A question to the left, please explain this to me:

[peach174]

And New Zealand and Singapore have universal health care paid through taxation. Don't forget to mention that with your brilliant post.
(snicker)

No they don't.
New Zealand has a mixture of public and private as well as Singapore
Health care in New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore
Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore's system uses a combination of compulsory savings from payroll deductions to provide subsidies within a nationalized health insurance plan known as Medisave. Within Medisave, each citizen accumulates funds that are individually tracked, and such funds can be pooled within and across an entire extended family. The vast majority of Singapore citizens have substantial savings in this scheme. One of three levels of subsidy is chosen by the patient at the time of the healthcare episode.

A key principle of Singapore's national health scheme is that no medical service is provided free of charge, regardless of the level of subsidy, even within the public healthcare system. This mechanism is intended to reduce the overutilisation of healthcare services, a phenomenon often seen in fully subsidised universal health insurance systems

How about that - something fairly similar that the Republicans introduced.

That is not a free market. That is a highly regulated market.

It's a mixture that causes both to have competition.
The Accident Compensation Corporation covers the costs of treatment for cases deemed 'accidents', including medical misadventure, for all people legally in New Zealand (including tourists), with the costs recovered via levies on employers, employees and some other sources such as car registration.
The relatively extensive and high-quality system of public hospitals treats citizens or permanent residents free of charge and is managed by District Health Boards. However, costly or difficult operations often require long waiting list delays unless the treatment is medically urgent.[1] Because of this, a secondary market of health insurance schemes exists which fund operations and treatments for their members privately. Southern Cross Health Insurance, a non-profit-scheme, is the largest of these at about 60% of the health insurance market and covering almost a quarter of all New Zealanders in 2007, even operating its own chain of hospitals.[2]
Primary care (non-specialist doctors / family doctors) and medications on the list of the New Zealand government agency PHARMAC require co-payments, but are subsidised, especially for patients with community health services cards or high user health cards.
Emergency services are primarily provided by St. John New Zealand charity (as well as Wellington Free Ambulance in the Wellington Region), supported with a mix of private (donated) and public (subsidy) funds

 

[NYcarbineer]

No they don't.
New Zealand has a mixture of public and private as well as Singapore
Health care in New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore
Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore's system uses a combination of compulsory savings from payroll deductions to provide subsidies within a nationalized health insurance plan known as Medisave. Within Medisave, each citizen accumulates funds that are individually tracked, and such funds can be pooled within and across an entire extended family. The vast majority of Singapore citizens have substantial savings in this scheme. One of three levels of subsidy is chosen by the patient at the time of the healthcare episode.

A key principle of Singapore's national health scheme is that no medical service is provided free of charge, regardless of the level of subsidy, even within the public healthcare system. This mechanism is intended to reduce the overutilisation of healthcare services, a phenomenon often seen in fully subsidised universal health insurance systems

How about that - something fairly similar that the Republicans introduced.

That is not a free market. That is a highly regulated market.

It's a mixture that causes both to have competition.
The Accident Compensation Corporation covers the costs of treatment for cases deemed 'accidents', including medical misadventure, for all people legally in New Zealand (including tourists), with the costs recovered via levies on employers, employees and some other sources such as car registration.
The relatively extensive and high-quality system of public hospitals treats citizens or permanent residents free of charge and is managed by District Health Boards. However, costly or difficult operations often require long waiting list delays unless the treatment is medically urgent.[1] Because of this, a secondary market of health insurance schemes exists which fund operations and treatments for their members privately. Southern Cross Health Insurance, a non-profit-scheme, is the largest of these at about 60% of the health insurance market and covering almost a quarter of all New Zealanders in 2007, even operating its own chain of hospitals.[2]
Primary care (non-specialist doctors / family doctors) and medications on the list of the New Zealand government agency PHARMAC require co-payments, but are subsidised, especially for patients with community health services cards or high user health cards.
Emergency services are primarily provided by St. John New Zealand charity (as well as Wellington Free Ambulance in the Wellington Region), supported with a mix of private (donated) and public (subsidy) funds

So where is it more of a free market than what is currently in place in the US?

This doesn't look very free-markety:

Pharmaceutical Management Agency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Londoner]

You guys complain about low wages, yet you think those same people have an extra $50~$300 bucks a month to pay for Obama care? If they didn't have health insurance before?
That don't make no sense to me... please explain where are they going to get the money from?

Our hospitals, doctors, drug companies, medical device companies, and insurance companies have, through powerful lobbying groups, created a virtual monopoly which allows them to raise prices at 5x inflation. They have bankrupted middle class Americans. We are the only advanced industrial nation where average families are one accident away from being financially destroyed. This has destroyed the purchasing power of the consumer, who can no longer afford to pay monopoly prices.

ObamaCare is based on a Republican plan (created by a Republican think tank (Heritage), and promoted by Bob Dole, and enacted by Mitt Romney). The plan seeks to dramatically increase the coverage pool so as to lower premiums. However, the premiums only come down if you have a maximum number of participants. Right now, in places like Kentucky and California, where the exchanges are not being obstructed, you have massive participation and lower prices. However, Republicans are actively trying to destroy the exchanges in other states so they can prevent the cost curve from coming down and destroy ObamaCare before too many people get the benefits of lower premiums. Remember: once too many people get the benefits, the Republicans won't be able to take those benefits away without paying a political price.

The Republican job is to protect the current monopoly pricing structure (which generates the profits to fund their election bids. Do you know how much lobbying pressure the heath care industry puts on your party? How could you could start a thread like this without knowing, for instance, how much money Elly Lilly pours into the pockets of your politicians? Elly Lilly charges the worlds highest drug costs because your party awarded them monopoly pricing in the 2003 Drug Bill. Meaning: your party has an incentive to protect Elly Lilly's monopoly pricing from ObamaCare, which is going to take away their no-bid contract and force them compete, which means they will have less money to pour into the pockets of rightwing politicians).

Make no mistake. Your party has to obstruct as many exchanges as possible so that fewer people join and the costs don't come down (which would allow your party to say the exchanges don't work). They feed you false stories constantly so that you clog the message boards with propaganda. - like, for instance, take the recent story peddled by FOX about the father in NYS who said "children are not covered by ObamaCare". This was a lead story on FOX with fancy graphics and hours of coverage. Problem is: it was false. It was revealed that the father mistakenly didn't include one of his children in the sign-up phase - so the plans didn't come back with options for this child. FOX News and the entire rightwing propaganda system ran with the story without divulging this fact. They did what you are doing now. They cherry picked half truths, peddled distortions and simply made shit up when necessary. They need to protect the monopolies which fund their elections, think tanks and media assets.

Capitalism is the best system on earth when rational self interest drives innovation, competitive pricing and job growth. Capitalism becomes dangerous when it forms entrenched monopolies and takes over a political party who are then given financial incentives to protect those monopolies.

(You've been lied to. Your party isn't protecting the free market from government. It is protecting a government-awarded monopoly from the people)

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

New Zealand
Singapore
Hong Kong
All have the most Free Markets.

And New Zealand and Singapore have universal health care paid through taxation. Don't forget to mention that with your brilliant post.
(snicker)

No they don't.
New Zealand has a mixture of public and private as well as Singapore
Health care in New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore
Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore's system uses a combination of compulsory savings from payroll deductions to provide subsidies within a nationalized health insurance plan known as Medisave. Within Medisave, each citizen accumulates funds that are individually tracked, and such funds can be pooled within and across an entire extended family. The vast majority of Singapore citizens have substantial savings in this scheme. One of three levels of subsidy is chosen by the patient at the time of the healthcare episode.

A key principle of Singapore's national health scheme is that no medical service is provided free of charge, regardless of the level of subsidy, even within the public healthcare system. This mechanism is intended to reduce the overutilisation of healthcare services, a phenomenon often seen in fully subsidised universal health insurance systems

How about that - something fairly similar that the Republicans introduced.

That's Wikipedia, and open-source, free edited site.


For instance just going directly to New Zealand's source rather than Wikipedia, here's what is there:


Excellent healthcare
"""You and your family’s wellbeing will be in good hands with our excellent health system.

Getting seen by a doctor is usually easy (unless you live in a small town or somewhere particularly remote), and healthcare is quite affordable.

New Zealand residents* benefit from a public health system that is free or low cost thanks to heavy Government subsidies."""
Health Care in New Zealand - NZ Now



Here's a map showing that the U.S. is right down there with the entire continent of Africa and Asia for NOT providing universal health care. Aren't we proud?

Singapore:
Going directly to the source:

Healthcare Regulation

Healthcare Regulation | Ministry of Health

Singapore's healthcare regulatory framework consists mainly of 2 parties; the regulator (comprising Ministry Of Health along with its statutory boards) and the regulated (comprising public and private providers).


Healthcare institutions

All Healthcare facilities such as hospitals, medical centers, community health centers, nursing homes, clinics (including dental clinics), and clinical laboratories (including x-ray laboratories) are required to apply for licence under the Private Hospitals & Medical Clinics (PHMC) Act/Regulations. All Healthcare facilities are also required to maintain a good standard of medical / clinical services under PHMC Act/Regulations.

For more information on the licensing requirements, please visit our e-Licensing for Healthcare (eLIS) website. The eLIS is an online system for the healthcare institutions to apply for the PHMC licence. The website contains all information on the PHMC guidelines/ directives, and licensing terms and conditions, and important announcements that the Ministry disseminates to all healthcare institutions for compliance.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You guys complain about low wages, yet you think those same people have an extra $50~$300 bucks a month to pay for Obama care? If they didn't have health insurance before?
That don't make no sense to me... please explain where are they going to get the money from?

Who on minimum wage is going to have to pay $300/month for health insurance under Obamacare?

SO you agree to keep these people from having to pay anything, the min wage should stay where it is?

I support government funded basic healthcare for everyone regardless of their ability to pay.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You guys complain about low wages, yet you think those same people have an extra $50~$300 bucks a month to pay for Obama care? If they didn't have health insurance before?
That don't make no sense to me... please explain where are they going to get the money from?

Who on minimum wage is going to have to pay $300/month for health insurance under Obamacare?

SO you agree to keep these people from having to pay anything, the min wage should stay where it is?

The minimum wage should be tied to inflation.

 

[Interpol]

You guys complain about low wages, yet you think those same people have an extra $50~$300 bucks a month to pay for Obama care? If they didn't have health insurance before?
That don't make no sense to me... please explain where are they going to get the money from?

Kind of a stupid question.

Nobody thinks low wage workers have the money to buy healthcare, which is why the ACA helps to subsidize these people or put them into Medicaid, just like Romneycare did in Massachusetts.

Now everyone's got healthcare in Massachusetts and premiums have leveled off and people don't have to pay for direct healthcare expenses for the uninsured because they are all insured.

What the left wants is for ALL of us to NOT have to help Walmart and other mutli-billion dollar corporations to pay their employees. We waste billions of taxpayer dollars a year on Food Stamps and other social services for low wage workers who don't make enough to take care of their basic needs. So these employers actually funnel them into the government entitlement system so that we have to take care of their employees.

If that makes sense to you, than you really must be a pretty dumb Republican.

The left wants $15 an hour for workers, that way billions upon billions of taxpayer money would be saved, our deficits would shrink even further, tens of millions of workers would be able to afford their own insurance and food, AND, Walmart would still be making billions of dollars every year.

Problem solved.

 

[birddog]

I am sure of one thing. If Obama had kept his stupid controlling methods out of health care, we would be much better off. The republicans wanted to tweak and improve the system, and the democrat congress under the direction of The Kenyan screwed everything up!

What we would have got from the republicans would have not been nearly so radical, and would have been effective. Tort reform, savings accounts, decreasing waste and corruption, preexisting condition coverage at fair rates, etc etc.

For libs to say we are better off with Obamacare, I would say they need to vacate their ivory towers of intellectual dishonesty!

 

[NYcarbineer]

You guys complain about low wages, yet you think those same people have an extra $50~$300 bucks a month to pay for Obama care? If they didn't have health insurance before?
That don't make no sense to me... please explain where are they going to get the money from?

Who on minimum wage is going to have to pay $300/month for health insurance under Obamacare?

SO you agree to keep these people from having to pay anything, the min wage should stay where it is?

A family of four with one income at $15/hour, fulltime, still qualifies for Medicaid.

 

[Wyatt earp]

So

Who on minimum wage is going to have to pay $300/month for health insurance under Obamacare?

SO you agree to keep these people from having to pay anything, the min wage should stay where it is?

A family of four with one income at $15/hour, fulltime, still qualifies for Medicaid.

So this is now becoming more hilarious. So why didn't the lyer and chief just expand medicad? Since what I read it is like 8 to 1. And that.system can not survive

And this is The. United states of America not the Pea brain State of Massachusetts.

 

[Kosh]

Once again the far left has shown they only speak from talking points programmed by the DNC.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You guys complain about low wages, yet you think those same people have an extra $50~$300 bucks a month to pay for Obama care? If they didn't have health insurance before?
That don't make no sense to me... please explain where are they going to get the money from?

Kind of a stupid question.

Nobody thinks low wage workers have the money to buy healthcare, which is why the ACA helps to subsidize these people or put them into Medicaid, just like Romneycare did in Massachusetts.

Now everyone's got healthcare in Massachusetts and premiums have leveled off and people don't have to pay for direct healthcare expenses for the uninsured because they are all insured.

What the left wants is for ALL of us to NOT have to help Walmart and other mutli-billion dollar corporations to pay their employees. We waste billions of taxpayer dollars a year on Food Stamps and other social services for low wage workers who don't make enough to take care of their basic needs. So these employers actually funnel them into the government entitlement system so that we have to take care of their employees.

If that makes sense to you, than you really must be a pretty dumb Republican.

The left wants $15 an hour for workers, that way billions upon billions of taxpayer money would be saved, our deficits would shrink even further, tens of millions of workers would be able to afford their own insurance and food, AND, Walmart would still be making billions of dollars every year.

Problem solved.

.
The left wants $15 dollars for workers? Seriously you do know the only one who benifits off that idea is the I.R.S. and makes everyone $8 to $15 bucks an hour poor. Trickle up poverty.

 

[Wyatt earp]

So out of 111 posts no one can still explain to me how folks with no health insurance will buy health insurance? They can't even afford new tires on there car (they have to rent to own now) and seriously Obama thinks folks have the extra cash? All I know is I will be the last one standing to not get health insurance now...and I can afford it but heck no. I would rather vacation on a Alaska cruise this summer.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And New Zealand and Singapore have universal health care paid through taxation. Don't forget to mention that with your brilliant post.
(snicker)

No they don't.
New Zealand has a mixture of public and private as well as Singapore
Health care in New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore
Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore's system uses a combination of compulsory savings from payroll deductions to provide subsidies within a nationalized health insurance plan known as Medisave. Within Medisave, each citizen accumulates funds that are individually tracked, and such funds can be pooled within and across an entire extended family. The vast majority of Singapore citizens have substantial savings in this scheme. One of three levels of subsidy is chosen by the patient at the time of the healthcare episode.

A key principle of Singapore's national health scheme is that no medical service is provided free of charge, regardless of the level of subsidy, even within the public healthcare system. This mechanism is intended to reduce the overutilisation of healthcare services, a phenomenon often seen in fully subsidised universal health insurance systems

How about that - something fairly similar that the Republicans introduced.

That's Wikipedia, and open-source, free edited site.


For instance just going directly to New Zealand's source rather than Wikipedia, here's what is there:


Excellent healthcare
"""You and your family’s wellbeing will be in good hands with our excellent health system.

Getting seen by a doctor is usually easy (unless you live in a small town or somewhere particularly remote), and healthcare is quite affordable.

New Zealand residents* benefit from a public health system that is free or low cost thanks to heavy Government subsidies."""
Health Care in New Zealand - NZ Now



Here's a map showing that the U.S. is right down there with the entire continent of Africa and Asia for NOT providing universal health care. Aren't we proud?

Singapore:
Going directly to the source:

Healthcare Regulation

Healthcare Regulation | Ministry of Health

Singapore's healthcare regulatory framework consists mainly of 2 parties; the regulator (comprising Ministry Of Health along with its statutory boards) and the regulated (comprising public and private providers).


Healthcare institutions

All Healthcare facilities such as hospitals, medical centers, community health centers, nursing homes, clinics (including dental clinics), and clinical laboratories (including x-ray laboratories) are required to apply for licence under the Private Hospitals & Medical Clinics (PHMC) Act/Regulations. All Healthcare facilities are also required to maintain a good standard of medical / clinical services under PHMC Act/Regulations.

For more information on the licensing requirements, please visit our e-Licensing for Healthcare (eLIS) website. The eLIS is an online system for the healthcare institutions to apply for the PHMC licence. The website contains all information on the PHMC guidelines/ directives, and licensing terms and conditions, and important announcements that the Ministry disseminates to all healthcare institutions for compliance.

Interesting how you lefties love to talk about single payer. You never want to talk about the cost to taxpayers.
Ever wonder why a gallon of gas costs nine bucks in Europe?
Ever wonder why the average tax burden in Sweden is 70%...
I think we're better off getting more of what we earn and having the right to make choices for our selves.
If you want single payer, move to a country that has it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The poor who couldn't afford health insurance will receive Medicaid or a subsidy. Question answered, can we move on.

who is the poor

Anyone below an arbitrary line set by the administration.

that is neither true nor accurate.
Poverty Main - People and Households - U.S. Census Bureau
Stop making emotional, uninformed posts.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So

SO you agree to keep these people from having to pay anything, the min wage should stay where it is?

A family of four with one income at $15/hour, fulltime, still qualifies for Medicaid.

So this is now becoming more hilarious. So why didn't the lyer and chief just expand medicad? Since what I read it is like 8 to 1. And that.system can not survive

And this is The. United states of America not the Pea brain State of Massachusetts.

You claimed that someone on minimum wage is going to pay $300 a month for insurance because of Obamacare.

How about you prove that?

 

[Papageorgio]

What about the guys in the middle class like me? Who make 50 grand plus a year?
And I would rather enjoy my life and go to strip clubs, daytona beach and hawaii then rather spend $400 bucks a month on Health insurance? For some old person on life support?

Yeah, that's just fucking great...until you wrap your car around a lightpole driving back from the strip club. Then you expect us, the insured, to pay for your irresponsibility.

WHAT? I don't drink and drive I am 48 what do you think I am stupid and want a D.U.I? I would come home in a taxi.

Don't worry, some people are very ignorant and just like to make stupid blanket statements that are based because of extreme hate and prejudice.

 

[boedicca]

You guys complain about low wages, yet you think those same people have an extra $50~$300 bucks a month to pay for Obama care? If they didn't have health insurance before?
That don't make no sense to me... please explain where are they going to get the money from?

Your question exhibits your ignorance of the provisions of the Act, or is solely partisan and asked in bad faith.

Educate yourself as to the actual provisions of the Act, there are abundant resources online, focusing on the topics of expanded Medicaid and insurance subsidies.

Clearly you haven't educated yourself. If you had, you'd know that ObamaCare policies have huge deductibles and very small networks of providers. There is no out of pocket spending cap for using out of network providers, which makes ObamaCare VERY EXPENSIVE unless one is willing to settle for the NIH-type wait times of Medicaid.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Okay..which "market" doesn't have government control in this country?

Exactly!
That is the whole point.
Countries that have less regulations (Government Control) are doing very well.
Free Markets and Capitalism works. Government Controlled regulations stifle business growth.

In a free market, those who can afford to pay the market price can have the product or service. Those who can't go without.

Is that how you want healthcare to work?

IN a world of absolutes, that would be a legitimate question.
The fact is no one's life or health is tied to the purchase of health insurance.
This current administration has used scare tactics to convince the uninformed that they not only MUST have health insurance in order to survive, that having health insurance is a right.
Of course, neither are true.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What costs more, paying someone's entire medical bill or paying for their insurance that will pay their medical bill?

over time the insurance bill

Actually, over time all our costs will go down because we are no longer paying for health care in the most expensive way possible.

We, the insured, pay $25 for a single aspirin to pay for those without insurance. If they now have insurance, all the costs should go down.

Of course, because profit has been inserted where there should be none, that probably won't actually happen until we join the rest of the grown up nations and go to a single payer system.

That's a LIE..
That which hospitals charge for various items are no where near what they get paid. Nor would an uninsured or a cash patient pay anywhere near that.
In fact reimbursements to medical professionals and hospitals are much lower under Obamacare.
The other fact is many doctors and medical groups are opting out of the medicare/medicaid systems. They will do the same with Obamacare patients.
This is the reason why the ACA law in its original form had outlawed so called "Doctor's Hospitals". That part of the law was removed during negotiations.
answer these questions....What is your interest in Obamacare? Why do you want it so badly?