47th Anniversary of Attack on Liberty

[georgephillip]

Accident?

About as much an accident as the 9/11 attacks.

"ATTACK ON THE USS LIBERTY
REALPOLITIK GONE HAYWIRE"

http://www.gtr5.com/commentary/GetTRDoc%5b1%5d.pdf

911 could be another example of Realpolitik Gone Haywire.
It seems certain to me any government that lied about one would lie about both.

 

[Indofred]

I'm not so sure a sailor on a ship has the best view on whether they were misidentified.

Answer this one.
If the American sailors, under heavy fire from the Israelis, could identify the aircraft and boats as Israeli, why couldn't the Jews tell the difference between two ships that look nothing like each other.

 

[Indeependent]

I have two questions...
[1] If it was an attack, what what the motive?
[2] How did Israel, in 1967, have the ability to effortlessly destroy the world's most state of the art vessel with seemingly little effort?

 

[Indofred]

A tragic accident

Accident?

The Liberty's Captain, his First Officer, and every surviving member of the crew insist that attack was clearly deliberate.

They were there. They experienced it. They know the difference between an accident and a deliberate attack. They have no reason to lie -- and they say it was deliberate.

But you say it was an accident.

Why?

Because he puts Israel ahead of America?

Regardless of my distaste of Israel's disgusting track record of mass murder, I like to look at things objectively.
I'm hardly a fan of American spy ships either but, in this case, I have to believe the reports from the American sailors.
They report close contact and easy view of Israeli markings but the Israeli's claim they didn't notice the ship was American.
The Americans were under heavy fire, the Israelis had no incoming fire to speak of, if any.
It simply doesn't fit.
One lot has to be telling lies and, given the noted Israeli overfly of the ship before the murders, it really has to be the Israelis.

 

[Indofred]

I have two questions...
[1] If it was an attack, what what the motive?
[2] How did Israel, in 1967, have the ability to effortlessly destroy the world's most state of the art vessel with seemingly little effort?

Sink it and blame Egypt to draw America into the war on Israel's side.
It's easy to attack an unarmed/lightly armed target if you have a load of firepower.

Any more daft questions?

 

[georgephillip]

I have two questions...
[1] If it was an attack, what what the motive?
[2] How did Israel, in 1967, have the ability to effortlessly destroy the world's most state of the art vessel with seemingly little effort?

Liberty had four .50 caliber machine guns to repel borders and that was the extent of her armament. The one torpedo that struck Liberty hit a strut in the hull simple by chance. Had the torpedo struck a few feet on either side, Liberty would've been cut in half and sunk like a stone. There have been a couple of motives advanced: 1. Liberty picked up Israeli intel planning an attack on the Syrian-controlled Golan Heights AFTER Syria had withdrawn from the fight. 2. Hundreds of Egyptian POWS in the Sinai had been forced to dig a mass grave after which the IDF murdered every last one of them. The motive will never be known without a full public investigation into all aspects of what happened 47 years ago today.

 

[Indeependent]

I have two questions...
[1] If it was an attack, what what the motive?
[2] How did Israel, in 1967, have the ability to effortlessly destroy the world's most state of the art vessel with seemingly little effort?

Sink it and blame Egypt to draw America into the war on Israel's side.
It's easy to attack an unarmed/lightly armed target if you have a load of firepower.

Any more daft questions?

Focus...
Why was a state of the art vessel so lightly armed in a hostile area?

 

[MikeK]

I have two questions...
[1] If it was an attack, what what the motive?

(Excerpt)
The Johnson administration had given the green light for Israel to attack Egypt and only Egypt. It was understood that the IDF would have to respond to Jordanian intervention – if it happened, but on no account was Israel to seek to widen the war for the purpose of taking Jordanian or Syrian territory. Apart from President Johnson’s public statement that he was as firmly committed as his predecessors had been to the “political independence and territorial integrity of all the nations in that area”, Washington’s fear was what could happen if the Israelis occupied Syrian territory. If they did there was a possibility of Soviet intervention (for face-saving reasons). Soviet leaders could just about live with the Egyptians being smashed by the IDF but not the Syrians too. Through the CIA the Johnson administration was aware of the IDF’s secret agreement with the Syrian regime. (As revealed in the previous chapter of my book, Syria, in the countdown to war, agreed to put on only a token show of fighting when Israel attacked Egypt). So it, the Johnson administration, was reasonably confident that the Syrians would not seek to widen the war by engaging the Israelis in any serious way. The name of the U.S. counter-intelligence game was therefore preventing Israel from attacking Syria. That was the Liberty’s mission.

Israel?s Attack on USS Liberty ? The Full Story | Veterans Today

(Close)

[2] How did Israel, in 1967, have the ability to effortlessly destroy the world's most state of the art vessel with seemingly little effort?

Are you saying you doubt it actually happened?

The answer to your question is the attack was totally unexpected because the American sailors believed Israel was a friendly protectorate.

Read Lt/Cmdr Ennes' book. Assault On The Liberty.

 

[Indofred]

The answer to your question is the attack was totally unexpected because the American sailors believed Israel was a friendly protectorate.

Many years in the future, historians will look at the situation in the middle east and wonder why America was so fucking stupid.

 

[georgephillip]

I have two questions...
[1] If it was an attack, what what the motive?

(Excerpt)
The Johnson administration had given the green light for Israel to attack Egypt and only Egypt. It was understood that the IDF would have to respond to Jordanian intervention – if it happened, but on no account was Israel to seek to widen the war for the purpose of taking Jordanian or Syrian territory. Apart from President Johnson’s public statement that he was as firmly committed as his predecessors had been to the “political independence and territorial integrity of all the nations in that area”, Washington’s fear was what could happen if the Israelis occupied Syrian territory. If they did there was a possibility of Soviet intervention (for face-saving reasons). Soviet leaders could just about live with the Egyptians being smashed by the IDF but not the Syrians too. Through the CIA the Johnson administration was aware of the IDF’s secret agreement with the Syrian regime. (As revealed in the previous chapter of my book, Syria, in the countdown to war, agreed to put on only a token show of fighting when Israel attacked Egypt). So it, the Johnson administration, was reasonably confident that the Syrians would not seek to widen the war by engaging the Israelis in any serious way. The name of the U.S. counter-intelligence game was therefore preventing Israel from attacking Syria. That was the Liberty’s mission.

Israel?s Attack on USS Liberty ? The Full Story | Veterans Today

(Close)

[2] How did Israel, in 1967, have the ability to effortlessly destroy the world's most state of the art vessel with seemingly little effort?

Are you saying you doubt it actually happened?

The answer to your question is the attack was totally unexpected because the American sailors believed Israel was a friendly protectorate.

Read Lt/Cmdr Ennes' book. Assault On The Liberty.

"When the Liberty was ordered to the Middle East, everybody who needed to know did know that the Israelis would have only a few days in which to smash the Egyptians – because the Security Council would demand a quick end to the fighting and Israel would have to stop when it was shown the international red card.

"Which meant that when Israel went to war with Egypt, it would be assigning the bulk of its armour to the Egyptian front. The point?

"If Israel then decided to attack Syria, it would have to re-deploy armour, very quickly, from the Egyptian front to the Syrian front.

"The orders for any such redeployment would be given by wireless – from Dayan’s Ministry of Defence in Tel Aviv to the commanders in the field and they, naturally, would talk to each other.

"If there was such radio chatter, the Liberty would pick it up and pass it urgently to the NSA in Washington.

"President Johnson would then demand that the Israelis abort their intended attack on Syria. So long as the Liberty was on station and functioning, the U.S. would have some control of Israel.

"In short the Liberty was the Johnson administration’s insurance policy.

"It was there to prevent Israel’s hawks going over the top and, on a worst-case scenario, provoking Soviet intervention and possibly World War III. (One could have said then, and one could say with even more point today, that with the Zionist state as its friend the U.S. does not need enemies.)

"From Dayan’s perspective… Before he could order an invasion of Syria for the purpose of grabbing the Golan Heights for keeps, the Liberty had to be put out of business.

"In what follows it is important to keep two things in mind..."

Israel?s Attack on USS Liberty ? The Full Story | Veterans Today

 

[georgephillip]

The answer to your question is the attack was totally unexpected because the American sailors believed Israel was a friendly protectorate.

Many years in the future, historians will look at the situation in the middle east and wonder why America was so fucking stupid.

"The Liberty now had no engines, no rudder and no power. And was taking in water.

"Nine of its officers and crew were known dead; another 25 were missing and correctly presumed to be dead (in the communications room that had taken the torpedo); and 171 were wounded.

"Those who were wounded but not incapacitated joined with the other 90 who had survived unscathed and set about collecting bodies, dressing wounds, fighting fires, stringing lights and hand-operated phone sets, repairing the engines and, above all, trying to keep the Liberty afloat.

"While they worked on those tasks, two large Israeli SA-321 Super Frelon helicopters put in an appearance and slowly circled the stricken ship.

"Both were clearly marked with a large Star of David. A rescue mission? No. (Presumably there had not been time to paint out the Stars of David because the attack was not going according to plan. The Liberty was supposed to have been sunk by now).

"The cargo bay doors were open and Liberty crewmen could see that both helicopters were crammed with armed troops (Israeli Special Forces). And a machine gun was mounted in each of the cargo bays.

"On the Liberty Captain McGonagle gave the order he deemed to be appropriate. 'Standby to repel borders!'[xiii]

"As reported by Ennes, the next voice was that of an ordinary sailor, hysterical but logical and probably speaking for many. 'They’ve come to finish us off!'[xiv]"

Israel?s Attack on USS Liberty ? The Full Story | Veterans Today

 

[Indofred]

The answer to your question is the attack was totally unexpected because the American sailors believed Israel was a friendly protectorate.

Many years in the future, historians will look at the situation in the middle east and wonder why America was so fucking stupid.

"The Liberty now had no engines, no rudder and no power. And was taking in water.

"Nine of its officers and crew were known dead; another 25 were missing and correctly presumed to be dead (in the communications room that had taken the torpedo); and 171 were wounded.

"Those who were wounded but not incapacitated joined with the other 90 who had survived unscathed and set about collecting bodies, dressing wounds, fighting fires, stringing lights and hand-operated phone sets, repairing the engines and, above all, trying to keep the Liberty afloat.

"While they worked on those tasks, two large Israeli SA-321 Super Frelon helicopters put in an appearance and slowly circled the stricken ship.

"Both were clearly marked with a large Star of David. A rescue mission? No. (Presumably there had not been time to paint out the Stars of David because the attack was not going according to plan. The Liberty was supposed to have been sunk by now).

"The cargo bay doors were open and Liberty crewmen could see that both helicopters were crammed with armed troops (Israeli Special Forces). And a machine gun was mounted in each of the cargo bays.

"On the Liberty Captain McGonagle gave the order he deemed to be appropriate. 'Standby to repel borders!'[xiii]

"As reported by Ennes, the next voice was that of an ordinary sailor, hysterical but logical and probably speaking for many. 'They’ve come to finish us off!'[xiv]"

Israel?s Attack on USS Liberty ? The Full Story | Veterans Today

Shhh, stop telling the truth; you'll be branded a traitor to Israel, thus unwelcome as a good American.
You MUST support Israel over America, regardless of how many Americans Israel murders.

 

[georgephillip]

Many years in the future, historians will look at the situation in the middle east and wonder why America was so fucking stupid.

"The Liberty now had no engines, no rudder and no power. And was taking in water.

"Nine of its officers and crew were known dead; another 25 were missing and correctly presumed to be dead (in the communications room that had taken the torpedo); and 171 were wounded.

"Those who were wounded but not incapacitated joined with the other 90 who had survived unscathed and set about collecting bodies, dressing wounds, fighting fires, stringing lights and hand-operated phone sets, repairing the engines and, above all, trying to keep the Liberty afloat.

"While they worked on those tasks, two large Israeli SA-321 Super Frelon helicopters put in an appearance and slowly circled the stricken ship.

"Both were clearly marked with a large Star of David. A rescue mission? No. (Presumably there had not been time to paint out the Stars of David because the attack was not going according to plan. The Liberty was supposed to have been sunk by now).

"The cargo bay doors were open and Liberty crewmen could see that both helicopters were crammed with armed troops (Israeli Special Forces). And a machine gun was mounted in each of the cargo bays.

"On the Liberty Captain McGonagle gave the order he deemed to be appropriate. 'Standby to repel borders!'[xiii]

"As reported by Ennes, the next voice was that of an ordinary sailor, hysterical but logical and probably speaking for many. 'They’ve come to finish us off!'[xiv]"

Israel?s Attack on USS Liberty ? The Full Story | Veterans Today

Shhh, stop telling the truth; you'll be branded a traitor to Israel, thus unwelcome as a good American.
You MUST support Israel over America, regardless of how many Americans Israel murders.

"Initially, President Johnson was – as Green put it – determined 'that no U.S. aircraft would be thrust into an adversary role with the IDF, whatever the implication for the struggling U.S.S. Liberty.'

"Initially, and for the usual domestic political reason – fear of offending Zionism – this President was prepared to sacrifice the lives of 286 of his fellow Americans on board the Liberty.

"What was about to happen indicates that for the best part of 30 minutes or so following the political decision to abandon the Liberty and its crew, elements of the U.S. military took on the President and shamed him into changing his mind.

"Their argument would have been to the effect that not going to the assistance of the Liberty was disgraceful and dishonourable in the extreme.

"It is reasonable to assume that this struggle with President Johnson (and those of his advisers he was taking most notice of – those who supported Israel right or wrong) was led initially by the Sixth Fleet’s Commander, Admiral Martin, to the cheers no doubt, of Captain Tully.

"But Martin could not have prevailed without the support of the Chief of Naval Operations and most if not all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff."

Israel?s Attack on USS Liberty ? The Full Story | Veterans Today