A Question for Pro-Choice Christians

[PostmodernProph]

He was killed not because he actually committed heresy...he didn't....but because the people BELIEVED he was the Messiah.

you have that upside down......they believed he was NOT the Messiah

 

[PostmodernProph]

Some of the stories might have been left out, but Jesus even killed and lied, he laid with a naked boy, he had a lover/wife, he manipulated those closest to him, he sacrificed himself in a way many would call suicide by cop today. He broke the commandment he did not follow the "letter" of the torah. Even his mother became pregnant out of wedlock.

wtf?.......

 

[BluePhantom]

Rational capacity in striking a woman? Unless he was having seizure and stuck her accidentally or was bi-polar and not in control of his own behavior, there is not rational excuse for striking a woman.

So you mean when my ex-girlfriend attacked me with a 12" chef's knife and tried to aggressively stick it into my chest I should't have smacked her?

 

[BluePhantom]

You're confusing subjective, personal religious beliefs with facts of law – abortion is not 'murder,' where indeed as a fact of Constitutional law an embryo/fetus is not a 'person' entitled to 5th and 14th Amendment protections; to maintain that abortion is 'murder' is ignorant and ridiculous.

And yet again...if that is the case why is it that when you kill a pregnant woman you get charged with two counts of murder instead of one?

 

[TrinityPower]

Some of the stories might have been left out, but Jesus even killed and lied, he laid with a naked boy, he had a lover/wife, he manipulated those closest to him, he sacrificed himself in a way many would call suicide by cop today

Not a clue where this came from but I can see why it was left out of the bible. I didn't know that the National Enquirer was in operation back then

 

[aris2chat]

It does seem to be a contradiction huh? The first thing to realize is that being "pro-choice" does not mean one thinks abortion is the right thing to do.

obviously it means they think at least a person who wants to ought to do it.....not a good starting point.....

It I about woman controlling their own body and deciding what is best for them. It is about options and freedom. It is about empowerment instead of slavery. It is about physical and mental health. It is about a woman/girl being grown enough to carry and birth a child. It is about not being tied to a rapist for life.

no.....its about killing a living human being......that can never be a good thing......

when outside the womb breathing and eating on its own, you can call it a living human. In the womb it is fetus dependent on the woman for its life. Every function of it's form from blood to food to disposing of waste is done through the woman's body.

When a test tube can give birth, you can ask for the terms to be rewritten

While in the womb it feeds off the woman like parasite. Without medical intervention, and often that does not work, a fetus cannot live outside the women and if the woman dies, so do the fetus. A seed is not a plant. An egg is not a bird. A fetus is not a singular living human yet.

Choice is a woman's right. No one should take that away from her. A child is a commitment that some people cannot or do not want to take on at a particular time. They might be too young, too old, too ill, too busy, not financially ready, maybe it would interfere with their career, maybe their dont have a partner to help them, maybe they just don't want children ever. The reasons don't matter, it is the woman's life, for nine months or for a life time.

The law permits women to choose. No religion should interfere with that right. Religion does not supersede the state law, separation of church and state.

If some don't approve, they don't ever have to have an abortion. What they believe should not involve interfering in the life, wants and needs of another human being.

You stay in your personal space and stay out of mine. It does not matter if people go to the church, live in the same town or state or country, or live half way around the world. Women are their own person, they have their own thoughts, dreams fears and aspirations. They should have the right to make their own choices. To take that choice away from them is akin to slavery. We abolished slavery.

Worry about your body and your life. Don't dictate to others what they must do. A doctor's visit is a private matter, stay out of the room.

 

[aris2chat]

Rational capacity in striking a woman? Unless he was having seizure and stuck her accidentally or was bi-polar and not in control of his own behavior, there is not rational excuse for striking a woman.

So you mean when my ex-girlfriend attacked me with a 12" chef's knife and tried to aggressively stick it into my chest I should't have smacked her?

Did you do something to deserve it?



Disarm her, restrain her, lock yourself in another room (or her), call police, exit the location.......... There are choices.

There is a difference between self defense and abuse or just striking another person.

You can go to jail for striking a person, even in self defense or defense of another.

 

[Slyhunter]

It does seem to be a contradiction huh? The first thing to realize is that being "pro-choice" does not mean one thinks abortion is the right thing to do.

obviously it means they think at least a person who wants to ought to do it.....not a good starting point.....

It I about woman controlling their own body and deciding what is best for them. It is about options and freedom. It is about empowerment instead of slavery. It is about physical and mental health. It is about a woman/girl being grown enough to carry and birth a child. It is about not being tied to a rapist for life.

no.....its about killing a living human being......that can never be a good thing......

when outside the womb breathing and eating on its own, you can call it a living human. In the womb it is fetus dependent on the woman for its life. Every function of it's form from blood to food to disposing of waste is done through the woman's body.

When a test tube can give birth, you can ask for the terms to be rewritten

While in the womb it feeds off the woman like parasite. Without medical intervention, and often that does not work, a fetus cannot live outside the women and if the woman dies, so do the fetus. A seed is not a plant. An egg is not a bird. A fetus is not a singular living human yet.

Choice is a woman's right. No one should take that away from her. A child is a commitment that some people cannot or do not want to take on at a particular time. They might be too young, too old, too ill, too busy, not financially ready, maybe it would interfere with their career, maybe their dont have a partner to help them, maybe they just don't want children ever. The reasons don't matter, it is the woman's life, for nine months or for a life time.

The law permits women to choose. No religion should interfere with that right. Religion does not supersede the state law, separation of church and state.

If some don't approve, they don't ever have to have an abortion. What they believe should not involve interfering in the life, wants and needs of another human being.

You stay in your personal space and stay out of mine. It does not matter if people go to the church, live in the same town or state or country, or live half way around the world. Women are their own person, they have their own thoughts, dreams fears and aspirations. They should have the right to make their own choices. To take that choice away from them is akin to slavery. We abolished slavery.

Worry about your body and your life. Don't dictate to others what they must do. A doctor's visit is a private matter, stay out of the room.

1. You had the freedom of making that choice, without killing the unborn baby, before you had sex. afterwards it involved the death of an innocent being.

2. It involves a mans life for at least 18 years if she decides to have a kid. So if he's willing to pay for the abortion he should be absolved from having to pay child support regardless of the woman's wishes. As long as abortion is a legal choice.

 

[Slyhunter]

Rational capacity in striking a woman? Unless he was having seizure and stuck her accidentally or was bi-polar and not in control of his own behavior, there is not rational excuse for striking a woman.

So you mean when my ex-girlfriend attacked me with a 12" chef's knife and tried to aggressively stick it into my chest I should't have smacked her?

Did you do something to deserve it?



Disarm her, restrain her, lock yourself in another room (or her), call police, exit the location.......... There are choices.

There is a difference between self defense and abuse or just striking another person.

You can go to jail for striking a person, even in self defense or defense of another.

Are you saying, He deserved being attacked with a knife?

 

[koshergrl]

He was killed not because he actually committed heresy...he didn't....but because the people BELIEVED he was the Messiah.

you have that upside down......they believed he was NOT the Messiah

No, the people believed he was the Messiah. He drew huge crowds.

The Pharisees wanted him dead because he made them obsolete. Plus he chewed their asses in the name of God.

 

[aris2chat]

He was killed not because he actually committed heresy...he didn't....but because the people BELIEVED he was the Messiah.

you have that upside down......they believed he was NOT the Messiah

No, the people believed he was the Messiah. He drew huge crowds.

The Pharisees wanted him dead because he made them obsolete. Plus he chewed their asses in the name of God.

For temple leaders, his words and actions were blasphemy. For the romans, the idea of him being the king of the jews was a threat to the empire.

Jesus could have avoided his end, but instead did everything to bring it about.

 

[PredFan]

How are you able to reconcile the legitimacy of elective abortion with the conception and birth of Jesus? Should Mary have had the right to terminate her pregnancy? How about Elizabeth, within whom John the Baptist stirred when she met Mary? Would terminating that pregnancy also have been all right with you?

I would appreciate an explanation of this seeming contradiction of viewpoints.

Why do I have to reconcile those two? Apples and oranges.

 

[PredFan]

Pro choice Christian is sort of an oxymoron

Not at all.

 

[koshergrl]

CClaytonJones:
To oppose 'banning' abortion does not mean one 'supports' the practice.
Yes, it does. Anyone, especially someone who claims to be a Christian, who is not actively opposing abortion is supporting abortion. Millions of innocent lives have been snuffed out since Roe v. Wade was unconstitutionally made "law of the land" by the SCOTUS.
Your blather about about "privacy" and the Constitution giving someone the "right" to kill their unborn child is about as far from the will of God and the example of Christ as one can get.

No, it doesn't.

Again, it's perfectly appropriate and consistent to oppose abortion as a matter of subjective personal opinion or subjective religious belief while also respecting a woman's right to privacy, respecting the Constitution and its case law, and acknowledging the fact that the state has no authority to compel a woman to give birth against her will.

Subjective, personal religious beliefs and facts of law are two completely separate issues, one having nothing to do with the other – attempting to conflate the two fails as a false comparison fallacy.

It isn't a fact that the "state has no authority to compel a woman to give birth against her will" because the state is not GOD. The state is not NATURE. And it is God, or if you like, Nature, that dictates that at some point a pregnant woman gives birth, or, alternately, doesn't. The state does not have the authority to declare that the murder of innocents is legal and a *right*. Nobody has the *right* to deliberately target and kill innocents. Nobody has the *right* to exploit women in a manner that puts their lives and well being in jeopardy for the sake of money. And when I mean "nobody" I mean the state. Or PP. Or the men who benefit the most from legalized back alley abortions that relieve them from responsibility for the children they create and the women they abuse.

The state should never have gotten into the business of sex, marriage and childbirth, but lefties are morons and thought that if they could just get the state involved in those things, they could tell the churches what to do, and the people what to believe, and blah blah blah.

Well you can't, and you won't. Whatever you think about a woman's right to kill her kids, and a pervert's right to abuse her in an abortion clinic..it doesn't matter. Because nobody is putting up with it anymore. Nobody believes any of the ridiculous shit you spew any more, and have come to understand that one of the absolute most horrible things this country has ever done was pass Roe v. Wade.

 

[Taz]

Pro-choice Christians are unclear on the two concepts.

 

[PostmodernProph]

when outside the womb breathing and eating on its own, you can call it a living human.

when you learn some high school level biology you will find out it is both alive and human......until then you are allowed to be ignorant........

 

[PostmodernProph]

While in the womb it feeds off the woman like parasite.

"Honey, the doctor's office just called! The tests came back positive! We're having a parasite!".........

 

[toxicmedia]

How are you able to reconcile the legitimacy of elective abortion with the conception and birth of Jesus? Should Mary have had the right to terminate her pregnancy? How about Elizabeth, within whom John the Baptist stirred when she met Mary? Would terminating that pregnancy also have been all right with you?

I would appreciate an explanation of this seeming contradiction of viewpoints.

I'm a pro choice Presbyterian, and it would have been sad if Jesus and John were aborted, but I'm pro choice even with people 2000 years ago.

God would have been smart enough to keep impregnating virgins till somebody didn't abort the Lord, and/or apostles.

 

[PostmodernProph]

You stay in your personal space and stay out of mine

then don't kill living human children in your personal space.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

He was killed not because he actually committed heresy...he didn't....but because the people BELIEVED he was the Messiah.

you have that upside down......they believed he was NOT the Messiah

No, the people believed he was the Messiah.

not the ones that wanted him killed.......