50 years later: has government dependency helped or hurt blacks?

[ClosedCaption]

They are the negative factor in every community, and it hasn't changed after 60 years of favorable legislation and social engineering. You can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped.

No white people pushed blacks into certain areas and blacks weren't allowed to purchase in white areas. Then you add in the FACT that white people got all sorts of handouts AFTER stepping up on the backs of govt AND slaves and for some reason you believe that the Slave owners and slaves should be the same place in life after all the benes you received.

Its really easy to get up the ladder, kick it over then tell everyone else to try harder.

Its funny when white people claim they did it all on their own without help.

My ancestors settled in the Conn. River Valley back in the late 1600's. They were among the first settlers in Western Massachusetts' Pioneer Valley. For generations they worked tirelessly as farmers. They didn't receive subsidies from the Government. They didn't own slaves. When the nation was divided over the topic of slavery, my Great Grandfather volunteered as an officer for a black infantry regiment at time when the Confederacy had proclaimed that any whites captured leading black troops would be hanged. My own father worked three jobs to support his family...he ran a family dairy farm, was a Fire Chief and also built houses part time each summer.

I don't know any other way to put this, Closed...your statement about "white people" is offensive to those who DID it all on their own without help and when you make it...you are an ignorant ASSHOLE!

That's a great story, thanks for sharing. So when I say white people had help...Is it your belief that I mean 100% of white people or a majority? Because if you want me to start saying "Some" "not all" etc etc and treat you like a retard. Not a real retard but a person who doesn't comprehend well. Not saying that all retards don't comprehend .....


See what I'm saying. You're going to have to find someone else to talk to if you expect me to talk like that. Then you'll complain about the PC police and we can all laugh

 

[ClosedCaption]

So when blacks weren't allowed to purchase homes in white areas that was black peoples fault?
And when blacks wasn't given a GI bill to buy houses we did that too? And the Results of those two actions are our fault. '

Unk: See that girl raped and thrown in the garbage. It's her fault!

Did I say any of those things, you filthy liar?

Well CC? Did I, you filthy liar? Hiding from your offensive comments instead of addressing or retracting them like a decent human being?

Back to that One Trick huh? LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR!!

What did you say Unk? What did you mean unk? Whats your stance Unk?

Even an open ended question like that will be avoided...

 

[Asclepias]

Ok, and how long does this condition persist? How many decades after there are no legal impediments is it ok to hold individuals accountable for their own decisions?

Once we start knocking down the societal impediments we should have a good guesstimate in regards to a timeline available for your approval and blessing.

What's amusing about this statement is that you're not intelligent enough to understand that the "societal impediments" that are now holding blacks back...are the very things that you were led to believe would help you!

I'll tell you what the timeline is for resolving the problems we're seeing in the black community...it's never going to happen if we continue doing what we've been doing. The problems are going to keep getting worse because the supposed "solutions" that have been adopted over the past fifty years aren't solutions at all...they are tethers that keep the black community indebted to a big government "Nanny State" that sees them as a captive voting block. Entitlements have been sold to the black community as a good thing when in reality they are handouts to keep you passive and in place.

I was never led to believe racism would help me?

 

[Asclepias]

As a side note, my original ancestor in the Americas came here after being awarded an Irish estate for meritorious service under Oliver Cromwell he discovered that the estate that he had been given was in fact taken from an Irishman by Cromwell. My ancestor decided that he'd rather to emigrate to America. His original farm was on what is now Constitution Plaza in Hartford, Conn. and subsequent generations moved up the Conn. River into what is now Western Mass. The lands there were purchased from the Agawam tribe and the Norwottuck tribe by my ancestors. Anything else you'd like to accuse my family of?

Yes. Swindling the Native Americans out of their land. Also lying about them being the first settlers when there were other people there already.

 

[Oldstyle]

Why did your family accept land that belonged rightfully to someone else? Are you saying they did not know the US government stole that land from Native Americans?

You need to go back to history class, Mensa Man...the US government didn't exist when my family started farming in this country.

So you are saying the land was not Native American land? Are you saying that your ancestors came over here before there was any type of European presence in place?

When my ancestors first got to America...ownership of lands was "fluid" at best. The Dutch, the English, the Mohawk and the Mahican tribes all vied for control of lands between the Conn. River and the Hudson River. My ancestors paid for farm land from the local tribes but that did not protect them from attacks by others who could have cared less about the legality of their title.

 

[Asclepias]

Did I say any of those things, you filthy liar?

Well CC? Did I, you filthy liar? Hiding from your offensive comments instead of addressing or retracting them like a decent human being?

Back to that One Trick huh? LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR!!

What did you say Unk? What did you mean unk? Whats your stance Unk?

Even an open ended question like that will be avoided...

He does that because he knows that he is a liar and lacks character to boot. Of course he will accuse everyone else of the same thing. its all he knows.

 

[Oldstyle]

No white people pushed blacks into certain areas and blacks weren't allowed to purchase in white areas. Then you add in the FACT that white people got all sorts of handouts AFTER stepping up on the backs of govt AND slaves and for some reason you believe that the Slave owners and slaves should be the same place in life after all the benes you received.

Its really easy to get up the ladder, kick it over then tell everyone else to try harder.

Its funny when white people claim they did it all on their own without help.

My ancestors settled in the Conn. River Valley back in the late 1600's. They were among the first settlers in Western Massachusetts' Pioneer Valley. For generations they worked tirelessly as farmers. They didn't receive subsidies from the Government. They didn't own slaves. When the nation was divided over the topic of slavery, my Great Grandfather volunteered as an officer for a black infantry regiment at time when the Confederacy had proclaimed that any whites captured leading black troops would be hanged. My own father worked three jobs to support his family...he ran a family dairy farm, was a Fire Chief and also built houses part time each summer.

I don't know any other way to put this, Closed...your statement about "white people" is offensive to those who DID it all on their own without help and when you make it...you are an ignorant ASSHOLE!

That's a great story, thanks for sharing. So when I say white people had help...Is it your belief that I mean 100% of white people or a majority? Because if you want me to start saying "Some" "not all" etc etc and treat you like a retard. Not a real retard but a person who doesn't comprehend well. Not saying that all retards don't comprehend .....


See what I'm saying. You're going to have to find someone else to talk to if you expect me to talk like that. Then you'll complain about the PC police and we can all laugh

The "retard" here is you for lumping ALL white people together! It's as ignorant as lumping all blacks together or all Hispanics. If you had any integrity you'd realize that your statements are offensive to those whites who DID make it on their own and paid a dear price in doing so.

 

[Asclepias]

You need to go back to history class, Mensa Man...the US government didn't exist when my family started farming in this country.

So you are saying the land was not Native American land? Are you saying that your ancestors came over here before there was any type of European presence in place?

When my ancestors first got to America...ownership of lands was "fluid" at best. The Dutch, the English, the Mohawk and the Mahican tribes all vied for control of lands between the Conn. River and the Hudson River. My ancestors paid for farm land from the local tribes but that did not protect them from attacks by others who could have cared less about the legality of their title.

Give me a break. You and I both know they swindled the natives out of their land and had the government back them up once the natives realized what happened.

 

[Oldstyle]

As a side note, my original ancestor in the Americas came here after being awarded an Irish estate for meritorious service under Oliver Cromwell he discovered that the estate that he had been given was in fact taken from an Irishman by Cromwell. My ancestor decided that he'd rather to emigrate to America. His original farm was on what is now Constitution Plaza in Hartford, Conn. and subsequent generations moved up the Conn. River into what is now Western Mass. The lands there were purchased from the Agawam tribe and the Norwottuck tribe by my ancestors. Anything else you'd like to accuse my family of?

Yes. Swindling the Native Americans out of their land. Also lying about them being the first settlers when there were other people there already.

The area that we're talking about was loosely held by a number of Indian nations that were at war with each other. My ancestors moved into that area and bought farm land from the local tribes. I can only assume that you're convinced a swindle took place because you think the Indians were incapable of putting a value on land?

 

[Asclepias]

As a side note, my original ancestor in the Americas came here after being awarded an Irish estate for meritorious service under Oliver Cromwell he discovered that the estate that he had been given was in fact taken from an Irishman by Cromwell. My ancestor decided that he'd rather to emigrate to America. His original farm was on what is now Constitution Plaza in Hartford, Conn. and subsequent generations moved up the Conn. River into what is now Western Mass. The lands there were purchased from the Agawam tribe and the Norwottuck tribe by my ancestors. Anything else you'd like to accuse my family of?

Yes. Swindling the Native Americans out of their land. Also lying about them being the first settlers when there were other people there already.

The area that we're talking about was loosely held by a number of Indian nations that were at war with each other. My ancestors moved into that area and bought farm land from the local tribes. I can only assume that you're convinced a swindle took place because you think the Indians were incapable of putting a value on land?

No but close. Native Americans believed the land was for everyone to use. They didnt believe in ownership in the same way Europeans did and whites knew that. What did your ancestors give them? Blankets laced with small pox or a keg?

 

[Oldstyle]

So you are saying the land was not Native American land? Are you saying that your ancestors came over here before there was any type of European presence in place?

When my ancestors first got to America...ownership of lands was "fluid" at best. The Dutch, the English, the Mohawk and the Mahican tribes all vied for control of lands between the Conn. River and the Hudson River. My ancestors paid for farm land from the local tribes but that did not protect them from attacks by others who could have cared less about the legality of their title.

Give me a break. You and I both know they swindled the natives out of their land and had the government back them up once the natives realized what happened.

Sigh, this is like talking about quantum physics with a 3rd grader...

What "government" would you be speaking of? Control of that land was not held by any European nation yet. The English, Dutch and then the French would be fighting over it for another hundred plus years. It's becoming obvious that you know next to nothing about the history of your own country. That's sad.

 

[Oldstyle]

Yes. Swindling the Native Americans out of their land. Also lying about them being the first settlers when there were other people there already.

The area that we're talking about was loosely held by a number of Indian nations that were at war with each other. My ancestors moved into that area and bought farm land from the local tribes. I can only assume that you're convinced a swindle took place because you think the Indians were incapable of putting a value on land?

No but close. Native Americans believed the land was for everyone to use. They didnt believe in ownership in the same way Europeans did and whites knew that. What did your ancestors give them? Blankets laced with small pox or a keg?

Blankets laced with small pox was Lord Jeffrey Amherst...quite some time after that. Are you REALLY sure you want to have this debate with a history major? You're going to come out on the short end...

 

[ClosedCaption]

My ancestors settled in the Conn. River Valley back in the late 1600's. They were among the first settlers in Western Massachusetts' Pioneer Valley. For generations they worked tirelessly as farmers. They didn't receive subsidies from the Government. They didn't own slaves. When the nation was divided over the topic of slavery, my Great Grandfather volunteered as an officer for a black infantry regiment at time when the Confederacy had proclaimed that any whites captured leading black troops would be hanged. My own father worked three jobs to support his family...he ran a family dairy farm, was a Fire Chief and also built houses part time each summer.

I don't know any other way to put this, Closed...your statement about "white people" is offensive to those who DID it all on their own without help and when you make it...you are an ignorant ASSHOLE!

That's a great story, thanks for sharing. So when I say white people had help...Is it your belief that I mean 100% of white people or a majority? Because if you want me to start saying "Some" "not all" etc etc and treat you like a retard. Not a real retard but a person who doesn't comprehend well. Not saying that all retards don't comprehend .....


See what I'm saying. You're going to have to find someone else to talk to if you expect me to talk like that. Then you'll complain about the PC police and we can all laugh

The "retard" here is you for lumping ALL white people together! It's as ignorant as lumping all blacks together or all Hispanics. If you had any integrity you'd realize that your statements are offensive to those whites who DID make it on their own and paid a dear price in doing so.

Ok, so find someone else to talk to if you want to debate someone with a list of qualifiers.

When I say birds fly I expect only a retard to scream "not all"....You know what I'm saying don't you?

I mean if the concept is too hard for you then find someone else to respond to or suck it up....and when I say suck it up I don't mean to literally suck something FYI.

I guess you have to deflect from my point somehow so you opt for the "not all" dodge.

 

[Asclepias]

The area that we're talking about was loosely held by a number of Indian nations that were at war with each other. My ancestors moved into that area and bought farm land from the local tribes. I can only assume that you're convinced a swindle took place because you think the Indians were incapable of putting a value on land?

No but close. Native Americans believed the land was for everyone to use. They didnt believe in ownership in the same way Europeans did and whites knew that. What did your ancestors give them? Blankets laced with small pox or a keg?

Blankets laced with small pox was Lord Jeffrey Amherst...quite some time after that. Are you REALLY sure you want to have this debate with a history major? You're going to come out on the short end...

You avoided my whole point. Your ancestors swindled the Natives out of the land. Why did they do that?

 

[Asclepias]

When my ancestors first got to America...ownership of lands was "fluid" at best. The Dutch, the English, the Mohawk and the Mahican tribes all vied for control of lands between the Conn. River and the Hudson River. My ancestors paid for farm land from the local tribes but that did not protect them from attacks by others who could have cared less about the legality of their title.

Give me a break. You and I both know they swindled the natives out of their land and had the government back them up once the natives realized what happened.

Sigh, this is like talking about quantum physics with a 3rd grader...

What "government" would you be speaking of? Control of that land was not held by any European nation yet. The English, Dutch and then the French would be fighting over it for another hundred plus years. It's becoming obvious that you know next to nothing about the history of your own country. That's sad.

Do I have to spell it out for you? Whatever group of Europeans riding around with guns protected your ancestors "bought" land after the natives realized they had been swindled.

 

[Oldstyle]

No but close. Native Americans believed the land was for everyone to use. They didnt believe in ownership in the same way Europeans did and whites knew that. What did your ancestors give them? Blankets laced with small pox or a keg?

Blankets laced with small pox was Lord Jeffrey Amherst...quite some time after that. Are you REALLY sure you want to have this debate with a history major? You're going to come out on the short end...

You avoided my whole point. Your ancestors swindled the Natives out of the land. Why did they do that?

They didn't swindle anyone. The truth of the matter is that if the Indians HAD felt swindled they could have easily wiped out the early settlers. There was little protection from the European nations claiming parts of the New World as their own. If you were an early settler then you were more or less on your own. The reason that you bought the land rather than just squatted on it was to buy the "protection" of the local tribe. You'd be suicidal to do anything else.

 

[Oldstyle]

Give me a break. You and I both know they swindled the natives out of their land and had the government back them up once the natives realized what happened.

Sigh, this is like talking about quantum physics with a 3rd grader...

What "government" would you be speaking of? Control of that land was not held by any European nation yet. The English, Dutch and then the French would be fighting over it for another hundred plus years. It's becoming obvious that you know next to nothing about the history of your own country. That's sad.

Do I have to spell it out for you? Whatever group of Europeans riding around with guns protected your ancestors "bought" land after the natives realized they had been swindled.

LOL...you are utterly CLUELESS as to what conditions were for the early settlers in America. You seem to think there were armed Europeans riding around ready to attack the native Indians if they got "uppity". Sorry, but that's not the way it was.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Blankets laced with small pox was Lord Jeffrey Amherst...quite some time after that. Are you REALLY sure you want to have this debate with a history major? You're going to come out on the short end...

You avoided my whole point. Your ancestors swindled the Natives out of the land. Why did they do that?

They didn't swindle anyone. The truth of the matter is that if the Indians HAD felt swindled they could have easily wiped out the early settlers. There was little protection from the European nations claiming parts of the New World as their own. If you were an early settler then you were more or less on your own. The reason that you bought the land rather than just squatted on it was to buy the "protection" of the local tribe. You'd be suicidal to do anything else.

Get this logic: They didn't feel swindled because they didn't kill everyone. That means they felt treated fairly

What?

 

[S.J.]

None of this bickering changes the fact that blacks are the only race in this country that have not been able to overcome the disadvantages of being in the minority. They have been promoted, elevated, subsidized, supported, handed everything, but are STILL on the bottom rung of society. They've run out of excuses and Whitey is getting tired of holding their hand. They are helpless.

 

[Asclepias]

Blankets laced with small pox was Lord Jeffrey Amherst...quite some time after that. Are you REALLY sure you want to have this debate with a history major? You're going to come out on the short end...

You avoided my whole point. Your ancestors swindled the Natives out of the land. Why did they do that?

They didn't swindle anyone. The truth of the matter is that if the Indians HAD felt swindled they could have easily wiped out the early settlers. There was little protection from the European nations claiming parts of the New World as their own. If you were an early settler then you were more or less on your own. The reason that you bought the land rather than just squatted on it was to buy the "protection" of the local tribe. You'd be suicidal to do anything else.

They probably didnt feel swindled until your ancestors showed them a land deed and some guns and told them they couldnt trespass anymore. By then it was too late for them to do something about it. I know whites acted nice then but was just the first step in stealing the land. Odds are your family gave them a pallet of muskrat skins and a keg. They thought you whites were nice but weird because they knew the land was for everyone