2020 and the National Debt

[ElmerMudd]

If that did happen, China would lose a lot of money on the US debt. Plus, many of the Chinese billionaires are heavily invested in the US. One benefit of global markets is countries have vested interests in other countries doing well.
When China becomes the largest consuming market place in the world it will provide great opportunity for US companies. Isolationism is short sighted.

Naivete is short-sighted, not isolationism. Maybe you should listen to the Joint Chief's warnings. You apparently are a globalist only worried about the billionaires wealth. That was the last few decades' US policy, move jobs and factories to China. When the wolf is at the door, don't come crying to the middle-class to protect your wealth.
China Poses Largest Long-Term Threat to U.S., DOD Policy Chief Says > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Story

whacked out paranoia. Fear drives people to isolate themselves. Fear drives countries to isolate themselves. only thing you have to fear is fear its self.
The answer is to work to solve what you fear not to let fear force you to withdraw. It takes strength to not let fear overwhelm you.

You can't have read this article to post that nonsense. Here it is again and read all of it this time. Its not very long. The US and the rest of the world are "rules-based" China is not, if we keep letting them get away with IP theft they will dominate. The article seems to support Trump's "enforced rules-based" competition.
China Poses Largest Long-Term Threat to U.S., DOD Policy Chief Says > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Story

I did read the article and it reaffirms everything I said about fear. Facing the China of the future we must be driven by resolve and actions not fear and isolation. The author of the article basically reaffirms that. As we isolate ourselves from the rest of the world, China is becoming stronger in the world by reaching out and helping more countries. They are doing what the US has done in the past to secure allies and increase their world power.

Ok, lets focus on the sentence we both semi-agree on:
"China is becoming stronger in the world by reaching out and helping more countries. They are doing what the US has done in the past to secure allies and increase their world power"

1. Is China helping other countries or getting their hooks in?
2. Do you really think that China's benevolence to other countries is exactly like what the US has done in the past?
3. Do you believe that China is a "rules-based" country where the rule of law governs their economy, and they never cheat or break the rules?
4. Do you trust China in business deals to always be fair?
5. Do you believe that China spies on everyone and steals whatever they can?

1. Is China helping other countries or getting their hooks in? I think they are trying to get their hooks in. The US has been a more altruistic country but we provided help with the idea of what we would get in return
2. Do you really think that China's benevolence to other countries is exactly like what the US has done in the past?
Per my answer above not as sincere but there are similarities.
3. Do you believe that China is a "rules-based" country where the rule of law governs their economy, and they never cheat or break the rules?
They have turned into a capitalist dictatorship where they make laws to help their businesses. Yes, they cheat and break global laws.
4. Do you trust China in business deals to always be fair?
You cannot trust China to make a fair deal. You have to do everything you can to make sure they are fair. I would trust China to make a fair deal as much as I would Trump; not much.
5. Do you believe that China spies on everyone and steals whatever they can?
China spys on many and steals intellectual properties. But as they are caught doing so they must pay a price. They have already cut back on intellectual property theft because of consequences. The focus of sanctions on China should be more on stopping intellectual properties than tariffs on goods, in my opinion. Going forward with China investing in technology advances more than US, especially in AI; the US is going to have to start stealing intellectual properties from China.

 

[JoeB131]

Yipes. Going with a budget is something Democrats just don't cotton to. Where there's pots of money, there's lots of people chasing the rainbow.

Sorry Charlie, yer tuna's not good enough. So we're puttin' you back in the water. <giggle>

Hey, dumb-bitch, most of that 23 Trillion was run up under Republicans, not Democrats.

Last guy to post a surplus was Bill Clinton.

 

[kyzr]

Yipes. Going with a budget is something Democrats just don't cotton to. Where there's pots of money, there's lots of people chasing the rainbow.

Sorry Charlie, yer tuna's not good enough. So we're puttin' you back in the water. <giggle>

Hey, dumb-bitch, most of that 23 Trillion was run up under Republicans, not Democrats.

Last guy to post a surplus was Bill Clinton.

BTW, that last surplus was due to Newt not Bill. The House sets the Budget, the president signs it.
So about Nancy's Budget Deficit? Why can't the democrats be more responsible with the Budget?

See pages 33-35 for the optimistic economic growth assumptions, but especially the bottom of page-34:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BUDGET-2020-BUD/pdf/BUDGET-2020-BUD-24.pdf

 

[JoeB131]

BTW, that last surplus was due to Newt not Bill.

Um... no, it was because Bill made the rich pay their fair share. The minute he was gone, we went back to deficits, tax cuts for the rich and putting wars on a credit card.

How's that working out for us again?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The Conservative values of small govt. and balancing the budget have been tossed in the trash can by the current crop of Trumpublicans. Now both sides spend wildly..and the only argument is what they wish to spend on.

As many have stated in this thread..a real effort to pay down the debt would appall the voters..on both sides. Trimming entitlements would enrage Democrats. Trimming military spending..raising the tax rate on the wealthy..in fact, raising the tax rate on everybody, would enrage the Republicans. Eliminating the EIC--aggressively pursuing those who owe the Govt. money--eliminating tax credits to business...ending farm subsidies--firing about 1/3 of govt. employees...all that and more would be necessary.

Any politician campaigning on THAT platform--would be laughed out of the country!

 

[kyzr]

BTW, that last surplus was due to Newt not Bill.

Um... no, it was because Bill made the rich pay their fair share. The minute he was gone, we went back to deficits, tax cuts for the rich and putting wars on a credit card.

How's that working out for us again?

You are correct, I had to research it. Bill made the top rate pay more, and Newt cut some spending.
It worked great then, lets hope they do that again.
RELEASE: The Real Heroes of the 1998 Budget Surplus: Clinton and His Economy - Center for American Progress
Take President Clinton’s 1993 budget bill—officially known as the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. OBRA, which mainly raised taxes on wealthy people but also raised the gas tax, extended limits on discretionary spending and cut back on some mandatory spending, was signed into law on August 10, 1993. Just five months prior, the Congressional Budget Office projected a 1998 deficit of $360 billion. One month after the bill passed, the CBO’s new estimate of the 1988 deficit was down to $200 billion. The CBO explained the dramatic improvement this way: “For the first time in two and one-half years, the deficit projections have taken a decided turn for the better… The reconciliation act deserves most of the credit for the improvement over the long run.” Indeed, of the $160 billion improvement from March to September of that year, CBO directly credited OBRA with $143 billion. In fact, OBRA turns out to have been the single largest contributor to the 1998 surplus.

 

[kyzr]

The Conservative values of small govt. and balancing the budget have been tossed in the trash can by the current crop of Trumpublicans. Now both sides spend wildly..and the only argument is what they wish to spend on.

As many have stated in this thread..a real effort to pay down the debt would appall the voters..on both sides. Trimming entitlements would enrage Democrats. Trimming military spending..raising the tax rate on the wealthy..in fact, raising the tax rate on everybody, would enrage the Republicans. Eliminating the EIC--aggressively pursuing those who owe the Govt. money--eliminating tax credits to business...ending farm subsidies--firing about 1/3 of govt. employees...all that and more would be necessary.

Any politician campaigning on THAT platform--would be laughed out of the country!

You are correct, but since all that needs to be done, the only way it would work is if they hired a "Grace Commission II" to outline what needs to be done to get out of the fiscal mess we're in, and then do as they recommend.

 

[the other mike]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

The numbers are too staggering for average voters to grasp so, no.
The debt's been spiralling up since around 1980 ( with a slight slowdown during the 90's tech boom economy) especially since 9/11.

 

[JoeB131]

You are correct, I had to research it. Bill made the top rate pay more, and Newt cut some spending.
It worked great then, lets hope they do that again.

Here's a chart of Federal spending, including the 1990's. Please show me where Newt cut the spending.. because it kept going up through the 1990's before spiking in the Oughts.

 

[whitehall]

How's this for a choice...."Only important during republican administrations". You almost gotta laugh that the democrat majority in congress spends the money (when they get off their dead asses) and they blame the debt on the republican president.

 

[ElmerMudd]

How's this for a choice...."Only important during republican administrations". You almost gotta laugh that the democrat majority in congress spends the money (when they get off their dead asses) and they blame the debt on the republican president.

In today's world the Democrats and Republicans are equally responsible for the debt.

The fiscally responsible Republican party is gone.

Politicians on both sides of the aisle get re-elected by giving their constituents more than the US can afford.

Everyone of us get more from the government than the government can afford if we live long enough.

 

[kyzr]

You are correct, I had to research it. Bill made the top rate pay more, and Newt cut some spending.
It worked great then, lets hope they do that again.

Here's a chart of Federal spending, including the 1990's. Please show me where Newt cut the spending.. because it kept going up through the 1990's before spiking in the Oughts.

Here is a summary of the agreement between Newt and Clinton that gave us a surplus:
(What killed the Budget surplus was 9/11 and the un-paid for war spending that followed.)

Clinton Signed His Balanced Budget Agreement with Gingrich Into Law On This Date
The package included two bills, the Bipartisan Budget Act of 1997 and the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, which contained reforms to the tax code, Medicaid, and Medicare which taken together brought the federal budget into balance. Both were introduced by then-House Budget Committee Chairman John Kasich (R-OH).

The Balanced Budget Act aimed to save $116.4 billion over five years and $393.8 billion over 10 years. It included the following key provisions:

• Medicaid Reforms: It limited growth rates in payments to hospitals, physicians, nursing homes, and community health centers; and capped federal matching payments to states for disproportionate share hospitals.
• Children’s Health: It created the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) under Medicaid as an optional block grant program states could participate in to boost insurance rates for uninsured, low-income children who weren’t eligible for Medicaid.
• Medicare Reforms: It created Medicare+Choice (which was later renamed Medicare Advantage); reduced payments to Medicare managed care plans to slow their growth rate; and increased Medicare premiums while reducing co-pays and deductibles.

The Taxpayer Relief Act also introduced included the following key provisions:

• Child Tax Credit: A tax credit of $400 (and later $500) was available for each child under age 17 and phased out for higher-income families.
• Retirement & Education Savings Accounts: It created Roth IRAs and made the retirement accounts and education savings through the Hope Scholarship Credit & Lifetime Learning Credit.
• Capital Gains & Estate Taxes: The sale of a personal residence was exempt from capital gains taxes up to a certain threshold ($500k for married tax filers & $250k for individuals). An estate tax exemption was gradually increased from $600k to $1 million.

Both bills passed Congress with bipartisan support:

• The Balanced Budget Act passed the House on a 346-85 vote with 52 Democrats & 32 Republicans opposed, while the Senate approved it on an 85-15 vote with 13 Republicans & two Democrats opposed.
• The Taxpayer Relief Act cleared the House on a 389-43 vote with opposition from 41 Democrats, a Republican, and an Independent; while the Senate vote passed 92-8 with only Democrats opposed.

 

[skye]

I just voted unimportant.

 

[kyzr]

I just voted unimportant.

OK, why do you think that paying $400b a year in Debt interest is unimportant?

Please read these links because the Debt IS important.
Its like if your credit card debt becomes too large and the interest takes all your money.

$23 Trillion Dollars: Our Insane National Debt Could Lead to America's Ruin

Real US debt levels could be 2,000% of economy, a Wall Street report suggests

 

[JoeB131]

Here is a summary of the agreement between Newt and Clinton that gave us a surplus:
(What killed the Budget surplus was 9/11 and the un-paid for war spending that followed.)

No, what killed it was that Bush gave a huge fucking tax cut to billionaires...

 

[kyzr]

I just voted unimportant.

Sorry, I just re-read the question, you're right.
Even though the Debt is important no one is going to run on raising taxes and cutting spending.
So the Debt probably isn't important in 2020, but it should be.

 

[kyzr]

Here is a summary of the agreement between Newt and Clinton that gave us a surplus:
(What killed the Budget surplus was 9/11 and the un-paid for war spending that followed.)

No, what killed it was that Bush gave a huge fucking tax cut to billionaires...

It was probably both reasons, unfunded war spending AND the tax cuts.

 

[beautress]

The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.
The National Debt as of 01/02/2019 is $23,151,298,000,000.00 as of CST 3:54 pm.

Just trying to keep up. Congress overspent another 9 billion dollars in 5 days.

And they're not even in session.

 

[g5000]

Yipes. Going with a budget is something Democrats just don't cotton to. Where there's pots of money, there's lots of people chasing the rainbow.

Sorry Charlie, yer tuna's not good enough. So we're puttin' you back in the water. <giggle>

Hey, dumb-bitch, most of that 23 Trillion was run up under Republicans, not Democrats.

Last guy to post a surplus was Bill Clinton.

BTW, that last surplus was due to Newt not Bill. The House sets the Budget, the president signs it.
So about Nancy's Budget Deficit? Why can't the democrats be more responsible with the Budget?

See pages 33-35 for the optimistic economic growth assumptions, but especially the bottom of page-34:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BUDGET-2020-BUD/pdf/BUDGET-2020-BUD-24.pdf

It's funny how you blamed Obama for every penny of the debt run up on his watch, and now you try to NOT blame Republican Presidents for their debt.

Example:

Obama added about $10-trillion to the Debt

For most of Obama's presidency, he had a Republican Congress.


How DO you stand the stench of your own hypocrisy?

 

[g5000]

Look in the mirror.

There is the person responsible for the ever rising debt.

I'm sick and tired of everyone pointing fingers at the "other guys" for the debt.

EVERYONE is to blame.

Just look at my signature for an example of just how mentally ill Trumptards have become.