5'2", 110lbs. Can you handle him?

[Zoom-boing]

You haven't read the whole thread then, we covered that.

And the verdict was?

1. No one innocent runs from cops, unless the parents really screwed up and didn't explain to them what the cops jobs are.

2. the cops have to protect everyone, not just one person, thus if someone runs (which is against the law to begin with) they have a good reason to want to check to be sure they don't pose a threat to others, thus, they have to pursue by law because of point 1.

3. They had no way of knowing why the kid ran or what the kid had done, thus, they used a taser which generally has the lowest risk of danger to both them (would you want to tackle someone you don't know and hope they don't have a gun or knife) and the perp.

From the information in the article this kid had no previous criminal record and hadn't done anything wrong. Therefore, he was innocent . . . and he ran from the cops. So to give a blanket statement of 'no one innocent runs from cops' is crap.

And you're claiming that if an innocent person does run, it must be the parent's fault for not explaining to them what a cop's job entails? Yeah, that's the reason this kid ran; had nothing to do with the fact that he is learning disabled and was, according to his cousin, petrified . . . . right?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Let's walk through this real slow kitten.

You have stated the dangers of tackling a person to the ground.
Do you understand that a taser sends someone to the ground?

You have stated the dangers of a bump on the head.
Do you understand the probablity of a bump on the head from a taser stun?

I mentioned the kid that fell of the ledge froma taser stun.
Do you think it's ok for cops to push suspects off a ledge?

 

[Ravi]

Cops do not "inspire fear" ... media does and criminals do. Get to know your local cops, I did, and I live in a big city with a force of hundreds. They are decent people, with the same cares and flaws everyone else has. They are not what you see in movies, barely what the TV shows depict them as. They are ... people, just like us, and most don't want to do their jobs at all if they don't have to, why, because every incident that they have to so much as investigate comes with a ton of paper work. Most get into the career because they want to help, not because they like chasing, arresting, or any other negative enforcement duty. The media rarely covers the good they do in the neighborhoods and almost always shows their mistakes, no matter how inane or small, they are always hyped beyond belief. Talk to them, get to know them. This "mean bad cop" image is generally spread by the uninformed, the criminals, and people who were not taught well. Respect is what they deserve, peace is all they ask for.

I'm not talking about the media's image of them. They deserve respect, that doesn't mean people don't fear them. Cops make mistakes just like anyone else, having a gun and a badge doesn't make you perfect and any honest cop understands this and any good police force trains their cops to be the best they can be.

You crack me up, seriously.

People fear them because of the image from the media and what criminals say about them, as I said, you get to know them personally and you will not think like that at all.

Of course they make mistakes, so do a lot of doctors, rescue workers, fire fighters, NASA, but cops are the only ones being demonized for this and yet ... without them things would be a hell of a lot worse. Every time the cops do their best and get demonized for it, they feel less compelled to do their jobs. You are missing the point completely, they did what their training told them, which was decided by the people they work for. The accidental death is not their fault, there was a lot they could not have known, and they acted accordingly. If the kid was a gang banger and they tried to tackle him, they'd ALL be dead most likely, but with a taser, they all have a higher chance of walking away from it, period. You can't argue that. It is against the law to resist arrest (run from them), they are suppose to uphold the law, period, and are not suppose to let a possible risk to the public have the opportunity to harm others. Many times the cops let people off with "just a warning", basically avoiding more paper work since the offense is too small and no danger to others, but you don't hear about those.

Stop finding excuses to demonize them, start getting involved or just accept it. Unless you get involved in their lives and duties you have no room to complain, and if you did get involved with them on positive ground you would be on my side of the issue.

These two didn't do their best. Knowing cops personally doesn't mean that all cops are intelligent and able to react under pressure. Not sure what planet you live on...and the media has nothing to do with perfectly innocent people fearing authority figures. Just the nature of life.

 

[KittenKoder]

And the verdict was?

1. No one innocent runs from cops, unless the parents really screwed up and didn't explain to them what the cops jobs are.

2. the cops have to protect everyone, not just one person, thus if someone runs (which is against the law to begin with) they have a good reason to want to check to be sure they don't pose a threat to others, thus, they have to pursue by law because of point 1.

3. They had no way of knowing why the kid ran or what the kid had done, thus, they used a taser which generally has the lowest risk of danger to both them (would you want to tackle someone you don't know and hope they don't have a gun or knife) and the perp.

From the information in the article this kid had no previous criminal record and hadn't done anything wrong. Therefore, he was innocent . . . and he ran from the cops. So to give a blanket statement of 'no one innocent runs from cops' is crap.

And you're claiming that if an innocent person does run, it must be the parent's fault for not explaining to them what a cop's job entails? Yeah, that's the reason this kid ran; had nothing to do with the fact that he is learning disabled and was, according to his cousin, petrified . . . . right?

Learning disability does not mean stupid. I know many dyslexic people who are very intelligent and know right from wrong, and also know you don't run from the cops. Retarded people generally are taught that cops are the ones who they should turn to. There are many others I can show the same correlation. Fact is, he was either guilty of something or someone had demonized the police to him, period. Innocent people who know what cops are do NOT run from the police, period. Yes, it is the parents responsibility to teach their kids, no one elses.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Do cops also carry pepper spray? If they don't, they should. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of giving him a shot of pepper spray and they then could have apprehended him without the use of the taser.

 

[KittenKoder]

I'm not talking about the media's image of them. They deserve respect, that doesn't mean people don't fear them. Cops make mistakes just like anyone else, having a gun and a badge doesn't make you perfect and any honest cop understands this and any good police force trains their cops to be the best they can be.

You crack me up, seriously.

People fear them because of the image from the media and what criminals say about them, as I said, you get to know them personally and you will not think like that at all.

Of course they make mistakes, so do a lot of doctors, rescue workers, fire fighters, NASA, but cops are the only ones being demonized for this and yet ... without them things would be a hell of a lot worse. Every time the cops do their best and get demonized for it, they feel less compelled to do their jobs. You are missing the point completely, they did what their training told them, which was decided by the people they work for. The accidental death is not their fault, there was a lot they could not have known, and they acted accordingly. If the kid was a gang banger and they tried to tackle him, they'd ALL be dead most likely, but with a taser, they all have a higher chance of walking away from it, period. You can't argue that. It is against the law to resist arrest (run from them), they are suppose to uphold the law, period, and are not suppose to let a possible risk to the public have the opportunity to harm others. Many times the cops let people off with "just a warning", basically avoiding more paper work since the offense is too small and no danger to others, but you don't hear about those.

Stop finding excuses to demonize them, start getting involved or just accept it. Unless you get involved in their lives and duties you have no room to complain, and if you did get involved with them on positive ground you would be on my side of the issue.

These two didn't do their best. Knowing cops personally doesn't mean that all cops are intelligent and able to react under pressure. Not sure what planet you live on...and the media has nothing to do with perfectly innocent people fearing authority figures. Just the nature of life.

Really, how could they have done it better? ... now think about this before trying to answer.

 

[Sweet Willy]

People fear them because of the image from the media and what criminals say about them, as I said, you get to know them personally and you will not think like that at all.

Of course they make mistakes, so do a lot of doctors, rescue workers, fire fighters, NASA, but cops are the only ones being demonized for this and yet ... without them things would be a hell of a lot worse. Every time the cops do their best and get demonized for it, they feel less compelled to do their jobs. You are missing the point completely, they did what their training told them, which was decided by the people they work for. The accidental death is not their fault, there was a lot they could not have known, and they acted accordingly. If the kid was a gang banger and they tried to tackle him, they'd ALL be dead most likely, but with a taser, they all have a higher chance of walking away from it, period. You can't argue that. It is against the law to resist arrest (run from them), they are suppose to uphold the law, period, and are not suppose to let a possible risk to the public have the opportunity to harm others. Many times the cops let people off with "just a warning", basically avoiding more paper work since the offense is too small and no danger to others, but you don't hear about those.

Stop finding excuses to demonize them, start getting involved or just accept it. Unless you get involved in their lives and duties you have no room to complain, and if you did get involved with them on positive ground you would be on my side of the issue.

These two didn't do their best. Knowing cops personally doesn't mean that all cops are intelligent and able to react under pressure. Not sure what planet you live on...and the media has nothing to do with perfectly innocent people fearing authority figures. Just the nature of life.

Really, how could they have done it better? ... now think about this before trying to answer.

Really Kitten? Really?

Dead kid.

Live kid.

This is easy stuff.
You really are stuck on yourself.

 

[Zoom-boing]

1. No one innocent runs from cops, unless the parents really screwed up and didn't explain to them what the cops jobs are.

2. the cops have to protect everyone, not just one person, thus if someone runs (which is against the law to begin with) they have a good reason to want to check to be sure they don't pose a threat to others, thus, they have to pursue by law because of point 1.

3. They had no way of knowing why the kid ran or what the kid had done, thus, they used a taser which generally has the lowest risk of danger to both them (would you want to tackle someone you don't know and hope they don't have a gun or knife) and the perp.

From the information in the article this kid had no previous criminal record and hadn't done anything wrong. Therefore, he was innocent . . . and he ran from the cops. So to give a blanket statement of 'no one innocent runs from cops' is crap.

And you're claiming that if an innocent person does run, it must be the parent's fault for not explaining to them what a cop's job entails? Yeah, that's the reason this kid ran; had nothing to do with the fact that he is learning disabled and was, according to his cousin, petrified . . . . right?

Learning disability does not mean stupid. I know many dyslexic people who are very intelligent and know right from wrong, and also know you don't run from the cops. Retarded people generally are taught that cops are the ones who they should turn to. There are many others I can show the same correlation. Fact is, he was either guilty of something or someone had demonized the police to him, period. Innocent people who know what cops are do NOT run from the police, period. Yes, it is the parents responsibility to teach their kids, no one elses.

And your proof that his parent's demonized the cops is????

Fact is, he was learning disabled - which does not only mean dyslexic; it can run the gamut from retarded to autistic (varying degrees) to mental competency (varying degrees) including stupid - and he was petrified. Again you give out a blanket, black-and-white statement and never once consider the fact or ability of this kid's mental capacity.

 

[Zoom-boing]

People fear them because of the image from the media and what criminals say about them, as I said, you get to know them personally and you will not think like that at all.

Of course they make mistakes, so do a lot of doctors, rescue workers, fire fighters, NASA, but cops are the only ones being demonized for this and yet ... without them things would be a hell of a lot worse. Every time the cops do their best and get demonized for it, they feel less compelled to do their jobs. You are missing the point completely, they did what their training told them, which was decided by the people they work for. The accidental death is not their fault, there was a lot they could not have known, and they acted accordingly. If the kid was a gang banger and they tried to tackle him, they'd ALL be dead most likely, but with a taser, they all have a higher chance of walking away from it, period. You can't argue that. It is against the law to resist arrest (run from them), they are suppose to uphold the law, period, and are not suppose to let a possible risk to the public have the opportunity to harm others. Many times the cops let people off with "just a warning", basically avoiding more paper work since the offense is too small and no danger to others, but you don't hear about those.

Stop finding excuses to demonize them, start getting involved or just accept it. Unless you get involved in their lives and duties you have no room to complain, and if you did get involved with them on positive ground you would be on my side of the issue.

These two didn't do their best. Knowing cops personally doesn't mean that all cops are intelligent and able to react under pressure. Not sure what planet you live on...and the media has nothing to do with perfectly innocent people fearing authority figures. Just the nature of life.

Really, how could they have done it better? ... now think about this before trying to answer.

Do cops also carry pepper spray? If they don't, they should. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of giving him a shot of pepper spray and they then could have apprehended him without the use of the taser. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of grabbing him and bringing him to the ground and cuffing him. As previously stated, I by myself have done this with a kid the exact age, height and weight as this kid. If I can do this, two trained cops would certainly be able to. They misjudged the situation and chose the wrong course of action and a 16 year old boy is now dead.

 

[KittenKoder]

These two didn't do their best. Knowing cops personally doesn't mean that all cops are intelligent and able to react under pressure. Not sure what planet you live on...and the media has nothing to do with perfectly innocent people fearing authority figures. Just the nature of life.

Really, how could they have done it better? ... now think about this before trying to answer.

Really Kitten? Really?

Dead kid.

Live kid.

This is easy stuff.
You really are stuck on yourself.

Really, so how, while maintaining the law and doing their job, would they have prevented it with a minimum danger to themselves and the kid? If you think it's that simple then you will have a good answer for this, but fair warning, think REALLY hard before trying to answer, I guarantee anything you post short of scifi will be ripped to shreds.

 

[KittenKoder]

These two didn't do their best. Knowing cops personally doesn't mean that all cops are intelligent and able to react under pressure. Not sure what planet you live on...and the media has nothing to do with perfectly innocent people fearing authority figures. Just the nature of life.

Really, how could they have done it better? ... now think about this before trying to answer.

Do cops also carry pepper spray? If they don't, they should. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of giving him a shot of pepper spray and they then could have apprehended him without the use of the taser.

They tried that, a few allergic reactions resulted in a few deaths and people whined about that so they had to try something else, which is what lead into the taser guns.

 

[KittenKoder]

From the information in the article this kid had no previous criminal record and hadn't done anything wrong. Therefore, he was innocent . . . and he ran from the cops. So to give a blanket statement of 'no one innocent runs from cops' is crap.

And you're claiming that if an innocent person does run, it must be the parent's fault for not explaining to them what a cop's job entails? Yeah, that's the reason this kid ran; had nothing to do with the fact that he is learning disabled and was, according to his cousin, petrified . . . . right?

Learning disability does not mean stupid. I know many dyslexic people who are very intelligent and know right from wrong, and also know you don't run from the cops. Retarded people generally are taught that cops are the ones who they should turn to. There are many others I can show the same correlation. Fact is, he was either guilty of something or someone had demonized the police to him, period. Innocent people who know what cops are do NOT run from the police, period. Yes, it is the parents responsibility to teach their kids, no one elses.

And your proof that his parent's demonized the cops is????

Fact is, he was learning disabled - which does not only mean dyslexic; it can run the gamut from retarded to autistic (varying degrees) to mental competency (varying degrees) including stupid - and he was petrified. Again you give out a blanket, black-and-white statement and never once consider the fact or ability of this kid's mental capacity.

It's not a black and white statement, it's a simple fact. Someone had to have demonized the cops, there is no way a 15 year old would be clueless as to the existence or job of the police. Or, he was guilty as hell about something. Even the insane know what cops do.

 

[Sweet Willy]

These two didn't do their best. Knowing cops personally doesn't mean that all cops are intelligent and able to react under pressure. Not sure what planet you live on...and the media has nothing to do with perfectly innocent people fearing authority figures. Just the nature of life.

Really, how could they have done it better? ... now think about this before trying to answer.

Do cops also carry pepper spray? If they don't, they should. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of giving him a shot of pepper spray and they then could have apprehended him without the use of the taser.

That isn't even needed. Come on. Again, 110lbs, 5 feet 2 inches. There is no reason, absolutely none, for the cops to not handle this guy if he is unarmed. And handle him without injury. Hospital nurses have to do this all the time and they don't use tasers or mace and they don't kill the patients.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Really, how could they have done it better? ... now think about this before trying to answer.

Do cops also carry pepper spray? If they don't, they should. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of giving him a shot of pepper spray and they then could have apprehended him without the use of the taser.

They tried that, a few allergic reactions resulted in a few deaths and people whined about that so they had to try something else, which is what lead into the taser guns.

They might want to go back and revisit the pepper spray since tasers also kill.

If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of grabbing him and bringing him to the ground and cuffing him. As previously stated, I by myself have done this with a kid the exact age, height and weight as this kid. If I can do this, two trained cops would certainly be able to. They misjudged the situation and chose the wrong course of action and a 16 year old boy is now dead.

 

[KittenKoder]

Really, how could they have done it better? ... now think about this before trying to answer.

Do cops also carry pepper spray? If they don't, they should. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of giving him a shot of pepper spray and they then could have apprehended him without the use of the taser.

That isn't even needed. Come on. Again, 110lbs, 5 feet 2 inches. There is no reason, absolutely none, for the cops to not handle this guy if he is unarmed. And handle him without injury. Hospital nurses have to do this all the time and they don't use tasers or mace and they don't kill the patients.

so ... they were suppose to be psychic and tell the future in order to know whether he was armed or not. Come on, that's not even trying.

 

[KittenKoder]

Do cops also carry pepper spray? If they don't, they should. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of giving him a shot of pepper spray and they then could have apprehended him without the use of the taser.

They tried that, a few allergic reactions resulted in a few deaths and people whined about that so they had to try something else, which is what lead into the taser guns.

They might want to go back and revisit the pepper spray since tasers also kill.

If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of grabbing him and bringing him to the ground and cuffing him. As previously stated, I by myself have done this with a kid the exact age, height and weight as this kid. If I can do this, two trained cops would certainly be able to. They misjudged the situation and chose the wrong course of action and a 16 year old boy is now dead.

Taser guns fire up to 50 feet, within distance of a taser is not grappling range.

As for the pepper spray, well, it costs them millions to keep changing, and when they ask for the tax dollars to make any change or force increase people whine more. So will you be writing the next check yourself?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Do cops also carry pepper spray? If they don't, they should. If they were within distance of using a taser then they were within distance of giving him a shot of pepper spray and they then could have apprehended him without the use of the taser.

That isn't even needed. Come on. Again, 110lbs, 5 feet 2 inches. There is no reason, absolutely none, for the cops to not handle this guy if he is unarmed. And handle him without injury. Hospital nurses have to do this all the time and they don't use tasers or mace and they don't kill the patients.

so ... they were suppose to be psychic and tell the future in order to know whether he was armed or not. Come on, that's not even trying.

Yes Kitten. That is a given. YOu are being completely unreasonable. By that standard, they should just taser you the moment they see you walking down the street. How do they know you aren't armed? How do they know you don't intend to hurt them? Maybe if you RAN AWAY from them .......oh shit, that gets you tasered.

Yep, you're right, it's tasers for everyone.

 

[Dr Grump]

It's easy to Monday morning quarter back on this....too many unanswered questions..

Could the Police tell he was unarmed?
Did he have a knife?
Or a gun (concealed)?
If not, are the police supposed to risk finding out?
Did the police know of his behavioural problems?
For all the police knew he could have been an habitual violent criminal.
My late uncle was 5'6' and weighed about 120 pounds dripping wet in his prime. He was also a national boxing champion who I have seen taken on guys twice his size and beat the shit out of them - easily.

As I said, it's easy to sit back in the cold light of day as the facts come up, but remember, we have the benefit of knowing these things - the cops who had to make these split second decisions knew none of this.

BTW, I am an ex-cop.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Learning disability does not mean stupid. I know many dyslexic people who are very intelligent and know right from wrong, and also know you don't run from the cops. Retarded people generally are taught that cops are the ones who they should turn to. There are many others I can show the same correlation. Fact is, he was either guilty of something or someone had demonized the police to him, period. Innocent people who know what cops are do NOT run from the police, period. Yes, it is the parents responsibility to teach their kids, no one elses.

And your proof that his parent's demonized the cops is????

Fact is, he was learning disabled - which does not only mean dyslexic; it can run the gamut from retarded to autistic (varying degrees) to mental competency (varying degrees) including stupid - and he was petrified. Again you give out a blanket, black-and-white statement and never once consider the fact or ability of this kid's mental capacity.

It's not a black and white statement, it's a simple fact. Someone had to have demonized the cops, there is no way a 15 year old would be clueless as to the existence or job of the police. Or, he was guilty as hell about something. Even the insane know what cops do.

Haven't hung around special needs kids much, have you? You are stating this in black-and-white terms. You're giving 'demonized cops' or 'guilty' as the only two choices. He was learning disabled - to what degree?? - and he was petrified . . . so he ran.

 

[KittenKoder]

That isn't even needed. Come on. Again, 110lbs, 5 feet 2 inches. There is no reason, absolutely none, for the cops to not handle this guy if he is unarmed. And handle him without injury. Hospital nurses have to do this all the time and they don't use tasers or mace and they don't kill the patients.

so ... they were suppose to be psychic and tell the future in order to know whether he was armed or not. Come on, that's not even trying.

Yes Kitten. That is a given. YOu are being completely unreasonable. By that standard, they should just taser you the moment they see you walking down the street. How do they know you aren't armed? How do they know you don't intend to hurt them? Maybe if you RAN AWAY from them .......oh shit, that gets you tasered.

Yep, you're right, it's tasers for everyone.

Well ... unless you are running there is no chance of threat, is there. If you gave them a reason they can just ask, if you show them then they know one way or the other, but if you run from them there is no way they will know, and there is a chance you will be a threat. Try harder.