A question for the pro-abortion aka pro-choice crowd

[Dragon]

You obviously don't understand the dynamics at work.

You are mistaken, I understand it perfectly, and I DESPISE it.

Then, as now, guests received a protected status in a home

You're not getting it. I don't fault Lot for refusing to yield up his guests to be raped. I fault him for offering his daughters to be raped instead. There is no possible excuse for that; it is simply loathesome. To try to justify it on any basis, including the laws of hospitality, is, quite honestly, nauseating. I have no idea how you can do that and look at yourself in the mirror afterwards.

God would have spared Sodom if Lot could have found ten good men there.

Yes, yes, I know the story. Again, you don't seem to get it. I'm not defending the men of Sodom, I'm simply saying that Lot was obviously no better than they were and in some ways worse.

 

[Dr.Drock]

You obviously don't understand the dynamics at work.

You are mistaken, I understand it perfectly, and I DESPISE it.

Then, as now, guests received a protected status in a home

You're not getting it. I don't fault Lot for refusing to yield up his guests to be raped. I fault him for offering his daughters to be raped instead. There is no possible excuse for that; it is simply loathesome. To try to justify it on any basis, including the laws of hospitality, is, quite honestly, nauseating. I have no idea how you can do that and look at yourself in the mirror afterwards.

God would have spared Sodom if Lot could have found ten good men there.

Yes, yes, I know the story. Again, you don't seem to get it. I'm not defending the men of Sodom, I'm simply saying that Lot was obviously no better than they were and in some ways worse.

Don't waste your breath looking for rational thought out of koshergirl with regards to the Old Testament. She told me forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist was a good thing, and would be a good idea if we did that in society now.

 

[BDBoop]

Don't waste your breath looking for rational thought out of koshergirl with regards to the Old Testament. She told me forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist was a good thing, and would be a good idea if we did that in society now.

Holy shit.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Don't waste your breath looking for rational thought out of koshergirl with regards to the Old Testament. She told me forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist was a good thing, and would be a good idea if we did that in society now.

Holy shit.

I doubt she actually thinks that, but she feels she had to say that so that she wouldn't be going against the Old Testament on a public forum.

I'm sure if she were raped she wouldn't be thinking of what her vows would be and where she'd go on a honeymoon with her attacker.

 

[BDBoop]

Don't waste your breath looking for rational thought out of koshergirl with regards to the Old Testament. She told me forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist was a good thing, and would be a good idea if we did that in society now.

Holy shit.

I doubt she actually thinks that, but she feels she had to say that so that she wouldn't be going against the Old Testament on a public forum.

I'm sure if she were raped she wouldn't be thinking of what her vows would be and where she'd go on a honeymoon with her attacker.

Probably not. But if she's going to let go of most of the OT, I think she needs to let go of all of it.

 

[FurthurBB]

Is there a non-selfish reason to kill your child?

Well, I think most people who kill their children actually do not do it for selfish reasons, but because they are insane or have an anger management problem. Now for abortion, I had sort of an abortion in a catholic hospital. They actually just dilated my cervix so that the miscarriage that had been going on for three weeks could complete before I bled to death. See, I am actually one of those 1 in 1,000,000 women that really got pregnant on the pill and there was no missed doses or antibiotic use. So, the hormones were at full levels, meaning I only made 1/4 of the endometrium that a woman not on the pill makes, and my cervix was thick and constricted. I actually found out I was pregnant three weeks in, not because I felt pregnant or skipped a period but because I was in excruciating pain. They found out I was pregnant and told me that babies conceived when you are at full birth control pill hormone are not viable and that I should get a chemical abortion right then to save a lot of heartache and save my own life. I didn't want to, they did an ultrasound at 3 & 1/2 weeks and the placenta was already coming away from the uterine wall. At 7 weeks I started bleeding really heavy and they said that my body was trying to miscarry, but my cervix would not dilate so the fetus was stuck in the birth canal. They let that go on for 3 weeks, giving me different things telling me to walk. Finally when I went into shock from a lack of blood to my organs and had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance they went ahead and dilated my cervix and it was all over 15 minutes later. If I had it to do over again, I would have listen to the doctor the first time and gotten the abortion right then. She obviously knew better than me.

 

[koshergrl]

You obviously don't understand the dynamics at work.

You are mistaken, I understand it perfectly, and I DESPISE it.

Then, as now, guests received a protected status in a home

You're not getting it. I don't fault Lot for refusing to yield up his guests to be raped. I fault him for offering his daughters to be raped instead. There is no possible excuse for that; it is simply loathesome. To try to justify it on any basis, including the laws of hospitality, is, quite honestly, nauseating. I have no idea how you can do that and look at yourself in the mirror afterwards.

God would have spared Sodom if Lot could have found ten good men there.

Yes, yes, I know the story. Again, you don't seem to get it. I'm not defending the men of Sodom, I'm simply saying that Lot was obviously no better than they were and in some ways worse.

No, you don't get it because you are applying your own bias and modern sensibilities to an ancient tradition that STILL EXISTS in that part of the world. You might think it's loathsome, you have that right. But don't pretend to me that your civilized and sophisticated understanding of what is right and what is wrong has any sort of bearing on this particular tradition, or acts as any moral compass where it is concerned. People continue to put themselves and their entire families at risk by applying the same cultural standard. If you offer hospitality to a person in the desert, regardless of who that person turns out to be, you cannot then withhold that hospitality and throw those guests to the wolves. You and your whole body are responsible for them, at risk of death and with the understanding that you and your loved ones may be held hostage to this cultural norm, suffer, die, be separated, killed, or have to flee the country.

It still happens. And the people who are perpetuating it now are MUSLIMS, not Christians. It is an ANCIENT TRIBAL CUSTOM. So take your superior and ignorant attitude, shove it up your ass where it belongs, and read up on this allegedly despicable "biblical" custom you find so abohorrent.

Or not. But kindly drop the attidude based on your mistaken understanding of where this custom came from, and stop blaming the Bible, or God, or whatever other misplaced arbiter you have determined is the originator of the custom, and quit pretending that your modern understanding of it today has any bearing on the morality of what happened when God destroyed the foulest city the world has ever known, based on the fact that there were roaming bands of depraved, drunken homosexuals roaming the streets at night, raping and murdering men and gathering at the homes of godly people demanding that they provide up their guests to be tortured, sodomized, and killed.

 

[JohnA]

You never had a case, clown!

Once again, like the troofer idiots, the pro-choicers try to tell ya' what ya' think.

And it happens because they can't defend their choice to wantonely exterminate innocent human life.

Btw, get your self an education, or lay off the fucking pipe.....Your writing is like that of a 6 year old, son.

Now, genius, how about you have the balls to answer the question about a fathers rights.

You life exterminators always avoid it like the plague......And we know why!

hy dickhead I write like that so your prolife morons can understand

what questions about fathers rights thats easy im prochoice means the parents have the *choice of birthing or not * yes the fathers wishes as those of the mother should be taken into consideration when making a decision why not depends on the cercumstances thou each case is differant

why do you suggest ive avoided it

what you avoid is the question all pro lifers avoid like the plague

if all fetuses / embros have the right to life
why is it okay to abort if the pregnancy was the result of rape or incest ?

Seems to me if you advocate that you are the one exterminating innocent human life

think before you write asshole

Dude, learn about grammar, before trying to spew your non-sensical bullshit.

Christ, man, you are the poster child of our abjectly failing public school system.

Bunch o' fuckin' dumbasses!

your the dumb ass dude believing in a magic man in the sky.
easier to attack the poster than answering the statement isnt it ?

you lose dude

 

[Dragon]

No, you don't get it because you are applying your own bias and modern sensibilities to an ancient tradition that STILL EXISTS in that part of the world

But that's exactly the point I was making: that these are antiquated, barbaric values appropriate (maybe) to a harsh, cruel, insensitive culture, but completely wrong -- appallingly wrong -- for modern times and modern society. I am, after all, addressing modern people who live in a modern society, am I not? I mean, everyone who lived in ancient Sodom is long since dead, is that not so? And none of us here is a Bedouin nomad or a primitive Afghan sheepherder, right?

I do not doubt that the authors of the Book of Genesis, whoever they were, considered Lot's behavior appropriate to their own values. That is, in fact, exactly my point: because they are not values that any civilized society should accept. And the Bible cannot at the same time enshrine those primitive, barbaric values and be anything appropriate to modern people living in a modern society. The two are absolutely incompatible.

 

[Dr.Drock]

No, you don't get it because you are applying your own bias and modern sensibilities to an ancient tradition that STILL EXISTS in that part of the world

But that's exactly the point I was making: that these are antiquated, barbaric values appropriate (maybe) to a harsh, cruel, insensitive culture, but completely wrong -- appallingly wrong -- for modern times and modern society. I am, after all, addressing modern people who live in a modern society, am I not? I mean, everyone who lived in ancient Sodom is long since dead, is that not so? And none of us here is a Bedouin nomad or a primitive Afghan sheepherder, right?

I do not doubt that the authors of the Book of Genesis, whoever they were, considered Lot's behavior appropriate to their own values. That is, in fact, exactly my point: because they are not values that any civilized society should accept. And the Bible cannot at the same time enshrine those primitive, barbaric values and be anything appropriate to modern people living in a modern society. The two are absolutely incompatible.

Not the Bible completely, it's the Old Testament that's filled with tons of morally revolting things, the New Testament is filled with mostly great moral things.

 

[Dragon]

Not the Bible completely, it's the Old Testament that's filled with tons of morally revolting things, the New Testament is filled with mostly great moral things.

You are of course correct. As long as we retain the right to criticize, there can be a lot of good things found in the Bible.

 

[BDBoop]

Is there a non-selfish reason to kill your child?

Well, I think most people who kill their children actually do not do it for selfish reasons, but because they are insane or have an anger management problem. Now for abortion, I had sort of an abortion in a catholic hospital. They actually just dilated my cervix so that the miscarriage that had been going on for three weeks could complete before I bled to death. See, I am actually one of those 1 in 1,000,000 women that really got pregnant on the pill and there was no missed doses or antibiotic use. So, the hormones were at full levels, meaning I only made 1/4 of the endometrium that a woman not on the pill makes, and my cervix was thick and constricted. I actually found out I was pregnant three weeks in, not because I felt pregnant or skipped a period but because I was in excruciating pain. They found out I was pregnant and told me that babies conceived when you are at full birth control pill hormone are not viable and that I should get a chemical abortion right then to save a lot of heartache and save my own life. I didn't want to, they did an ultrasound at 3 & 1/2 weeks and the placenta was already coming away from the uterine wall. At 7 weeks I started bleeding really heavy and they said that my body was trying to miscarry, but my cervix would not dilate so the fetus was stuck in the birth canal. They let that go on for 3 weeks, giving me different things telling me to walk. Finally when I went into shock from a lack of blood to my organs and had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance they went ahead and dilated my cervix and it was all over 15 minutes later. If I had it to do over again, I would have listen to the doctor the first time and gotten the abortion right then. She obviously knew better than me.

Re: the bolded bit. Where on earth did you come up with that idea?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Is there a non-selfish reason to kill your child?

Well, I think most people who kill their children actually do not do it for selfish reasons, but because they are insane or have an anger management problem. Now for abortion, I had sort of an abortion in a catholic hospital. They actually just dilated my cervix so that the miscarriage that had been going on for three weeks could complete before I bled to death. See, I am actually one of those 1 in 1,000,000 women that really got pregnant on the pill and there was no missed doses or antibiotic use. So, the hormones were at full levels, meaning I only made 1/4 of the endometrium that a woman not on the pill makes, and my cervix was thick and constricted. I actually found out I was pregnant three weeks in, not because I felt pregnant or skipped a period but because I was in excruciating pain. They found out I was pregnant and told me that babies conceived when you are at full birth control pill hormone are not viable and that I should get a chemical abortion right then to save a lot of heartache and save my own life. I didn't want to, they did an ultrasound at 3 & 1/2 weeks and the placenta was already coming away from the uterine wall. At 7 weeks I started bleeding really heavy and they said that my body was trying to miscarry, but my cervix would not dilate so the fetus was stuck in the birth canal. They let that go on for 3 weeks, giving me different things telling me to walk. Finally when I went into shock from a lack of blood to my organs and had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance they went ahead and dilated my cervix and it was all over 15 minutes later. If I had it to do over again, I would have listen to the doctor the first time and gotten the abortion right then. She obviously knew better than me.

Re: the bolded bit. Where on earth did you come up with that idea?

He's talking about killing born children, not abortion. Hard to say if it's for selfish reasons or not, but the parents most certainly are.

In one example though, all the parents in Oregon who kill their kids by refusing to give them medical treatment and try to pray away illnesses/infections/sicknesses/etc, that would be an example of killing for selfish reasons, forcing their crazy religious views on their kids.

Followers of Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[koshergrl]

You obviously don't understand the dynamics at work.

You are mistaken, I understand it perfectly, and I DESPISE it.



You're not getting it. I don't fault Lot for refusing to yield up his guests to be raped. I fault him for offering his daughters to be raped instead. There is no possible excuse for that; it is simply loathesome. To try to justify it on any basis, including the laws of hospitality, is, quite honestly, nauseating. I have no idea how you can do that and look at yourself in the mirror afterwards.

God would have spared Sodom if Lot could have found ten good men there.

Yes, yes, I know the story. Again, you don't seem to get it. I'm not defending the men of Sodom, I'm simply saying that Lot was obviously no better than they were and in some ways worse.

Don't waste your breath looking for rational thought out of koshergirl with regards to the Old Testament. She told me forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist was a good thing, and would be a good idea if we did that in society now.

Yeah, you go ahead and link that, you lying sack of shit.

I said it seems to be an effective way of dealing with the issue in that time, and probably would be effective today. Not quite the same thing.

 

[Gadawg73]

You are mistaken, I understand it perfectly, and I DESPISE it.



You're not getting it. I don't fault Lot for refusing to yield up his guests to be raped. I fault him for offering his daughters to be raped instead. There is no possible excuse for that; it is simply loathesome. To try to justify it on any basis, including the laws of hospitality, is, quite honestly, nauseating. I have no idea how you can do that and look at yourself in the mirror afterwards.



Yes, yes, I know the story. Again, you don't seem to get it. I'm not defending the men of Sodom, I'm simply saying that Lot was obviously no better than they were and in some ways worse.

Don't waste your breath looking for rational thought out of koshergirl with regards to the Old Testament. She told me forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist was a good thing, and would be a good idea if we did that in society now.

Yeah, you go ahead and link that, you lying sack of shit.

I said it seems to be an effective way of dealing with the issue in that time, and probably would be effective today. Not quite the same thing.

"it seems to be an effective way of dealing with the issue in that time"
How so?
"seemed" is the approprate tense for the past.
Is the spread too high or too low Georgia/Ole Miss?
Do you like Go Bananas in the 6th at Calder at 10-1?

 

[Dragon]

I said it seems to be an effective way of dealing with the issue in that time, and probably would be effective today. Not quite the same thing.

It is, in fact, exactly the same thing, particularly the second clause. "An effective way of dealing with the issue at that time" could be interpreted as the same sort of multicultural relativity you advanced above, but "probably would be effective today" is an endorsement for these times, not those times, and as such, utterly abhorrent. Once again, I am amazed you can look at yourself in the mirror.

 

[Gadawg73]

I said it seems to be an effective way of dealing with the issue in that time, and probably would be effective today. Not quite the same thing.

It is, in fact, exactly the same thing, particularly the second clause. "An effective way of dealing with the issue at that time" could be interpreted as the same sort of multicultural relativity you advanced above, but "probably would be effective today" is an endorsement for these times, not those times, and as such, utterly abhorrent. Once again, I am amazed you can look at yourself in the mirror.

If she looks as good as her avatar she could.
But she can't.

 

[koshergrl]

All hail the king of irrelevance. As interesting as your input is..oh wait, it's not interesting at all. So I guess it's just boring, irrelevant, and juvenile...meant no doubt to cover the fact that you know very little about the topics you seem to love to opine on.

And also to hide the fact that in Dragon you have actually found a poster (next to Grump and Drock, of course) who is your equal in senseless pontification.

 

[Dragon]

All hail the king of irrelevance. [snip]

When you descend from any attempt at logical argument or the presentation of evidence into angry, empty rhetoric, you confess having failed.

 

[logical4u]

Is there a non-selfish reason to kill your child?

Well, I think most people who kill their children actually do not do it for selfish reasons, but because they are insane or have an anger management problem. Now for abortion, I had sort of an abortion in a catholic hospital. They actually just dilated my cervix so that the miscarriage that had been going on for three weeks could complete before I bled to death. See, I am actually one of those 1 in 1,000,000 women that really got pregnant on the pill and there was no missed doses or antibiotic use. So, the hormones were at full levels, meaning I only made 1/4 of the endometrium that a woman not on the pill makes, and my cervix was thick and constricted. I actually found out I was pregnant three weeks in, not because I felt pregnant or skipped a period but because I was in excruciating pain. They found out I was pregnant and told me that babies conceived when you are at full birth control pill hormone are not viable and that I should get a chemical abortion right then to save a lot of heartache and save my own life. I didn't want to, they did an ultrasound at 3 & 1/2 weeks and the placenta was already coming away from the uterine wall. At 7 weeks I started bleeding really heavy and they said that my body was trying to miscarry, but my cervix would not dilate so the fetus was stuck in the birth canal. They let that go on for 3 weeks, giving me different things telling me to walk. Finally when I went into shock from a lack of blood to my organs and had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance they went ahead and dilated my cervix and it was all over 15 minutes later. If I had it to do over again, I would have listen to the doctor the first time and gotten the abortion right then. She obviously knew better than me.

I am sorry for your loss, and that you had to go thru that. I hope you find peace.