A One State Solution

[Hollie]

Israel pays nothing to support the Palestinians, the EU, the UN and the US do. In fact, it often keeps the taxes Palestinians pay for themselves.

The Israelis make millions on the backs of the Palestinians.

The E.U. however, is threatening to make Israel pay for the occupation as occupiers have always done in the past.

"EU official threatens funding to PA, saying Israel should pay for its occupation -

“the EU cannot fund the Israeli occupation anymore. Israel needs to be responsible for its occupation. This means no more EU money to the PA.”



- See more at: EU official threatens funding to PA, saying Israel should pay for its occupation




See more at: EU official threatens funding to PA, saying Israel should pay for its occupation

You must have missed it. The article is two years old.

How desperate!

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

I'm not sure how this tracks?

The European Union has been rattling Israel with threats against the occupation for months. Now it is going even further, with an unnamed official threatening to cut off funds to the Palestinian Authority in comments to the Associated Press:

“the EU cannot fund the Israeli occupation anymore. Israel needs to be responsible for its occupation. This means no more EU money to the PA.”

It is common on the left to hear the PA described as stooges for the occupation. Now the EU is evidently beginning to reflect this analysis. This is a significant development.
​

Israel pays nothing to support the Palestinians, the EU, the UN and the US do. In fact, it often keeps the taxes Palestinians pay for themselves.
The Israelis make millions on the backs of the Palestinians.
The E.U. however, is threatening to make Israel pay for the occupation as occupiers have always done in the past.
"EU official threatens funding to PA, saying Israel should pay for its occupation -
“the EU cannot fund the Israeli occupation anymore. Israel needs to be responsible for its occupation. This means no more EU money to the PA.”

(COMMENT)

Israel did not ask the EU to fund anything. The Donor has been around for nearly two decades. The EU pull-out (if true) would not adversely impact Israel at all. In fact it will dovetail nicely with some other funding pressures being withheld by Israel. Israel, as well as several other donors, have made a correlation between the Aid given Palestine and Criminal/Terrorist activity.

In the Middle East Quarterly, there was a great article you should read. It is a bit dated, but none the less, a good reading. This data is quoted from that source:

Does Foreign Aid Fuel Palestinian Violence?
by Steven Stotsky
Middle East Quarterly
Summer 2008, pp. 23-30

Correlating Aid and Violence
Figures 1 and 2 (see below) illustrate how the number of homicides[9] and level of donor aid[10]correlate.

Figure 1

Figure 2

The correlation between aid and terrorism murders becomes even stronger when the amount of aid given in one year is compared to the number of terrorist murders the following year (Figure 2). The lag between increased aid and increased homicides suggests a cause and effect association. However, when comparing the number of attempted terrorist attacks against Israelis with the level of aid, the correlation is stronger, without introducing any time lag (Figure 3).[11]

Figure 3

To investigate the possible linkage between aid and violence, it is useful to examine changes in how foreign aid was distributed during the second intifada.
​

A comparison of the proportion of aid allocated to the government budget with the number of homicides yields a correlation similar to the previously discussed correlation of aid and homicides. (See Figures 4 and 5.)

Figure 4

Figure 5

​

There are many that have come to the conclusion that funding the Palestinians is merely rewarding them for continuous act of terrorism. And there are several articles of the past few years, that have focus on this aspect of inadvertent material support to terrorism.

No country should support the Palestinian Terrorist to avoid funding to terrorism. Now, this does not apply to member of the Arab League that believe the Palestinians are right to call for Jihad and uprisings. That is consistent with Arab philosophy and by basic concept behind the duty embraced by Muslims.

Most Respectfully,
R​

 

[Coyote]

Guys - a couple of you are forgetting that the topic is the viability of a one-state solution, if your post is deleted, consider it a warning. Further derailments will be infracted.

 

[montelatici]

If the E.U. does not fund the millions of people under Israeli occupation, then the Israelis, as the occupiers, are required to do so under international law of belligerent occupation. An occupied population has the right to resist occupation by any means including armed resistance under international law. Attacking the occupier is the normal state, accepting occupation passively is an anomaly, historically. It has nothing to do with Jihad.

In line with a one-state solution, the non-Jews would have to be supported economically as are the Orthodox Jews, for example. All citizens would have to be treated equally under the law and Israel will have to become a secular state.

 

[MJB12741]

Guys - a couple of you are forgetting that the topic is the viability of a one-state solution, if your post is deleted, consider it a warning. Further derailments will be infracted.

Logic would dictate a one state solution. However history has proven there cannot be a one state solution with Israel'is & Palestinains occupying the same land together. Worse yet are any prospects for a two state solution with Israeli's & Palestinians residing on opposite borders of each other. This can only result in two states at endless war. So let us hope at some point both sides will count their dead, agree enough is enough & find a better way to achieve a one state solution than an all out war with winner take all.

Truly I hope the Palestinian leaderships will come to their senses & not leave Israel any other option than that. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

 

[montelatici]

Until there are two states there cannot be an endless war between states. For now, there is a population that is not enfranchised within a single state. Exactly the situation that Apartheid South Africa was in until the ruling ethnic group saw the light.

 

[Kondor3]

...Israel is the reason that Palestinians need aid.

They can have all the humanitarian aid they like.

They're not allowed to have military aid, however.

The entire point of the exercise is to wear them down and make them leave.

And, of course, nudge them along, by continuing to seize tracts of land, dividing them into disconnected pockets, and squeezing them out, decade by decade.

The task is almost complete now; one need look no further than the recently-implemented "buffer zone" surrounding what very little is left of Gaza, to know the truth of that.

This is being done because...

1. the Palestinians have proven time and again that they will not be satisfied with a One State Solution in which Israel controls the state

2. the Palestinians have proven time and again that they will not be satisified with a Two State Solution in which Israel controls one of the states as a neighbor

That means that one of them or the other has to go.

And, given that Israel holds all the power, it won't be the Jews.

And, if one of them has to go, then there are two ways to make that happen...

1. the Losing Side dies

2. the Losing Side leaves

Option (1) is inhumane and far too messy to clean up and makes for bad P(ublic) R(elations) and upsets people at their breakfasts, reading the news

Option (2) lets the Losing Side live, and build new lives and a future elsewhere.

Option (2) is the only answer left on the table.

The United Nations and the Israelis themselves and the rest of the world might as well save us all the trouble, avoid the Ramadan-Christmas Rush, and move them.

Providing complete support to the Palestinians, to resettle them elsewhere, and get them off to a good start, someplace else.

The world (even many Arab countries) are tired of listening to the Mad Dog Palestinians and their whiny bullshit.

The Arabs have broken their teeth (and backs) on Israel several times within Living Memory, and aren't likely to try it again anytime soon.

Besides, they're tired of propping-up jackrabbits and Neanderthals who shoot themselves in the foot at every possible opportunity.

That, and the fact that most of the Arab nations within striking distance of Israel have their hands full with dangerous internal unrest or even civil war, and are in no position to try to pounce on Israel, regardless of whether or not the US or Europe would replenish Israel's munitions inventories.

There is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill in the nick of time, to rescue the Palestinians.

Nature is already in the process of DE-selecting them.

Let's just get this over with, scoop them up, and get 'em the hell outta there, and scatter 'em to the Four Winds; breaking them up so that they won't cause any further trouble.

Enough of this shit, already.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Two State VS One State Solution? Eve Spangler

 

[montelatici]

...Israel is the reason that Palestinians need aid.

They can have all the humanitarian aid they like.

They're not allowed to have military aid, however.

The entire point of the exercise is to wear them down and make them leave.

And, of course, nudge them along, by continuing to seize tracts of land, dividing them into disconnected pockets, and squeezing them out, decade by decade.

The task is almost complete now; one need look no further than the recently-implemented "buffer zone" surrounding what very little is left of Gaza, to know the truth of that.

This is being done because...

1. the Palestinians have proven time and again that they will not be satisfied with a One State Solution in which Israel controls the state

2. the Palestinians have proven time and again that they will not be satisified with a Two State Solution in which Israel controls one of the states as a neighbor

That means that one of them or the other has to go.

And, given that Israel holds all the power, it won't be the Jews.

And, if one of them has to go, then there are two ways to make that happen...

1. the Losing Side dies

2. the Losing Side leaves

Option (1) is inhumane and far too messy to clean up and makes for bad P(ublic) R(elations) and upsets people at their breakfasts, reading the news

Option (2) lets the Losing Side live, and build new lives and a future elsewhere.

Option (2) is the only answer left on the table.

The United Nations and the Israelis themselves and the rest of the world might as well save us all the trouble, avoid the Ramadan-Christmas Rush, and move them.

Providing complete support to the Palestinians, to resettle them elsewhere, and get them off to a good start, someplace else.

The world (even many Arab countries) are tired of listening to the Mad Dog Palestinians and their whiny bullshit.

The Arabs have broken their teeth (and backs) on Israel several times within Living Memory, and aren't likely to try it again anytime soon.

Besides, they're tired of propping-up jackrabbits and Neanderthals who shoot themselves in the foot at every possible opportunity.

That, and the fact that most of the Arab nations within striking distance of Israel have their hands full with dangerous internal unrest or even civil war, and are in no position to try to pounce on Israel, regardless of whether or not the US or Europe would replenish Israel's munitions inventories.

There is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill in the nick of time, to rescue the Palestinians.

Nature is already in the process of DE-selecting them.

Let's just get this over with, scoop them up, and get 'em the hell outta there, and scatter 'em to the Four Winds; breaking them up so that they won't cause any further trouble.

Enough of this shit, already.

Since you are dreaming, the Palestinians aren't going anywhere, Israel needs to dismantle Apartheid and enfranchise all inhabitants of the territory it controls.

 

[MJB12741]

Until there are two states there cannot be an endless war between states. For now, there is a population that is not enfranchised within a single state. Exactly the situation that Apartheid South Africa was in until the ruling ethnic group saw the light.

Eh, Monte. Yes, just like I already said, a two state solution will only lead to an endless war between the two states. Good luck with your reading disorder.

 

[montelatici]

Well, we agree that a one state solution is the only solution that will end Israeli Apartheid.

 

[MJB12741]

Well, we agree that a one state solution is the only solution that will end Israeli Apartheid.

Now hold your horses padner. I didn't say that.

 

[montelatici]

Well, we agree that a one state solution is the only solution that will end Israeli Apartheid.

Now hold your horses padner. I didn't say that.

By implication you did, or do you believe an Apartheid state can be maintained for the long term. The non-Jews aren't going anywhere.

 

[SAYIT]

If the E.U. does not fund the millions of people under Israeli occupation, then the Israelis, as the occupiers, are required to do so under international law of belligerent occupation...

Military occupation occurs when a belligerent state invades the territory of another state.

This is - nor has it ever been - a clear cut occupation of a state occupying another's turf.

Neither a Palestinian State nor a border with Israel have been established (as they have between Israel and Jordan, Egypt, and for the most part, Lebanon) because the Arabs have a far more insidious agenda.

What we do have is disputed territory that has never been incorporated into any country (other than Jordan's unrecognized annexation of the WB) and when Egypt and Jordan abandoned their administration (annexation) of the WB and Gaza in 1967, Israel merely filled the void.

Until there are two states there cannot be an endless war between states. For now, there is a population that is not enfranchised within a single state. Exactly the situation that Apartheid South Africa was in until the ruling ethnic group saw the light.

You could easily be describing Jordan where interlopers from Arabia - the Hashemite tribe - rule over a virtually powerless Palestinian majority.

It must once again be noted that the Arabs violently rejected the peaceful establishment of a Palestinian state in 1948 in favor of war with Israel, squalid "refugee" camps and their now 67 year siege of the Jewish Homeland, and despite complete Arab control of all the land from 1948-1967 (including all of Jerusalem) they now claim would satisfy their bloodlust, they failed to create a working state.

Any rational observer would conclude that they have had far more interest in destroying Israel than in creating their own state.

 

[SAYIT]

...Israel is the reason that Palestinians need aid.

They can have all the humanitarian aid they like.

They're not allowed to have military aid, however...

The United Nations and the Israelis themselves and the rest of the world might as well save us all the trouble, avoid the Ramadan-Christmas Rush, and move them.

The world (even many Arab countries) are tired of listening to the Mad Dog Palestinians and their whiny bullshit...

Besides, they're tired of propping-up jackrabbits and Neanderthals who shoot themselves in the foot at every possible opportunity.

That, and the fact that most of the Arab nations within striking distance of Israel have their hands full with dangerous internal unrest or even civil war, and are in no position to try to pounce on Israel, regardless of whether or not the US or Europe would replenish Israel's munitions inventories.

There is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill in the nick of time, to rescue the Palestinians...

Enough of this shit, already.

You hit what are the two currently most salient points of the conflict:

1) The wider Mideast Arab World - the very people who created the conflict - have wearied of the (Palestinian) monster they bred.

2) Facing domestic unrest and with Islamic State on the horizon, there is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill in the nick of time to rescue the Palestinians...

The game is over but the anti-Israel/anti-Jew cabal would rather have those hapless Arab "refugees" toss a few more generations of their offspring into the hopeless cause as long as they take a few Jooos with 'em.

I suspect the Monte's and the Tinny's would think differently if it were their own offspring being sacrificed.

 

[montelatici]

What does the enfranchisement of the inhabitants under the control of Israel have to do with anything you wrote?

 

[SAYIT]

What does the enfranchisement of the inhabitants under the control of Israel have to do with anything you wrote?

You conveniently forgot to quote the conversation in a cowardly attempt to avoid getting your ass spanked again but if your comment is directed at something I've posted, the answer is the Palestinians are under control of their duly elected gov'ts (Hamas, Pa) and the myriad of gangs which pass for governance.

It has been the responsibility (and abject failure) of those gov'ts to enfranchise their inhabitants, particularly in any of the 19 years in which they controlled of all the land (1948-1967, including all of Jerusalem) they now claim would satisfy their bloodlust.

Any rational observer would conclude that they have had far more interest in destroying Israel than in creating their own state.

 

[MJB12741]

What does the enfranchisement of the inhabitants under the control of Israel have to do with anything you wrote?

You conveniently forgot to quote the conversation in a cowardly attempt to avoid getting your ass spanked again but if your comment is directed at something I've posted, the answer is the Palestinians are under control of their duly elected gov'ts (Hamas, Pa) and the myriad of gangs which pass for governance.

It has been the responsibility (and abject failure) of those gov'ts to enfranchise their inhabitants, particularly in any of the 19 years in which they controlled of all the land (1948-1967, including all of Jerusalem) they now claim would satisfy their bloodlust.

Any rational observer would conclude that they have had far more interest in destroying Israel than in creating their own state.

Even a casual observer would agree both Hamas & the PA have been disasters for the Palestinian people. But then, who was it that elected them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

 

[Kondor3]

...Since you are dreaming, the Palestinians aren't going anywhere, Israel needs to dismantle Apartheid and enfranchise all inhabitants of the territory it controls.

Dreaming? Hardly. Your Palis are already standing three-deep on top of each others' shoulders.

Give it another five years and it'll be 10-deep. Look at the new Gaza Buffer Zone.

But you go right ahead and keep "believing" - the longer you "believe", the easier this is gonna become...

Mother Nature makes short work of fools who can't face up to Reality...

Like your PaliBuddies...

There will be no "enfranchisement" of the Neanderthals in Gaza and the West Bank, as part of a holistic One State Solution.

There will, however, be Expulsion.

 

[montelatici]

What does the enfranchisement of the inhabitants under the control of Israel have to do with anything you wrote?

You conveniently forgot to quote the conversation in a cowardly attempt to avoid getting your ass spanked again but if your comment is directed at something I've posted, the answer is the Palestinians are under control of their duly elected gov'ts (Hamas, Pa) and the myriad of gangs which pass for governance.

It has been the responsibility (and abject failure) of those gov'ts to enfranchise their inhabitants, particularly in any of the 19 years in which they controlled of all the land (1948-1967, including all of Jerusalem) they now claim would satisfy their bloodlust.

Any rational observer would conclude that they have had far more interest in destroying Israel than in creating their own state.

There was once a chance that a sovereign Palestinian state could have been established. That is no longer the case due to facts on the ground and the intention of the Israeli in power not to permit the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state. So the choice for Israel is enfranchisement or Apartheid. You have not "spanked" anyone but yourself using your own childish language.