5'2", 110lbs. Can you handle him?

[Dr Grump]

I don't like grumps. Never did. I think they're pushy, arrogant, and aggressive. They TRY and get you mad, just so they can rough you up.

You think I like to rough people up???

 

[007]

I don't like grumps. Never did. I think they're pushy, arrogant, and aggressive. They TRY and get you mad, just so they can rough you up.

You think I like to rough people up???

You like to instigate, that's for sure...

 

[HUGGY]

No, the stupid thing is that the cops get in trouble no matter how they handle a situation.

Do they make saddles for fence riders?

 

[Dr Grump]

You like to instigate, that's for sure...

No, they like to stomp them...

 

[007]

You like to instigate, that's for sure...

No, they like to stomp them...

Wha... I thought we were talking about you...

And the threads about cops killing a little boy... why did you feel as though you had to start shit in it?

 

[KittenKoder]

Okay, here is the only possible way it could have gone better (beside the kid NOT running from them in the first fucking place):

The officers would have had to have ESP and known that ...

1. The kid was not armed.

2. The kid was somehow DD.

3. The kid had to have a condition making the taser deadly.

4. The kid was actually innocent and just scared instead of a junky high on something and guilty as hell.

Yeah ... what dream world is this again?

Boy you just won't listen about special needs people, will you?

Two grown, trained cops could have apprehended him without the use of a taser. They were within what, 50 feet of him with guns on him? Did the kid pull a weapon? You mean one cop couldn't keep a gun on the kid while the other cop grabbed him? If they believed he had a weapon they could have shot him in the leg then cuffed him. Hole int he leg, but alive.

Were the cops who were back with the cousin in contact with the cops who were chasing the kid? The cousin would have said that the kid was learning disabled . . . . why wouldn't the cops have relayed this information to the two cops?

Really, and how were the cops suppose to know all this? They use to do the "shoot in the leg" ... but *gasp* people die from that to, duh. They got sued too many times.

Do you ever think about more than the kid? Whenever they chase a perp there is more at stake than just the perps life. Most of the time there is a weapon on the perp, and tackling would put their lives in danger, period, then they would have had to shoot him dead most likely anyway. Chasing a perp is about chance and risk, they are not mind readers, they are not omniscient, they don't know what could and will happen, so they are trained to use techniques with the least danger to everyone, even the perps, involved. If you can find a better technique then have at it, otherwise you are just demonizing for no reason. Chances are just that, chances, there is always a risk, and they used the method with the least risk of causing things to go even worse, like oh ... the cops getting killed to, maybe a few other innocent people from stray bullets if the kid just happened to be a crack head with a gun ... you are only seeing the outcome and not considering anything about the possibilities, something that police have to consider with every stop, every questioning. There are people who try to kill cops just because they don't like them, their lives are in danger all the fucking time, and many of them die trying to "be nice" to perps, and this was being nice.

 

[Sweet Willy]

[You fail to concede even the most obvious. You are either extremely dense or you are intentionally obtuse.

The very first, and very obvious way this could have gone better is for the kid NOT TO BE DEAD.

I'm sure the cops didn't want him dead.

He shouldn't have run, and I don't think the rest of us have a right to judge something in a situation none of us were in. It's easy to sit and dissect something after the event. I have been in court whereby both the defense and prosecution, combined, spent over 5 hours talking about an incident that was done and dusted in 45 seconds...

I agree that running is not the thing to do.

The taser stuff is just out of hand. Like I have presented here, the makers and the cops are using misleading stats to convince people that these things are non lethal. If a taser cuases a heart attack, the cause of death will be listed as a heart attack, not electrocution by taser. Knock someone off a ledge with a taser and the cause of death is head trauma. Even with spotters catching cops who are hit in training, many people convulse hard enough to break their own backs and shoulders.

In any event, when we have reached the point that cops go for a taser on a 110lb kid, something is wrong. I watched some taser videos last night and their use is way too loose. They are being used on people for beligerience. Sure, the poeple are cursing and carrying on, drunk many times and they look like the fools they are. It's easy enough to say they deserved it. But they really don't. We pay the cops to handle that situation and deal with that stuff. A woman cuffed, in a booking room, completely comntrolled situation, no question of weapons, tasered to the floor. Bullshit.

 

[Dr Grump]

You like to instigate, that's for sure...

No, they like to stomp them...

Wha... I thought we were talking about you...

And the threads about cops killing a little boy... why did you feel as though you had to start shit in it?

Hey, you're the one who dissed cops (and me being an ex sorta riled me a little)..

As for the little boy...well, it is a tragedy no doubt about it. These things happen from time to time...and sometimes they are just tragedies. There are no winners in this...

 

[KittenKoder]

[You fail to concede even the most obvious. You are either extremely dense or you are intentionally obtuse.

The very first, and very obvious way this could have gone better is for the kid NOT TO BE DEAD.

I'm sure the cops didn't want him dead.

He shouldn't have run, and I don't think the rest of us have a right to judge something in a situation none of us were in. It's easy to sit and dissect something after the event. I have been in court whereby both the defense and prosecution, combined, spent over 5 hours talking about an incident that was done and dusted in 45 seconds...

I agree that running is not the thing to do.

The taser stuff is just out of hand. Like I have presented here, the makers and the cops are using misleading stats to convince people that these things are non lethal. If a taser cuases a heart attack, the cause of death will be listed as a heart attack, not electrocution by taser. Knock someone off a ledge with a taser and the cause of death is head trauma. Even with spotters catching cops who are hit in training, many people convulse hard enough to break their own backs and shoulders.

In any event, when we have reached the point that cops go for a taser on a 110lb kid, something is wrong. I watched some taser videos last night and their use is way too loose. They are being used on people for beligerience. Sure, the poeple are cursing and carrying on, drunk many times and they look like the fools they are. It's easy enough to say they deserved it. But they really don't. We pay the cops to handle that situation and deal with that stuff. A woman cuffed, in a booking room, completely comntrolled situation, no question of weapons, tasered to the floor. Bullshit.

Only 47 die per year of the thousands tasered ... totaling 330 in 8 years ... oh yeah, that's really "deadly force".

 

[Zoom-boing]

Okay, here is the only possible way it could have gone better (beside the kid NOT running from them in the first fucking place):

The officers would have had to have ESP and known that ...

1. The kid was not armed.

2. The kid was somehow DD.

3. The kid had to have a condition making the taser deadly.

4. The kid was actually innocent and just scared instead of a junky high on something and guilty as hell.

Yeah ... what dream world is this again?

Boy you just won't listen about special needs people, will you?

Two grown, trained cops could have apprehended him without the use of a taser. They were within what, 50 feet of him with guns on him? Did the kid pull a weapon? You mean one cop couldn't keep a gun on the kid while the other cop grabbed him? If they believed he had a weapon they could have shot him in the leg then cuffed him. Hole int he leg, but alive.

Were the cops who were back with the cousin in contact with the cops who were chasing the kid? The cousin would have said that the kid was learning disabled . . . . why wouldn't the cops have relayed this information to the two cops?

Really, and how were the cops suppose to know all this? They use to do the "shoot in the leg" ... but *gasp* people die from that to, duh. They got sued too many times.

Do you ever think about more than the kid? Whenever they chase a perp there is more at stake than just the perps life. Most of the time there is a weapon on the perp, and tackling would put their lives in danger, period, then they would have had to shoot him dead most likely anyway. Chasing a perp is about chance and risk, they are not mind readers, they are not omniscient, they don't know what could and will happen, so they are trained to use techniques with the least danger to everyone, even the perps, involved. If you can find a better technique then have at it, otherwise you are just demonizing for no reason. Chances are just that, chances, there is always a risk, and they used the method with the least risk of causing things to go even worse, like oh ... the cops getting killed to, maybe a few other innocent people from stray bullets if the kid just happened to be a crack head with a gun ... you are only seeing the outcome and not considering anything about the possibilities, something that police have to consider with every stop, every questioning. There are people who try to kill cops just because they don't like them, their lives are in danger all the fucking time, and many of them die trying to "be nice" to perps, and this was being nice.

Did the kid pull a weapon on the cops? No. Could one cop have kept a gun on the kid while the other cop cautiously approached him? Yes. Could the cop approaching have grabbed the kid and shoved him to the ground? Yes. Could the cop then have cuffed him? Yes. Would the outcome have been different? Don't know. Were the cops back with the cousin - who would have told them that the kid was LD - in contact with the two cops chasing the kid? Likely. Wouldn't they have relayed that info to the cops? Yes.

No one is looking for 100% anything and I'm not 'demonizing' the cops here. Simply stating that, based on my personal experience of restraining a kid this age and size by myself, that I believe two grown, trained cops could have handled it differently and that the outcome would have likely been a live kid.

 

[Sweet Willy]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQXoczxzwYk&feature=related]YouTube - Police Taser Woman[/ame]

 

[007]

[You fail to concede even the most obvious. You are either extremely dense or you are intentionally obtuse.

The very first, and very obvious way this could have gone better is for the kid NOT TO BE DEAD.

I'm sure the cops didn't want him dead.

He shouldn't have run, and I don't think the rest of us have a right to judge something in a situation none of us were in. It's easy to sit and dissect something after the event. I have been in court whereby both the defense and prosecution, combined, spent over 5 hours talking about an incident that was done and dusted in 45 seconds...

I agree that running is not the thing to do.

The taser stuff is just out of hand. Like I have presented here, the makers and the cops are using misleading stats to convince people that these things are non lethal. If a taser cuases a heart attack, the cause of death will be listed as a heart attack, not electrocution by taser. Knock someone off a ledge with a taser and the cause of death is head trauma. Even with spotters catching cops who are hit in training, many people convulse hard enough to break their own backs and shoulders.

In any event, when we have reached the point that cops go for a taser on a 110lb kid, something is wrong. I watched some taser videos last night and their use is way too loose. They are being used on people for beligerience. Sure, the poeple are cursing and carrying on, drunk many times and they look like the fools they are. It's easy enough to say they deserved it. But they really don't. We pay the cops to handle that situation and deal with that stuff. A woman cuffed, in a booking room, completely comntrolled situation, no question of weapons, tasered to the floor. Bullshit.

You can buy tasers on ebay, some of which have upwards of half a million volts. Granted voltage doesn't kill a person, amperage does, and they have very low amperage. However lightening doesn't have any current either to speak of. But when the voltage gets that high, it can disrupt your brain waves and body functions to the point where it can cause death, and what I see these cops using them for is just about anything. They'll pull these fucking things out and taser you for sassing them. It's out of control. What the hell did these pigs do before tasers? There's all kinds of other means at their disposal. Non lethal rubber bullets, nets with weights they can shoot out a shot gun, bean bags, gas... they don't have to reach for this damn taser every single time it looks like their job might get a little rough. If they can't subdue a little kid, they're in the wrong line of work. They need to stop killing people with these tasers.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I'm sure the cops didn't want him dead.

He shouldn't have run, and I don't think the rest of us have a right to judge something in a situation none of us were in. It's easy to sit and dissect something after the event. I have been in court whereby both the defense and prosecution, combined, spent over 5 hours talking about an incident that was done and dusted in 45 seconds...

I agree that running is not the thing to do.

The taser stuff is just out of hand. Like I have presented here, the makers and the cops are using misleading stats to convince people that these things are non lethal. If a taser cuases a heart attack, the cause of death will be listed as a heart attack, not electrocution by taser. Knock someone off a ledge with a taser and the cause of death is head trauma. Even with spotters catching cops who are hit in training, many people convulse hard enough to break their own backs and shoulders.

In any event, when we have reached the point that cops go for a taser on a 110lb kid, something is wrong. I watched some taser videos last night and their use is way too loose. They are being used on people for beligerience. Sure, the poeple are cursing and carrying on, drunk many times and they look like the fools they are. It's easy enough to say they deserved it. But they really don't. We pay the cops to handle that situation and deal with that stuff. A woman cuffed, in a booking room, completely comntrolled situation, no question of weapons, tasered to the floor. Bullshit.

Only 47 die per year of the thousands tasered ... totaling 330 in 8 years ... oh yeah, that's really "deadly force".

It is to those 330 people.

 

[KittenKoder]

Boy you just won't listen about special needs people, will you?

Two grown, trained cops could have apprehended him without the use of a taser. They were within what, 50 feet of him with guns on him? Did the kid pull a weapon? You mean one cop couldn't keep a gun on the kid while the other cop grabbed him? If they believed he had a weapon they could have shot him in the leg then cuffed him. Hole int he leg, but alive.

Were the cops who were back with the cousin in contact with the cops who were chasing the kid? The cousin would have said that the kid was learning disabled . . . . why wouldn't the cops have relayed this information to the two cops?

Really, and how were the cops suppose to know all this? They use to do the "shoot in the leg" ... but *gasp* people die from that to, duh. They got sued too many times.

Do you ever think about more than the kid? Whenever they chase a perp there is more at stake than just the perps life. Most of the time there is a weapon on the perp, and tackling would put their lives in danger, period, then they would have had to shoot him dead most likely anyway. Chasing a perp is about chance and risk, they are not mind readers, they are not omniscient, they don't know what could and will happen, so they are trained to use techniques with the least danger to everyone, even the perps, involved. If you can find a better technique then have at it, otherwise you are just demonizing for no reason. Chances are just that, chances, there is always a risk, and they used the method with the least risk of causing things to go even worse, like oh ... the cops getting killed to, maybe a few other innocent people from stray bullets if the kid just happened to be a crack head with a gun ... you are only seeing the outcome and not considering anything about the possibilities, something that police have to consider with every stop, every questioning. There are people who try to kill cops just because they don't like them, their lives are in danger all the fucking time, and many of them die trying to "be nice" to perps, and this was being nice.

Did the kid pull a weapon on the cops? No. Could one cop have kept a gun on the kid while the other cop cautiously approached him? Yes. Could the cop approaching have grabbed the kid and shoved him to the ground? Yes. Could the cop then have cuffed him? Yes. Would the outcome have been different? Don't know. Were the cops back with the cousin - who would have told them that the kid was LD - in contact with the two cops chasing the kid? Likely. Wouldn't they have relayed that info to the cops? Yes.

No one is looking for 100% anything and I'm not 'demonizing' the cops here. Simply stating that, based on my personal experience of restraining a kid this age and size by myself, that I believe two grown, trained cops could have handled it differently and that the outcome would have likely been a live kid.

Still a high risk of the situation turning out worse ... still in dream land. That use to work, the "hold a gun on them" method, but it doesn't work most times now, thanks to people whining about these incidents and whenever a cop is forced to fire, they always get into more trouble, no matter what the situation is (man with katana got shot ... all cops on leave .... local department sued .... yeah) ... the technique they used was the lowest risk, period.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I'm sure the cops didn't want him dead.

He shouldn't have run, and I don't think the rest of us have a right to judge something in a situation none of us were in. It's easy to sit and dissect something after the event. I have been in court whereby both the defense and prosecution, combined, spent over 5 hours talking about an incident that was done and dusted in 45 seconds...

I agree that running is not the thing to do.

The taser stuff is just out of hand. Like I have presented here, the makers and the cops are using misleading stats to convince people that these things are non lethal. If a taser cuases a heart attack, the cause of death will be listed as a heart attack, not electrocution by taser. Knock someone off a ledge with a taser and the cause of death is head trauma. Even with spotters catching cops who are hit in training, many people convulse hard enough to break their own backs and shoulders.

In any event, when we have reached the point that cops go for a taser on a 110lb kid, something is wrong. I watched some taser videos last night and their use is way too loose. They are being used on people for beligerience. Sure, the poeple are cursing and carrying on, drunk many times and they look like the fools they are. It's easy enough to say they deserved it. But they really don't. We pay the cops to handle that situation and deal with that stuff. A woman cuffed, in a booking room, completely comntrolled situation, no question of weapons, tasered to the floor. Bullshit.

Only 47 die per year of the thousands tasered ... totaling 330 in 8 years ... oh yeah, that's really "deadly force".

330? That's acceptable to you? That's your whole family and all your friends.

 

[007]

No, they like to stomp them...

Wha... I thought we were talking about you...

And the threads about cops killing a little boy... why did you feel as though you had to start shit in it?

Hey, you're the one who dissed cops (and me being an ex sorta riled me a little)..

As for the little boy...well, it is a tragedy no doubt about it. These things happen from time to time...and sometimes they are just tragedies. There are no winners in this...

Well sorry about you being an ex cop, but my experiences with them have all been bad. I came by my feelings legitimately. I didn't say what I said to single you out and piss you off. Again, sorry.

But I see the taser use as completely out of control. I think law enforcement should rethink and retrain all personal on how and WHEN to use one, if it all. And if two cops can't subdue a little boy by physical force, they're both in the wrong line of work.

 

[KittenKoder]

I agree that running is not the thing to do.

The taser stuff is just out of hand. Like I have presented here, the makers and the cops are using misleading stats to convince people that these things are non lethal. If a taser cuases a heart attack, the cause of death will be listed as a heart attack, not electrocution by taser. Knock someone off a ledge with a taser and the cause of death is head trauma. Even with spotters catching cops who are hit in training, many people convulse hard enough to break their own backs and shoulders.

In any event, when we have reached the point that cops go for a taser on a 110lb kid, something is wrong. I watched some taser videos last night and their use is way too loose. They are being used on people for beligerience. Sure, the poeple are cursing and carrying on, drunk many times and they look like the fools they are. It's easy enough to say they deserved it. But they really don't. We pay the cops to handle that situation and deal with that stuff. A woman cuffed, in a booking room, completely comntrolled situation, no question of weapons, tasered to the floor. Bullshit.

Only 47 die per year of the thousands tasered ... totaling 330 in 8 years ... oh yeah, that's really "deadly force".

It is to those 330 people.

Hundreds die each year from head trauma ... a bump on the head from a fist or more, thousands from internal injuries caused by wrestling ... versus 47 each year from tasers ... yeah, really "deadly force" there. Chances are still better. Not to mention all the risk to the cops if the kid had been armed. Oh, and as for "being told by ..." garbage, they were being pulled over, how many criminals do you know are honest all the time?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Kitten, you see that woman in handcuufs fall to the floor and strike her head?

You see that? You want to continue woth your "bump on the head" routine?

 

[KittenKoder]

Kitten, you see that woman in handcuufs fall to the floor and strike her head?

You see that? You want to continue woth your "bump on the head" routine?

*yawn* Lower chance of it happening. Not everyone "goes down" when tased. Most are already on the ground and the choice is taser or beat the shit out of them.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Really, and how were the cops suppose to know all this? They use to do the "shoot in the leg" ... but *gasp* people die from that to, duh. They got sued too many times.

Do you ever think about more than the kid? Whenever they chase a perp there is more at stake than just the perps life. Most of the time there is a weapon on the perp, and tackling would put their lives in danger, period, then they would have had to shoot him dead most likely anyway. Chasing a perp is about chance and risk, they are not mind readers, they are not omniscient, they don't know what could and will happen, so they are trained to use techniques with the least danger to everyone, even the perps, involved. If you can find a better technique then have at it, otherwise you are just demonizing for no reason. Chances are just that, chances, there is always a risk, and they used the method with the least risk of causing things to go even worse, like oh ... the cops getting killed to, maybe a few other innocent people from stray bullets if the kid just happened to be a crack head with a gun ... you are only seeing the outcome and not considering anything about the possibilities, something that police have to consider with every stop, every questioning. There are people who try to kill cops just because they don't like them, their lives are in danger all the fucking time, and many of them die trying to "be nice" to perps, and this was being nice.

Did the kid pull a weapon on the cops? No. Could one cop have kept a gun on the kid while the other cop cautiously approached him? Yes. Could the cop approaching have grabbed the kid and shoved him to the ground? Yes. Could the cop then have cuffed him? Yes. Would the outcome have been different? Don't know. Were the cops back with the cousin - who would have told them that the kid was LD - in contact with the two cops chasing the kid? Likely. Wouldn't they have relayed that info to the cops? Yes.

No one is looking for 100% anything and I'm not 'demonizing' the cops here. Simply stating that, based on my personal experience of restraining a kid this age and size by myself, that I believe two grown, trained cops could have handled it differently and that the outcome would have likely been a live kid.

Still a high risk of the situation turning out worse ... still in dream land. That use to work, the "hold a gun on them" method, but it doesn't work most times now, thanks to people whining about these incidents and whenever a cop is forced to fire, they always get into more trouble, no matter what the situation is (man with katana got shot ... all cops on leave .... local department sued .... yeah) ... the technique they used was the lowest risk, period.

"Still a high risk of the sitation turning out worse" Worse? The kid is dead.

So .... because people whine about cops doing their job, the cops stop doing their job? Please. Holding a gun on someone who had not pulled a weapon while another cop cautiously approaches them does work. All the time? No. Worth the risk? Yes. A better choice in this situation? Yes. Guaranteed positive outcome? No guarantees in life, we all know that. Likely better outcome (that would be an alive kid)? Yes.