4th Grade "Science" Quiz - Were you there?

[westwall]

If the current laws of physics prove to be inaccurate we can always change them to fit reality. It's the great thing about science. You can swear it's the truth one day and calmly say you were wrong the next day. No harm no foul.

Science is not interested in "truth". That is the terrain of the religious. Science is interested in facts. We observe the physical world and record what we see. If a scientist begins talking about morality he is no longer a scientist, he has become a high priest advocating for whatever religion he happens to be pushing..

It's interesting to hear you say that science is not interested in truth. Are scientists interested in lies then? I would say that science is only interested in truth. Truths that can be observed, truths that can be documented, truths that can be measured, truths that can be tested. Truth doesn't really have anything to do with morality except to say that it is immoral to lie.

There isn't really anything wrong with scientists talking about morality either. As long as they understand where the science ends and the morality begins.

NO! Science is interested in facts and facts alone! There are no "truths" in science. Everytime we build a better instrument we find out that facts we knew to be accurate no longer are.

All through the history of science there has been a continuous increase not only in our knowledge but in our ability to measure, to observe at the smallest level, to modify the very elements of matter.

Every time that occurs some new "truth" would be discovered and an old "truth" would be cast aside. That's why science doesn't bother itself with truth. Science is solely about observing the physical world and understanding how we can use what has been discovered.

And you're wrong about scientists speaking about moral values. I have no problem with a scientist talking about morality so long as he does it as a private person and doesn't use his credentials as some sort of credibility booster.

If they use their position as scientists to speak on morality issues then they have crossed an ethical and professional line. They LOSE credibility in the scientific world whenever they do that.

 

[westwall]

Does the term "We the people" ring any bells? The "federal government" is "We the people". We are responsible for the federal government that we have. "We the people" need to "unite to form a more perfect union" once again. "We the people" are the fools if we allow ourselves to be divided against our own government of the people, by the people and for the people. Or are you saying that you no longer trust "We the people"?

Sorry, but I know how the Founders viewed 'we the people' and how different they saw the federal government to be from 'we the people'. They conceived of a government that would serve the people and would have no power or authority of any kind other than the powers very narrowly assigned to it by the Constitution. Its purpose was to secure the rights of the people, and then the people would govern themselves however they chose to do that.

And they repeatedly worried about and cautioned the people to fear and be ever wary of increasing powers of government, and to be prepared to defend themselves if anybody attempted to again attempt to subject them to a monarch or pope or any other government authority. There was a purpose and necessity for a central government, but the people were always cautioned to never see it as friend or benefactor.

So are you saying that the founders "great experiment" in self government has been a complete and abject failure?

Of course. All governments fail. Ours is merely following the normal progression of all Republics, we've lasted almost as long as the Roman Republic did and we are suffering from the same political corruption that brought them down. Next up we will have a dictatorship of some sort. I just hope I and my daughter are long gone before that happens.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The real damage done to children by this kind of education is not the teaching of fairly tails about dinosaurs and the age of the earth, but rather the rejection of the scientific method which is a foundation of modern science.

Creationism begins with a conclusion, that which is in Bible. There is no hypothesis and thus the purpose of research is not to test the hypothesis but rather to support the conclusion, that which is in the Bible.

Creationism should be taught in a theology class not a science class.

Very true.

The people that demand that ‘creationism’ needs to be taught next to evolution fail to understand what science is and what creationism is. They are not competing theories as one is NOT science weather or not it is true. One is science and should be taught in science class.

But, that's exactly what they do believe.

My question is - are people actually getting dumber or does it just seem that way? I'm not being flip or sarcastic. Most (?) of us would ask if this is a genuine 4th grade quiz because it seems impossible that any school/teacher would teach such nonsense.

But, one look at the mind numbing ignorance of the tea party, the fundies and a huge segment of the right wing tells a different story.

So, have we always been this dumb?

Watch the You Tube videos of "man-on-the-street" questioning about really basic things like the Vietnam conflict, the location of Iraq, presidents ... the answers are funny as hell but also really frightening.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I'm reminded of the tv commercial where the girl says "they can't say anything on the internet that isn't true".

I strongly suspect that many people blindly believe whatever comes in their email inbox.

How else can we account for the incredible lies about Obama that make the rounds?

And, even when people see they were wrong, they don't believe it.

Go look at the thread about Pelosi posing in a bathing suit. Read the comments by the nutters here as well as at the source. Even after they learn they are wrong, they want to believe its true.

The right is willfully ignorant. Throw god into the mix and you get the rise in fundie religion we're seeing.

 

[Oldguy]

The right is willfully ignorant. Throw god into the mix and you get the rise in fundie religion we're seeing.

No. You get the rise of Christianity as a political party. Fundamental religion and the Evangelical movement aren't the same thing by a long shot.

 

[FA_Q2]

Freedom means the right to believe what we believe, profess what we profess, and value what we value regardless of anybody else's opinion about that or whether you or I think it is right or wrong. And when the federal government assumes the right to tell us what can and cannot be taught in the schools, what we must believe, profess, value, or accept, the federal government can do anything to us that it chooses to do and we have no freedoms.

True. When you ask that creationism be taught as an ‘alternative’ theory though, you are not referring to freedom that you are outlining so well here. Instead, you are demanding that others be handed competing ‘theories’ when one is clearly not scientific or based in anything other than religious preference. IOW, that is not an appeal to freedom but rather an appeal to make your own personal beliefs required teachings. Such is completely wrong.

The freedom to have your child educated in such a way still exists. You are completely capable of teaching them this at home for example. Homeschool is a strong and preferable answer to this. You are also capable of enrolling them in a private institution that teaches the curriculum that you believe in. That is your option and should always be your option but interjecting personal belief system or convictions does not belong in a public school.

I will conceded on one point though, the practice of requiring you to pay for a public institution that does not adhere to your standards of education is outright wrong and that is why I support vouchers to enable more people to choose the education for their children that they find meets the standards that they want. I think that is the only real hole here, the government taking your money and then not offering the decisions that you want in your own school.

Certainly we hope our local school boards will choose good curriculum for the public schools and will hire teachers who teach the kids good basic curriculum and teaches them to think and reason and who do not indoctrinate them in what their view of the world should be. It is our responsibility to see that we put people in those positions who do choose honest curriculum and who teach ideas, principles, concepts, theory, possibilities, and how to analyze and conceptualize and reason.

Those who trust the federal government to do that are fools.

Always true.

I would never teach Creationism as science. I would never teach Creationism as history. I would not allow that to be taught to my children if I knew that is what was being taught. I would strongly object to that as a member of my community and I would strongly reject that as a former school board member. If I was overruled by the majority, I would find another way to educate my children.

I have no problem with LOCAL property taxes going to support the public schools if that is what a majority of the people vote to do. Social Contract as the Founders envisioned it allows the people to have whatever sort of society they wish to have. And such societies are not going to be agreeable to every individual, but every individual has full right to form or be part of whatever sort of society he or she prefers.

But unless there is freedom to teach Creationism, or for those who believe in it to have equal voice in what is included in school curriculum, there is no freedom. And it is not a Constitutional function of the federal government to take away that freedom.

Can’t argue with any of that. STOP BEING SO REASONABLE

 

[HereAmIAmMe]

Science is not interested in "truth". That is the terrain of the religious. Science is interested in facts. We observe the physical world and record what we see. If a scientist begins talking about morality he is no longer a scientist, he has become a high priest advocating for whatever religion he happens to be pushing..

It's interesting to hear you say that science is not interested in truth. Are scientists interested in lies then? I would say that science is only interested in truth. Truths that can be observed, truths that can be documented, truths that can be measured, truths that can be tested. Truth doesn't really have anything to do with morality except to say that it is immoral to lie.

There isn't really anything wrong with scientists talking about morality either. As long as they understand where the science ends and the morality begins.

NO! Science is interested in facts and facts alone! There are no "truths" in science. Everytime we build a better instrument we find out that facts we knew to be accurate no longer are.

All through the history of science there has been a continuous increase not only in our knowledge but in our ability to measure, to observe at the smallest level, to modify the very elements of matter.

Every time that occurs some new "truth" would be discovered and an old "truth" would be cast aside. That's why science doesn't bother itself with truth. Science is solely about observing the physical world and understanding how we can use what has been discovered.

And you're wrong about scientists speaking about moral values. I have no problem with a scientist talking about morality so long as he does it as a private person and doesn't use his credentials as some sort of credibility booster.

If they use their position as scientists to speak on morality issues then they have crossed an ethical and professional line. They LOSE credibility in the scientific world whenever they do that.

Main Entry: truth  [trooth] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: reality, validity
Synonyms: accuracy, actuality, authenticity, axiom, case, certainty, correctness, dope*, exactitude, exactness, fact, facts, factualism, factuality, factualness, genuineness, gospel truth, gospel, honest truth, infallibility, inside track, legitimacy, maxim, naked truth, nitty-gritty, perfection, picture, plain talk, precision, principle, rectitude, rightness, scoop, score, trueness, truism, truthfulness, unvarnished truth, veracity, verisimilitude, verity, whole story
Antonyms: falsehood, invention, untruth

Truth Synonyms, Truth Antonyms | Thesaurus.com

A fact is not a fact unless it is true. Our understanding of facts can change as we gain more knowledge or a better ability to measure them. Things that look like facts can be revealed to be false in part or in whole as we gain the ability to look at them more closely. Things that are true in one point in time and in one set of circumstances can be false in the next. In that next circumstance, as in the first, science will measure the facts at that moment to discern what is true. Measurements over time lead to a deeper understanding of underlying facts (truths) that cannot be discerned in an instant. Science seeks truths not falsehoods; facts not seemings. If a scientist is not seeking what is true and real he is seeking what is false and imagined. Is that the kind of scientist you want?

I agree that a scientist who seeks to persuade people to a moral standpoint is stepping outside his role as a scientist, and in some circumstances might lose face for it. However, a scientist is first and foremost a human being, and as such possesses a moral position. Would you expect a scientist to compromise his moral judgement in the name of science? There are some scientific avenues of study that cross moral boundaries, and a scientist that does not speak out against such studies is really just giving his assent to them.

 

[HereAmIAmMe]

It's interesting to hear you say that science is not interested in truth. Are scientists interested in lies then? I would say that science is only interested in truth. Truths that can be observed, truths that can be documented, truths that can be measured, truths that can be tested. Truth doesn't really have anything to do with morality except to say that it is immoral to lie.

There isn't really anything wrong with scientists talking about morality either. As long as they understand where the science ends and the morality begins.

No, you misunderstand.
Think of it this way.

The scientific method really deals in probabilities.
As more and more evidence points towards a likely explanation, 'science' can say that "that explanation is the most likely".
However, no matter how strongly a conclusion is proved and accepted, 'science' is always open to new evidence that points to a different conclusion.

In science there is no absolute truth. Only in mathematics do we have absolute truth.

Better to say in science our understanding of the truth can never be absolute. Reality is no less real, nor the truth less true just because we can't understand it.

 

[FA_Q2]

The real damage done to children by this kind of education is not the teaching of fairly tails about dinosaurs and the age of the earth, but rather the rejection of the scientific method which is a foundation of modern science.

Creationism begins with a conclusion, that which is in Bible. There is no hypothesis and thus the purpose of research is not to test the hypothesis but rather to support the conclusion, that which is in the Bible.

Creationism should be taught in a theology class not a science class.

Very true.

The people that demand that ‘creationism’ needs to be taught next to evolution fail to understand what science is and what creationism is. They are not competing theories as one is NOT science weather or not it is true. One is science and should be taught in science class.

But, that's exactly what they do believe.

My question is - are people actually getting dumber or does it just seem that way? I'm not being flip or sarcastic. Most (?) of us would ask if this is a genuine 4th grade quiz because it seems impossible that any school/teacher would teach such nonsense.

But, one look at the mind numbing ignorance of the tea party, the fundies and a huge segment of the right wing tells a different story.

So, have we always been this dumb?

Watch the You Tube videos of "man-on-the-street" questioning about really basic things like the Vietnam conflict, the location of Iraq, presidents ... the answers are funny as hell but also really frightening.

Aside from the useless BS partisan attack (I can say the same thing about the OWS people as you wish to label the tea party movement with) people really are getting dumber. The sad reality is that people with a lower intelligence are more likely to have children than those that are successful, hardworking and smart. Desirable attributes tend to not be the ones that determine having a large family. Just a tendency by the way, not a rule. There is also the element of need working against us. People no longer need to be even remotely intelligent and the brain loses its effectiveness when not used. Most people are content to live life without ever questioning, thinking or understanding what is going on around them. It is sad BUT it is true and yet another thing that we can do nothing about.

Evolution simply works against a species such as ours that has transcended natural selection. Meh, that’s just what we have been handed and there is nothing that can be done about it.

 

[HereAmIAmMe]

Very true.

The people that demand that ‘creationism’ needs to be taught next to evolution fail to understand what science is and what creationism is. They are not competing theories as one is NOT science weather or not it is true. One is science and should be taught in science class.

But, that's exactly what they do believe.

My question is - are people actually getting dumber or does it just seem that way? I'm not being flip or sarcastic. Most (?) of us would ask if this is a genuine 4th grade quiz because it seems impossible that any school/teacher would teach such nonsense.

But, one look at the mind numbing ignorance of the tea party, the fundies and a huge segment of the right wing tells a different story.

So, have we always been this dumb?

Watch the You Tube videos of "man-on-the-street" questioning about really basic things like the Vietnam conflict, the location of Iraq, presidents ... the answers are funny as hell but also really frightening.

Aside from the useless BS partisan attack (I can say the same thing about the OWS people as you wish to label the tea party movement with) people really are getting dumber. The sad reality is that people with a lower intelligence are more likely to have children than those that are successful, hardworking and smart. Desirable attributes tend to not be the ones that determine having a large family. Just a tendency by the way, not a rule. There is also the element of need working against us. People no longer need to be even remotely intelligent and the brain loses its effectiveness when not used. Most people are content to live life without ever questioning, thinking or understanding what is going on around them. It is sad BUT it is true and yet another thing that we can do nothing about.

Evolution simply works against a species such as ours that has transcended natural selection. Meh, that’s just what we have been handed and there is nothing that can be done about it.

It doesn't take much brain power to stay alive especially in today's world. If you get caught up in simply living your life it is easy to let the brain muscle atrophy. It's easy to let that creep up on you too. Even a person who does have a high level of intelligence can let their reasoning skills go to rust when it is so easy to just work your 9-5 and veg on the couch afterwards (or worse collect your welfare check and never even leave the couch.)

 

[Oldguy]

Very true.

The people that demand that ‘creationism’ needs to be taught next to evolution fail to understand what science is and what creationism is. They are not competing theories as one is NOT science weather or not it is true. One is science and should be taught in science class.

But, that's exactly what they do believe.

My question is - are people actually getting dumber or does it just seem that way? I'm not being flip or sarcastic. Most (?) of us would ask if this is a genuine 4th grade quiz because it seems impossible that any school/teacher would teach such nonsense.

But, one look at the mind numbing ignorance of the tea party, the fundies and a huge segment of the right wing tells a different story.

So, have we always been this dumb?

Watch the You Tube videos of "man-on-the-street" questioning about really basic things like the Vietnam conflict, the location of Iraq, presidents ... the answers are funny as hell but also really frightening.

Aside from the useless BS partisan attack (I can say the same thing about the OWS people as you wish to label the tea party movement with) people really are getting dumber. The sad reality is that people with a lower intelligence are more likely to have children than those that are successful, hardworking and smart. Desirable attributes tend to not be the ones that determine having a large family. Just a tendency by the way, not a rule. There is also the element of need working against us. People no longer need to be even remotely intelligent and the brain loses its effectiveness when not used. Most people are content to live life without ever questioning, thinking or understanding what is going on around them. It is sad BUT it is true and yet another thing that we can do nothing about.

Evolution simply works against a species such as ours that has transcended natural selection. Meh, that’s just what we have been handed and there is nothing that can be done about it.

So, this is a vision of our future?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk]Idiocracy - Trailer - YouTube[/ame]


That's as encouraging as hell, ain't it?

 

[HereAmIAmMe]

But, that's exactly what they do believe.

My question is - are people actually getting dumber or does it just seem that way? I'm not being flip or sarcastic. Most (?) of us would ask if this is a genuine 4th grade quiz because it seems impossible that any school/teacher would teach such nonsense.

But, one look at the mind numbing ignorance of the tea party, the fundies and a huge segment of the right wing tells a different story.

So, have we always been this dumb?

Watch the You Tube videos of "man-on-the-street" questioning about really basic things like the Vietnam conflict, the location of Iraq, presidents ... the answers are funny as hell but also really frightening.

Aside from the useless BS partisan attack (I can say the same thing about the OWS people as you wish to label the tea party movement with) people really are getting dumber. The sad reality is that people with a lower intelligence are more likely to have children than those that are successful, hardworking and smart. Desirable attributes tend to not be the ones that determine having a large family. Just a tendency by the way, not a rule. There is also the element of need working against us. People no longer need to be even remotely intelligent and the brain loses its effectiveness when not used. Most people are content to live life without ever questioning, thinking or understanding what is going on around them. It is sad BUT it is true and yet another thing that we can do nothing about.

Evolution simply works against a species such as ours that has transcended natural selection. Meh, that’s just what we have been handed and there is nothing that can be done about it.

So, this is a vision of our future?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk]Idiocracy - Trailer - YouTube[/ame]


That's as encouraging as hell, ain't it?

Hopefully it won't ever get that far.

 

[FA_Q2]

But, that's exactly what they do believe.

My question is - are people actually getting dumber or does it just seem that way? I'm not being flip or sarcastic. Most (?) of us would ask if this is a genuine 4th grade quiz because it seems impossible that any school/teacher would teach such nonsense.

But, one look at the mind numbing ignorance of the tea party, the fundies and a huge segment of the right wing tells a different story.

So, have we always been this dumb?

Watch the You Tube videos of "man-on-the-street" questioning about really basic things like the Vietnam conflict, the location of Iraq, presidents ... the answers are funny as hell but also really frightening.

Aside from the useless BS partisan attack (I can say the same thing about the OWS people as you wish to label the tea party movement with) people really are getting dumber. The sad reality is that people with a lower intelligence are more likely to have children than those that are successful, hardworking and smart. Desirable attributes tend to not be the ones that determine having a large family. Just a tendency by the way, not a rule. There is also the element of need working against us. People no longer need to be even remotely intelligent and the brain loses its effectiveness when not used. Most people are content to live life without ever questioning, thinking or understanding what is going on around them. It is sad BUT it is true and yet another thing that we can do nothing about.

Evolution simply works against a species such as ours that has transcended natural selection. Meh, that’s just what we have been handed and there is nothing that can be done about it.

So, this is a vision of our future?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk]Idiocracy - Trailer - YouTube[/ame]


That's as encouraging as hell, ain't it?

I know but it is possible (in a less extreme way).

Scary though. It is where we are going as allowing your brain to rot is not looked down on but actually encouraged. I find that I rarely can have an intelligent conversation with most people. They simply are not interested in anything that is not a sport or TV program. Sad. How many people know basics about the government, astro physics (or any science for that matter), classic literature, history, hell ANYTHING. I am not talking real in depth either but basics. I can count the number of people on one hand that have even heard of 1984, hitchhikers guide to the universe (not the damn movie), Fahrenheit 451 or a myriad of other grate works that DEFINE THE WORDS THEY USE.

Now you have me on a rant so /END RANT
So, we were saying???

 

[HereAmIAmMe]

Aside from the useless BS partisan attack (I can say the same thing about the OWS people as you wish to label the tea party movement with) people really are getting dumber. The sad reality is that people with a lower intelligence are more likely to have children than those that are successful, hardworking and smart. Desirable attributes tend to not be the ones that determine having a large family. Just a tendency by the way, not a rule. There is also the element of need working against us. People no longer need to be even remotely intelligent and the brain loses its effectiveness when not used. Most people are content to live life without ever questioning, thinking or understanding what is going on around them. It is sad BUT it is true and yet another thing that we can do nothing about.

Evolution simply works against a species such as ours that has transcended natural selection. Meh, that’s just what we have been handed and there is nothing that can be done about it.

So, this is a vision of our future?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk]Idiocracy - Trailer - YouTube[/ame]


That's as encouraging as hell, ain't it?

I know but it is possible (in a less extreme way).

Scary though. It is where we are going as allowing your brain to rot is not looked down on but actually encouraged. I find that I rarely can have an intelligent conversation with most people. They simply are not interested in anything that is not a sport or TV program. Sad. How many people know basics about the government, astro physics (or any science for that matter), classic literature, history, hell ANYTHING. I am not talking real in depth either but basics. I can count the number of people on one hand that have even heard of 1984, hitchhikers guide to the universe (not the damn movie), Fahrenheit 451 or a myriad of other grate works that DEFINE THE WORDS THEY USE.

Now you have me on a rant so /END RANT
So, we were saying???

Read 1984 in school (thinking of reading it again because I don't remember it all that well). Read Hitchhiker's Guide for my own enjoyment. Haven't read Fahrenheit 451 (heard of it though). Maybe I'll have to find a copy if its any good.

There will always be some intelligent people in the world, but I could see the masses reaching a height of stupidity and electing people who ruin the country. Uninformed voting is a bigger danger to the country than any of the issues that politicians play with.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Sorry, but I know how the Founders viewed 'we the people' and how different they saw the federal government to be from 'we the people'. They conceived of a government that would serve the people and would have no power or authority of any kind other than the powers very narrowly assigned to it by the Constitution. Its purpose was to secure the rights of the people, and then the people would govern themselves however they chose to do that.

And they repeatedly worried about and cautioned the people to fear and be ever wary of increasing powers of government, and to be prepared to defend themselves if anybody attempted to again attempt to subject them to a monarch or pope or any other government authority. There was a purpose and necessity for a central government, but the people were always cautioned to never see it as friend or benefactor.

So are you saying that the founders "great experiment" in self government has been a complete and abject failure?

Not at all. It was an outstanding success until Teddy Roosevelt turned the Constitution on its head by declaring the government free to do anything that the Constitution did not expressly FORBID, rather than being limited to what the Constitution expressly allowed. The libertarians got caught flat footed on that one and failed to stop it.

And that started the snowball of big government power rolling and it has been gaining size, speed, and power ever since so that it now intrudes on every facet of the peoples' lives and grabs for ever more power. And as long as we allow those in the federal government to increase their power, influence, prestige, and personal fortunes at our expense, they have no incentive to reverse the damage.

When the federal government can tell us what sort of society we must have, and what must and must not be taught in 4th grade, we have no freedoms at all.

So if I understand you properly every single act of congress since Teddy Roosevelt must be repealed? Is that what you are advocating?

 

[Foxfyre]

So are you saying that the founders "great experiment" in self government has been a complete and abject failure?

Not at all. It was an outstanding success until Teddy Roosevelt turned the Constitution on its head by declaring the government free to do anything that the Constitution did not expressly FORBID, rather than being limited to what the Constitution expressly allowed. The libertarians got caught flat footed on that one and failed to stop it.

And that started the snowball of big government power rolling and it has been gaining size, speed, and power ever since so that it now intrudes on every facet of the peoples' lives and grabs for ever more power. And as long as we allow those in the federal government to increase their power, influence, prestige, and personal fortunes at our expense, they have no incentive to reverse the damage.

When the federal government can tell us what sort of society we must have, and what must and must not be taught in 4th grade, we have no freedoms at all.

So if I understand you properly every single act of congress since Teddy Roosevelt must be repealed? Is that what you are advocating?

No dear. But as a dedicated progressive, I'm not surprised you are reading it that way.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Not at all. It was an outstanding success until Teddy Roosevelt turned the Constitution on its head by declaring the government free to do anything that the Constitution did not expressly FORBID, rather than being limited to what the Constitution expressly allowed. The libertarians got caught flat footed on that one and failed to stop it.

And that started the snowball of big government power rolling and it has been gaining size, speed, and power ever since so that it now intrudes on every facet of the peoples' lives and grabs for ever more power. And as long as we allow those in the federal government to increase their power, influence, prestige, and personal fortunes at our expense, they have no incentive to reverse the damage.

When the federal government can tell us what sort of society we must have, and what must and must not be taught in 4th grade, we have no freedoms at all.

So if I understand you properly every single act of congress since Teddy Roosevelt must be repealed? Is that what you are advocating?

No dear. But as a dedicated progressive, I'm not surprised you are reading it that way.

Then I am at a loss to understand what you are saying, my dear Foxy. Please help me out a little bit here because we "dedicated progressives" need to come to grips with what are your concerns and what you believe to be the appropriate remedies for them. Without specifics we will just blunder around and make things even worse. So what do we need to go about changing to put things right. (No pun intended. )

 

[Foxfyre]

So if I understand you properly every single act of congress since Teddy Roosevelt must be repealed? Is that what you are advocating?

No dear. But as a dedicated progressive, I'm not surprised you are reading it that way.

Then I am at a loss to understand what you are saying, my dear Foxy. Please help me out a little bit here because we "dedicated progressives" need to come to grips with what are your concerns and what you believe to be the appropriate remedies for them. Without specifics we will just blunder around and make things even worse. So what do we need to go about changing to put things right. (No pun intended. )

The remedy is to begin now, slowly and carefully so as not to create extreme pain for those already enslaved to the federal government, to transfer ALL federal programs, functions, and initiatives that were always intended to be managed by the states back to the states to manage if they choose to do so. Bust the federal government back to the functions originally assigned to it by the U.S. Constitution. That would remove most, if not all, corruption from the federal government and those corrupted by it, and would give us a chance to restore the government of the people that the Founders intended.

 

[Derideo_Te]

No dear. But as a dedicated progressive, I'm not surprised you are reading it that way.

Then I am at a loss to understand what you are saying, my dear Foxy. Please help me out a little bit here because we "dedicated progressives" need to come to grips with what are your concerns and what you believe to be the appropriate remedies for them. Without specifics we will just blunder around and make things even worse. So what do we need to go about changing to put things right. (No pun intended. )

The remedy is to begin now, slowly and carefully so as not to create extreme pain for those already enslaved to the federal government, to transfer ALL federal programs, functions, and initiatives that were always intended to be managed by the states back to the states to manage if they choose to do so.

What if some do and some don't?

Bust the federal government back to the functions originally assigned to it by the U.S. Constitution. That would remove most, if not all, corruption from the federal government and those corrupted by it, and would give us a chance to restore the government of the people that the Founders intended.

Thank you for the reply. A great deal of the current corruption exists because of the functions originally assigned. In defense alone the corporate welfare corruption is rampant. The constant demand that the US must intervene in every single war is nothing more than the special interests lobbying congress because they know that the defense contractors will receive hundreds of billions of our taxpayer dollars when that happens. If we are going to eliminate corruption let's tackle the biggest problems first and foremost, right? (We need to start a separate thread to debate this further. Which would be the appropriate forum?)

 

[Oldguy]

No dear. But as a dedicated progressive, I'm not surprised you are reading it that way.

Then I am at a loss to understand what you are saying, my dear Foxy. Please help me out a little bit here because we "dedicated progressives" need to come to grips with what are your concerns and what you believe to be the appropriate remedies for them. Without specifics we will just blunder around and make things even worse. So what do we need to go about changing to put things right. (No pun intended. )

The remedy is to begin now, slowly and carefully so as not to create extreme pain for those already enslaved to the federal government, to transfer ALL federal programs, functions, and initiatives that were always intended to be managed by the states back to the states to manage if they choose to do so. Bust the federal government back to the functions originally assigned to it by the U.S. Constitution. That would remove most, if not all, corruption from the federal government and those corrupted by it, and would give us a chance to restore the government of the people that the Founders intended.

All that would accomplish would be to shift the corruption from DC to the state capitols. At least in DC, you can keep an eye on all of them at once.