48%: The Democratic Party needs to face an ugly reality

[Oddball]

Democrats crowed about the EC in 2012 when Obama won re-election. Then they melted down about it in 2016 when Trump won. Their indignation is totally driven by circumstance.

Why would they crow about it. Obama won the Popular vote handily....

I don't want PV and would never want it regardless of how elections turned out. That would just be tyranny of the majority

And so? As opposed to what, the tyranny of the minority?

I trust the people to get these things right, thank you... You clearly don't.

People like you should not have their votes equal to people like me. We need to change that.

The power of the states' minority vote to obstruct will change. In fact, the NPV will law of the land by 2024.

You you going to pull that off, Fakey Jakey?

The same way that McMullen pulled off Utah in 2016!.....Oh wait.

You are right that 2016 has nothing to do with 2020.

Trump is busily throwing the state away all by himself. If he loses the LDS, who think he is terribly immoral, he can't win.

The voters are waiting for the wink from the First Presidency.

I know an awful lot of Utahans, Jake....Nearly all of them detest Romney for being a fraud like you, more so than Trump being a blowhard.

And morality isn't so much as a popcorn fart to LDS, if they could support a carpetbagging crony corporatist on the take like Orrin Hatch for as long as they did.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Democrats crowed about the EC in 2012 when Obama won re-election. Then they melted down about it in 2016 when Trump won. Their indignation is totally driven by circumstance.

Why would they crow about it. Obama won the Popular vote handily....

I don't want PV and would never want it regardless of how elections turned out. That would just be tyranny of the majority

And so? As opposed to what, the tyranny of the minority?

I trust the people to get these things right, thank you... You clearly don't.

People like you should not have their votes equal to people like me. We need to change that.

The power of the states' minority vote to obstruct will change. In fact, the NPV will law of the land by 2024.

You you going to pull that off, Fakey Jakey?

The same way that McMullen pulled off Utah in 2016!.....Oh wait.

You are right that 2016 has nothing to do with 2020.

Trump is busily throwing the state away all by himself. If he loses the LDS, who think he is terribly immoral, he can't win.

The voters are waiting for the wink from the First Presidency.

I know an awful lot of Utahans, Jake....Nearly all of them detest Romney for being a fraud like you, more so than Trump being a blowhard.

And morality isn't so much as a popcorn fart to LDS, if they could support a carpetbagging crony corporatist on the take like Orrin Hatch for as long as they did.

You just revealed you know nothing about Utah. You don't understand why Romney won so easily in Utah, where he has the status of a moral demi-god. Despite your silly posturing, you clearly do not know Utah at all.

If the FP, who don't like Trump at all and get along with Biden well enough, give the tip off, then it is a done deal.

If AZ, NC, UT, etc., are in play, Trump's in trouble.

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's true.

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Annnnd.... once AGAIN... you speak totally from a left prospective, while pretending to be providing a centered argument.
The crux of your little post is simple:... Stupid fucking people will vote for Trump. Not every one is fucking stupid. The Democrats should be able to attract people who aren't so stupid. But they didn't.

And in your world.... that is an objective question/argument.
Holy cow

It certainly lines up with the evidence. I don't think there's anything particularly smart about voting for Biden, but Trump's anti-intellectualism and confused rhetoric make it pretty hard for intelligent people to sign on. Not saying they don't - lesser-of-two-evils prompts otherwise smart people to do all kinds of idiotic shit (like voting for Biden for example), but it's pretty obvious that the educated elite aren't Trump's base.

There is a big portion of the educated elite are trumps bases despite the fact he is a flaming idiot... they support him because he has more policies that will make them more money. Plain and simple

Biden isn’t there for groundbreaking ideas.His biggest asset is his relationships in congress and ability to unite. People who want our government to start working together instead of fighting like school
Children doing nothing should support Biden

WTF? When has Biden done anything inclusive? The guy is a total divider and hate monger

He has worked with Republicans his whole career. You haven’t paid attention

You mean like the Clarence Thomas hearings where he helped his fellow Dims to smear the man? What has he worked with Republicans to do?

You know many on the left were upset at Biden for not pushing back enough against the republicans and Anita hill. Did you know that?

 

[Mac1958]

I can't see how rational people would choose what the democrats are offering because they don't like Trump as a person.

Once again, your reasoning is flawed because you're not paying attention.

His embarrassing behaviors and the ugly stain that is Trumpism come AFTER the fact that many of us disagree with him on...

.... ready? ....

THE ISSUES.

This really doesn't need to be that complicated. But you need to listen and think a little.

Fine, what is the left offering that people should support? Don't just give a link to a platform. What do you believe working people want that democrats are offering? If it is all about the policies, then what besides higher taxes, energy costs, crime, and condemnation of all white people are democrats offering? Before you bash me for being lazy, your party is not exactly pushing any policy at the moment. None.

Do you realize you're on the internet? Why are you not curious enough to find out for yourself?

Why not listen to people who think differently than you instead of believing what you're TOLD they think?

This is on you, not me. YOU have to be CURIOUS for a change.

YOU'RE ON THE INTERNET.

There you have it....

Even he doesn't know THE ISSUES that he's supposedly supporting, to the extent that he'll tell you about them....It's up to you to Google it and presume that's what he's all about.

Not just a phony, but a fucking coward to boot.

Holy shit, you're making this too damn easy to just shove straight down your throat. But I'll still be more than happy to!

Go ahead. Start listing off the issues, and I'll be more than happy to show you where I agree or disagree with your buffoon hero.

If you had the balls, you'd just save time by clicking on the links in the 2nd and 4th lines of my sig, since they're going to be the same answers. I've been completely forthcoming on all my positions for a long time, right there.

But that's okay! You have no balls! So list 'em one at a time. Go!

 

[Mac1958]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Annnnd.... once AGAIN... you speak totally from a left prospective, while pretending to be providing a centered argument.
The crux of your little post is simple:... Stupid fucking people will vote for Trump. Not every one is fucking stupid. The Democrats should be able to attract people who aren't so stupid. But they didn't.

And in your world.... that is an objective question/argument.
Holy cow

It certainly lines up with the evidence. I don't think there's anything particularly smart about voting for Biden, but Trump's anti-intellectualism and confused rhetoric make it pretty hard for intelligent people to sign on. Not saying they don't - lesser-of-two-evils prompts otherwise smart people to do all kinds of idiotic shit (like voting for Biden for example), but it's pretty obvious that the educated elite aren't Trump's base.

There is a big portion of the educated elite are trumps bases despite the fact he is a flaming idiot... they support him because he has more policies that will make them more money. Plain and simple

Biden isn’t there for groundbreaking ideas.His biggest asset is his relationships in congress and ability to unite. People who want our government to start working together instead of fighting like school
Children doing nothing should support Biden

WTF? When has Biden done anything inclusive? The guy is a total divider and hate monger

He has worked with Republicans his whole career. You haven’t paid attention

You mean like the Clarence Thomas hearings where he helped his fellow Dims to smear the man? What has he worked with Republicans to do?

You know many on the left were upset at Biden for not pushing back enough against the republicans and Anita hill. Did you know that?

They don't know any of that stuff. They lack the fundamental curiosity to find out.

They just believe what they're told in their universe.

 

[healthmyths]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

You have some very good points.
The problem is the Democrats have a major disadvantage. It is known as the MSM. Historically here is what the MSM did in 2016.
96% donated to Hillary, i.e. their choice and the ONLY way they could affect the aftermath was to present Trump in the worst light.
Honestly... where do you get most of your negative observations of Trump? From the MSM!
I've done this many times showing how a perception generated by the MSM has actually created more Trump supporters.
The perception the MSM has that "Trump is anti-immigrant". Google results: 48,900 "Trump is anti Illegal immigrant"..results 381.
So millions of Americans like me that have relatives OR are "Legal immigrants" are insulted and realize the MSM has fostered a totally
wrong image of Trump...who by the way is MARRIED to a LEGAL immigrant and had a LEGAL immigrant Grandmother.
So when the millions of us are insulted by the MSM making derogatory statements about Trump anti immigrant... WE KNOW that is a LIE!
And consequently we totally then disbelieve EVERYTHING the MSM puts out... sometimes even when it's true!
So the Democrats have a very bad ally with the MSM as it in the worst case that I heard today that could happen is that a vote in Congress would
determine the Presidency. The point the Democrats ALL know is this: There is only 1 vote per state in the House on this issue.

Contingent elections are extremely rare, having occurred only three times in American history, all in the early 1800s
Each state delegation votes en bloc, with each state having a single vote.

Contingent election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

YES each state has just ONE vote in case of contingent election.
So using 2016 as an example: Hillary Clinton won 20 states and DC Trump won 30 states.
So if this became a contingent election and the House determines the Presidency... based on today... Trump would win!
AGAIN just to remind you readers that THINK the electoral college in the case of a "Contingent election" is the end-all-be-all.. Wrong!
The House votes and each state gets just one vote. The candidate that won that state will get the vote.
So even Biden winning NY/CA/IL as Hillary did... the other states and NY/CA/IL all get just one vote!
FACTS..

 

[dblack]

I don't care near as much about what ANY politician says as much as what they DO.

Agree. And what Trump does is divisive and fear inducing. He's a troll and he's tearing the country apart.

Biden doesn't even answer his own questions in live interviews, he reads what other people tell him to answer. You cool with that?

Absolutely! I'm not voting for Biden, but calculated answers are far better than the random, incoherent shit that comes from Trump's mouth.

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

You have some very good points.
The problem is the Democrats have a major disadvantage. It is known as the MSM. Historically here is what the MSM did in 2016.
96% donated to Hillary, i.e. their choice and the ONLY way they could affect the aftermath was to present Trump in the worst light.
Honestly... where do you get most of your negative observations of Trump? From the MSM!
I've done this many times showing how a perception generated by the MSM has actually created more Trump supporters.
The perception the MSM has that "Trump is anti-immigrant". Google results: 48,900 "Trump is anti Illegal immigrant"..results 381.
So millions of Americans like me that have relatives OR are "Legal immigrants" are insulted and realize the MSM has fostered a totally
wrong image of Trump...who by the way is MARRIED to a LEGAL immigrant and had a LEGAL immigrant Grandmother.
So when the millions of us are insulted by the MSM making derogatory statements about Trump anti immigrant... WE KNOW that is a LIE!
And consequently we totally then disbelieve EVERYTHING the MSM puts out... sometimes even when it's true!
So the Democrats have a very bad ally with the MSM as it in the worst case that I heard today that could happen is that a vote in Congress would
determine the Presidency. The point the Democrats ALL know is this: There is only 1 vote per state in the House on this issue.

Contingent elections are extremely rare, having occurred only three times in American history, all in the early 1800s
Each state delegation votes en bloc, with each state having a single vote.

Contingent election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

YES each state has just ONE vote in case of contingent election.
So using 2016 as an example: Hillary Clinton won 20 states and DC Trump won 30 states.
So if this became a contingent election and the House determines the Presidency... based on today... Trump would win!
AGAIN just to remind you readers that THINK the electoral college in the case of a "Contingent election" is the end-all-be-all.. Wrong!
The House votes and each state gets just one vote. The candidate that won that state will get the vote.
So even Biden winning NY/CA/IL as Hillary did... the other states and NY/CA/IL all get just one vote!
FACTS..

View attachment 388694

Let’s dig into that. Here is an article by CNN trumps sworn enemy about his recent actions on legal immigration. Can you point out a few things that you think they are lying or misleading about?

Trump administration's swipe at legal immigration puts thousands of lives in limbo

The Trump administration's executive order this week dramatically curtailing legal immigration to the US sent hundreds of people and businesses into a scramble to understand whether their future plans are now derailed.

www.cnn.com

 

[dblack]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I can't see how rational people would choose what the democrats are offering because they don't like Trump as a person.

Once again, your reasoning is flawed because you're not paying attention.

His embarrassing behaviors and the ugly stain that is Trumpism come AFTER the fact that many of us disagree with him on...

.... ready? ....

THE ISSUES.

This really doesn't need to be that complicated. But you need to listen and think a little.

Fine, what is the left offering that people should support? Don't just give a link to a platform. What do you believe working people want that democrats are offering? If it is all about the policies, then what besides higher taxes, energy costs, crime, and condemnation of all white people are democrats offering? Before you bash me for being lazy, your party is not exactly pushing any policy at the moment. None.

Aren't you forgetting something?

The Democrats are also promising to elimitate the notion of national sovereignty as long as they view it as helping to create more democrat voters.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I can't see how rational people would choose what the democrats are offering because they don't like Trump as a person.

Once again, your reasoning is flawed because you're not paying attention.

His embarrassing behaviors and the ugly stain that is Trumpism come AFTER the fact that many of us disagree with him on...

.... ready? ....

THE ISSUES.

This really doesn't need to be that complicated. But you need to listen and think a little.

Fine, what is the left offering that people should support? Don't just give a link to a platform. What do you believe working people want that democrats are offering? If it is all about the policies, then what besides higher taxes, energy costs, crime, and condemnation of all white people are democrats offering? Before you bash me for being lazy, your party is not exactly pushing any policy at the moment. None.

Aren't you forgetting something?

The Democrats are also promising to elimitate the notion of national sovereignty as long as they view it as helping to create more democrat voters.

Post the source, please.

 

[Oddball]

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

From what I've seen, ranked choice voting hasn't worked out well at all...It hasn't split up the vote in the ways that the proponents had imagined that it would.

 

[dblack]

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

From what I've seen, ranked choice voting hasn't worked out well at all...It hasn't split up the vote in the ways that the proponents had imagined that it would.

It's not supposed to split up the vote, and it won't necessarily bolster third parties. But it eliminates Lo2e, and in my view that's the biggest dysfunction of our democracy.

 

[Oddball]

I can't see how rational people would choose what the democrats are offering because they don't like Trump as a person.

Once again, your reasoning is flawed because you're not paying attention.

His embarrassing behaviors and the ugly stain that is Trumpism come AFTER the fact that many of us disagree with him on...

.... ready? ....

THE ISSUES.

This really doesn't need to be that complicated. But you need to listen and think a little.

Fine, what is the left offering that people should support? Don't just give a link to a platform. What do you believe working people want that democrats are offering? If it is all about the policies, then what besides higher taxes, energy costs, crime, and condemnation of all white people are democrats offering? Before you bash me for being lazy, your party is not exactly pushing any policy at the moment. None.

Do you realize you're on the internet? Why are you not curious enough to find out for yourself?

Why not listen to people who think differently than you instead of believing what you're TOLD they think?

This is on you, not me. YOU have to be CURIOUS for a change.

YOU'RE ON THE INTERNET.

There you have it....

Even he doesn't know THE ISSUES that he's supposedly supporting, to the extent that he'll tell you about them....It's up to you to Google it and presume that's what he's all about.

Not just a phony, but a fucking coward to boot.

Holy shit, you're making this too damn easy to just shove straight down your throat. But I'll still be more than happy to!

Go ahead. Start listing off the issues, and I'll be more than happy to show you where I agree or disagree with your buffoon hero.

If you had the balls, you'd just save time by clicking on the links in the 2nd and 4th lines of my sig, since they're going to be the same answers. I've been completely forthcoming on all my positions for a long time, right there.

But that's okay! You have no balls! So list 'em one at a time. Go!

Once again, I'm not a Trumpster...Unless you've foolishly ^ahem^ assumed that my understanding of who a guy is and what he's going through signals approval of him....I'm here to break the bad news to you that it doesn't.

And I don't need to click on any of your silly links to remember what you said all the way back to yesterday, or maybe Saturday, in that you'll be voting for Biden because you see him as less bad than Trump.

Lo2E NOT voting the issues, you fraudulent, disingenuous, lying piece of shit.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yeah I don't get it either. Maybe America in the recesses of our collective soul is as fascistic and authoritarian as any banana republic. Democracy is no longer reliably producing rich, white plutocratic politicians so it must be time to destroy it.

reality time America doesn't support the lawless acts that democrats have allowed to happen in leftists controlled blue cities
America doesn't support the banana republic that we see happening within those leftists controlled cities.

 

[healthmyths]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

You have some very good points.
The problem is the Democrats have a major disadvantage. It is known as the MSM. Historically here is what the MSM did in 2016.
96% donated to Hillary, i.e. their choice and the ONLY way they could affect the aftermath was to present Trump in the worst light.
Honestly... where do you get most of your negative observations of Trump? From the MSM!
I've done this many times showing how a perception generated by the MSM has actually created more Trump supporters.
The perception the MSM has that "Trump is anti-immigrant". Google results: 48,900 "Trump is anti Illegal immigrant"..results 381.
So millions of Americans like me that have relatives OR are "Legal immigrants" are insulted and realize the MSM has fostered a totally
wrong image of Trump...who by the way is MARRIED to a LEGAL immigrant and had a LEGAL immigrant Grandmother.
So when the millions of us are insulted by the MSM making derogatory statements about Trump anti immigrant... WE KNOW that is a LIE!
And consequently we totally then disbelieve EVERYTHING the MSM puts out... sometimes even when it's true!
So the Democrats have a very bad ally with the MSM as it in the worst case that I heard today that could happen is that a vote in Congress would
determine the Presidency. The point the Democrats ALL know is this: There is only 1 vote per state in the House on this issue.

Contingent elections are extremely rare, having occurred only three times in American history, all in the early 1800s
Each state delegation votes en bloc, with each state having a single vote.

Contingent election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

YES each state has just ONE vote in case of contingent election.
So using 2016 as an example: Hillary Clinton won 20 states and DC Trump won 30 states.
So if this became a contingent election and the House determines the Presidency... based on today... Trump would win!
AGAIN just to remind you readers that THINK the electoral college in the case of a "Contingent election" is the end-all-be-all.. Wrong!
The House votes and each state gets just one vote. The candidate that won that state will get the vote.
So even Biden winning NY/CA/IL as Hillary did... the other states and NY/CA/IL all get just one vote!
FACTS..

View attachment 388694

Let’s dig into that. Here is an article by CNN trumps sworn enemy about his recent actions on legal immigration. Can you point out a few things that you think they are lying or misleading about?

Trump administration's swipe at legal immigration puts thousands of lives in limbo

The Trump administration's executive order this week dramatically curtailing legal immigration to the US sent hundreds of people and businesses into a scramble to understand whether their future plans are now derailed.

www.cnn.com

Well right away !

The Migration Policy Institute, a think tank based in Washington, DC, estimates some 167,000 temporary workers will be kept out of the United States as a result of the new restrictions, which took effect on Wednesday.
The administration argued, in the proclamation, that the "extraordinary circumstances" posed by coronavirus called for the suspension of employment-based visas

Trump administration's swipe at legal immigration puts thousands of lives in limbo

The Trump administration's executive order this week dramatically curtailing legal immigration to the US sent hundreds of people and businesses into a scramble to understand whether their future plans are now derailed.

www.cnn.com

So with today's unemployment under 8% you would prefer giving jobs to these people who haven't signed up to become Naturalized Citizens... but are Temporary workers... YOU want THEM to take jobs from people that WANT to be here?

And this anecdotal, heart wrenching oh so sad story...
"I have to work in the location I'm supposed to work, so I'm stuck in Austin," he told CNN. "I have no choice, but I have to stay here all alone."
Venugopal expects to be separated from his wife and 11-month-old daughter through the rest of the year.
Choices. That's what has to be done. It's hard I know!
Shit....! I've been separated from my better half for nearly 2 years! And I'm a natural citizen!
Big f...king woo!
As I pointed out CNN IS NOT a Trump supporter and finds anything... but this is just simply wrong!
Go to Venugopal's country of India... see how hard it is to become a citizen... if you are not in the right CASTE!
The U.S. has one of the world’s weaker laws for illegal entry, according to the data in a study by the Library of Congress, which surveyed statutes in more than 160 nations and released its findings amid a heated debate over whether America’s penalties are too stiff.

Illegal entry penalties in other countries include prison, labor camps, caning

Jumping the border in Singapore is punishable by six months in prison — and not less than three strokes with a cane. In Russia, it can earn you up to two years in a prison labor camp. Pakistan goes as high as 10 years in prison, while India allows for up to eight years behind bars for those who...

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[bripat9643]

Democrats crowed about the EC in 2012 when Obama won re-election. Then they melted down about it in 2016 when Trump won. Their indignation is totally driven by circumstance.

Why would they crow about it. Obama won the Popular vote handily....

I don't want PV and would never want it regardless of how elections turned out. That would just be tyranny of the majority

And so? As opposed to what, the tyranny of the minority?

I trust the people to get these things right, thank you... You clearly don't.

How about tyranny of nobody? That's called freedom.

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word