9-11, 19 insanely motivated Saudis with pocket knives, nothing else

[Patriot911]

WHAT!!!

The building collapsed at just a fraction below the rate of no resistance, free fall.

redefining the term free fall to suit your bullshit purposes doesn't make it free fall. So what is your evidence that the building fell "faster" than it should have? Remember, opinion, ESPECIALLY yours, is not evidence.

The building had a total collapse.

And why shouldn't it? There is enough stored energy in a building that size to completely collapse the building.

The building fell symmetrically into its foundation.

No, it didn't. You were shown pictures you acknowledged of building damage FIFTEEN STORIES UP. How does a collapsing building damage another building fifteen stories up if it falls straight down into it's foundation as you lie about?

This is indisputable

You need to look up indisputable. When you lie about the facts, the issue is anything but indisputable no matter how much you whine about it.

how could you ever consider yourself to be people bearing any semblance of reason and deny these facts. Oh wait.......

Gee.... I dunno.... we're honest? We debate the facts, not make bullshit up like you do ALL THE TIME.

How about a nice compilation, just to make sure you realize the building collapsed in a manner that can only be explained by controlled demolition, enjoy.

When you say "can only be explained by a controlled demolition", are you once again announcing to the world that you're such a fucking idiot that you can't see any other ways even though they've been explained ad nauseum to your sorry ass?

9/11: High Quality Compilation Video of WTC7 Collapse
Several different TV stations' footage of WTC7

So where are the explosions? You know... one of the DEFINING CHARACTERISTICS of a controlled demolition that would HAVE TO BE THERE? How about any of the other evidence like seismic evidence? Cut beams? Wiring? Detonators? ANYTHING? What? You have no "evidence" other than your bullshit opinion? We know. We've been asking you dishonest fucks for YEARS for a single shred of real evidence. To date you've come up with a lot of excuses, but zero hard evidence that would lead someone to actually believe your fantasies.

 

[Gamolon]

Gamolon, if you don't believe WTC 7 had a total symmetrical free fall collapse, isT here really any point in debating?

You attack the credibility of the sources I provide.


Who are you, Gamolon? Just because you say the building didn't have a total symmetrical free fall collapse it must be so? Only the most irrational of mind would not agree that WTC 7 collapsed in that very manner, akin to controlled demolition.

You point to the buildings initiation of collapse, so what? Other examples of CD have a similar initiation.


THE BUILDING CAME STRAIGHT DOWN, SORRY, BUT IT DID.

WHETHER YOU SAY SO OR NOT.

You keep contradicting yourself, do you know that? I asked you if the following video was symmetrical...

I mean, if you do not think it was a total symmetrical collapse there really is no point of debating.

Most CD's don't even have as symmetrical collapse as WTC 7 did.

Tell me oh wise one. Is this linked video a video of a symmetrical or non-symmetrical demolition?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ia9xoGDzIE]YouTube - Roosevelt House Building Demolition in Atlanta, GA[/ame]

Your reply was...

Nope, it wasn't symmetrical,I suppose the timing of the initiation and the manner of the demo charges likely caused the more assymmetrical collapse.

Yet that building fell into it's own footprint. So you just argued AGAINST your own definition of a total, symmetrical collapse.

A TOTAL SYMMETRICAL COLLAPSE means that the ENTIRE FRIGGIN' building came down at the same time, not in stages. Symmetrical does not mean it fell into it's own footprint.

Is this a symmetrical collapse?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-WvQbFMIWU]YouTube - Tencza apartments controlled demolition[/ame]

No, because it came down in STAGES, not all at the same time. By the way, you never explained in the other thread why you thought the video I posted was NOT symmetrical, yet WTC7 was.

Funny that.

Here is a symmetrical demolition video...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHQOqnaIce0]YouTube - Building Implosion Controlled Demolition Compare WTC 7 9/11[/ame]

Get it yet? THE WHOLE BUILDING CAME DOWN AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[Gamolon]

WHAT!!!

The building collapsed at just a fraction below the rate of no resistance, free fall.

Tell you what Triton. I'll challenge you and your above claim right now. We'll put an end to this once and for all.

You give me the amount of time a 47 story building would take to TOTALLY collapse at free fall.

Do you have the balls?

 

[Gamolon]

Just because you say the building didn't have a total symmetrical free fall collapse it must be so?

Just so we're clear. It's not because "I say so", it's because you are wrong!!!! You've been lead to believe things blinders on.

You are claiming that WTC7 TOTALLY and SYMMETRICALLY collapsed at free fall. Did it really? Did WTC7...

...TOTALLY...

...collapse at free fall? Totally means from START to FINISH correct? According to your truther brethren, WTC7 totally collapsed in 6.5 seconds making it free fall. This is a lie. Is that why videos they post neglect to show the penthouse collapse? Or is that not part of the "total collapse"? Here. I'll make it easy for you. Here is a video of the WTC7...

...TOTAL...

...collapse.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkOGkdNq13k&feature=related]YouTube - WTC7 NIST Clip with east penthouse[/ame]

Go ahead. Count the seconds. The east penthouse starts to collapse at :02 and disappears behind the buildings at :13. That's 11 seconds. Almost DOUBLE the 6.5 free fall claims. And that video doesn't even show the ENTIRE collapse.

I'll await your rebuttal.

 

[Gamolon]

And these guys are insane, and they have no credibility, too, right?

9/11 NYC Firefighters Controlled Demolition

They are very credible. Unfortunately for dishonest fucks like you, they're not saying what you want them to say. They're not saying it WAS a controlled demolition. They said it was LIKE a controlled demolition. You might want to go back to grade school and learn some English concepts like comparison.

I love how these jokers interpret what people mean when using the word "like" to describe something.

Like I said, I guess we should start looking for railroad tracks when people say the tornado that ripped through their town sounded like "a freight train"...

 

[Gamolon]

You attack the credibility of the sources I provide.

You're damn right I'm going to attack credibility. You posted his crap like he was an expert in controlled demolitions and we should lend credibility to his "explanation" of what he thought occurred.

The fact is he said they could have had access to the core columns from the elevators. Sorry, but the elevators did not REACH all the core columns. Second, he doesn't touch upon access to eight stories worth of perimeter columns that you idiots claim were "removed" to create the 2.25 seconds of free fall.

He placed charges from the direction of the demolition experts that ran calculations.

Like I said before. If I took a person who made plans/blueprints with Autocad and asked him about the structural design and the calculation of loads/stress, would you trust him to know what he is talking about?

No you wouldn't.

 

[Gamolon]

Just because you say the building didn't have a total symmetrical free fall collapse it must be so? Only the most irrational of mind would not agree that WTC 7 collapsed in that very manner, akin to controlled demolition.

More contradiction on your part.

You are making a comparison to all controlled demolitions in that they are all totally symmetrical, hence your "akin to controlled demolition" quote above.

Yet you admitted that the video I posted previously of a controlled demolition was NOT SYMMETRICAL.

So which is it?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Just because you say the building didn't have a total symmetrical free fall collapse it must be so? Only the most irrational of mind would not agree that WTC 7 collapsed in that very manner, akin to controlled demolition.

More contradiction on your part.

You are making a comparison to all controlled demolitions in that they are all totally symmetrical, hence your "akin to controlled demolition" quote above.

Yet you admitted that the video I posted previously of a controlled demolition was NOT SYMMETRICAL.

So which is it?

They do not have to bring it straight down. They could bring it down away from other infrastructures.

 

[Patriot911]

Just because you say the building didn't have a total symmetrical free fall collapse it must be so? Only the most irrational of mind would not agree that WTC 7 collapsed in that very manner, akin to controlled demolition.

More contradiction on your part.

You are making a comparison to all controlled demolitions in that they are all totally symmetrical, hence your "akin to controlled demolition" quote above.

Yet you admitted that the video I posted previously of a controlled demolition was NOT SYMMETRICAL.

So which is it?

They do not have to bring it straight down. They could bring it down away from other infrastructures.

You're right. In a controlled demolition they can bring the building down however they want. In a natural collapse for a building that size, your only option is straight down. Even if the building were to start to lean to one side, the supports on that side would fail and the building would STILL come straight down.

 

[Gamolon]

Just because you say the building didn't have a total symmetrical free fall collapse it must be so? Only the most irrational of mind would not agree that WTC 7 collapsed in that very manner, akin to controlled demolition.

More contradiction on your part.

You are making a comparison to all controlled demolitions in that they are all totally symmetrical, hence your "akin to controlled demolition" quote above.

Yet you admitted that the video I posted previously of a controlled demolition was NOT SYMMETRICAL.

So which is it?

They do not have to bring it straight down. They could bring it down away from other infrastructures.

Tell you what. Please explain to me why Triton says the demolition in this video was not symmetrical:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ia9xoGDzIE]YouTube - Roosevelt House Building Demolition in Atlanta, GA[/ame]

Yet Triton thinks WTC7 was symmetrical:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bjrAJVp4ds]YouTube - 9/11 - WTC 7 Collapse (penthouse)[/ame]

Can you explain the contradiction?

 

[P F Tinmore]

For comparison purposes, why don't we post some videos of other steel frame buildings that have collapsed due to fire.

 

[Gamolon]

For comparison purposes, why don't we post some videos of other steel frame buildings that have collapsed due to fire.

Look up the Kader Toy factory.

 

[P F Tinmore]

For comparison purposes, why don't we post some videos of other steel frame buildings that have collapsed due to fire.

Look up the Kader Toy factory.

The Kader Toy factory was a cheap uninsulated beam building not even close to the towers construction.

What else do you have?

 

[Gamolon]

For comparison purposes, why don't we post some videos of other steel frame buildings that have collapsed due to fire.

Look up the Kader Toy factory.

The Kader Toy factory was a cheap uninsulated beam building not even close to the towers construction.

What else do you have?

Interesting. First you request videos of other "steel framed buildings" that have collapsed from just fire.

When I provide one, you move the goalposts. So now you want a steel frame building that caught fire AND NOW ALSO have to match the towers construction. I'll make this easy for you.

You provide me a steel framed building that matched the towers construction, caught fire, and remained standing. That's it. Can you do that for me? When you do, please specify which building it matches in structural design. Either WTC7 or the Twin Towers.

I'll wait here yet again.

 

[Gamolon]

For comparison purposes, why don't we post some videos of other steel frame buildings that have collapsed due to fire.

Look up the Kader Toy factory.

The Kader Toy factory was a cheap uninsulated beam building not even close to the towers construction.

What else do you have?

Just so we are on the same page and you are asking ME for a video of other steel framed buildings similarly constructed to the towers, what is the criteria you have in order for me too match what buildings I present to you?

1. Height minimum?
2. Footprint size?
3. Design type?

 

[Gamolon]

For comparison purposes, why don't we post some videos of other steel frame buildings that have collapsed due to fire.

Look up the Kader Toy factory.

The Kader Toy factory was a cheap uninsulated beam building not even close to the towers construction.

What else do you have?

You use the descriptive text "uninsulated beam" as one of the reasons that building collapsed. That must mean you understand that unprotected steel can be affected by fire. Affected to a point that it can fail. Especially under stress.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Look up the Kader Toy factory.

The Kader Toy factory was a cheap uninsulated beam building not even close to the towers construction.

What else do you have?

You use the descriptive text "uninsulated beam" as one of the reasons that building collapsed. That must mean you understand that unprotected steel can be affected by fire. Affected to a point that it can fail. Especially under stress.

Those buildings were built under different code. That does make a difference. It is apples and oranges.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The Kader Toy factory was a cheap uninsulated beam building not even close to the towers construction.

What else do you have?

You use the descriptive text "uninsulated beam" as one of the reasons that building collapsed. That must mean you understand that unprotected steel can be affected by fire. Affected to a point that it can fail. Especially under stress.

Those buildings were built under different code. That does make a difference. It is apples and oranges.

Just find us an audio track of the explosions that would have accompanied a controlled demolition..... So far no one has been able to produce what would have been necessary to be there. Had there actually been a controlled demolition.

 

[Patriot911]

The Kader Toy factory was a cheap uninsulated beam building not even close to the towers construction.

What else do you have?

You use the descriptive text "uninsulated beam" as one of the reasons that building collapsed. That must mean you understand that unprotected steel can be affected by fire. Affected to a point that it can fail. Especially under stress.

Those buildings were built under different code. That does make a difference. It is apples and oranges.

You are absolutely right, Tinmore. But the towers had fire retardant that was known to be able to be knocked off by hand, and both towers had a very fast, very large object slam into them hard enough for the impact to register clearly on seismographs miles away. Don't you think this might account for part of the collapse?

As for WTC 7, it burned for over 7 hours. Fire retardant is usually rated between one and four hours of effectiveness and is usually assumed to be working in conjunction with other fire fighting methods like active fire suppression (damaged in the collapse due to water main breaks) or fire fighters fighting the fires.

The codes are not guarantees against collapse. They are designed to insure that everyone has a chance to get out of the building. The firefighters knew long before the collapses that there was a very real danger of collapse. They took what precautions they could to save lives including setting up a perimeter around WTC 7 because of the possibility of collapse.

 

[Gamolon]

The Kader Toy factory was a cheap uninsulated beam building not even close to the towers construction.

What else do you have?

You use the descriptive text "uninsulated beam" as one of the reasons that building collapsed. That must mean you understand that unprotected steel can be affected by fire. Affected to a point that it can fail. Especially under stress.

Those buildings were built under different code. That does make a difference. It is apples and oranges.

Code has nothing to do with the way fire affects steel.