A clear reason why we need closed Primaries

[martybegan]

doing pretty good with you considering you went with personal attacks,,

I am sure since you think rights are not absolute that people can be executed without trial or any due process like obama,,,

It's all you are worth, you pathetic sniveling little shit.

Who was "executed" without due process?

 

[progressive hunter]

It's all you are worth, you pathetic sniveling little shit.

Who was "executed" without due process?

god you are an idiot,,

Four U.S. citizens killed in Obama drone strikes, but 3 were not intended targets

As LaRouche Democrat and U.S. Senate candidate Kesha Rogers of Texas calls for the impeachment of Democratic President B

www.politifact.com

 

[martybegan]

god you are an idiot,,

Four U.S. citizens killed in Obama drone strikes, but 3 were not intended targets

As LaRouche Democrat and U.S. Senate candidate Kesha Rogers of Texas calls for the impeachment of Democratic President B

www.politifact.com

I usually don't support Obama's shit but these guy's warred against us, we warred back.

During the civil war was a judge supposed to OK every time a Union solider shot and killed a Confederate?

 

[Oddball]

In an ideal situation maybe, but some people are bastards and would take advantage of the situation, ending up adding to others burdens and costing others money.

Not an argument....We have degenerate bastards taking advantage of the current situation.

 

[progressive hunter]

I usually don't support Obama's shit but these guy's warred against us, we warred back.

During the civil war was a judge supposed to OK every time a Union solider shot and killed a Confederate?

no they were murdered sitting in a cafe drinking coffee,,

so far we have that you dont support the 1st 2nd 4th and 5th amendments and think that rights are not absolute and americans can be executed without trial or due process and I'm the fascist because I dont want a D or R on election ballots or the halls of congress and whitehouse,,

do you even know what a fascist is?? if not go look in a mirror,,

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

No, you do not have that right. Show me where in any Constitution that you have a right to vote in Primary Elections.

The key point is that our system was designed to avoid the dangers of populist demagogues and “party politics” in general. Of course it has evolved into a corrupt two-party system. It needs to be radically reformed.

 

[pknopp]

Tough toenails.....Figure out who you want to support in the primaries and change your affiliation accordingly beforehand.

Tough? I have it my way now so I have no complaints.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The OP is correct that abuse of “non-party” primaries and “crossover voters” in “open primaries” occasionally allows for quite a bit of skullduggery.

But there are other bigger problems that I outlined in post #38. One example occurring in most state primaries is as follows …

A “plurality win" occurs when a candidate wins a race with less than 50% of votes. Our election system [with a few exceptions] elects the candidate with the most votes, even if the majority of voters voted for another candidate. A common occurrence in primary elections, plurality wins can send unpopular party nominees to general elections and allow the few to make decisions for the majority.

120 plurality winners advanced from US House, US Senate, and statewide primary elections in 2022. Many [sought] “safe" seats in November where a primary win is tantamount to election. 43 million people live in jurisdictions where a plurality winner advanced to a safe seat, and will therefore be represented by someone who was effectively elected by a small portion of primary voters. Other plurality winners are advancing to competitive toss-up races without a majority mandate from their own party's voters.

Two states use ranked choice voting (RV) for congressional primaries, ensuring that nominees have broad support from primary voters. RV, a voting system that allows voters to rank candidates in order of preference to produce a majority winner, is a strong solution that other states should consider …

https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Ffairvote.box.com%2Fs%2Fxmnjolsmcqd3rkgwyustbihatjn2lbe

Of course in General Elections Ranked Choice Voting avoids expensive separate “runoff elections” in states like Georgia that do require a majority vote to elect its Senators.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Correct link for above quote:

Fewest votes wins: Plurality Victories in 2022 primaries - FairVote

This report describes how candidates can advance to general elections with a minority support from their primary electorates (known as a “plurality win”) and investigates how often this happened in 2022 primaries for US House, US Senate, and statewide primaries. This report also offers ranked...

fairvote.org

 

[Flopper]

One positive thing I see from the midterms is clear cut examples of why parties need closed primaries.

All the Extreme Republicans Boosted by Democrats in the Primaries Lost Their Midterm Races

And not "closed but you can switch your party registration the week before closed" but "closed by like 6 months closed".

Parties should be able to choose freely who they want running, not have a gamed candidate foisted on them by outsiders.

I think anyone one who prefers one party over the other should be able to vote in that primary.

I was a card carrying member of the republican party in the 1960s till the early 80s when I switch to democrat. When I moved to Washington I became an independent as far the parties were concerned. The people from both parties called from morning to night soliciting, asking for volunteers, and of course filling my inbox with campaign garbage. I moved and changed my email address but still they track me me down.

I would support a law that had a time limit on campaigning. There is no reason why we have to suffer through months of this nonsense. 4 to 6 weeks for campaigning is plenty. House members now spend about half their term in office campaign or fund raising.

 

[martybegan]

no they were murdered sitting in a cafe drinking coffee,,

so far we have that you dont support the 1st 2nd 4th and 5th amendments and think that rights are not absolute and americans can be executed without trial or due process and I'm the fascist because I dont want a D or R on election ballots or the halls of congress and whitehouse,,

do you even know what a fascist is?? if not go look in a mirror,,

They were in a foreign country waging war against the US.

You are a fucking nutter.

 

[martybegan]

The key point is that our system was designed to avoid the dangers of populist demagogues and “party politics” in general. Of course it has evolved into a corrupt two-party system. It needs to be radically reformed.

Why are people so dismissing of populism?

And to transform it would probably take amendments.

 

[martybegan]

I think anyone one who prefers one party over the other should be able to vote in that primary.

I was a card carrying member of the republican party in the 1960s till the early 80s when I switch to democrat. When I moved to Washington I became an independent as far the parties were concerned. The people from both parties called from morning to night soliciting, asking for volunteers, and of course filling my inbox with campaign garbage. I moved and changed my email address but still they track me me down.

I would support a law that had a time limit on campaigning. There is no reason why we have to suffer through months of this nonsense. 4 to 6 weeks for campaigning is plenty. House members now spend about half their term in office campaign or fund raising.

The thing is shenanigans like what I linked goes to work against the whole concept of a party, where THEY decide who they want to put up for election.

 

[progressive hunter]

They were in a foreign country waging war against the US.

You are a fucking nutter.

still american with rights,,

I guess the constitution is just a suggestion for some of you guys,,

 

[martybegan]

still american with rights,,

I guess the constitution is just a suggestion for some of you guys,,

So again, the Confederate soldiers in the Civil war needed a judge present every time a Union Solider took a shot at them?

 

[progressive hunter]

So again, the Confederate soldiers in the Civil war needed a judge present every time a Union Solider took a shot at them?

every one that didnt die in combat was given due process,, this guy was droned sitting in a cafe drinking coffee with his child and others not involved

 

[progressive hunter]

So again, the Confederate soldiers in the Civil war needed a judge present every time a Union Solider took a shot at them?

so you want another ass whooping today like yesterday,,,

when was it proven he was actively waging war against the USA??? what due process was used

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Why are people so dismissing of populism?
And to transform it would probably take amendments.

Well there are many forms of “populism.” Trumpism is rightwing populism in a particularly narcissistic, blowhard form. All I’m saying here is that the U.S. Constitution was written by wealthy Enlightenment-influenced men (including prominent slaveholders) who feared both the dangers of pure democracy (hence our complicated federal “Republican” system of divided powers) and one man rule (Monarchy).

Several leading Founders (rather naively) hoped — and tried to design the new Republic — to avoid extreme partisan “party” factionalism altogether. There is no place in the Constitution that mentions party politics or a “Two-Party system,” let alone primaries.

The electoral reforms I have mentioned avoid the need for national amendments (though individual state constitutions will need amendments on voting procedures). I agree that some proposed “reforms” would require national amendments, but I think most of these are today impossible, given the extremism and divided character of our politics.

In my opinion, a “constitutional convention” that some advocate would especially open up a dangerous Pandora’s Box if held in the near future. I would stick for now to do-able electoral reforms rather than endanger our Constitution and national Republic.

 

[martybegan]

every one that didnt die in combat was given due process,, this guy was droned sitting in a cafe drinking coffee with his child and others not involved

No, they were put in POW camps without a trial.

And the only reason they didn't plaster southern cities with bombs is they had no bombers.

Did the Civilians in Vicksburg killed by artillery strikes get due process?

 

[martybegan]

Well there are many forms of “populism.” Trumpism is rightwing populism in a particularly narcissistic, blowhard form. All I’m saying here is that the U.S. Constitution was written by wealthy Enlightenment-influenced men (even prominent slaveholders) who feared both the dangers of pure democracy (hence our Republican system of divided powers) and one man rule (Monarchy). Several leading Founders (rather naively) hoped (and designed their new Republic) to avoid extreme partisan “party” factionalism altogether.

The electoral reforms I have mentioned avoid the need for national amendments (though individual state constitutions will need amendments on voting procedures). I agree that some proposed “reforms” would require national amendments, but I think most of these are today impossible, given the extremism and divided character of our politics. In my opinion, a “constitutional convention” that some advocate would especially open up a dangerous Pandora’s Box if held in the near future. I would stick for now to do-able electoral reforms rather than endanger our Constitution and national Republic.

There wasn't access to the information the average voter has today back then, so really only the well off had time and access to know about national issues and such.

That is why they devolved as much power as possible to the State, and the States subsequently to their local government divisions to let the people being affected be the ones to vote on things.

We have reversed this process, where everyone wants their views passed at the highest level to apply to the most people possible.