, and the end of the world.

Try again, buddy.

So sane people pull this kind of crap. If he was yelling about Walmart, wouldn't that make him a liberal? Those the only people I know that hate Walmart! LOL!

I'm convinced that you're a tard.

 

[Brain357]

That's true. Matter of fact, a boring but intresting uestion would be, how many reloads have bad guys done during their shootings? going by memorie, I can't remember a mass shooter who did not bring multiple weapons to their crimes.

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

And wrong again.....I repeat...

Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

Wrong moron....the research shows the rate of fire is slow and the shooters are relaxed and that the reloads are not a problem for them.....the other ones simply dropped their gun and drew another one........

you keep lying...and lying and lying....

If it isn't problem for them then it isn't for you. If you believe what you are saying then you have no reason to fear a high cap magazine ban.

Nope. because,

1. it wouldn't last
2. I have tons of higcap mags for three of the most popular fire arms.
3. A ban would fund my next gun purchas.

Why so many hicap mags if they don't matter? Why does the military use hicap mags if they don't matter?

They may matter in self defense moron you don't know how much ammo you will need........and soldiers operate out of contact with regular supply chains moron and they are actively engaged in fighting large numbers of enemies at any given time........please...engage brain before posting.....

May matter in self defense? Oh that is funny. You obviously believe they matter or you would have no issue with a ban. Stop lying.

 

[2aguy]

Here you go....Klecks on the topic.....

http://www.utdallas.edu/~tvk071000/Banning Large Capacity Magazines Will Not Reduce Crime.pdf


Whether a ban on large capacity magazines (LCM’s) could lead to a significant reduction in ordinary gun homicides hinges on the following question:

How many victims would not have been killed if the assailant was limited to a 10-shot magazine?

While medical and police data on this matter are hard to come by, the few studies that have examined the issue of shots fired during criminal attacks reveals the following:

1) criminals, on average, fire less than 4 rounds in a typical gun attack (irrespective of whether someone is killed or wounded);

2) only 8 percent of victims actually wounded in gun attacks suffered five or more entrance wounds;

3) in attacks leading to the victims death, semiautomatics had been fired 2.7 times on average, as compared to 2.1 times for revolvers.

In light of these findings, the idea that freezing the supply of LCM’s (as existing LCM’s would likely be grandfathered into the new ban) could produce a detectable drop in the rate of gun homicides seems unlikely at best – gun criminals rarely fire large numbers of rounds.

Nevertheless, supporters might still argue that banning LCM’s could save lives by reducing the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

If there were nearby persons willing to tackle the shooter, limits on magazine capacity might limit how much death and injury a shooter could inflict with the initial magazine; the smaller the magazine, the fewer the victims shot before the killer was stopped by interveners. Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

And wrong again.....I repeat...

Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

Wrong moron....the research shows the rate of fire is slow and the shooters are relaxed and that the reloads are not a problem for them.....the other ones simply dropped their gun and drew another one........

you keep lying...and lying and lying....

If it isn't problem for them then it isn't for you. If you believe what you are saying then you have no reason to fear a high cap magazine ban.

Nope. because,

1. it wouldn't last
2. I have tons of higcap mags for three of the most popular fire arms.
3. A ban would fund my next gun purchas.

Why so many hicap mags if they don't matter? Why does the military use hicap mags if they don't matter?

They may matter in self defense moron you don't know how much ammo you will need........and soldiers operate out of contact with regular supply chains moron and they are actively engaged in fighting large numbers of enemies at any given time........please...engage brain before posting.....

May matter in self defense? Oh that is funny. You obviously believe they matter or you would have no issue with a ban. Stop lying.

You have no right to set a limit on how much ammo a normal, law abiding citizen who commits no crime can carry.....

And again....we know the goal....use magazine capacity to ban whole categories of regular rifles and pistols......

 

[Brain357]

Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21]He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25]Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.[26] Loughner was tackled to the ground by Bill Badger, a 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel [27] who had been shot himself. Loughner was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio, a concealed weapon (CCW) permit holder, had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.[28] Thirty-one shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.[29]

See......you are lying again....I have posted the actual witness testimony...you have seen it and now you post this....you are a liar....

Loughner shot a guy in the head.....he thought he killed the guy as the guy fell and he kept walking forward.....he only grazed the guy...by getting too close he allowed the guy to grab him.....as they wrestled...the old lady was lying on the ground...why? She laid down on the ground because she thought he would just walk by her and not shoot her....as the guy and the shooter wrestled they fell in arms length of the old lady....so she reached out and secured his magazine...

Pure dumb luck......I have posted the actual witness accounts over and over and by posting this untruthful account.....you show yourself to be a liar.....

And dumb luck causes issues reloading. Happens all the time. And the more reloading the more lives saved.

And wrong again.....I repeat...

Even in these rare events, however, LCM’s are irrelevant to the number of victims shot.

For example, in the decade before the expired AW ban, in the entire U.S. there were 15 mass shooting incidents in which more than 6 victims were killed or more than 12 were killed or wounded.

Of the 15 cases, in 14 of them either the shooter possessed multiple guns, which made it unnecessary for him to reload once one gun was empty, or the shooter in fact reloaded.

Recent history also casts doubt on whether a ban on LCM’s would alter the number of persons killed and wounded in mass public shootings.

While one of the Columbine shooters used a 995 Hi-Point carbine rifle with a 10-round limit on magazine capacity (during the AW ban), he simply brought additional magazines to the attack—13 to be exact.

The Virginia Tech shooter had 17 magazines for his handguns and most were of the 10- round variety.


The Newtown shooter brought three guns to the school and fired at least two of them.

Simply put, these killers do not need LCM’s to fire many rounds without reloading – they simply bring plenty of magazines with them or drop one gun when its ammunition is exhausted and start firing another. Further, there are virtually no mass killings in which there is a bystander or victim willing to tackle the killer even if he does need to reload.

If it isn't problem for them then it isn't for you. If you believe what you are saying then you have no reason to fear a high cap magazine ban.

Nope. because,

1. it wouldn't last
2. I have tons of higcap mags for three of the most popular fire arms.
3. A ban would fund my next gun purchas.

Why so many hicap mags if they don't matter? Why does the military use hicap mags if they don't matter?

They may matter in self defense moron you don't know how much ammo you will need........and soldiers operate out of contact with regular supply chains moron and they are actively engaged in fighting large numbers of enemies at any given time........please...engage brain before posting.....

May matter in self defense? Oh that is funny. You obviously believe they matter or you would have no issue with a ban. Stop lying.

You have no right to set a limit on how much ammo a normal, law abiding citizen who commits no crime can carry.....

And again....we know the goal....use magazine capacity to ban whole categories of regular rifles and pistols......

Sorry but the right to life is an important one.

 

[Divine Wind]

I certainly didn't wish it on him, you know that, right?

You seem only interested in banning guns, not helping vets.

No guns here. Happy? Think better mental health instead of thousands of screaming anti-gun nuts would have been more beneficial? Now tell me that if knives were banned, she would have "probably jumped off a bridge".


Police: 3 boys dead in north Phoenix; mom hospitalized with self-inflicted wounds
Three boys, ages 8, 5 and 2 months, were found stabbed to death at a north Phoenix home early Thursday. Their mother, a suspect in their murder, was hospitalized in critical condition with self-inflicted stab wounds, a Phoenix police spokesman said Thursday.

The older boys were found in a bedroom closet, and the infant was found in a suitcase in the same closet, said Sgt. Trent Crump, Phoenix police spokesman. Some of the body parts were dismembered, Crump said.

The woman, who is 29, stabbed herself in the abdomen and the neck, Crump said. The woman was expected to survive those injuries, he said.

The woman had grown up in Phoenix and had moved to Virginia in 2014, Crump said, and had moved back for the birth of the 2-month-old.

The family members' names were not immediately available.

Crump said the house in which they were found was owned by the woman's mother, who also lived there. She was speechless, Crump said, and didn't understand why the tragedy happened.

 

[Divine Wind]

And predictably you didn't answer my question specifically yet. Will you?

What's to answer? Your speculation that if guns were banned, Garza "probably would have jumped off a bridge"?

If knives and cars were banned, would this guy have jumped off a bridge?

Man stabs, runs over wife, kills 2 kids before committing suicide | Fox News
A Florida man stabbed his estranged wife to death and ran over her body with his car Sunday night before murdering his two young children and committing suicide as police closed in.


Henry Ramone Brown, 30, hid in the trunk of Chericia Brown’s car as she dined at a Chili’s restaurant in Lake Mary at around 10 p.m.,FOX35 reported. When Chericia, 31, exited the establishment, Henry emerged and stabbed her before running off.

As two passersby attempted to help Chericia, Henry returned in a car, running over his wife and hitting the two people trying to help her. Paramedics took Chericia to a hospital where she later died. One of the two Good Samaritans remained hospitalized on Monday with unspecified injuries. The other had been released.

After hitting Chericia, Brown again fled the Chili’s parking lot. This time he picked up his 4-year-old son and 1-year-old daughter from a babysitter’s apartment, before driving to Central Florida Regional Hospital, in a different vehicle, to try to find Chericia. There, he was confronted by police officers and Brown exchanged gunfire with authorities. No one was injured during the incident, officials said.

Police located Brown driving on I-4 just minutes later and used stop sticks to disable the vehicle. Inside the car, authorities found Brown and his two children dead. Officials believe Brown killed his son and daughter before committing suicide as officers surrounded him.

It was not clear how Brown killed the children, or how he killed himself.