50 years later: has government dependency helped or hurt blacks?

[ClosedCaption]

None of this bickering changes the fact that blacks are the only race in this country that have not been able to overcome the disadvantages of being in the minority. They have been promoted, elevated, subsidized, supported, handed everything, but are STILL on the bottom rung of society. They've run out of excuses and Whitey is getting tired of holding their hand. They are helpless.

They also live in Neverland and ride cotton candy buses since we're just making shit up

 

[Asclepias]

None of this bickering changes the fact that blacks are the only race in this country that have not been able to overcome the disadvantages of being in the minority. They have been promoted, elevated, subsidized, supported, handed everything, but are STILL on the bottom rung of society. They've run out of excuses and Whitey is getting tired of holding their hand. They are helpless.

They also live in Neverland and ride cotton candy buses since we're just making shit up

He says he is tired of it. I wonder what he is going to do about it?

 

[Godboy]

Yes. Swindling the Native Americans out of their land. Also lying about them being the first settlers when there were other people there already.

The area that we're talking about was loosely held by a number of Indian nations that were at war with each other. My ancestors moved into that area and bought farm land from the local tribes. I can only assume that you're convinced a swindle took place because you think the Indians were incapable of putting a value on land?

No but close. Native Americans believed the land was for everyone to use. They didnt believe in ownership in the same way Europeans did and whites knew that. What did your ancestors give them? Blankets laced with small pox or a keg?

Then why did they tribes constantly slaughter each other? Indians were terrible people people with a terrible culture. Why romanticize a barbaric culture that burns people alive and takes women captives to be used as sex slaves?

 

[Asclepias]

The area that we're talking about was loosely held by a number of Indian nations that were at war with each other. My ancestors moved into that area and bought farm land from the local tribes. I can only assume that you're convinced a swindle took place because you think the Indians were incapable of putting a value on land?

No but close. Native Americans believed the land was for everyone to use. They didnt believe in ownership in the same way Europeans did and whites knew that. What did your ancestors give them? Blankets laced with small pox or a keg?

Then why did they tribes constantly slaughter each other? Indians were terrible people people with a terrible culture. Why romanticize a barbaric culture that burns people alive and takes women captives to be used as sex slaves?

Because they were human? Also despite what European scholars have led you to believe, war was the very last option tribes took in dealing with issues. Its beyond white peoples comprehension that you would go to war over anything else but to steal land. Dont take what the white historians say as gospel. They had a vested interest in making it look bad for whatever race they were stealing from.

 

[Unkotare]

No white people pushed blacks into certain areas and blacks weren't allowed to purchase in white areas. Then you add in the FACT that white people got all sorts of handouts AFTER stepping up on the backs of govt AND slaves and for some reason you believe that the Slave owners and slaves should be the same place in life after all the benes you received.

Its really easy to get up the ladder, kick it over then tell everyone else to try harder.

Its funny when white people claim they did it all on their own without help.

My ancestors settled in the Conn. River Valley back in the late 1600's. They were among the first settlers in Western Massachusetts' Pioneer Valley. For generations they worked tirelessly as farmers. They didn't receive subsidies from the Government. They didn't own slaves. When the nation was divided over the topic of slavery, my Great Grandfather volunteered as an officer for a black infantry regiment at time when the Confederacy had proclaimed that any whites captured leading black troops would be hanged. My own father worked three jobs to support his family...he ran a family dairy farm, was a Fire Chief and also built houses part time each summer.

I don't know any other way to put this, Closed...your statement about "white people" is offensive to those who DID it all on their own without help and when you make it...you are an ignorant ASSHOLE!

They werent among the first settlers. Thats BS. Why did your family accept land that belonged rightfully to someone else? Are you saying they did not know the US government stole that land from Native Americans?

There was no US government at that time, was there genius? And many Native American tribes did not live according to concepts such as the private ownership of land the way we understand it today. Many different tribes moved in and out of territories on seasonal and cyclical patterns and overlapped with other tribes (with whom they - being human - frequently warred). Think before you post. The irresistible urge to be dramatic doesn't excuse being stupid.

 

[Unkotare]

Did I say any of those things, you filthy liar?

Well CC? Did I, you filthy liar? Hiding from your offensive comments instead of addressing or retracting them like a decent human being?

Waste of time, Unk.

.

I know, but I'm an optimist.

 

[Unkotare]

Why did your family accept land that belonged rightfully to someone else? Are you saying they did not know the US government stole that land from Native Americans?

You need to go back to history class, Mensa Man...the US government didn't exist when my family started farming in this country.

So you are saying the land was not Native American land? Are you saying that your ancestors came over here before there was any type of European presence in place?

Are those goal posts heavy? Do you need help moving them?

 

[Oldstyle]

You avoided my whole point. Your ancestors swindled the Natives out of the land. Why did they do that?

They didn't swindle anyone. The truth of the matter is that if the Indians HAD felt swindled they could have easily wiped out the early settlers. There was little protection from the European nations claiming parts of the New World as their own. If you were an early settler then you were more or less on your own. The reason that you bought the land rather than just squatted on it was to buy the "protection" of the local tribe. You'd be suicidal to do anything else.

They probably didnt feel swindled until your ancestors showed them a land deed and some guns and told them they couldnt trespass anymore. By then it was too late for them to do something about it. I know whites acted nice then but was just the first step in stealing the land. Odds are your family gave them a pallet of muskrat skins and a keg. They thought you whites were nice but weird because they knew the land was for everyone

The odds are better than my ancestors gave them what the Indians determined was fair market value for that land. Things like metal hatchets, cloth and metal pots were incredibly valuable in the Americas because they had to be imported. Basically things that the Indians couldn't make themselves held great value. That doesn't mean they felt swindled because they exchanged something that was in great supply...land...for something that was scarce. In truth the Indians probably felt they were coming out way ahead on the deal.

 

[Asclepias]

My ancestors settled in the Conn. River Valley back in the late 1600's. They were among the first settlers in Western Massachusetts' Pioneer Valley. For generations they worked tirelessly as farmers. They didn't receive subsidies from the Government. They didn't own slaves. When the nation was divided over the topic of slavery, my Great Grandfather volunteered as an officer for a black infantry regiment at time when the Confederacy had proclaimed that any whites captured leading black troops would be hanged. My own father worked three jobs to support his family...he ran a family dairy farm, was a Fire Chief and also built houses part time each summer.

I don't know any other way to put this, Closed...your statement about "white people" is offensive to those who DID it all on their own without help and when you make it...you are an ignorant ASSHOLE!

They werent among the first settlers. Thats BS. Why did your family accept land that belonged rightfully to someone else? Are you saying they did not know the US government stole that land from Native Americans?

There was no US government at that time, was there genius? And many Native American tribes did not live according to concepts such as the private ownership of land the way we understand it today. Many different tribes moved in and out of territories on seasonal and cyclical patterns and overlapped with other tribes (with whom they - being human - frequently warred). Think before you post. The irresistible urge to be dramatic doesn't excuse being stupid.

Thats why it makes so much sense they bought the land right?

 

[Unkotare]

Did I say any of those things, you filthy liar?

Well CC? Did I, you filthy liar? Hiding from your offensive comments instead of addressing or retracting them like a decent human being?

Back to that One Trick huh? LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR!!...

If you don't enjoy hearing it, then don't lie. Pretty simple, even for someone with your evident limitations. If you want to ask a serious question then do so. If you want to cast vile accusations then fuck off. If you want to blatantly lie or imply untrue things about me you're going to hear about it. If that's too tough to take then choose your words more carefully, little precious.

 

[Asclepias]

They didn't swindle anyone. The truth of the matter is that if the Indians HAD felt swindled they could have easily wiped out the early settlers. There was little protection from the European nations claiming parts of the New World as their own. If you were an early settler then you were more or less on your own. The reason that you bought the land rather than just squatted on it was to buy the "protection" of the local tribe. You'd be suicidal to do anything else.

They probably didnt feel swindled until your ancestors showed them a land deed and some guns and told them they couldnt trespass anymore. By then it was too late for them to do something about it. I know whites acted nice then but was just the first step in stealing the land. Odds are your family gave them a pallet of muskrat skins and a keg. They thought you whites were nice but weird because they knew the land was for everyone

The odds are better than my ancestors gave them what the Indians determined was fair market value for that land. Things like metal hatchets, cloth and metal pots were incredibly valuable in the Americas because they had to be imported. Basically things that the Indians couldn't make themselves held great value. That doesn't mean they felt swindled because they exchanged something that was in great supply...land...for something that was scarce. In truth the Indians probably felt they were coming out way ahead on the deal.

That was pretty much the intent and par for the course. Give the savages some trinkets in exchange for the state of Massachusetts. Everyone was happy until the white boys pulled out their land deeds later on down the road. Are you really trying to say some axes and metal pots was fair exchange for some land that the natives would not have sold if they understood what was going on?

 

[Unkotare]

Well CC? Did I, you filthy liar? Hiding from your offensive comments instead of addressing or retracting them like a decent human being?

Back to that One Trick huh? LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR!!

What did you say Unk? What did you mean unk? Whats your stance Unk?

Even an open ended question like that will be avoided...

He does that because he knows that he is a liar and lacks character to boot. Of course he will accuse everyone else of the same thing. its all he knows.

Wow, you sounded exactly like JakeFakey just then.





That is not a compliment...

 

[Unkotare]

Give me a break. You and I both know ...

Is that what you consider a compelling argument? I apologize to boxes of rocks everywhere for saying earlier that you are as dumb as a box of rocks.

 

[Unkotare]

They werent among the first settlers. Thats BS. Why did your family accept land that belonged rightfully to someone else? Are you saying they did not know the US government stole that land from Native Americans?

There was no US government at that time, was there genius? And many Native American tribes did not live according to concepts such as the private ownership of land the way we understand it today. Many different tribes moved in and out of territories on seasonal and cyclical patterns and overlapped with other tribes (with whom they - being human - frequently warred). Think before you post. The irresistible urge to be dramatic doesn't excuse being stupid.

Thats why it makes so much sense they bought the land right?

Yes, because European settlers DID live according to such concepts.

 

[Asclepias]

There was no US government at that time, was there genius? And many Native American tribes did not live according to concepts such as the private ownership of land the way we understand it today. Many different tribes moved in and out of territories on seasonal and cyclical patterns and overlapped with other tribes (with whom they - being human - frequently warred). Think before you post. The irresistible urge to be dramatic doesn't excuse being stupid.

Thats why it makes so much sense they bought the land right?

Yes, because European settlers DID live according to such concepts.

No they pretended to think like the natives until they got enough fire power to enforce their true beliefs. Oldstyle is trying to claim his ancestors bought the land. According to you thats not possible. Which one of you are lying?

 

[Asclepias]

Back to that One Trick huh? LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR!!

What did you say Unk? What did you mean unk? Whats your stance Unk?

Even an open ended question like that will be avoided...

He does that because he knows that he is a liar and lacks character to boot. Of course he will accuse everyone else of the same thing. its all he knows.

Wow, you sounded exactly like JakeFakey just then.





That is not a compliment...

That guy must have you pegged then. i need to meet him.

 

[squeeze berry]

No but close. Native Americans believed the land was for everyone to use. They didnt believe in ownership in the same way Europeans did and whites knew that. What did your ancestors give them? Blankets laced with small pox or a keg?

Blankets laced with small pox was Lord Jeffrey Amherst...quite some time after that. Are you REALLY sure you want to have this debate with a history major? You're going to come out on the short end...

You avoided my whole point. Your ancestors swindled the Natives out of the land. Why did they do that?

why did your ancestors sell your ancestors into slavery?

 

[Unkotare]

Thats why it makes so much sense they bought the land right?

Yes, because European settlers DID live according to such concepts.

No they pretended to think like the natives until they got enough fire power to enforce their true beliefs. Oldstyle is trying to claim his ancestors bought the land. According to you thats not possible. Which one of you are lying?

What part of "European settlers DID live according to such concepts" did you not understand?

 

[Unkotare]

He does that because he knows that he is a liar and lacks character to boot. Of course he will accuse everyone else of the same thing. its all he knows.

Wow, you sounded exactly like JakeFakey just then.





That is not a compliment...

That guy must have you pegged then. i need to meet him.

I'm sure you'd get along swimmingly. You seem to be roughly intellectual equals.

 

[Asclepias]

Yes, because European settlers DID live according to such concepts.

No they pretended to think like the natives until they got enough fire power to enforce their true beliefs. Oldstyle is trying to claim his ancestors bought the land. According to you thats not possible. Which one of you are lying?

What part of "European settlers DID live according to such concepts" did you not understand?

The part were they pulled out a land deed and told the Natives they were trespassing.