2 Russian stray missiles have just hit a farm in Przewodów on the Polish side of the Polish-Ukrainian border, killing 2 Poles. Nato Article 5?

[basquebromance]

 

[AntonToo]

You're both warmongers and Nazis.

Nazis?

You are cuckoo for cocoa puffs idiot that can't put togather any sort of coherent argument.

You can't explain why you call me "warmonger", you can't explain why you call people Nazis, you just have feelings that you throw up on the internetz.

 

[basquebromance]

 

[basquebromance]

 

[Ringo]

Investigation of the Boeing-777 crash near Donetsk. The court in The Hague found Igor Strelkov guilty of the crash of the Boeing 777 Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. Other defendants Sergey Dubinsky and Leonid Kharchenko were also found guilty. The fourth defendant Oleg Pulatov was acquitted: the Dutch justice could not prove that he had any involvement in the launch of the Buk-M1 air defense missile system.
The trial of all Russians took place in absentia. Igor Strelkov himself, he is the head of the militia of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) Igor Girkin, is now back in the Donbass, he is participating in a special military operation in Ukraine, TASS reports. The court sentenced all those found guilty to life imprisonment. The trial lasted two years.

Judge Hendrik Steinhuis concluded that a civilian plane flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014, was shot down by mistake by a Buk missile from Pervomaisky, which was over the combat zone. At the same time, 298 people were killed – 283 passengers and 15 crew members.

"This seems to be a mistake, but such an error does not detract from the presence of intent and premeditation," the judge said.
The Dutch court regarded the examination of the Almaz-Antey concern and the evidence that the Buk-M1 missile of the Ukrainian complex was launched from the territory near the village of Zaroshchenskoye, which was controlled by the AFU, and not by Donetsk militia, as unconvincing. Moreover, the judge called it "fabricated." He was not even confused by the striking elements of the rocket, which are made in the form of metal butterflies. These are the ones used in the Buk missiles, which are in service with the air defense of Ukraine. At the same time, the Dutch Institute of Forensic Examination could not give an opinion on who owned the Buk complex from which the missile was fired.
The court rejected all objective data provided by Russia. In addition, the credibility of Ukrainian data was again called into question by the incident in Poland on November 15, 2022. Then a missile of the Ukrainian S-300 air defense system exploded on Polish territory, hitting a granary, a tractor and killing two local residents. At the same time, Kiev, including President Vladimir Zelensky personally, proved that this was a Russian missile that was launched at a Polish village from Russian territory.

That is, whose rocket it was, they could not prove, but Putin is still to blame... Political faggots.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Rust_Cohle]

Really moron? What country did they invade?

Moron, US backed a coup in Ukraine in 2014. How many times must this be explained to you

 

[Rust_Cohle]

Nazis?

You are cuckoo for cocoa puffs idiot that can't put togather any sort of coherent argument.

You can't explain why you call me "warmonger", you can't explain why you call people Nazis, you just have feelings that you throw up on the internetz.

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem

As Ukraine's struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law...

www.reuters.com

 

[basquebromance]

 

[AntonToo]

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem

As Ukraine's struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law...

www.reuters.com

Read the discussion before commenting, he called me and Biden Nazis.

 

[AntonToo]

Moron, US backed a coup in Ukraine in 2014. How many times must this be explained to you

I will repeat the question - who did US and Ukraine invade here?

Answer - NO ONE.

This was an elective invasion by Russians. THAT is who first and foremost started the war dummy.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What are the odds that these were actually Ukrainian missiles?

 

[petro]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

After Failing to Start WWIII as Planned, Biden-Harris Regime Admits It Was UKRAINIAN Air Defense, Not Russian Missiles, That Killed Two in Poland - 🔔 The Liberty Daily

If you love the news, check out The Liberty Daily's homepage. The Biden-Harris regime, under orders from the Deep State, the globalist elite cabal, and the Military Industrial Complex, attempted to coax NATO into World War III this week. American corporate media helped by declaring as fact what...

thelibertydaily.com

this little guy, Zelensky tried to trick the world in WWIII. He should be removed...imprisoned, and maybe worse.

Zelen$ky is a world class criminal

 

[basquebromance]

 

[Ringo]

 

[Rust_Cohle]

Read the discussion before commenting, he called me and Biden Nazis.

And I linked an example why cause that's who you support YOU IDIOT

 

[Rust_Cohle]

I will repeat the question - who did US and Ukraine invade here?

Answer - NO ONE.

This was an elective invasion by Russians. THAT is who first and foremost started the war dummy.

No dummy who started the war goes all the way back to the fall of the USSR and failed decisions all the way up to today. Try learning history you absolute melon

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'll give you credit: At least you were able to name Russia as having soemthing to do with this war unlike that other moron.

But I have a much more elegant explanaiton:

Little Imperialist wanna-be Putin wanted to go grab some land and he did. Grabbed some in Georgia in 2008, grabbed Ukrainian Crimea in 2014 and when separatists in eastern Ukraine he was arming failed to start an all out civil war he moved his army in to finish the job directly..

The rest is tools like you eating up Kremlin bullshit and calling it ice cream.

Russia NEVER had any emminent security concern, nobody in their wildest dreams had any interest in crossing over into their nuke packed swamp. Nope, the biggest threat to Russian regime was "brother countries" on their borders god fobid prospering as open democracies.

Thanks for the credit, I suppose. From the article I linked:

”The intensity of Russia's antipathy to the expansion of NATO toward their border, and Ukraine in particular, was accentuated in a 2008 report by Burns—at that time U.S. ambassador to the Russian Federation—to Bush II Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice: "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests."”

Seems interesting that they would make such a claim if, as you say, there were no concerns. I, personally, can see why Russia would have a concern with a hostile military alliance right at its border, just as I could see why the U.S., where I happen to live, would have the same concern if the situation were reversed.

Obama knew this too. From an interview with Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic:

”Obama’s theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.

“The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do,” he said.”

And later on:

“…People respond based on what their imperatives are, and if it’s really important to somebody, and it’s not that important to us, they know that, and we know that,” he said. “There are ways to deter, but it requires you to be very clear ahead of time about what is worth going to war for and what is not. Now, if there is somebody in this town that would claim that we would consider going to war with Russia over Crimea and eastern Ukraine, they should speak up and be very clear about it. The idea that talking tough or engaging in some military action that is tangential to that particular area is somehow going to influence the decision making of Russia or China is contrary to all the evidence we have seen over the last 50 years.””

The Obama Doctrine

The U.S. president talks through his hardest decisions about America’s role in the world.

www.theatlantic.com

So you saying they had no concern, or maybe your point is that their concern was not legitimate, is not credible. Nobody agrees with you. And if the Warsaw Pact existed, and Canada was considering joining, you certainly wouldn’t be alright with it. And you’d be right to be concerned.

But you also left out some key facts in your timeline. Again, from the first article:

”In 2014 the United States assisted, if not outright directed, a coup d'état against an elected government in Ukraine because that government wanted friendly relations with Russia—a larger neighbor with a shared history stretching back centuries. The Deep State could not tolerate that friendship. An infamous leaked call between then Assistant Secretary of State Nuland and former U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt discussing helping "midwife" the February 2014 revolution can be heard here. University of Chicago Professor John Mearsheimer gave a 2015 lecture in which he warned about the problems and dangers wrought by the 2014 U.S.-engineered Ukraine crisis.”

Also highly recommend this article by Mearsheimer on the subject, though it’s behind a paywall now.

Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault

The liberal delusions that provoked Putin.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Regardless, of course Russia bears plenty of blame for this war. They invaded Ukraine, after all. Not sure there’s ever been an entirely innocent party in any war ever fought, and certainly not this one. The point, my point anyway, isn’t that Russia bears no responsibility, it’s whether or not this whole debacle was avoidable by not pushing Russia into a corner for the past 30 years.

 

[AntonToo]

Thanks for the credit, I suppose. From the article I linked:

”The intensity of Russia's antipathy to the expansion of NATO toward their border, and Ukraine in particular, was accentuated in a 2008 report by Burns—at that time U.S. ambassador to the Russian Federation—to Bush II Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice: "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests."”

Seems interesting that they would make such a claim if, as you say, there were no concerns. I, personally, can see why Russia would have a concern with a hostile military alliance right at its border, just as I could see why the U.S., where I happen to live, would have the same concern if the situation were reversed.

Obama knew this too. From an interview with Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic:

”Obama’s theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.

“The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do,” he said.”

And later on:

“…People respond based on what their imperatives are, and if it’s really important to somebody, and it’s not that important to us, they know that, and we know that,” he said. “There are ways to deter, but it requires you to be very clear ahead of time about what is worth going to war for and what is not. Now, if there is somebody in this town that would claim that we would consider going to war with Russia over Crimea and eastern Ukraine, they should speak up and be very clear about it. The idea that talking tough or engaging in some military action that is tangential to that particular area is somehow going to influence the decision making of Russia or China is contrary to all the evidence we have seen over the last 50 years.””

The Obama Doctrine

The U.S. president talks through his hardest decisions about America’s role in the world.

www.theatlantic.com

So you saying they had no concern, or maybe your point is that their concern was not legitimate, is not credible. Nobody agrees with you. And if the Warsaw Pact existed, and Canada was considering joining, you certainly wouldn’t be alright with it. And you’d be right to be concerned.

But you also left out some key facts in your timeline. Again, from the first article:

”In 2014 the United States assisted, if not outright directed, a coup d'état against an elected government in Ukraine because that government wanted friendly relations with Russia—a larger neighbor with a shared history stretching back centuries. The Deep State could not tolerate that friendship. An infamous leaked call between then Assistant Secretary of State Nuland and former U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt discussing helping "midwife" the February 2014 revolution can be heard here. University of Chicago Professor John Mearsheimer gave a 2015 lecture in which he warned about the problems and dangers wrought by the 2014 U.S.-engineered Ukraine crisis.”

Also highly recommend this article by Mearsheimer on the subject, though it’s behind a paywall now.

Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault

The liberal delusions that provoked Putin.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Regardless, of course Russia bears plenty of blame for this war. They invaded Ukraine, after all. Not sure there’s ever been an entirely innocent party in any war ever fought, and certainly not this one. The point, my point anyway, isn’t that Russia bears no responsibility, it’s whether or not this whole debacle was avoidable by not pushing Russia into a corner for the past 30 years.

Ukraine was at least a decade away from joining NATO. They did not meet criteria and America said as much.

Sweden and Finland (2000 mile border with Russia) had no interest in joining NATO.

Then Russia started the war of choice under bullshit pretenses and is accomplishing exactly opposite of their geo-political goals.

NATO is quickly expanding. Russian economy is fucked as far as the eye can see, their prime workforce is running off west or is being used to fertilize Ukraine, their sphere of influence shriveled overnight.

Or as Trump called it - very smart .