$3.5T Not As Big As You Might Think

[Toddsterpatriot]

You mean the SALT cap that hurts the middle class and not the wealthy?

Prove it. Post your specifics.

 

[Lesh]

Prove it. Post your specifics.

Gottheimer noted that, according to New Jersey-based newspaper The Star-Ledger, a full reinstatement of the deduction would provide tax relief to nearly a third of the Garden State’s families, close to 3 million people.

“Eighty percent of those folks make $216,000 or less,” he said. “Those are our teachers and firefighters. In high cost states like ours, this is about middle class families being able to afford New Jersey or not.”

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Gottheimer noted that, according to New Jersey-based newspaper The Star-Ledger, a full reinstatement of the deduction would provide tax relief to nearly a third of the Garden State’s families, close to 3 million people.

“Eighty percent of those folks make $216,000 or less,” he said. “Those are our teachers and firefighters. In high cost states like ours, this is about middle class families being able to afford New Jersey or not.”

What were your SALT payments?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Supposedly a Jefferson quote.

Yeah, it was Jefferson. I dunno why I was thinking of George.

Good catch, Toddster.

 

[Care4all]

tax cuts grow business which greatly increases tax revenue

Not really true....for the 2017 corporate tax cut bill passed.

Did the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act Pay for Itself in 2018?

Were you surprised that the 2017 tax overhaul, commonly referred as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), did not increase revenues in 2018? Probably...

www.taxpolicycenter.org

 

[Lesh]

In fact tax cuts rarely even pay for themselves

 

[Smokin' OP]

And the democrats whine about the debt/deficit when they are not in office. Or did you miss that the last 4 years?

NO, democrats whined about Trump's tab for golfing.
Spending almost a year golfing. (307)
A little over a month just on trips to Mar-A-Lago. (36)
Trips to Bedminster. (27)
Trump charging the secret service for rooms and golf carts at his resorts.

"I'm going to be working for you, I'm not going to have time to go play golf,"

Paying for Trump's vanity wall, Mexico was supposed to pay for.

 

[Smokin' OP]

tax cuts grow business which greatly increases tax revenue

Sure they do, the 40-year-old republican lie.
They also pay for themselves too. LOL.

Business grows businesses.

April 4, 2019
U.S. corporations spent a record amount buying back their own shares last year, using 2017′s tax-cut windfall to reward shareholders rather than to invest or expand their businesses.

Companies in the S&P 500 spent $806 billion on stock buybacks in 2018, blowing away the previous record of nearly $590 billion set in 2007. The information technology and financial service sectors were the biggest spenders, with Apple leading the pack. When share prices plunged in the fourth quarter it only encouraged companies to spend more, setting a fourth consecutive quarterly record for buybacks.

Hmmm, 2007?

Another tax cut.

January 8, 2007
President Bush's tax cuts offered the biggest benefits to families in the highest income categories, according to a study cited in a published report Monday.

Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any other group, citing a Congressional study by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

 

[CowboyTed]

Exactly

$2.5T spread over 10 years is not nearly that scary.

Remember how "scary" the $1T ACA was supposed to be?

Turned out...not so much

The big thing here is this is mainly investment... This means there is projects which will yield an underlining strength in the economy...

Let me give an example...
Government investment in education: For every dollar invested, it yields 9 dollars in extra income tax over the life of the person...

Tax Cuts: The Trump Administration admitted that the tax cuts would not pay for themselves.
--------

Democrats with this infrastructure spending is investing in America to yield a return (better educated, better roads(lower transport costs), better Healthcare (healthier employees) .....)

Trump tax cuts did very little for the economy and if it did it was to just over heat it... Trump told us every day how great the economy was... It was in a boom and in booms you lengthen the cycle and prepare for a recession... How? Raise taxes, that way you are slowing the economy (riding the wave of the boom) and hopefully have Deficit under control so you can cut taxes in recession...
Trump increased borrowing for day to day living, tax cuts are that... It is a complete myth (Voodoo Economics) that tax cuts pay for themselves, they are even poor at stimulating the economy... Basic money multiplier economics taught in the first year of economics explains that..

 

[CowboyTed]

And the democrats whine about the debt/deficit when they are not in office. Or did you miss that the last 4 years?

The concern is about the increasing of the operational deficit.. That is borrowing to meet day to day expenses... He then further increased this deficit by implementing tax cuts, this made hole even deeper...

By the time Jan '20 Trump had doubled the Deficit he got from Obama while telling everyone the economy was doing great.. This is the equivalent of business borrowing to pay wages and keep the lights on while CEO is out sponsoring vanity projects and telling everyone the company it going great...

Democrats are indeed borrowing a lot of money but are doing it to invest in the US economy and people... This Capital Expenditure, this is the equivalent of borrowing money to invest in a machine to increase productivity and/or lower costs... Not as exciting but way more vital...

 

[pknopp]

True but only ONE party are self-described "conservatives", that consistently, whine about spending and the debt/deficit, when they are not in office, they have done it since they lost to Clinton, decades ago.

I'm not sure being the party "willing to spend recklessly" is much better than being the hypocrisy party.

 

[Smokin' OP]

I'm not sure being the party "willing to spend recklessly" is much better than being the hypocrisy party.

ONE party spending $$$ on Americans, as a whole, isn't reckless, it's an investment, on the future.
Some of it is reckless, but for the most part, it helps everyone.

People who need the assistance usually spend it, which helps a wide array of companies with more business.
Some don't, just make themselves richer.

 

[pknopp]

ONE party spending $$$ on Americans, as a whole, isn't reckless, it's an investment, on the future.
Some of it is reckless, but for the most part, it helps everyone.

People who need the assistance usually spend it, which helps a wide array of companies with more business.
Some don't, just make themselves richer.

OK....so some of it is reckless. We shouldn't accept that. Reckless spending falls into the laps of future generations.

If you want to spend it, argue for it, pass it but pay for it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The big thing here is this is mainly investment... This means there is projects which will yield an underlining strength in the economy...

Let me give an example...
Government investment in education: For every dollar invested, it yields 9 dollars in extra income tax over the life of the person...

Tax Cuts: The Trump Administration admitted that the tax cuts would not pay for themselves.
--------

Democrats with this infrastructure spending is investing in America to yield a return (better educated, better roads(lower transport costs), better Healthcare (healthier employees) .....)

Trump tax cuts did very little for the economy and if it did it was to just over heat it... Trump told us every day how great the economy was... It was in a boom and in booms you lengthen the cycle and prepare for a recession... How? Raise taxes, that way you are slowing the economy (riding the wave of the boom) and hopefully have Deficit under control so you can cut taxes in recession...
Trump increased borrowing for day to day living, tax cuts are that... It is a complete myth (Voodoo Economics) that tax cuts pay for themselves, they are even poor at stimulating the economy... Basic money multiplier economics taught in the first year of economics explains that..

Let me give an example...
Government investment in education: For every dollar invested, it yields 9 dollars in extra income tax over the life of the person...

Spending on the Chicago Public School system refutes your 9 dollar claim.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

U.S. corporations spent a record amount buying back their own shares last year, using 2017′s tax-cut windfall to reward shareholders rather than to invest or expand their businesses.

Companies in the S&P 500 spent $806 billion on stock buybacks in 2018, blowing away the previous record of nearly $590 billion set in 2007.

That's the worst. I hate it when my stocks go up.
And then the capital gains taxes that get paid, just awful.

 

[Papageorgio]

That wasn't the rich. They did well with Trump's tax cuts.

You're talking about middle class folks who lost tax deductions. Cost be $2500/year. I am by no means rich

I'm middle class and my taxes went down by a bit. I do realize that many of those cuts went away gradually but they did not go up.

 

[Papageorgio]

Lesh...look it up for yourself and learn something...Trump cut taxes where taxes needed to be cut...Biden is cutting taxes and fees for his rich friends and donors...please take the time to check it out for yourself....

The rich did cuts and so did the middle class under Trump, but his tax cuts added to the debt. If you want to cut taxes then cut spending. My biggest gripe with Trump was this move.

 

[Papageorgio]

You're just a tax whiner

No he isn't, he is being fiscally responsible and this $3.5 trillion would have been fine had we been paying off our debt. This would result in a stronger financial position in the world and help control inflation.

 

[Smokin' OP]

OK....so some of it is reckless. We shouldn't accept that. Reckless spending falls into the laps of future generations.

If you want to spend it, argue for it, pass it but pay for it.

Yes it is, usually an amendment buried in the bill, that never makes the headlines.

 

[Smokin' OP]

That's the worst. I hate it when my stocks go up.
And then the capital gains taxes that get paid, just awful.

Yeah, especially when the orange, grifter named it The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
Republicans want to 'punish' corporations by giving them another tax cut.