A Perspective on Shootings That Liberals Won't Discuss

[NYcarbineer]

Again: Speed limit laws are not meant to prevent ALL speeding. And traffic lights don't prevent ALL accidents that typically happen at the intersections either.

Would you like to see speed limits and traffic lights taken off our roads and highways?

You are welcome.

Your analogy is flawed. Speed limit laws are analogous to murder laws. You have to break them before you chastised.

Gun control laws, you are presumed guilty.

I mean, look at how you talk about gun owners.

You convict them of speeding just for owning a car.

Really? What presumption of guilt is made in a background check?

What presumption of guilt is made when a gun must be registered?

For one, felons so not have to register guns....a Supreme Court case said that that would violate their right against self incrimination...

We are against registration because it is the first step to banning or forced turn ins and that has been proven historically.......and criminals won't register their guns...defeating the purpose, and mass shooters will gladly register their guns, then go out and kill lots of people, again defeating your purpose...it is again just a needless layer of paperwork and money against law abiding gun owners......

What is the reason to register gun owners? Again...it is not needed to arrest someone who commits a crime with a gun...right? And it is not needed to arrest a felon who is caught in possession of a gun, right? We can arrest them right now without registration.

If you sell a gun to a felon.....when you catch the felon with a gun...you can arrest that felon..right now, without registration.

Registration is simply the first step to finding out which law abiding citizen has a gun, so they can later be gathered up when the left has the political power to do it.....that is what happened in Germany, Britain and Australia......we are going to keep it from happening here....

The question is, how do you stop guns getting into the hands of criminals? The only way really seems to be to have guns as a rare item. In the US they're just not. People get them easily, so do criminals. To use one isn't such a big deal. You lose one gun, just go get another one.

Until the US can stop this happening then gun violence will still be high. But then some people seem to think this is just great.

Arrest criminals caught with guns and put them in jail a long time.....that fixes the problem, they won't want to be caught in possession of a gun, or commit a crime with a gun...that way you focus on the problem...criminals, not law abiding gun owners who don't use guns to break the law.....

As I pointed out, European criminals get guns as easily as our criminals do...even easier since they get fully automatic rifles whenever they want....so their gun laws are no more effective than our gun laws are at Preventing gun violence........

So it's kind of like there's no point in building a border fence because the illegals will find a way in anyway...

...that sort of reasoning?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Should be more worried about someone carrying any combat knife than pistol. Can kill with a knife very discreetly. Guns are loud and overt.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Unless part of 'gun control' is 'gun confiscation' can restrict new purchases all you want and not change a thing.

Problem isn't the means with which people commit violent crimes, but the impulse to be violent in the first place. Take away American guns and they'll just use knives and clubs. It's the culture of 'violence is good, sex is bad' that has to change and what differs from the US to European coutnries. They'd rather have sex with people then start off thinking someone's a physical threat.

You say that people will just use knifes and clubs. Maybe, but knifes and clubs are less likely to kill.

How do you take away violence? Sometimes by giving people self worth, this is often gained by having a decent education and decent prospects in life. Doesn't always work, some people are just violent.

The US needs to change in a whole host of ways. Education for all, rather than what appears to be poor education for the poor, and a cycle of poverty that some just use as justification for right wing policies, when the reality is you don't want to keep people in poverty, you want to make it easier for them to get out.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Again: Speed limit laws are not meant to prevent ALL speeding. And traffic lights don't prevent ALL accidents that typically happen at the intersections either.

Would you like to see speed limits and traffic lights taken off our roads and highways?

You are welcome.

Your analogy is flawed. Speed limit laws are analogous to murder laws. You have to break them before you chastised.

Gun control laws, you are presumed guilty.

I mean, look at how you talk about gun owners.

You convict them of speeding just for owning a car.

Really? What presumption of guilt is made in a background check?

What presumption of guilt is made when a gun must be registered?

For one, felons so not have to register guns....a Supreme Court case said that that would violate their right against self incrimination...

We are against registration because it is the first step to banning or forced turn ins and that has been proven historically.......and criminals won't register their guns...defeating the purpose, and mass shooters will gladly register their guns, then go out and kill lots of people, again defeating your purpose...it is again just a needless layer of paperwork and money against law abiding gun owners......

What is the reason to register gun owners? Again...it is not needed to arrest someone who commits a crime with a gun...right? And it is not needed to arrest a felon who is caught in possession of a gun, right? We can arrest them right now without registration.

If you sell a gun to a felon.....when you catch the felon with a gun...you can arrest that felon..right now, without registration.

Registration is simply the first step to finding out which law abiding citizen has a gun, so they can later be gathered up when the left has the political power to do it.....that is what happened in Germany, Britain and Australia......we are going to keep it from happening here....

lol you're an idiot. When will our cars be confiscated?

Well asshole, gun confiscation has happened, actually happened in history...it is not a myth......Germany, before they murdered their citizens, and Britian and Australia....France did it right after World War 2 when they rounded up the weapons of the resistance fighters.....so fuck you asshole....

lol, my first melted down poster of the day. Fairly early.

Handguns have been registered in NY for 50+ years. New Yorkers still have handguns. Your prediction isn't working out very well.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Should be more worried about someone carrying any combat knife than pistol. Can kill with a knife very discreetly. Guns are loud and overt.

That's why the RW gun extremists are pushing for the legalization of silencers.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Unless part of 'gun control' is 'gun confiscation' can restrict new purchases all you want and not change a thing.

Problem isn't the means with which people commit violent crimes, but the impulse to be violent in the first place. Take away American guns and they'll just use knives and clubs. It's the culture of 'violence is good, sex is bad' that has to change and what differs from the US to European coutnries. They'd rather have sex with people then start off thinking someone's a physical threat.

You say that people will just use knifes and clubs. Maybe, but knifes and clubs are less likely to kill.

How do you take away violence? Sometimes by giving people self worth, this is often gained by having a decent education and decent prospects in life. Doesn't always work, some people are just violent.

The US needs to change in a whole host of ways. Education for all, rather than what appears to be poor education for the poor, and a cycle of poverty that some just use as justification for right wing policies, when the reality is you don't want to keep people in poverty, you want to make it easier for them to get out.

Better things to focus energies and effort on than taking guns away as though that'll mean anything. People will still be just as violent before, only now they'll be royally pissed off. Good way to start a revolution trying a complete disarming of the public.

 

[gipper]

Racist!!!

 

[gipper]

How does an inanimate object kill people?

Is it a magic trick?

 

[frigidweirdo]

That is because their culture tends to be less violent...they are homogenous, they have very little other crime besides low gun crime, and they have a great deal of respect for the government. Their criminals get fully automatic rifles and 30 round magazines easily..whenever they want them......despite the strict, extreme gun control laws such as those in France....they just don't choose to use them as much....

And Britain has 2 times the violent crime that we do...and they have absolute bans on guns....

So the question is, why do you think less homogenous cultures are more dangerous in the first place? Is it the fact that the US has a mix of races together, or it is that one race is dominant over the others and this causes problems?

We know blacks and hispanics are more likely to commit crimes. Why? Is it because they're more likely to be in poverty, and poverty seems to lead to higher crime levels among those in poverty, or is it that people who are poor and kept in poverty use crime as a way of getting out?

Either way it would suggest that the US needs to do more to make life a little more equal. And no, I'm not talking about positive discrimination here. I'm talking better and more intelligent education with aims that are for kids to achieve their potentials as much as possible, and to direct education towards the needs of the kids and their styles of learning and so on.

Also, why do you think that Europeans have more respect for their governments? I'd say it's not hard to see that US politics is generally just a manner in which large companies with lots of money buy the power they want. Hardly likely to gain any respect, especially from poorer people who are constantly getting shafted by the government.

Who gets sent to war, the rich or the poor? Who get shot at, the rich or the poor? Who gets out of paying their taxes, the rich or the poor?

As for the violent crime statistics, I think they may be a little misleading.

Violent crime - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Just this little from wikipedia.

"The United Kingdom includes all violence against the person, sexual offences, and robbery as violent crime."

Right, gotta go, this is just a brief of what I want to say, I was looking for other stuff but then work got in the way.

 

[Wildman]

"Gun control" has nothing to do with Liberals.

i have never seen a bigger lie than this in many years..., well, at least on this thread. .....

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

The Wing Nuts had us pinned down at the fort
Cisco came in blastin', drinkin' port

 

[Wildman]

If laws don't do anything, why do we have any.

laws are for the law abiding citizens, liberscum criminals pay no attention to laws.., does that help you understand basic logic ?

 

[Wildman]

Its not because I am a control freak. It's because I am a safety-freak.

CORRECTION.., you are just a plain all around fucking liberfreak, and your avatar has got to your best selfie.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

The Trend is your Friends and Friends don't let Friends vote Republican..

 

[frigidweirdo]

Arrest criminals caught with guns and put them in jail a long time.....that fixes the problem, they won't want to be caught in possession of a gun, or commit a crime with a gun...that way you focus on the problem...criminals, not law abiding gun owners who don't use guns to break the law.....

As I pointed out, European criminals get guns as easily as our criminals do...even easier since they get fully automatic rifles whenever they want....so their gun laws are no more effective than our gun laws are at Preventing gun violence........

Which happens already and isn't solving the problem.

Also, in Europe the number of prisoners is LESS per capita.

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The US is number 2, behind the Seychelles, 707 people per 100,000 compared to....

England and Wales at 148, France at 103, Germany at 78, Spain at 144, Sweden at 60.... and so on.

So, it clearly isn't working for the US. 5 to 10 times more prisoners, 5 times more murders.


Take rape for example, in the US it's considered to be majorly under reported.

Rape statistics - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"The majority of rapes in the United States go unreported. According to the American Medical Association (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime."

In the UK and Europe women are more likely to report rape because there has been a concerted effort to get it reported. And as this is considered violent crime in the UK then it adds to the statistics.

69 000 female 9 000 male rape victims per year visualised get the full data News The Guardian

"Given its nature as an estimate, the figure of 78,000 is perhaps best stated alongside the upper and lower limits of its 95% confidence interval: 60,000 and 95,000 respectively."

So the estimates are for about 78,000 rapes.

In the US "A 2011 report on prison rape by the BJS stated that "in 2008 there were at least 69,800 inmates who were raped under conditions involving force or threat of force, and more than 216,600 total victims of sexual abuse, in America’s prisons, jails, and juvenile detention centers.""

Are any of these reported as violent crime?

Rape in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 173,610 victims of rape or sexual assault, or 0.1% of the US population 12 or older in 2013."

Probably not, seeing as this is about 40% of the level of rape. I can't imagine that the US rape rate is more than half the UK rape rate.

"Rapes and Sexual Assaults are rarely reported to law enforcement. A 2014 report by the Department of Justice showed that only 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities."

So, in theory we can triple that number to 52,000, which would put it to 100,000 which is potentially higher than the UK rate. But we're working on unknowns, so, probably, the rape rates aren't that different, the difference is one goes to report UK violent crime whereas the other may or may not (I haven't come across anything that indicates either way yet) but anyway the number is far too low.

In fact the NCVS reports rape at 1.3 and the UCR at 0.3 because they only use forcible rape.
Robbery for the NCVS is 2.8 and for the UCR it's 1.1
Aggravated assault for the NCVS is 3.8 and for the UCR it's 2.4

Why the differences? It's all about how things are reported. So violent crime can be whatever you want it to be. Hence why saying that the UK has much higher crimes rates compared to the US is difficult. Certainly there are parts of the US, non-large cities that are incredibly safe, more so than in, say, the UK. However bigger cities in the UK are generally much safer. I've never lived in London and wouldn't want to, nor would I want to live in a big US city. I've seen enough of cities in bother countries, and in other European countries.

So, locking people up works? Doesn't seem to. Diddling the statistics seems to help.... not.

 

[BluesLegend]

Any pro-gun rant that assumes all liberals want to totally ban guns is misinformed and should be disregarded.

You know damn well the vast majority of lowlife scum anti-gun anti-constitution gun control freaks are libs. Not all, just almost all.

I am all for cons carrying guns on them. In their households, on their kids, wives, in their bedrooms, in their own private situations like birthday parties, weddings, in their own backyard. Keep the guns everywhere you like.

I bet you probably live in fear of your life every second of your life, which is why you carry deadly weapons on you. Fortunately, most normal people nlcuding liberals, do not live their lives in total fear of losing it every 5 seconds.

What do you do when you go out for a walk in the park? Look over your shoulders every 2 seconds to make sure no criminal is ffollowing you? Do you provide deadly weapons to your kids when they go out to play or visit their friends in the next block away from you? Do you hire security detail to protect your wife and girlfriend when she goes shopping at a local mall?

Thank "god" unlike you, we on the left don't exactly love in panic mode 24-7.

You are an idiot of epic proportions. Unlike you clown I have been mugged in a city park in broad daylight by two black thugs and I have experienced a home invasion. Trust me the police are not going to magically appear and save you imbecile.

Too bad people like you are the ones I fear the most. You might think of yourself as Clint Eastwood, who can settle every confrontation on the street at a barrel of your gun. You being mugged does not mean the remaining 320 million Americans need to live in fear of weapons on morons like yourself.

You might get into a shootout and hurt your wife, your kids who may be around you at the time you were mugged. A mugging is not worth the life of you or your child. If you pull out a gun, chances are you will be shot dead if the other guy sees you pull it out.

It's morons like yourself you never think about return fire. Your focus always remains on pointing weapons at others. You never think about the other guy having a weapon on him who can do as much harm to you as you want to do to him, regardless of who is right.

I imagine a scenario where a thief might want to rob a McDonalds. You are waiting in the line with your wife and kids. You decide to pull out the gun. The thief's partner is behind you. He unloads a barrage of bullets into you. And your kid sees you leaking blood from your brain, assuming she was not hit in the head herself.

Yes, enjoy your Clint Eastwood and Arnold Schwarzenegger fantasies. In real life, I bet, people like you will be the first ones the paramedics remove from the restaurant lobby, if not your other family members. Instead os staying quiet and letting the thieves take away cash, you will end up losing $5 million cash for your brain surgery and lifelong therapy and medication, assuming you survive the gun battle.

Why didn't I think of that just lay down and let the bad guys rape and murder us that's brilliant, I mean that worked out so well for the young couple in TN who were car jacked, raped multiple times, tortured, the woman had bleach poured down her throat while she was alive, what was I thinking arming myself I should have just took your advice. /SARCASM

 

[BluesLegend]

You know damn well the vast majority of lowlife scum anti-gun anti-constitution gun control freaks are libs. Not all, just almost all.

I am all for cons carrying guns on them. In their households, on their kids, wives, in their bedrooms, in their own private situations like birthday parties, weddings, in their own backyard. Keep the guns everywhere you like.

I bet you probably live in fear of your life every second of your life, which is why you carry deadly weapons on you. Fortunately, most normal people nlcuding liberals, do not live their lives in total fear of losing it every 5 seconds.

What do you do when you go out for a walk in the park? Look over your shoulders every 2 seconds to make sure no criminal is ffollowing you? Do you provide deadly weapons to your kids when they go out to play or visit their friends in the next block away from you? Do you hire security detail to protect your wife and girlfriend when she goes shopping at a local mall?

Thank "god" unlike you, we on the left don't exactly love in panic mode 24-7.

You are an idiot of epic proportions. Unlike you clown I have been mugged in a city park in broad daylight by two black thugs and I have experienced a home invasion. Trust me the police are not going to magically appear and save you imbecile.

Too bad people like you are the ones I fear the most. You might think of yourself as Clint Eastwood, who can settle every confrontation on the street at a barrel of your gun. You being mugged does not mean the remaining 320 million Americans need to live in fear of weapons on morons like yourself.

You might get into a shootout and hurt your wife, your kids who may be around you at the time you were mugged. A mugging is not worth the life of you or your child. If you pull out a gun, chances are you will be shot dead if the other guy sees you pull it out.

It's morons like yourself you never think about return fire. Your focus always remains on pointing weapons at others. You never think about the other guy having a weapon on him who can do as much harm to you as you want to do to him, regardless of who is right.

I imagine a scenario where a thief might want to rob a McDonalds. You are waiting in the line with your wife and kids. You decide to pull out the gun. The thief's partner is behind you. He unloads a barrage of bullets into you. And your kid sees you leaking blood from your brain, assuming she was not hit in the head herself.

Yes, enjoy your Clint Eastwood and Arnold Schwarzenegger fantasies. In real life, I bet, people like you will be the first ones the paramedics remove from the restaurant lobby, if not your other family members. Instead os staying quiet and letting the thieves take away cash, you will end up losing $5 million cash for your brain surgery and lifelong therapy and medication, assuming you survive the gun battle.

Hey dickhead how many two way ranges have you ever been on? Untrained people tend not to shoot so straight when facing equal or superior firepower.

Oh wow, so now you've decided that the other guy can't shoot better than you and you are going to win every gun battle, eh? What a DF you really are. I fear for the lives of your family members who may be with you at the time you engage in gun violence. Haha, Darwin has a strange way of controlling our gene pool. Go for it, live the Taliban Clint Eastwood lifestyle you so lust for. I will enjoy watching the 11 PM news with you lying on a blood soaked white sheet somewhere.

You obviously are not an American, France would be my guess or worse Canadian.

 

[2aguy]

Arrest criminals caught with guns and put them in jail a long time.....that fixes the problem, they won't want to be caught in possession of a gun, or commit a crime with a gun...that way you focus on the problem...criminals, not law abiding gun owners who don't use guns to break the law.....

As I pointed out, European criminals get guns as easily as our criminals do...even easier since they get fully automatic rifles whenever they want....so their gun laws are no more effective than our gun laws are at Preventing gun violence........

Which happens already and isn't solving the problem.

Also, in Europe the number of prisoners is LESS per capita.

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The US is number 2, behind the Seychelles, 707 people per 100,000 compared to....

England and Wales at 148, France at 103, Germany at 78, Spain at 144, Sweden at 60.... and so on.

So, it clearly isn't working for the US. 5 to 10 times more prisoners, 5 times more murders.


Take rape for example, in the US it's considered to be majorly under reported.

Rape statistics - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"The majority of rapes in the United States go unreported. According to the American Medical Association (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime."

In the UK and Europe women are more likely to report rape because there has been a concerted effort to get it reported. And as this is considered violent crime in the UK then it adds to the statistics.

69 000 female 9 000 male rape victims per year visualised get the full data News The Guardian

"Given its nature as an estimate, the figure of 78,000 is perhaps best stated alongside the upper and lower limits of its 95% confidence interval: 60,000 and 95,000 respectively."

So the estimates are for about 78,000 rapes.

In the US "A 2011 report on prison rape by the BJS stated that "in 2008 there were at least 69,800 inmates who were raped under conditions involving force or threat of force, and more than 216,600 total victims of sexual abuse, in America’s prisons, jails, and juvenile detention centers.""

Are any of these reported as violent crime?

Rape in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 173,610 victims of rape or sexual assault, or 0.1% of the US population 12 or older in 2013."

Probably not, seeing as this is about 40% of the level of rape. I can't imagine that the US rape rate is more than half the UK rape rate.

"Rapes and Sexual Assaults are rarely reported to law enforcement. A 2014 report by the Department of Justice showed that only 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities."

So, in theory we can triple that number to 52,000, which would put it to 100,000 which is potentially higher than the UK rate. But we're working on unknowns, so, probably, the rape rates aren't that different, the difference is one goes to report UK violent crime whereas the other may or may not (I haven't come across anything that indicates either way yet) but anyway the number is far too low.

In fact the NCVS reports rape at 1.3 and the UCR at 0.3 because they only use forcible rape.
Robbery for the NCVS is 2.8 and for the UCR it's 1.1
Aggravated assault for the NCVS is 3.8 and for the UCR it's 2.4

Why the differences? It's all about how things are reported. So violent crime can be whatever you want it to be. Hence why saying that the UK has much higher crimes rates compared to the US is difficult. Certainly there are parts of the US, non-large cities that are incredibly safe, more so than in, say, the UK. However bigger cities in the UK are generally much safer. I've never lived in London and wouldn't want to, nor would I want to live in a big US city. I've seen enough of cities in bother countries, and in other European countries.

So, locking people up works? Doesn't seem to. Diddling the statistics seems to help.... not.

Which happens already and isn't solving the problem.

Actually, it is...we had a 7 year old shot in chicago...his father, a high ranking gang leader was the target. The father was arrested earlier on a gun possession charge, he had over 40 arrests on his record. He was released the day after his arrest on the gun charge. That is the problem...not law abiding people owning and carrying guns.

Also, in Europe the number of prisoners is LESS per capita.

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The US is number 2, behind the Seychelles, 707 people per 100,000 compared to....

England and Wales at 148, France at 103, Germany at 78, Spain at 144, Sweden at 60.... and so on.

So, it clearly isn't working for the US. 5 to 10 times more prisoners, 5 times more murders.

Again...the people in Europe commit less crime of any kind than U.S. criminals do....if you want to talk about drug laws, fine, we can talk about that....but for any criminal using a gun in a crime arresting them and locking them up for a long time reduces the murder rate...or do you just want to let them go....? Also, those societies are homogenous, have similiar income levels across the country, and have more respect for authority and their government...unlike our criminals.

Rape in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 173,610 victims of rape or sexual assault, or 0.1% of the US population 12 or older in 2013."

Probably not, seeing as this is about 40% of the level of rape. I can't imagine that the US rape rate is more than half the UK rape rate.

"Rapes and Sexual Assaults are rarely reported to law enforcement. A 2014 report by the Department of Justice showed that only 34.8% cases of sexual assaults are reported to the authorities."

So, in theory we can triple that number to 52,000, which would put it to 100,000 which is potentially higher than the UK rate. But we're working on unknowns, so, probably, the rape rates aren't that different, the difference is one goes to report UK violent crime whereas the other may or may not (I haven't come across anything that indicates either way yet) but anyway the number is far too low.

Do you realize that Sweden...with their extreme gun control, is the rape capital of Europe.....? did you know that guns are the most effective way for a woman to stop a violent rape...according to all the studies conducted on the subject....? That in Europe, their rape rates are going up as they import immigrants from muslim countries where they see European women as promiscuous and therefore unprotected by sharia......

You want to stop violent crime with guns...so do I. The things you suggest will not accomplish what you say you want. The best way to lower gun vioence short term is to arrest gang members caught with guns and put them in jail a long time...

Another story from chicago...we had a shooting last year at a park...three men.....two of them had been arrested on gun charges and sentenced to 3 years in prison...they pled the charges down to the point they were sent to a "Boot Camp," and were out in about 18 months, they got out and about 30 days later they shot up the park killing several people....

Also.....increase police numbers...in Chicago, we are down 2,000 police officers...but they have enough police to take care of the white, democrat leadership members areas, and not enough for the gang infested neighborhoods.....

That is how you stop gun crime, not by licensing people who don't commit crime, or registering the guns of people who don't commit crime....

 

[2aguy]

Should be more worried about someone carrying any combat knife than pistol. Can kill with a knife very discreetly. Guns are loud and overt.

That's why the RW gun extremists are pushing for the legalization of silencers.

They want silencers to protect their hearing....

 

[2aguy]

That is because their culture tends to be less violent...they are homogenous, they have very little other crime besides low gun crime, and they have a great deal of respect for the government. Their criminals get fully automatic rifles and 30 round magazines easily..whenever they want them......despite the strict, extreme gun control laws such as those in France....they just don't choose to use them as much....

And Britain has 2 times the violent crime that we do...and they have absolute bans on guns....

So the question is, why do you think less homogenous cultures are more dangerous in the first place? Is it the fact that the US has a mix of races together, or it is that one race is dominant over the others and this causes problems?

We know blacks and hispanics are more likely to commit crimes. Why? Is it because they're more likely to be in poverty, and poverty seems to lead to higher crime levels among those in poverty, or is it that people who are poor and kept in poverty use crime as a way of getting out?

Either way it would suggest that the US needs to do more to make life a little more equal. And no, I'm not talking about positive discrimination here. I'm talking better and more intelligent education with aims that are for kids to achieve their potentials as much as possible, and to direct education towards the needs of the kids and their styles of learning and so on.

Also, why do you think that Europeans have more respect for their governments? I'd say it's not hard to see that US politics is generally just a manner in which large companies with lots of money buy the power they want. Hardly likely to gain any respect, especially from poorer people who are constantly getting shafted by the government.

Who gets sent to war, the rich or the poor? Who get shot at, the rich or the poor? Who gets out of paying their taxes, the rich or the poor?

As for the violent crime statistics, I think they may be a little misleading.

Violent crime - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Just this little from wikipedia.

"The United Kingdom includes all violence against the person, sexual offences, and robbery as violent crime."

Right, gotta go, this is just a brief of what I want to say, I was looking for other stuff but then work got in the way.

I'm talking better and more intelligent education with aims that are for kids to achieve their potentials as much as possible, and to direct education towards the needs of the kids and their styles of learning and so on.

Then you need to take on the democrat controlled teachers unions who protect the bad teachers and pay off democrat polticians....

We know blacks and hispanics are more likely to commit crimes. Why? Is it because they're more likely to be in poverty, and poverty seems to lead to higher crime levels among those in poverty, or is it that people who are poor and kept in poverty use crime as a way of getting out?

Actually, there are more whites in poverty but blacks commit far more crime, they are 13 % of the population but commit about 70-80% of the violent crime....I would say because they have a higher percent of children raised by single teenage moms with no one role modeling civilized, responsible behavior, and that they excuse violent behavior as just a symptom of racism.....as you see whenever a violent black criminal is arrested.

Europeans have more respect for their government because they come from a culture that had Feudalism and royalty.....and that instilled a distinct class system...and keep in mind...they should have less respect for their governments, their governments shipped large numbers of their citizens off to death camps to be murdered..........

Guns are not the issue...our criminal culture is the issue....