A Step Closer to Death Panels

[Soggy in NOLA]

Soon enough we'll all be shovel-ready.

 

[Greenbeard]

It is my opinion that all medicine should be accesable to the general public. Let the people decide.

What does this mean? You mean without a prescription? Or you mean insurers (public or private) should pay for absolutely any drug you want to take to treat any condition?

Or are you one of the people who thinks revoking approval means the FDA has somehow banned Avastin and taken it off the market?

 

[Revere]

The FDA de-listing Avastin for breast cancer is de facto banning it for that purpose, yes.

 

[Affrayer]

Everyone knows there were no death panels in that bill. That was all made. There is no mention of any death panelin the bill. Flawed as it is.

1) You and I have different definitions of what a "Death Panel" is. Mine involves a lack of choice by the patient. Which is what the republican governor of Arizona is offering.

2) Yes, by the time the republicans got done raping Obama's health care reform, it was indeed terribly flawed.

 

[Revere]

Government will not give you all the health care you want, no matter the party affiliation of the government. Deal with it.

 

[Greenbeard]

The FDA de-listing Avastin for breast cancer is de facto banning it for that purpose, yes.

...because it's based on multiple studies showing that not only is it useless for that purpose, it comes with very dangerous side effects. That's why the health sector would stop using it for this purpose, not some imaginary government ban.

Doctors can still prescribe it, insurers can still cover it for breast cancer. Will they? Well, if I were the chief medical officer for a large insurance company and you handed me a stack of research findings showing that a given drug is virtually useless for curing a given disease, I probably would remove it from the formulary and not approve reimbursement of it as a breast cancer drug. That doesn't mean the patient can't pay for it out of pocket.

While I appreciate the irony of some of you now coming to believe that health insurance is indeed a charity, that doesn't change the fact that health spending isn't going come down until we stop paying for procedures and drugs that don't do anything. Science is your friend, it can help distinguish between useless and useful. Payment policy based on hope and faith isn't going to lower your costs but payment policy based on science may yet.

 

[boedicca]

Do physicians get rich on Medicare?

From what I see, M-patients are what keep them alive, because there isn't enough private patients to pay all the bills. I had a Dr. caught in a M-patient sting, and it financially hurt him badly. And too, a lot of Dr.s give extra hours to hospitals so all bases are covered, and if they are financially hurting they need to be working in their regular practice instead.

There aren't enough private patients because the ratio of government subsdized health care has grown to the point where it is nearly half of all health care expenditures.

 

[Affrayer]

Government will not give you all the health care you want, no matter the party affiliation of the government.

True, but on the other hand, our current system can lead to horrible inequalities which is juxtaposed to our fundamental philosophy.

To put that another way: LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...would become a shame.

 

[boedicca]

bigrednck...do you think that every medical procedure should be available to any American if they want it? Are you against ANY limits being drawn?

Do you think that a 99 year old woman with kidney failure on dialysis should receive a kidney transplant?

If not, why not? If so, why?

Did Medicare tell her she could not get one, after paying into it for 70+ years?

I don't know who told her she couldn't get one. But do you think that she SHOULD get one?

(We are no longer talking medications...we are talking about human kidneys which are in limited supply)

Personally, if I were 99 years old I would just let go and not have a transplant.

But I don't think that decision should be forced on anyone by the government.

 

[Greenbeard]

Personally, if I were 99 years old I would just let go and not have a transplant.

But I don't think that decision should be forced on anyone by the government.

Who's going to pay for it? Aren't you one of those people who rails on and on about Medicare being bankrupt? If so, how do you reconcile that with your conviction that it should pay for everything imaginable?

 

[boedicca]

Do physicians get rich on Medicare?

Do physicians get rich?

Or are they reimbursed for their work?

Those who commit fraud get rich.

Those who care for patients make a living.

Indeed.

I am heartily sick and tired of seeing honest and decent people, doctors and business people, smeared as evil.

 

[boedicca]

Personally, if I were 99 years old I would just let go and not have a transplant.

But I don't think that decision should be forced on anyone by the government.

Who's going to pay for it? Aren't you one of those people who rails on and on about Medicare being bankrupt? If so, how do you reconcile that with your conviction that it should pay for everything imaginable?

Perhaps if the government didn't confiscate so much of people's income and wealth during their lifetimes, they could pay for their own care.

I'd rather have the government out of the health care insurance and retirement insurance business altogether. The only thing the government's involvement really accomplishes is to distort the price structure. It happened to housing. It happened to higher education. It's happening in health care and getting worse.

Free markets are not perfect; any system has flaws. But the flaws of the market are far less in sum than the Epic Fail of Centralized Planning & Control.

 

[RDD_1210]

I want to know asshole what value do you place on human life?

It's priceless. You in favor for healthcare for everyone regardless of the cost?

It's priceless the way to take the side of hitler. So how many SS do you have?

Wait...what??

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It's priceless. You in favor for healthcare for everyone regardless of the cost?

It's priceless the way to take the side of hitler. So how many SS do you have?

Wait...what??

Did I mis-spell anything?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It is my opinion that all medicine should be accesable to the general public. Let the people decide.

What does this mean? You mean without a prescription? Or you mean insurers (public or private) should pay for absolutely any drug you want to take to treat any condition?

Or are you one of the people who thinks revoking approval means the FDA has somehow banned Avastin and taken it off the market?

What does this mean? You mean without a prescription?

Think junior we are discussing healthcare doctors and medicine. What do you think we are talking about?

Or you mean insurers (public or private) should pay for absolutely any drug you want to take to treat any condition?

Is the value of life differant if you have private coverage compared to public?

Or are you one of the people who thinks revoking approval means the FDA has somehow banned Avastin and taken it off the market

You aren't allowed to have it in England which after all isn't that the goal of obama to have healthcare coverage like the countries in Eroupe?
Why can't we have this drug? Anger as cancer medication that saves thousands remains banned in UK


Read more: Avastin cancer drug banned by NHS | Mail Online

But if obamacare is allowed to stay yes it will be taken off the market for good unless you go to the black market.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Personally, if I were 99 years old I would just let go and not have a transplant.

But I don't think that decision should be forced on anyone by the government.

Who's going to pay for it? Aren't you one of those people who rails on and on about Medicare being bankrupt? If so, how do you reconcile that with your conviction that it should pay for everything imaginable?

Who's paying for it now?

 

[GWV5903]

The government needs for seniors especially, to die off, sooner than later. We will be hearing about new ways to accomplish that, in the future. My 69 year old aunt, is not looking forward to them. I think the drug you are talking about here is the one Canadians come to our country for treatment? Canada won't pay for it? Correct me if I am wrong, please.

Umm later in the case of this drug seems to be only a few months later for an extreme amount of money. It does not seem to cure anything, is only used on terminal patients, and it is even questionable if it extends life even by three months and at what quality level?

You missed the part where my 73 year old assistant has been on it for 9+ months, tumors are gone and the ones that remain are 5% of their original size....

 

[Gadawg73]

Government will not give you all the health care you want, no matter the party affiliation of the government. Deal with it.

Funny, you advocate "all the health care they want" for seniors paid for by government all the time.
You claim they paid for it. We all pay taxes.

 

[GWV5903]

Government does not give give you all the health care you want, and it does a shitty job of redistributing any resources equally.

We're to compare this system where everyone is equally miserable?

Fuck that.

Actually the administrative costs of medicare is pretty efficient.And yes the rich will always get ptreferrential treatment, but we should not as a country actively support that.
I have no desire to put more money in the already rich's pockets.
I try not to be a tool of the mega corps.

Efficient at what? Getting ripped off? To be labled as effcient means you would have to do something productive.......

Here is one of the many cases of Medicare Fraud from the NY Times 10/13/10:

An Armenian-American crime syndicate stole the identities of doctors and thousands of patients and used them and more than a hundred spurious clinics in 25 states to bill Medicare for more than $100 million for treatments no doctor ever performed and no patient ever received, the federal authorities announced on Wednesday.

Prosecutors said the case represented the largest Medicare fraud operation ever carried out by a single group that resulted in criminal charges. The group succeeded in stealing $35 million in Medicare reimbursements, officials said, before the charges were leveled and arrests were made on Wednesday.

Yeah that administrative group down at Medicare there right on top of it......

 

[Revere]

Government will not give you all the health care you want, no matter the party affiliation of the government. Deal with it.

Funny, you advocate "all the health care they want" for seniors paid for by government all the time.
You claim they paid for it. We all pay taxes.

Government has already made many promises it cannot keep, for fractions of the population like seniors and the poor.

What is government's promise of universal health care worth?