A World Without Capitalism and Tradable Shares?

[Andylusion]

So you can't give me any specifics? That's disappointing.

Not as disappointing as capitalism.

Tallying Capitalism’s Death Toll

"Capitalism has ruled contemporary society since the dawn of the industrial revolution.

"Capitalism organizes the means of production to generate profit for the few, rather than meeting the needs of the many.

"Capitalism has wreaked havoc on our planet, and our worth as individuals. Capitalism will not satisfy the needs of the vast majority, simply because it is not profitable to do so."

Sure. Name the free-market privately owned and operated military that did all that.

 

[Andylusion]

Imagine living in the soviet union where 30% of the people starved to death?

Capitalism killed more Russians in the decade after 1989 than Stalin did.
As if you care?

So you support how the Russian Socialists operated? You steal resources of the people around you by lethal force, so that you live while they die?

That's what you support? Funny how you claim that's what Capitalism does, and then support the results of doing that by Socialists.

 

[Andylusion]

Stalin and his people lived like Kings while the rest of the Soviet Union lived like roaches...

The Soviet economy, 1917-1991: Its life and afterlife | VOX, CEPR Policy Portal

"Russia’s Soviet era was distinguished not by economic growth or human development, but by the use of the economy to build national power.

"On the centenary of the Bolshevik revolution of 1917, this column shows that while the education of women and better survival rates of children improved opportunities for many citizens, Soviet Russia was a tough and unequal environment in which to be born, live and grow old.

"The Soviet economy was designed for the age of mass production and mass armies. That age has gone, but the idea of the Soviet economy lives on, fed by nostalgia and nationalism."

The problem is, already know those numbers are lies.

If things were that great in Soviet Russia, the Soviet system would not have crashed in on itself. The Russians would not have been engaged in cannibalism to survive.

 

[Andylusion]

Tradable shares aren't terrorism.

[Badiou and Politics] How Global Capitalism Generates Terrorism, Racism, and Xenophobia.

He's wrong. You can quote his false statements as much as you want. He is still wrong.

 

[Andylusion]

Wow, this has to be the dumbest idea I've seen in awhile.

And that's saying something, given how many QAnon/Trump posts I've been reading.

Why are you reading about Qanon and Trump, lack of imagination ?

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses.

"Suddenly, the profit-wage distinction makes no sense and corporations are cut down to size, boosting market competition.

"When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend

"When the child becomes a teenager, the central bank throws in a free checking account.

"Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

"Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Wow, this has to be the dumbest idea I've seen in awhile.

And that's saying something, given how many QAnon/Trump posts I've been reading.

Why are you reading about Qanon and Trump, lack of imagination ?

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses.

"Suddenly, the profit-wage distinction makes no sense and corporations are cut down to size, boosting market competition.

"When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend

"When the child becomes a teenager, the central bank throws in a free checking account.

"Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

"Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

We've already responded to this before.

You were not able to counter any of our replies then, and you have nothing new to add now. If you keep doing cut&paste posts, I'll just start reporting you to the moderators, until they start deleting your posts.

 

[Andylusion]

Just move to North Korea.

After you,

Traitor.

We have no intention of moving to North Korea. You are the one saying you want the socialist policies that North Korea has.

 

[Andylusion]

I dont know how anyone could actually believe anything that you post -

You believe this

I love how the only way you can make an argument, is by posting something none of us believes, and saying "You believe this".

You see the difference between my post, and your post? I used facts. You invented false claims about other people.

 

[Andylusion]

The slaves were bought from Muslim slave traders, why don't we blame Islam?

Rich Muslim capitalists?
Why not.

Would it be any less of a problem if they were rich socialist slave traders? You know like the gulags, and Soviet run companies in Russia? Is that "better" in your world?

 

[Gmak2442]

I doubt the leading Society have build all these banks, cashier, money and so on for nothing. I'm sure the plan is good.

 

[Andylusion]

I must give credit where credit is due.

At least you are not trying to hide your commie leanings.

I have grave doubts about oligarchy and communism, but I'm reasonably certain rich people pose the greatest immediate threat to this country which, for all its many faults, is a much better champion of individual freedom than either Russia or China.

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Barricaded in their gated communities, the smarter among the uber-rich advocate a new 'stakeholder capitalism', even calling for higher taxes on their class.

"They recognize the best possible insurance policy in democracy and the redistributive state. Alas, at the same time, they fear that, as a class, it is in their nature to skimp on the insurance premium."

Then move to a country that has eliminated or chased out all the rich people.

Back your claims with actions. Move to North Korea. Move to Cuba even. Move to Venezuela.

There are countries that have no private rich people.

See this is the problem with you left-wingers. You scream b!tch and moan, but you never live out what you claim. Go live out what you claim. If you think it would be so much better without the rich, there are options to prove you believe it, by moving to a country which has almost none.

But you don't want that. You don't want to go to a country that has your ideology, because those places suck.

Instead you want to ruin the most wealthy country in the world, by having the policies that destroyed Venezuela enacted here. You can't just be content with destroy other people's nations, you have to destroy this one.

 

[Andylusion]

Why doesn't our current socialist Big Wig do that then?

Who are you referring to?
There are no socialists in US government.

So, you are ignorant. Ok.

 

[Andylusion]

Every country in the world practiced slavery before 1820, you fucking moron.

Sounds like a good time for some payback

Should America Pay Slavery Reparations?

You can pay if you want. Go for it.

Why should people who were not slaves, didn't have parents who were slaves, get paid money by people who never owned a slave, and never had slaves in their family history?

No. American should not.

 

[Andylusion]

According to George, the Dot.com bubble is a "crisis," but 30 million people starving to death is just another day under socialism.

How many millions of people have starved to death in the last twelve months because they couldn't afford to buy food?

In the US? Zero. In any Capitalist first world country? Zero.

In Socialist Venezuela, North Korea, and any other country with Socialist roots? Likely quite a few.

 

[Andylusion]

According to George, the Dot.com bubble is a "crisis," but 30 million people starving to death is just another day under socialism.

How many millions of people have starved to death in the last twelve months because they couldn't afford to buy food?

Nope. NAZIs are socialists.

Why did they kill millions of communists and socialists FOR MONEY, Moron?

Were the Nazis Socialists?

Because the Communist Socialists were under the sway of Stalin. The Nazi socialists were under the sway of Hitler. Hilter wanted power, and didn't want Stalin control the Germany government.

That's why.

 

[Andylusion]

Imagine a nation where, instead of a cabal of wealthy corporations, there was only one. And that corporation was your employer, your grocer, your landlord and your doctor - whether you like it or not. That's socialism. Oh, I almost forgot. You get to vote. Yay!

Imagine a society with no need of nations, corporations, or money where every basic need was met without exploitation.

By all means, go live in such a society.

That's where everyone starves to death. Because how are you going to get every basic need met, without exploitation? Explain that. Who is going to get up and put in 10 to 12 hour days, to provide you food, when they don't have to?

Who is going to provide you your basic needs, if they don't have to?

Explain that to me.

 

[Andylusion]

Soviet socialism defeated 190 German divisions

And then they enslaved half of Europe for 45 years.

After the US prevented free elections in Korea and Greece.
Why would capitalists do such a thing?

Containment - Wikipedia

Made up nonsense.

 

[Andylusion]

Soviet socialism defeated 190 German divisions

And then they enslaved half of Europe for 45 years.

Hypocrite

List of Jim Crow law examples by state - Wikipedia

Even Jim Crow didn't create slavery. And how would this make him a hypocrite? Soviets enslaved half of Europe. You posting a link to Jim Crow laws, doesn't have anything to do with the facts, nor makes him a hypocrite.

Do you even now how logical arguments work?

 

[Andylusion]

I find that response rather ironic. You claim that capitalism only advances by exploiting people. Are you even remotely aware of how many millions on millions of people were enslaved and starved to death, in order for the Soviets to advance their country? Gulag Archipelago

I'm aware the very last thing in the world Stalin needed in 1945 was a Cold War with a continental superpower whose homeland's infrastructure was untouched by the negative effects of WWII. It was Truman who prevented free elections in Greece and Korea at that time because communist candidates would have won in landslides (since capitalists will always collaborate with FASCISTS to preserve their sacred bottom line)

As far as Gulags are concerned...

Jim Crow laws - Wikipedia

Again, Jim Crow didn't create gulags. So I don't know what that has to do with the discussion. You should likely go get some education on how logical arguments work. When someone is discussing how solar energy works, pointing out that rice is high in carbs, is not an argument, anymore than pointing out that the Soviets slaughtered 60 million people, and you saying 'but but jim crow!' is not an argument. Sorry. it isn't. You need to find a real argument.

Back to the real discussion, about how the Soviets slaughtered around 60 million in forced labor, and starvation, and mass executions.

Nothing you posted really was a point. Did the cold war cause the US to slaughter 60 million people? No. So the cold war does not have anything to do with the Soviets slaughtering 60 million people.

Moreover, we know from Vietnam, and the people who fled the Communists for their lives, that intervening in Korea was the right move. If you doubt that, look at North and South Korea today, and by all means, tell me which one you would move to.

If you say the socialist country, I hope you enjoy eating grass.

 

[Andylusion]

No. I don't think so. It might have spread across Europe, But I doubt it would have made it to the US.

Socialism was a much different animal in the US a century ago before decades of mindless red scares convinced many productive Americans to support rich parasites.
View attachment 453047
"Yet it was not always this way. Oklahoma, now the reddest of red states, used to be 'red' in a much different way.

"While the state will undoubtedly go for Mitt Romney in November this year, one hundred years ago Oklahoma voters gave 16% of their vote to Eugene V. Debs – the Socialist candidate in the 1912 presidential election.

"By 1914, the Socialist Party of Oklahoma possessed 984 chapters with a sum of 12,000 registered members – the most in any state."

History of a Red State: Oklahoma, Hotbed of U.S. Socialism

No. No it was not. Socialists are exactly the same today, as in the past. They attack and burn buildings, they have chaos and violence, and they demand to have the property they didn't earn, that other people have.

Nothing has changed.

 

[bripat9643]

According to George, the Dot.com bubble is a "crisis," but 30 million people starving to death is just another day under socialism.

How many millions of people have starved to death in the last twelve months because they couldn't afford to buy food?

Nope. NAZIs are socialists.

Why did they kill millions of communists and socialists FOR MONEY, Moron?

Were the Nazis Socialists?

Because the Communist Socialists were under the sway of Stalin. The Nazi socialists were under the sway of Hitler. Hilter wanted power, and didn't want Stalin control the Germany government.

That's why.

Dims would have us believe that because Henry V attacked France that he wasn't a monarchist.