A Tale Of Two Autos....

[francoHFW]

Listen, ya STUPID Pub dupe jackazzes- the loss on each car used to be 278K per car, now down to 49k, IF you're a stupid A-HOLE- LOL! Why is it coming down, because R+D is included, and per car it obviously goes down as sales continue. That R+D as mentioned is used throughout the whole company, so even THAT is stupid BS.
The dupes aren't buying them because they're brainwashed twits, they're just now starting to realize it's NOT an electric that needs to be charged every 80 miles. The fire OUTRAGE was also BS, has never happened outside the lab. As usual, your heroes are lying nonstop. Un-American BS.

Yeah bankruptcy was a great idea- other companies would just buy them up. Now tell me who had any MONEY TO BUY THEM WITH IN 2009, SHYTTEHEADS- Pubs would have destroyed 2/3 of our auto industry and had another Pub World DEPRESSION. Jeebus what STUPID douchebags...LOL Rush/Beck/Svage/Sean/Pubbots!!

 

[Liberal]

Haha, the "evil" Volt!

The Volt was in planning/proto since about 2006, and was the base for Voltec drive system that GM was bent on using for all of their future electric vehicles...

Yeah, that was really Obama's policy shining though, long before he was ever POTUS.

I cannot begin to tell you how pleased I am that you chose the avi-title that you did!!

Your inane blather is more indicative of the mindless dolts that support Obama than I could ever post!

Keep up the good work!

You wrote this airy piece trying to link Obama policies to a "failed" car platform that was invented and touted by GM long before Obama was the POTUS. Sounds like world-class fail to me, copy/paster.

 

[Bfgrn]

PC, you always like to crow about American exceptionalism. In reality, you are as anti-American as it gets. You folks on the right like to crow about the 'risk takers' Well PC meet a risk taker...General Motors.

And if you believe for a moment the governments of Japan, Korea and China don't pick winners and losers, you are naive. Those governments always pick their home manufacturers, and use strategies like huge subsidies to help their manufacturers capture markets and try to put American companies out of business. Japan's universal health care lowers the manufacturing costs of their car makers to around $200 per vehicle. American manufactures spend $1500 per vehicle on health care costs.

From your article...

Still, as the company wrestles with how to drive down costs and increase showroom traffic, Parks said the Volt is an important car for GM in other respects.

"It wasn't conceived as a way to make tons of money," he said. "It was a big dip in the technology pool for GM. We've learned a boatload of stuff that we're deploying on other models," Parks said. Those include the Cruze and such future cars as the 2014 Cadillac ELR hybrid.

The same risky strategy — gambling on relatively untested technology — drove massive investments by Toyota Motor Corp in the Prius hybrid and Nissan Motor Co in the Leaf electric car.

Toyota said it now makes a profit on the Prius, which was introduced in the United States in 2000 and is now in its third generation. Sales of the Prius hybrid, which comes in four different versions priced as low as $19,745, have almost doubled so far this year to 164,408.

Other such vehicles haven't done nearly as well. Nissan's pure-electric Leaf, which debuted at the same time as the Volt and retails for $36,050, has sold just 4,228 this year, while the Honda Insight, which has the lowest starting price of any hybrid in the U.S. at $19,290, has sales this year of only 4,801. The Mitsubishi i, an even smaller electric car priced from $29,975, is in even worse shape, with only 403 sales.

Toyota's unveiling of the original Prius caught U.S. automakers off guard. GM, then under the leadership of Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz, decided it needed a "leapfrog" product to tackle Toyota and unveiled the Volt concept to considerable fanfare at the 2007 Detroit auto show.

The car entered production in the fall of 2010 as the first U.S. gasoline-electric hybrid that could be recharged by plugging the car into any electrical outlet. The Obama administration, which engineered a $50-billion taxpayer rescue of GM from bankruptcy in 2009 and has provided more than $5 billion in subsidies for green-car development, praised the Volt as an example of the country's commitment to building more fuel-efficient cars.

NEXT-GENERATION CAR

GM's investment in the Volt has so far been a fraction of the $5 billion that Nissan said it is spending to develop and tool global production of the Leaf and its associated technologies and the reported $10 billion or more that Toyota has plowed into the Prius and various derivatives over the past decade.

1. "A basic tenet of American capitalism is that supply precedes demand, as can be see in the case of all airports being closed down: the long lines of people unable to get to their destinations is the demand that cannot be fulfilled. This is why entrepreneurs must be given a free hand to produce, to speculate, as the building of more and more airports will lower prices, increasing demand. This is especially true in the case of new technologies.

Both high taxation and over regulation place a damper on this freedom.
“The proceeds from these speculations? the capital paid for stocks and bonds ? may seem misspent. In the long run, the results are called infrastructure, and they are what economies are built on.”

“Many European postal systems, telegraph lines and railroads were built with government money, and sometimes with insufficient capacity. But in the United States, instead of burdening taxpayers, we sell investors the equivalent of high-priced lottery tickets each time one of these technologies arrives.”
In Technology, Supply Precedes Demand - NYTimes.com


2. "The fundamentals of economic prosperity: the rule of law, property rights, freedom of contract, low marginal tax rates, the minimum regulatory barriers and costs necessary, sound money, and a stable dollar. Needless to say, “too big to fail” is a policy of failure.
Peter Ferrara, “America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb,” P. 240.



If I may broaden the topic.....the abject stupidity of the 'big government' crowd, raise your paw, BoringFriendlessGuy, is highlighted in this thread.

This is only superficially about cars....it is about the function of government.



The same problem is seen in taxation and for the same reasons:

a. conservatives see taxes as necessary to pay for legitimate government functions....as outlined in Article I, section 8, enumerated powers.

Any extra is given back in tax cuts.

b. Liberals, progressives, Democrats, socialists....see the purpose of taxation as a method of redistribution for purposes of material equality.



Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

WOW, Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

You just abdicated PC. You have just admitted to me and everyone on this board what I have been saying all along.

Conservatives.......
When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No PC, this is about a lot more than just cars. It is about people. We, the People. It is about saving something that can never be replaced. It is about human CAPITAL. It is about saving jobs, not only at GM, but at thousands of suppliers and sub contractors. It is about saving an industry that is part of that American exceptionalism you crow about. It is symbol and substance of our identity and our pride as a nation. You right wingers will never understand that. You folks on the right are not for less government. You have proven that every time you gain power. You absolutely LOVE government when it can wreak havoc on people's lives, when it bombs, invades, kills, maims, shuts down, arrests, incarcerates, and executes.

And you choose to deem Constitutional arguments that have gone on between philosophers, scholars, politicians, economists and polemics since the founding of our country as settled.

Conservatism is the scourge of the earth. And you are a very embodiment of that scourge.

 

[Gadawg73]

PC, you always like to crow about American exceptionalism. In reality, you are as anti-American as it gets. You folks on the right like to crow about the 'risk takers' Well PC meet a risk taker...General Motors.

And if you believe for a moment the governments of Japan, Korea and China don't pick winners and losers, you are naive. Those governments always pick their home manufacturers, and use strategies like huge subsidies to help their manufacturers capture markets and try to put American companies out of business. Japan's universal health care lowers the manufacturing costs of their car makers to around $200 per vehicle. American manufactures spend $1500 per vehicle on health care costs.

From your article...

Still, as the company wrestles with how to drive down costs and increase showroom traffic, Parks said the Volt is an important car for GM in other respects.

"It wasn't conceived as a way to make tons of money," he said. "It was a big dip in the technology pool for GM. We've learned a boatload of stuff that we're deploying on other models," Parks said. Those include the Cruze and such future cars as the 2014 Cadillac ELR hybrid.

The same risky strategy — gambling on relatively untested technology — drove massive investments by Toyota Motor Corp in the Prius hybrid and Nissan Motor Co in the Leaf electric car.

Toyota said it now makes a profit on the Prius, which was introduced in the United States in 2000 and is now in its third generation. Sales of the Prius hybrid, which comes in four different versions priced as low as $19,745, have almost doubled so far this year to 164,408.

Other such vehicles haven't done nearly as well. Nissan's pure-electric Leaf, which debuted at the same time as the Volt and retails for $36,050, has sold just 4,228 this year, while the Honda Insight, which has the lowest starting price of any hybrid in the U.S. at $19,290, has sales this year of only 4,801. The Mitsubishi i, an even smaller electric car priced from $29,975, is in even worse shape, with only 403 sales.

Toyota's unveiling of the original Prius caught U.S. automakers off guard. GM, then under the leadership of Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz, decided it needed a "leapfrog" product to tackle Toyota and unveiled the Volt concept to considerable fanfare at the 2007 Detroit auto show.

The car entered production in the fall of 2010 as the first U.S. gasoline-electric hybrid that could be recharged by plugging the car into any electrical outlet. The Obama administration, which engineered a $50-billion taxpayer rescue of GM from bankruptcy in 2009 and has provided more than $5 billion in subsidies for green-car development, praised the Volt as an example of the country's commitment to building more fuel-efficient cars.

NEXT-GENERATION CAR

GM's investment in the Volt has so far been a fraction of the $5 billion that Nissan said it is spending to develop and tool global production of the Leaf and its associated technologies and the reported $10 billion or more that Toyota has plowed into the Prius and various derivatives over the past decade.

1. "A basic tenet of American capitalism is that supply precedes demand, as can be see in the case of all airports being closed down: the long lines of people unable to get to their destinations is the demand that cannot be fulfilled. This is why entrepreneurs must be given a free hand to produce, to speculate, as the building of more and more airports will lower prices, increasing demand. This is especially true in the case of new technologies.

Both high taxation and over regulation place a damper on this freedom.
“The proceeds from these speculations? the capital paid for stocks and bonds ? may seem misspent. In the long run, the results are called infrastructure, and they are what economies are built on.”

“Many European postal systems, telegraph lines and railroads were built with government money, and sometimes with insufficient capacity. But in the United States, instead of burdening taxpayers, we sell investors the equivalent of high-priced lottery tickets each time one of these technologies arrives.”
In Technology, Supply Precedes Demand - NYTimes.com


2. "The fundamentals of economic prosperity: the rule of law, property rights, freedom of contract, low marginal tax rates, the minimum regulatory barriers and costs necessary, sound money, and a stable dollar. Needless to say, “too big to fail” is a policy of failure.
Peter Ferrara, “America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb,” P. 240.



If I may broaden the topic.....the abject stupidity of the 'big government' crowd, raise your paw, BoringFriendlessGuy, is highlighted in this thread.

This is only superficially about cars....it is about the function of government.



The same problem is seen in taxation and for the same reasons:

a. conservatives see taxes as necessary to pay for legitimate government functions....as outlined in Article I, section 8, enumerated powers.

Any extra is given back in tax cuts.

b. Liberals, progressives, Democrats, socialists....see the purpose of taxation as a method of redistribution for purposes of material equality.



Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

WOW, Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

You just abdicated PC. You have just admitted to me and everyone on this board what I have been saying all along.

Conservatives.......
When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No PC, this is about a lot more than just cars. It is about people. We, the People. It is about saving something that can never be replaced. It is about human CAPITAL. It is about saving jobs, not only at GM, but at thousands of suppliers and sub contractors. It is about saving an industry that is part of that American exceptionalism you crow about. It is symbol and substance of our identity and our pride as a nation. You right wingers will never understand that. You folks on the right are not for less government. You have proven that every time you gain power. You absolutely LOVE government when it can wreak havoc on people's lives, when it bombs, invades, kills, maims, shuts down, arrests, incarcerates, and executes.

And you choose to deem Constitutional arguments that have gone on between philosophers, scholars, politicians, economists and polemics since the founding of our country as settled.

Conservatism is the scourge of the earth. And you are a very embodiment of that scourge.

Not me Moe. Must be someone else you are ranting about.

 

[francoHFW]

Pure Pubcrappe from some fool at Reuters...

Listen, ya STUPID Pub dupe jackazzes- the loss on each car used to be 278K per car, now down to 49k, IF you're a stupid A-HOLE- LOL! Why is it coming down, because R+D is included, and per car it obviously goes down as sales continue. That R+D as mentioned is used throughout the whole company, so even THAT is stupid BS.
The dupes aren't buying them because they're brainwashed twits, they're just now starting to realize it's NOT an electric that needs to be charged every 80 miles. The fire OUTRAGE was also BS, has never happened outside the lab. As usual, your heroes are lying nonstop. Un-American BS.

Yeah bankruptcy was a great idea- other companies would just buy them up. Now tell me who had any MONEY TO BUY THEM WITH IN 2009, SHYTTEHEADS- Pubs would have destroyed 2/3 of our auto industry and had another Pub World DEPRESSION. Jeebus what STUPID douchebags...LOL Rush/Beck/Svage/Sean/Pubbots!!

End of story, chumps.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, you always like to crow about American exceptionalism. In reality, you are as anti-American as it gets. You folks on the right like to crow about the 'risk takers' Well PC meet a risk taker...General Motors.

And if you believe for a moment the governments of Japan, Korea and China don't pick winners and losers, you are naive. Those governments always pick their home manufacturers, and use strategies like huge subsidies to help their manufacturers capture markets and try to put American companies out of business. Japan's universal health care lowers the manufacturing costs of their car makers to around $200 per vehicle. American manufactures spend $1500 per vehicle on health care costs.

From your article...

Still, as the company wrestles with how to drive down costs and increase showroom traffic, Parks said the Volt is an important car for GM in other respects.

"It wasn't conceived as a way to make tons of money," he said. "It was a big dip in the technology pool for GM. We've learned a boatload of stuff that we're deploying on other models," Parks said. Those include the Cruze and such future cars as the 2014 Cadillac ELR hybrid.

The same risky strategy — gambling on relatively untested technology — drove massive investments by Toyota Motor Corp in the Prius hybrid and Nissan Motor Co in the Leaf electric car.

Toyota said it now makes a profit on the Prius, which was introduced in the United States in 2000 and is now in its third generation. Sales of the Prius hybrid, which comes in four different versions priced as low as $19,745, have almost doubled so far this year to 164,408.

Other such vehicles haven't done nearly as well. Nissan's pure-electric Leaf, which debuted at the same time as the Volt and retails for $36,050, has sold just 4,228 this year, while the Honda Insight, which has the lowest starting price of any hybrid in the U.S. at $19,290, has sales this year of only 4,801. The Mitsubishi i, an even smaller electric car priced from $29,975, is in even worse shape, with only 403 sales.

Toyota's unveiling of the original Prius caught U.S. automakers off guard. GM, then under the leadership of Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz, decided it needed a "leapfrog" product to tackle Toyota and unveiled the Volt concept to considerable fanfare at the 2007 Detroit auto show.

The car entered production in the fall of 2010 as the first U.S. gasoline-electric hybrid that could be recharged by plugging the car into any electrical outlet. The Obama administration, which engineered a $50-billion taxpayer rescue of GM from bankruptcy in 2009 and has provided more than $5 billion in subsidies for green-car development, praised the Volt as an example of the country's commitment to building more fuel-efficient cars.

NEXT-GENERATION CAR

GM's investment in the Volt has so far been a fraction of the $5 billion that Nissan said it is spending to develop and tool global production of the Leaf and its associated technologies and the reported $10 billion or more that Toyota has plowed into the Prius and various derivatives over the past decade.

1. "A basic tenet of American capitalism is that supply precedes demand, as can be see in the case of all airports being closed down: the long lines of people unable to get to their destinations is the demand that cannot be fulfilled. This is why entrepreneurs must be given a free hand to produce, to speculate, as the building of more and more airports will lower prices, increasing demand. This is especially true in the case of new technologies.

Both high taxation and over regulation place a damper on this freedom.
“The proceeds from these speculations? the capital paid for stocks and bonds ? may seem misspent. In the long run, the results are called infrastructure, and they are what economies are built on.”

“Many European postal systems, telegraph lines and railroads were built with government money, and sometimes with insufficient capacity. But in the United States, instead of burdening taxpayers, we sell investors the equivalent of high-priced lottery tickets each time one of these technologies arrives.”
In Technology, Supply Precedes Demand - NYTimes.com


2. "The fundamentals of economic prosperity: the rule of law, property rights, freedom of contract, low marginal tax rates, the minimum regulatory barriers and costs necessary, sound money, and a stable dollar. Needless to say, “too big to fail” is a policy of failure.
Peter Ferrara, “America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb,” P. 240.



If I may broaden the topic.....the abject stupidity of the 'big government' crowd, raise your paw, BoringFriendlessGuy, is highlighted in this thread.

This is only superficially about cars....it is about the function of government.



The same problem is seen in taxation and for the same reasons:

a. conservatives see taxes as necessary to pay for legitimate government functions....as outlined in Article I, section 8, enumerated powers.

Any extra is given back in tax cuts.

b. Liberals, progressives, Democrats, socialists....see the purpose of taxation as a method of redistribution for purposes of material equality.



Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

WOW, Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

You just abdicated PC. You have just admitted to me and everyone on this board what I have been saying all along.

Conservatives.......
When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No PC, this is about a lot more than just cars. It is about people. We, the People. It is about saving something that can never be replaced. It is about human CAPITAL. It is about saving jobs, not only at GM, but at thousands of suppliers and sub contractors. It is about saving an industry that is part of that American exceptionalism you crow about. It is symbol and substance of our identity and our pride as a nation. You right wingers will never understand that. You folks on the right are not for less government. You have proven that every time you gain power. You absolutely LOVE government when it can wreak havoc on people's lives, when it bombs, invades, kills, maims, shuts down, arrests, incarcerates, and executes.

And you choose to deem Constitutional arguments that have gone on between philosophers, scholars, politicians, economists and polemics since the founding of our country as settled.

Conservatism is the scourge of the earth. And you are a very embodiment of that scourge.

Why is it that educating you has to fall on my shoulders?????



1.The Declaration of Independence memorializes the proposition that all men are created equal. At the time, the ambiguity of the phrase allowed even slave holders to find it informing.

2. But, clearly, the document was understood at the time not to promise equality of condition- even to white male Americans! Equality, as an abstract, was modified by the American idea of reward according to achievement, and a reverence for private property.




3. But the concept has been modified with the growth of modern liberalism, and the ‘egalitarian’ impulse that fuels it. Here we witness the constant expansion into areas in which equality of sorts is seen as desirable and/or mandatory. The intuitive de Tocqueville actually remarked that Americans loved equality more than freedom!

a. The principle of equality prepared men for a government that “covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, guided…Such a power stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd….The evils that extreme equality may produce are slowly disclosed; they creep gradually into the social frame; they are seen only at intervals; and at the moment at which they become most violent, habit already causes them to be no longer felt.”
Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” volume 2.




4. Under the new definition, an exact similarity of material wealth or income should be the goal of ‘social justice.’

5. By the 20th century, the new ‘equality’ became a threat to freedom. FDR’s New Deal and Truman’s Fair Deal claimed the rectification of inequalities as within the purview of government. LBJ’s Great Society championed the redistribution of wealth and status in the name of equality. Realize that the concomitant movement toward collectivism meant a decline in the freedoms of business, private associations, families, and individuals.


So...among the most dim-witted (raise your paw, BoringFriendlessGuy!) the term equality no longer means 'before the law,' but some sort of material equality.

That's what it means to you....isn't it, Boring?


So...
Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.


If the rule is broken, and the producers are penalized....property and wealth are confiscated by fiat or by taxation....

....the result is the Obama economy.

Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.


Is the concept that the 'equality' in question is the absurd notion of material equality...is that too nuanced for you?

 

[Bfgrn]

Ask the preferred first line creditors if they believe the rule of law should have prevailed instead of the rule of Obama pimping to the unions.
Bankruptcy would have REORGANIZED Chrysler and GM and allowed them to dump some of the absurd Cadillac retired entitlements they are burdened with AND negotiate with each and every creditor.
And kept government AND the taxpayer out of the loop which should have happened FIRST and in most cases always.
Do not have a problem with the losses on the Volt. Many companies lose big time $$ on innovation for many years. I lost $$ the first few years of each of the 3 corporations I own now.
It is called RISK and reward.
Additionally, how else does one road test new technology without getting it on the road and not the test track?

Those are human beings you want to DUMP. Those retirements were SIGNED agreements.

You 'claim' to be a businessman. I sold construction equipment to thousands of businesses from large corporations to mom and pop backhoe services. And there is one constant I have seen in my 20+ years of dealing with businesses. The successful businesses value their employees and the failing businesses view them as property. And the real lesson is never apparent to these businessmen who fail...

A business that doesn't value employees will ultimately not value their customers.

 

[Full-Auto]

1. "A basic tenet of American capitalism is that supply precedes demand, as can be see in the case of all airports being closed down: the long lines of people unable to get to their destinations is the demand that cannot be fulfilled. This is why entrepreneurs must be given a free hand to produce, to speculate, as the building of more and more airports will lower prices, increasing demand. This is especially true in the case of new technologies.

Both high taxation and over regulation place a damper on this freedom.
“The proceeds from these speculations? the capital paid for stocks and bonds ? may seem misspent. In the long run, the results are called infrastructure, and they are what economies are built on.”

“Many European postal systems, telegraph lines and railroads were built with government money, and sometimes with insufficient capacity. But in the United States, instead of burdening taxpayers, we sell investors the equivalent of high-priced lottery tickets each time one of these technologies arrives.”
In Technology, Supply Precedes Demand - NYTimes.com


2. "The fundamentals of economic prosperity: the rule of law, property rights, freedom of contract, low marginal tax rates, the minimum regulatory barriers and costs necessary, sound money, and a stable dollar. Needless to say, “too big to fail” is a policy of failure.
Peter Ferrara, “America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb,” P. 240.



If I may broaden the topic.....the abject stupidity of the 'big government' crowd, raise your paw, BoringFriendlessGuy, is highlighted in this thread.

This is only superficially about cars....it is about the function of government.



The same problem is seen in taxation and for the same reasons:

a. conservatives see taxes as necessary to pay for legitimate government functions....as outlined in Article I, section 8, enumerated powers.

Any extra is given back in tax cuts.

b. Liberals, progressives, Democrats, socialists....see the purpose of taxation as a method of redistribution for purposes of material equality.



Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

WOW, Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

You just abdicated PC. You have just admitted to me and everyone on this board what I have been saying all along.

Conservatives.......
When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No PC, this is about a lot more than just cars. It is about people. We, the People. It is about saving something that can never be replaced. It is about human CAPITAL. It is about saving jobs, not only at GM, but at thousands of suppliers and sub contractors. It is about saving an industry that is part of that American exceptionalism you crow about. It is symbol and substance of our identity and our pride as a nation. You right wingers will never understand that. You folks on the right are not for less government. You have proven that every time you gain power. You absolutely LOVE government when it can wreak havoc on people's lives, when it bombs, invades, kills, maims, shuts down, arrests, incarcerates, and executes.

And you choose to deem Constitutional arguments that have gone on between philosophers, scholars, politicians, economists and polemics since the founding of our country as settled.

Conservatism is the scourge of the earth. And you are a very embodiment of that scourge.

Why is it that educating you has to fall on my shoulders?????



1.The Declaration of Independence memorializes the proposition that all men are created equal. At the time, the ambiguity of the phrase allowed even slave holders to find it informing.

2. But, clearly, the document was understood at the time not to promise equality of condition- even to white male Americans! Equality, as an abstract, was modified by the American idea of reward according to achievement, and a reverence for private property.




3. But the concept has been modified with the growth of modern liberalism, and the ‘egalitarian’ impulse that fuels it. Here we witness the constant expansion into areas in which equality of sorts is seen as desirable and/or mandatory. The intuitive de Tocqueville actually remarked that Americans loved equality more than freedom!

a. The principle of equality prepared men for a government that “covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, guided…Such a power stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd….The evils that extreme equality may produce are slowly disclosed; they creep gradually into the social frame; they are seen only at intervals; and at the moment at which they become most violent, habit already causes them to be no longer felt.”
Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” volume 2.




4. Under the new definition, an exact similarity of material wealth or income should be the goal of ‘social justice.’

5. By the 20th century, the new ‘equality’ became a threat to freedom. FDR’s New Deal and Truman’s Fair Deal claimed the rectification of inequalities as within the purview of government. LBJ’s Great Society championed the redistribution of wealth and status in the name of equality. Realize that the concomitant movement toward collectivism meant a decline in the freedoms of business, private associations, families, and individuals.


So...among the most dim-witted (raise your paw, BoringFriendlessGuy!) the term equality no longer means 'before the law,' but some sort of material equality.

That's what it means to you....isn't it, Boring?


So...
Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.


If the rule is broken, and the producers are penalized....property and wealth are confiscated by fiat or by taxation....

....the result is the Obama economy.

Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.


Is the concept that the 'equality' in question is the absurd notion of material equality...is that too nuanced for you?

Girl you are good!!!!

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, you always like to crow about American exceptionalism. In reality, you are as anti-American as it gets. You folks on the right like to crow about the 'risk takers' Well PC meet a risk taker...General Motors.

And if you believe for a moment the governments of Japan, Korea and China don't pick winners and losers, you are naive. Those governments always pick their home manufacturers, and use strategies like huge subsidies to help their manufacturers capture markets and try to put American companies out of business. Japan's universal health care lowers the manufacturing costs of their car makers to around $200 per vehicle. American manufactures spend $1500 per vehicle on health care costs.

From your article...

Still, as the company wrestles with how to drive down costs and increase showroom traffic, Parks said the Volt is an important car for GM in other respects.

"It wasn't conceived as a way to make tons of money," he said. "It was a big dip in the technology pool for GM. We've learned a boatload of stuff that we're deploying on other models," Parks said. Those include the Cruze and such future cars as the 2014 Cadillac ELR hybrid.

The same risky strategy — gambling on relatively untested technology — drove massive investments by Toyota Motor Corp in the Prius hybrid and Nissan Motor Co in the Leaf electric car.

Toyota said it now makes a profit on the Prius, which was introduced in the United States in 2000 and is now in its third generation. Sales of the Prius hybrid, which comes in four different versions priced as low as $19,745, have almost doubled so far this year to 164,408.

Other such vehicles haven't done nearly as well. Nissan's pure-electric Leaf, which debuted at the same time as the Volt and retails for $36,050, has sold just 4,228 this year, while the Honda Insight, which has the lowest starting price of any hybrid in the U.S. at $19,290, has sales this year of only 4,801. The Mitsubishi i, an even smaller electric car priced from $29,975, is in even worse shape, with only 403 sales.

Toyota's unveiling of the original Prius caught U.S. automakers off guard. GM, then under the leadership of Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz, decided it needed a "leapfrog" product to tackle Toyota and unveiled the Volt concept to considerable fanfare at the 2007 Detroit auto show.

The car entered production in the fall of 2010 as the first U.S. gasoline-electric hybrid that could be recharged by plugging the car into any electrical outlet. The Obama administration, which engineered a $50-billion taxpayer rescue of GM from bankruptcy in 2009 and has provided more than $5 billion in subsidies for green-car development, praised the Volt as an example of the country's commitment to building more fuel-efficient cars.

NEXT-GENERATION CAR

GM's investment in the Volt has so far been a fraction of the $5 billion that Nissan said it is spending to develop and tool global production of the Leaf and its associated technologies and the reported $10 billion or more that Toyota has plowed into the Prius and various derivatives over the past decade.

1. "A basic tenet of American capitalism is that supply precedes demand, as can be see in the case of all airports being closed down: the long lines of people unable to get to their destinations is the demand that cannot be fulfilled. This is why entrepreneurs must be given a free hand to produce, to speculate, as the building of more and more airports will lower prices, increasing demand. This is especially true in the case of new technologies.

Both high taxation and over regulation place a damper on this freedom.
“The proceeds from these speculations? the capital paid for stocks and bonds ? may seem misspent. In the long run, the results are called infrastructure, and they are what economies are built on.”

“Many European postal systems, telegraph lines and railroads were built with government money, and sometimes with insufficient capacity. But in the United States, instead of burdening taxpayers, we sell investors the equivalent of high-priced lottery tickets each time one of these technologies arrives.”
In Technology, Supply Precedes Demand - NYTimes.com


2. "The fundamentals of economic prosperity: the rule of law, property rights, freedom of contract, low marginal tax rates, the minimum regulatory barriers and costs necessary, sound money, and a stable dollar. Needless to say, “too big to fail” is a policy of failure.
Peter Ferrara, “America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb,” P. 240.



If I may broaden the topic.....the abject stupidity of the 'big government' crowd, raise your paw, BoringFriendlessGuy, is highlighted in this thread.

This is only superficially about cars....it is about the function of government.



The same problem is seen in taxation and for the same reasons:

a. conservatives see taxes as necessary to pay for legitimate government functions....as outlined in Article I, section 8, enumerated powers.

Any extra is given back in tax cuts.

b. Liberals, progressives, Democrats, socialists....see the purpose of taxation as a method of redistribution for purposes of material equality.



Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

WOW, Rule #1: a nation can have prosperity or equality....not both.

You just abdicated PC. You have just admitted to me and everyone on this board what I have been saying all along.

Conservatives.......
When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No PC, this is about a lot more than just cars. It is about people. We, the People. It is about saving something that can never be replaced. It is about human CAPITAL. It is about saving jobs, not only at GM, but at thousands of suppliers and sub contractors. It is about saving an industry that is part of that American exceptionalism you crow about. It is symbol and substance of our identity and our pride as a nation. You right wingers will never understand that. You folks on the right are not for less government. You have proven that every time you gain power. You absolutely LOVE government when it can wreak havoc on people's lives, when it bombs, invades, kills, maims, shuts down, arrests, incarcerates, and executes.

And you choose to deem Constitutional arguments that have gone on between philosophers, scholars, politicians, economists and polemics since the founding of our country as settled.

Conservatism is the scourge of the earth. And you are a very embodiment of that scourge.

"And you are a very embodiment of that scourge."

Do you know the meaning of 'scourge'?

Well...I kinda am....

....based on the beatings I give you.

 

[francoHFW]

All this Pub "equality" Pubcrappe is PURE bullshytte. We're simply following existing policy to provide existing assistance to the victims of Pub cronyism/corruption/DEPRESSION/obstruction. Idiots. DUH!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Pure Pubcrappe from some fool at Reuters...

Listen, ya STUPID Pub dupe jackazzes- the loss on each car used to be 278K per car, now down to 49k, IF you're a stupid A-HOLE- LOL! Why is it coming down, because R+D is included, and per car it obviously goes down as sales continue. That R+D as mentioned is used throughout the whole company, so even THAT is stupid BS.
The dupes aren't buying them because they're brainwashed twits, they're just now starting to realize it's NOT an electric that needs to be charged every 80 miles. The fire OUTRAGE was also BS, has never happened outside the lab. As usual, your heroes are lying nonstop. Un-American BS.

Yeah bankruptcy was a great idea- other companies would just buy them up. Now tell me who had any MONEY TO BUY THEM WITH IN 2009, SHYTTEHEADS- Pubs would have destroyed 2/3 of our auto industry and had another Pub World DEPRESSION. Jeebus what STUPID douchebags...LOL Rush/Beck/Svage/Sean/Pubbots!!

End of story, chumps.

You poor, poor thing, blanko....…looks like I've got you peddling harder than Ed Begley trying to make himself a piece of toast.



"Yeah bankruptcy was a great idea- other companies would just buy them up."

Every piece of the company would be auctioned.

Concept foreign to you?
Like education?

 

[francoHFW]

No body had any MONEY, dingbat. LOL!

 

[PoliticalChic]

No body had any MONEY, dingbat. LOL!

What!!!

Nothing in your styrofoam cup????


Maybe because you wrote "WILL WORK FOR FOOD" on your sign....

 

[Gadawg73]

All this Pub "equality" Pubcrappe is PURE bullshytte. We're simply following existing policy to provide existing assistance to the victims of Pub cronyism/corruption/DEPRESSION/obstruction. Idiots. DUH!

Respectfully, how many people in your life have called you a dumb ass?
Hundreds, thousands?
Guess why.

 

[jillian]

Now PC, you really are behind the times. Ford has a hybrid plugin set to go on sale. The C-Max Energi, 20 miles as an ev, 47/47 as a hybrid. Already exceeds the 54.5 mpg mandate for 2025.

i just drove BMW's hybrid, too.

isn't it weird how the really extreme people on the right think there's something wrong with conservation?

it's kind of retarded.

 

[jillian]

Pure Pubcrappe from some fool at Reuters...

Listen, ya STUPID Pub dupe jackazzes- the loss on each car used to be 278K per car, now down to 49k, IF you're a stupid A-HOLE- LOL! Why is it coming down, because R+D is included, and per car it obviously goes down as sales continue. That R+D as mentioned is used throughout the whole company, so even THAT is stupid BS.
The dupes aren't buying them because they're brainwashed twits, they're just now starting to realize it's NOT an electric that needs to be charged every 80 miles. The fire OUTRAGE was also BS, has never happened outside the lab. As usual, your heroes are lying nonstop. Un-American BS.

Yeah bankruptcy was a great idea- other companies would just buy them up. Now tell me who had any MONEY TO BUY THEM WITH IN 2009, SHYTTEHEADS- Pubs would have destroyed 2/3 of our auto industry and had another Pub World DEPRESSION. Jeebus what STUPID douchebags...LOL Rush/Beck/Svage/Sean/Pubbots!!

End of story, chumps.

You poor, poor thing, blanko....…looks like I've got you peddling harder than Ed Begley trying to make himself a piece of toast.



"Yeah bankruptcy was a great idea- other companies would just buy them up."

Every piece of the company would be auctioned.

Concept foreign to you?
Like education?

because you're doing your own call and response, i'm finding it difficult to follow what you posted there.

 

[francoHFW]

No body had any MONEY, dingbat. LOL!

What!!!

Nothing in your styrofoam cup????


Maybe because you wrote "WILL WORK FOR FOOD" on your sign....

Dumazz talking points and STOOOPID insults. Too bad you have no FACTS or MEMORY, it appears. The stock market loss half its worth and real estate 40%, the world was staring into a Pub made abyss, and you think someone was going to buy GM. You're as big a fool as Romney etc etc etc are LIARS. ditto for the other jackazz.

 

[PoliticalChic]

No body had any MONEY, dingbat. LOL!

What!!!

Nothing in your styrofoam cup????


Maybe because you wrote "WILL WORK FOR FOOD" on your sign....

Dumazz talking points and STOOOPID insults. Too bad you have no FACTS or MEMORY, it appears. The stock market loss half its worth and real estate 40%, the world was staring into a Pub made abyss, and you think someone was going to buy GM. You're as big a fool as Romney etc etc etc are LIARS. ditto for the other jackazz.

"...the world was staring into a Pub made abyss, and you think someone was going to buy GM."

1. Any abyss was due to Democrat progressive/liberals who inserted government into the housing market....FDR, 1938.

2. The basis of the claim that it was any more than a recession was the Democrat progressive/liberal attempt to paint themselves as heroes.

3. Perhaps someone would buy GM...perhaps not....but factories and other parts would have been purchased. Happens every day.

If you deny that the market is not efficacious, I have one word for you: FORD.


AND....as far as 'STOOOPID insults,' well...I have to give you the edge in expertise here....as you are probably exposed to same every single day of your life.


Lemme have another shot:


You should only open your mouth to change feet.
You are so dumb you can only hitchhike in one direction.
Save your breath…you’ll need it to blow up your date.
Some dyslexic said you were full of carp.
Now that you’re ‘parted,’ how did you and your money get together in the first place??


Better?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Pure Pubcrappe from some fool at Reuters...

Listen, ya STUPID Pub dupe jackazzes- the loss on each car used to be 278K per car, now down to 49k, IF you're a stupid A-HOLE- LOL! Why is it coming down, because R+D is included, and per car it obviously goes down as sales continue. That R+D as mentioned is used throughout the whole company, so even THAT is stupid BS.
The dupes aren't buying them because they're brainwashed twits, they're just now starting to realize it's NOT an electric that needs to be charged every 80 miles. The fire OUTRAGE was also BS, has never happened outside the lab. As usual, your heroes are lying nonstop. Un-American BS.

Yeah bankruptcy was a great idea- other companies would just buy them up. Now tell me who had any MONEY TO BUY THEM WITH IN 2009, SHYTTEHEADS- Pubs would have destroyed 2/3 of our auto industry and had another Pub World DEPRESSION. Jeebus what STUPID douchebags...LOL Rush/Beck/Svage/Sean/Pubbots!!

End of story, chumps.

You poor, poor thing, blanko....…looks like I've got you peddling harder than Ed Begley trying to make himself a piece of toast.



"Yeah bankruptcy was a great idea- other companies would just buy them up."

Every piece of the company would be auctioned.

Concept foreign to you?
Like education?

because you're doing your own call and response, i'm finding it difficult to follow what you posted there.

Following the law, and allowing the free market to guide events is better than government breaking the law, and handing the company over to unions.

 

[francoHFW]

Yup, just another 9% retraction recession, MORON.