A World Without Capitalism and Tradable Shares?

[Toro]

If tradable shares as enshrined in corporate law "weaponized" capitalism, is it time to revisit the scene of the crime?

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Confronting rentier capitalism and fashioning firms for which social responsibility is more than a marketing ploy requires nothing less than re-writing corporate law.

"To recognize the scale of the undertaking, it helps to return to the moment in history when tradable shares weaponized capitalism, and to ask ourselves: Are we ready to correct that 'error'?

"The moment occurred on 24 September 1599. In a timbered building off Moorgate Fields, not far from where Shakespeare was struggling to complete Hamlet, a new type of company was founded. Its ownership of the new firm, called the East India Company, was sliced into tiny pieces to be bought and sold freely...."

"To imagine what transcending capitalism might mean in practice requires rethinking the ownership of corporations.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold."

Imagine that.

Wow, this has to be the dumbest idea I've seen in awhile.

And that's saying something, given how many QAnon/Trump posts I've been reading.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If tradable shares as enshrined in corporate law "weaponized" capitalism, is it time to revisit the scene of the crime?

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Confronting rentier capitalism and fashioning firms for which social responsibility is more than a marketing ploy requires nothing less than re-writing corporate law.

"To recognize the scale of the undertaking, it helps to return to the moment in history when tradable shares weaponized capitalism, and to ask ourselves: Are we ready to correct that 'error'?

"The moment occurred on 24 September 1599. In a timbered building off Moorgate Fields, not far from where Shakespeare was struggling to complete Hamlet, a new type of company was founded. Its ownership of the new firm, called the East India Company, was sliced into tiny pieces to be bought and sold freely...."

"To imagine what transcending capitalism might mean in practice requires rethinking the ownership of corporations.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold."

Imagine that.

Wow, this has to be the dumbest idea I've seen in awhile.

And that's saying something, given how many QAnon/Trump posts I've been reading.

George is good at posting dumb commie "ideas".

 

[theHawk]

If tradable shares as enshrined in corporate law "weaponized" capitalism, is it time to revisit the scene of the crime?

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Confronting rentier capitalism and fashioning firms for which social responsibility is more than a marketing ploy requires nothing less than re-writing corporate law.

"To recognize the scale of the undertaking, it helps to return to the moment in history when tradable shares weaponized capitalism, and to ask ourselves: Are we ready to correct that 'error'?

"The moment occurred on 24 September 1599. In a timbered building off Moorgate Fields, not far from where Shakespeare was struggling to complete Hamlet, a new type of company was founded. Its ownership of the new firm, called the East India Company, was sliced into tiny pieces to be bought and sold freely...."

"To imagine what transcending capitalism might mean in practice requires rethinking the ownership of corporations.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold."

Imagine that.

Just move to North Korea.

 

[Billiejeens]

The Star Trek scenario. Where your basic needs (shelter, food, transportation, medical care) are provided. There is no monetary system. You work for the betterment and advancement of the species and for your own personal knowledge and deed based goals. Sure, I can see it happening....in maybe in thirty or fourty years when we've blown the shit out of the system we have now. It ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. Honestly, why do we keep rolling this stuff over? Our economic system has been a mix of capitalism and socialism for almost a century now. Wanting to fix the ACA, wanting to provide better infrastructure, wanting to provide an equitable tax system, making education more affordable. These can be accomplished within our present system without throwing all the bullshit "ism" and "ist" terms around.

Does this sound possible in your lifetime?

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.

"When the child becomes a teenager, the central bank throws in a free checking account.

"Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

"Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

I dont know how anyone could actually believe anything that you post -

 

[georgephillip]

How the fuck is any of that the result of capitalism you loon ? Most of that shit happens in 3rd world dictatorships.

Which "ism" made million$ from chattel slavery and Native American genocide, capitalists OR socialists?

Transatlantic Slave Trade, A Five Hundred-Year-Old Shared History - Los Angeles Sentinel

"The transatlantic slave trade is often regarded as the first system of globalization and lasted from the 16th century through much of the 19th century.

"Slavery, and the global political, socio-economic and banking systems that supported it, constitutes one of the greatest tragedies in the history of humanity both in terms of scale and duration."

 

[georgephillip]

No MAGA here in Chicago. Plenty of shutdowns.
Commies still suck.

Maybe you were born in the wrong century, Kulak?

Transatlantic Slave Trade, A Five Hundred-Year-Old Shared History - Los Angeles Sentinel

“When a French ship arrived in the New World with a load of slaves to be bartered for sugar, the value of the slaves equaled about twice as much sugar as the ship could carry back to France.

"For that reason, the most common form of slave contract called for fifty percent of the sugar to be delivered immediately and the remainder to be delivered a year later."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No MAGA here in Chicago. Plenty of shutdowns.
Commies still suck.

Maybe you were born in the wrong century, Kulak?

Transatlantic Slave Trade, A Five Hundred-Year-Old Shared History - Los Angeles Sentinel

“When a French ship arrived in the New World with a load of slaves to be bartered for sugar, the value of the slaves equaled about twice as much sugar as the ship could carry back to France.

"For that reason, the most common form of slave contract called for fifty percent of the sugar to be delivered immediately and the remainder to be delivered a year later."

The slaves were bought from Muslim slave traders, why don't we blame Islam?

 

[georgephillip]

No, you can't take a socioeconomic system advocating common ownership without classes that kills hundreds of millions and apply it to the native americans who had a class system and hierarchy

Marx had a different understanding of Native Americans than you:

http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2012_02.dir/pdfXSzpVPe6x8.pdf

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No MAGA here in Chicago. Plenty of shutdowns.
Commies still suck.

Maybe you were born in the wrong century, Kulak?

Transatlantic Slave Trade, A Five Hundred-Year-Old Shared History - Los Angeles Sentinel

“When a French ship arrived in the New World with a load of slaves to be bartered for sugar, the value of the slaves equaled about twice as much sugar as the ship could carry back to France.

"For that reason, the most common form of slave contract called for fifty percent of the sugar to be delivered immediately and the remainder to be delivered a year later."

I must give credit where credit is due.

At least you are not trying to hide your commie leanings.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No, you can't take a socioeconomic system advocating common ownership without classes that kills hundreds of millions and apply it to the native americans who had a class system and hierarchy

Marx had a different understanding of Native Americans than you:

http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2012_02.dir/pdfXSzpVPe6x8.pdf

And that shit only "worked" because the people were family/relatives, AND the Iroquois made slaves out of the surrounding tribes.

It does NOT work with completely unrelated strangers and no slave labor. But, nice try.

COMMIE DOES NOT WORK!!!!

 

[Brain357]

Monopolies are not good capitalism. What we need is good capitalism. We have cronyism currently.

Some would argue the purpose of capitalism is monopoly:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Then, toward the end of the 19th century, as the first networked mega-companies—including Edison, General Electric, and Bell—were formed, the genie released by marketable shares went a step further.

"Because neither banks nor investors had enough money to plough into the networked mega-firms, the mega-bank emerged in the form of a global cartel of banks and shadowy funds, each with its own shareholders

"Unprecedented new debt was thus created to transfer value to the present, in the hope of profiting sufficiently to repay the future.

"Mega-finance, mega-equity, mega-pension funds, and mega-financial crises were the logical outcome.

"The crashes of 1929 and 2008, the unstoppable rise of Big Tech, and all the other ingredients of today’s discontent with capitalism, became inescapable."

Nobody who understands capitalism would argue that. We get monopoly because it's too easy to buy our politicians. We need campaign finance reform. None of this is the fault of capitalism.

Thanks for admitting you don't understand capitalism.

Oh you think the purpose of capitalism is monopoly then eh? Moron. If you understood capitalism you wouldn't have supported trump and his moronic tariffs.

No, I don't think the purpose of capitalism is monopoly, moron. What did I just say?

Do you believe Dims are all good capitalists?

You seemed to be disagreeing with me. But since you are so stupid you probably have no clue. Tell how tariffs are good capitalism. haha

There are few good capitalists in this country. Your righties just bow to the rich and kiss their feet. The left have too many who think socialism might just be good. That said I'd take Obama over Rump any day so I guess they are a bit better.

Tariffs are not good capitalism. However, that's only one issue. The Green New Deal is an all out assault on capitalism. A capitalist will always go with the former rather than the later. Nothing in Biden's platform is capitalism. He's a fascist to the bone.

Ah well you admit its not good capitalism. Amazing, I thought you were completely dishonest. I haven't seen the green new deal happening. We got stuck with the shitty tariffs and they hurt our manufacturing and farming. Lead to a nice big farmer bailout. Are big bailouts good capitalism?

Biden has only been in office for a week, numskull. He has already destroyed 75,000 jobs.

Are big bailouts good capitalism or is that another trump fail?

75,000 now is it? Wow the number keeps growing, you have some imagination.

We abandoned free market capitalism at least 80 years ago, so why are you getting anal about it now?

Our situation continues to worsen . Inequality grows, more near monopolies, wage collusion.... meanwhile we can’t hit 3% gdp growth because of it. Much needs fixing. I prefer fixing our capitalism to socialism.

 

[georgephillip]

With the help of state governors and mayors, big tech just made 3.9 trillion during the pandemic while the workers lost 3.7 trillion. They chose who the winners were by shutting down the mom and pop local businesse

For those keeping score, that's three crisis of capitalism that have occurred in this century, Dot-Com, Housing Bubble, and Covid. In some European countries that do a better job of protecting their citizens governments automatically deposited an amount of cash that was 80% of what the citizen/business was earning before the pandemic struck. Imho, that doesn't happen here because politics is the shadow Big Business casts on society.

 

[Polishprince]

With the help of state governors and mayors, big tech just made 3.9 trillion during the pandemic while the workers lost 3.7 trillion. They chose who the winners were by shutting down the mom and pop local businesse

For those keeping score, that's three crisis of capitalism that have occurred in this century, Dot-Com, Housing Bubble, and Covid. In some European countries that do a better job of protecting their citizens governments automatically deposited an amount of cash that was 80% of what the citizen/business was earning before the pandemic struck. Imho, that doesn't happen here because politics is the shadow Big Business casts on society.

Why doesn't our current socialist Big Wig do that then?

 

[bripat9643]

How the fuck is any of that the result of capitalism you loon ? Most of that shit happens in 3rd world dictatorships.

Which "ism" made million$ from chattel slavery and Native American genocide, capitalists OR socialists?

Transatlantic Slave Trade, A Five Hundred-Year-Old Shared History - Los Angeles Sentinel

"The transatlantic slave trade is often regarded as the first system of globalization and lasted from the 16th century through much of the 19th century.

"Slavery, and the global political, socio-economic and banking systems that supported it, constitutes one of the greatest tragedies in the history of humanity both in terms of scale and duration."

Every country in the world practiced slavery before 1820, you fucking moron.

 

[bripat9643]

If tradable shares as enshrined in corporate law "weaponized" capitalism, is it time to revisit the scene of the crime?

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Confronting rentier capitalism and fashioning firms for which social responsibility is more than a marketing ploy requires nothing less than re-writing corporate law.

"To recognize the scale of the undertaking, it helps to return to the moment in history when tradable shares weaponized capitalism, and to ask ourselves: Are we ready to correct that 'error'?

"The moment occurred on 24 September 1599. In a timbered building off Moorgate Fields, not far from where Shakespeare was struggling to complete Hamlet, a new type of company was founded. Its ownership of the new firm, called the East India Company, was sliced into tiny pieces to be bought and sold freely...."

"To imagine what transcending capitalism might mean in practice requires rethinking the ownership of corporations.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold."

Imagine that.

Imagine living in the soviet union where 30% of the people starved to death?

Shut the fuck up. Have you ever lived in communism, you limey piece of shit?

According to George, the Dot.com bubble is a "crisis," but 30 million people starving to death is just another day under socialism.

 

[bripat9643]

No MAGA here in Chicago. Plenty of shutdowns.
Commies still suck.

Maybe you were born in the wrong century, Kulak?

Transatlantic Slave Trade, A Five Hundred-Year-Old Shared History - Los Angeles Sentinel

“When a French ship arrived in the New World with a load of slaves to be bartered for sugar, the value of the slaves equaled about twice as much sugar as the ship could carry back to France.

"For that reason, the most common form of slave contract called for fifty percent of the sugar to be delivered immediately and the remainder to be delivered a year later."

The slaves were bought from Muslim slave traders, why don't we blame Islam?

That's not politically correct. Since Mulsims vote Democrat, we have to excuse every atrocity they ever committed, and the list is long.

 

[georgephillip]

By throwing bodies at the problem. Soviet military casualties were 8.6 million Germany's was 5.3 and the fact that Hitler was as historical stupid as you seem to be. Getting bogged down in Russia during the winter is moronic.
Again Nazi's are Socialist.

US and UK capitalists allowed German capitalists to rearm in the wake of WWI as a buffer against Russian communism

German capitalists believed they could control Hitler.

They could not.

Nazis are right-wing fascists just like

 

[bripat9643]

Monopolies are not good capitalism. What we need is good capitalism. We have cronyism currently.

Some would argue the purpose of capitalism is monopoly:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Then, toward the end of the 19th century, as the first networked mega-companies—including Edison, General Electric, and Bell—were formed, the genie released by marketable shares went a step further.

"Because neither banks nor investors had enough money to plough into the networked mega-firms, the mega-bank emerged in the form of a global cartel of banks and shadowy funds, each with its own shareholders

"Unprecedented new debt was thus created to transfer value to the present, in the hope of profiting sufficiently to repay the future.

"Mega-finance, mega-equity, mega-pension funds, and mega-financial crises were the logical outcome.

"The crashes of 1929 and 2008, the unstoppable rise of Big Tech, and all the other ingredients of today’s discontent with capitalism, became inescapable."

Nobody who understands capitalism would argue that. We get monopoly because it's too easy to buy our politicians. We need campaign finance reform. None of this is the fault of capitalism.

Thanks for admitting you don't understand capitalism.

Oh you think the purpose of capitalism is monopoly then eh? Moron. If you understood capitalism you wouldn't have supported trump and his moronic tariffs.

No, I don't think the purpose of capitalism is monopoly, moron. What did I just say?

Do you believe Dims are all good capitalists?

You seemed to be disagreeing with me. But since you are so stupid you probably have no clue. Tell how tariffs are good capitalism. haha

There are few good capitalists in this country. Your righties just bow to the rich and kiss their feet. The left have too many who think socialism might just be good. That said I'd take Obama over Rump any day so I guess they are a bit better.

Tariffs are not good capitalism. However, that's only one issue. The Green New Deal is an all out assault on capitalism. A capitalist will always go with the former rather than the later. Nothing in Biden's platform is capitalism. He's a fascist to the bone.

Ah well you admit its not good capitalism. Amazing, I thought you were completely dishonest. I haven't seen the green new deal happening. We got stuck with the shitty tariffs and they hurt our manufacturing and farming. Lead to a nice big farmer bailout. Are big bailouts good capitalism?

Biden has only been in office for a week, numskull. He has already destroyed 75,000 jobs.

Are big bailouts good capitalism or is that another trump fail?

75,000 now is it? Wow the number keeps growing, you have some imagination.

We abandoned free market capitalism at least 80 years ago, so why are you getting anal about it now?

Our situation continues to worsen . Inequality grows, more near monopolies, wage collusion.... meanwhile we can’t hit 3% gdp growth because of it. Much needs fixing. I prefer fixing our capitalism to socialism.

So the more socialism grows in this country, the worse it becomes. Doesn't that give you a clue, NAZI?

 

[bripat9643]

By throwing bodies at the problem. Soviet military casualties were 8.6 million Germany's was 5.3 and the fact that Hitler was as historical stupid as you seem to be. Getting bogged down in Russia during the winter is moronic.
Again Nazi's are Socialist.

US and UK capitalists allowed German capitalists to rearm in the wake of WWI as a buffer against Russian communism

German capitalists believed they could control Hitler.

They could not.

Nazis are right-wing fascists just like

Nope. NAZIs are socialists.

 

[georgephillip]

Soviet Socialism won WWII? Do you know how many Russians died in WWII? The Russian Winter and Hitler's strategic lunacy defeated the Nazis. Soviet Socialism had nothing to do with it.

Soviet socialism defeated 190 German divisions in less time than the allies needed to win against 10-12 Nazi divisions.

Capitalists in the US and UK allowed German capitalists to get rich by rearming after WWI as a hedge against communism.

Hitler had little choice about invading Russia regardless of the weather.

Who got rich from that?

No one in Russia.