Abbas: Peace Agreement Will End Conflict

[Hoffstra]

Muslims NEVER ruled Palestine. They just lived there and owned land

Muslims ruled and controlled Palestine for more than 1,200 years.

300 years more than the Jews before their defeat by the Romans.

No they didn't

The Muslims conquered Palestine in 638 AD. They ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders took control. Muslims reconquered Palestine in 1187 AD and ruled it until 1918.

 

[toastman]

Muslims ruled and controlled Palestine for more than 1,200 years.

300 years more than the Jews before their defeat by the Romans.

No they didn't

The Muslims conquered Palestine in 638 AD. They ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders took control. Muslims reconquered Palestine in 1187 AD and ruled it until 1918.

Before 1918, it was the Ottoman Empire that ruled it.
Anyway, I was mistaking 'Muslims' for 'Arabs'
ARABS never ruled Palestine. What does it matter what the religion was of the people who ruled it ?

 

[Hoffstra]

Before 1918, it was the Ottoman Empire that ruled it.
Anyway, I was mistaking 'Muslims' for 'Arabs'
ARABS never ruled Palestine. What does it matter what the religion was of the people who ruled it ?

Israel decides its immigration rules based on religion, not ethnicity.

If a Gentile converts to Judaism in Poland, or Lebanon, or England, or Iraq, he suddenly is awarded the Right of Return to Israel.

 

[toastman]

Before 1918, it was the Ottoman Empire that ruled it.
Anyway, I was mistaking 'Muslims' for 'Arabs'
ARABS never ruled Palestine. What does it matter what the religion was of the people who ruled it ?

Israel decides its immigration rules based on religion, not ethnicity.

If a Gentile converts to Judaism in Poland, or Lebanon, or England, or Iraq, he suddenly is awarded the Right of Return to Israel.

What does that have to do with the fact that Arabs never ruled Palestine ?
Palestinians never ruled Palestine

 

[Hoffstra]

What does that have to do with the fact that Arabs never ruled Palestine ?
Palestinians never ruled Palestine

from the Muslims never ruled Palestine.

to the Arabs never ruled Palestine.

to now the Palestinians never ruled Palestine.

what goalposts will you be moving to next?




.....Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews never ruled Palestine before 1949. BAZEENGA!

 

[MHunterB]

and the Palestinians giving up their claims on Jewish Palestine.

Many Jews believe that "God" gave them the West Bank.

Only if "God" is spelled I-D-F.......

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

On both sides of the issue, there are ancient claims that date back to antiquity. None are really any more valid than three-dollar bill. The reality of the world has changed many times since Moses lead the Hebrews out of Egypt; and later when Herodotus first spoke of the Syrian District of Palaistinê.

Ancient claims really are a product of an bad strategic position, a poor understanding of actual policy, and the absence of a clear and compelling case.

and the Palestinians giving up their claims on Jewish Palestine.

Many Jews believe that "God" gave them the West Bank.

Only if "God" is spelled I-D-F.......

(COMMENT)

Israel really doesn't want the West Bank. Neither the people, the industry, or the economy of the West Bank have anything to offer Israel.

But Israel does want a slice of Jerusalem. I'm not religious enough (being agnostic) to truly have an appreciation for why, but they do.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

et al,

On both sides of the issue, there are ancient claims that date back to antiquity. None are really any more valid than three-dollar bill. The reality of the world has changed many times since Moses lead the Hebrews out of Egypt; and later when Herodotus first spoke of the Syrian District of Palaistinê.

Ancient claims really are a product of an bad strategic position, a poor understanding of actual policy, and the absence of a clear and compelling case.

Many Jews believe that "God" gave them the West Bank.

Only if "God" is spelled I-D-F.......

(COMMENT)

Israel really doesn't want the West Bank. Neither the people, the industry, or the economy of the West Bank have anything to offer Israel.

But Israel does want a slice of Jerusalem. I'm not religious enough (being agnostic) to truly have an appreciation for why, but they do.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel already has all of Jerusalem. It will never be divided. Ever.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

et al,

On both sides of the issue, there are ancient claims that date back to antiquity. None are really any more valid than three-dollar bill. The reality of the world has changed many times since Moses lead the Hebrews out of Egypt; and later when Herodotus first spoke of the Syrian District of Palaistinê.

Ancient claims really are a product of an bad strategic position, a poor understanding of actual policy, and the absence of a clear and compelling case.

Many Jews believe that "God" gave them the West Bank.

Only if "God" is spelled I-D-F.......

(COMMENT)

Israel really doesn't want the West Bank. Neither the people, the industry, or the economy of the West Bank have anything to offer Israel.

But Israel does want a slice of Jerusalem. I'm not religious enough (being agnostic) to truly have an appreciation for why, but they do.

Most Respectfully,
R

Besides Jerusalem, there are other cities in the West Bank with large Jewish populations, including Ma'alei Adumim, Ariel and Itamar. These are not even Biblical cities, but they have so many Jews living in them, that Israel will probably want to keep them in a final agreement.

 

[RoccoR]

toastman; et al,

I'm not sure we can say this with any confidence.

et al,

On both sides of the issue, there are ancient claims that date back to antiquity. None are really any more valid than three-dollar bill. The reality of the world has changed many times since Moses lead the Hebrews out of Egypt; and later when Herodotus first spoke of the Syrian District of Palaistinê.

Ancient claims really are a product of an bad strategic position, a poor understanding of actual policy, and the absence of a clear and compelling case.

Only if "God" is spelled I-D-F.......

(COMMENT)

Israel really doesn't want the West Bank. Neither the people, the industry, or the economy of the West Bank have anything to offer Israel.

But Israel does want a slice of Jerusalem. I'm not religious enough (being agnostic) to truly have an appreciation for why, but they do.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel already has all of Jerusalem. It will never be divided. Ever.

(COMMENT)

We simply don't know what the strategy is; for either side.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

toastman; et al,

I'm not sure we can say this with any confidence.

et al,

On both sides of the issue, there are ancient claims that date back to antiquity. None are really any more valid than three-dollar bill. The reality of the world has changed many times since Moses lead the Hebrews out of Egypt; and later when Herodotus first spoke of the Syrian District of Palaistinê.

Ancient claims really are a product of an bad strategic position, a poor understanding of actual policy, and the absence of a clear and compelling case.


(COMMENT)

Israel really doesn't want the West Bank. Neither the people, the industry, or the economy of the West Bank have anything to offer Israel.

But Israel does want a slice of Jerusalem. I'm not religious enough (being agnostic) to truly have an appreciation for why, but they do.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel already has all of Jerusalem. It will never be divided. Ever.

(COMMENT)

We simply don't know what the strategy is; for either side.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, I'm very confused by this statement. Can you elaborate please

 

[RoccoR]

toastman, et al,

Normally, insisting on an "all or nothing" strategy in a negotiation is a deal breaker. It leaves no room for compromise.

toastman; et al,

I'm not sure we can say this with any confidence.

Israel already has all of Jerusalem. It will never be divided. Ever.

(COMMENT)

We simply don't know what the strategy is; for either side.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, I'm very confused by this statement. Can you elaborate please

(COMMENT)

Each side is going into the Peace Talks with some sort of minimum expectation for an outcome. Each side is prepared to negotiate, on points that they will sacrifice and points they are willing to risk. They will look at proposals and counter-proposals. There must be in every agreement, and exchange of an offer of a benefit for a benefit in return.

We simply don't know what each side is willing to negotiate on, or give in return for something considered equally of benefit. Nor, do we know (with rare exceptions) if there are actually some aspects which are absolutely non-negotiable.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[José]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
Besides Jerusalem, there are other cities in the West Bank with large Jewish populations, including Ma'alei Adumim, Ariel and Itamar. These are not even Biblical cities, but they have so many Jews living in them, that Israel will probably want to keep them in a final agreement.

I agree with what you usually say about the West Bank, FY (not in this particular post).

The biblical sites, the tremendous emotional value it has for Jews, any compromise would be a painful one.

Israel does want the land but it doesn't want the people living on it.

And here lies, in all its glory, the moral depravity of the jewish racial dictatorship.

 

[José]

Originally posted by RoccoR
We simply don't know what each side is willing to negotiate on, or give in return for something considered equally of benefit. Nor, do we know (with rare exceptions) if there are actually some aspects which are absolutely non-negotiable.

Speak for yourself, Rocco, because I do:

The right to live in western Palestine.

 

[José]

Is the right of the palestinian people to live in western Palestine "an absolutely non-negotiable" point for Israel too?

Absolutely. You bet it is.

A deal breaker, as Rocco referred to it.

Result of the equation:

There'll be no palestinian state and the status quo will be maintained for decades (generations) to come.

 

[Hoffstra]

Is the right of the palestinian people to live in western Palestine "an absolutely non-negotiable" point for Israel too?

Absolutely. You bet it is.

A deal breaker, as Rocco referred to it.

Result of the equation:

There'll be no palestinian state and the status quo will be maintained for decades to come.

Its very simple: if the Palestinians can't have a state in the West Bank, no one can.

 

[docmauser1]

There'll be no palestinian state and the status quo will be maintained for decades (generations) to come.

As long the international community goes on sitting on its collective arse doing nothing about a humanitarian relocation of palistanians for their own good, of course.

 

[toastman]

Originally posted by RoccoR
We simply don't know what each side is willing to negotiate on, or give in return for something considered equally of benefit. Nor, do we know (with rare exceptions) if there are actually some aspects which are absolutely non-negotiable.

Speak for yourself, Rocco, because I do:

The right to live in western Palestine.

The problem with this post is that 'Western Palestine' , doesn't exist.

No matter how hard you try to make it seem like Israel isn't there, Israel really IS there.
However, if you and the other rabid and hateful anti - Israelis choose to live in this fantasy world where 'Palestine' is located where Israel is, then that's your problem.
My invitation to join the rest of us in the world of reality still stands though

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

This is the impregnation of the concept that "Palestine" (defined as with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate) encompasses The State of Israel, and that Israel is a subdivision within Palestine. This fallacy, of course, leads to the next step, which is "Palestine" is the Arab-Palestinian Homeland; a nation unto itself.

If there is ever going to be a lasting peace, this paradigm has to shift.

Originally posted by RoccoR
We simply don't know what each side is willing to negotiate on, or give in return for something considered equally of benefit. Nor, do we know (with rare exceptions) if there are actually some aspects which are absolutely non-negotiable.

Speak for yourself, Rocco, because I do:

The right to live in western Palestine.

The problem with this post is that 'Western Palestine' , doesn't exist.

No matter how hard you try to make it seem like Israel isn't there, Israel really IS there.
However, if you and the other rabid and hateful anti - Israelis choose to live in this fantasy world where 'Palestine' is located where Israel is, then that's your problem.
My invitation to join the rest of us in the world of reality still stands though

(COMMENT)

Breaking this level of indoctrination is extremely difficult.

Remember, part of the ongoing program for the last three generations of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) has been a planned program of cult-like indoctrination. For the last two decades, we've been dealing with Article 13 Jihadist [first generation ("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."]. But in the very near future, if not already, we will be dealing with the outcome of Article 15 Jihadism (second and third generation Jihadist by program indoctrination).

Article Fifteen:

It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses). It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin).​

SOURCE: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty:

No matter what the outcome of the Peace Talks may be, even if they are totally successful, the world still has to face the upcoming Article 15 Jihadist, in fact two generations worth. Like the followers of any cult, we cannot simply flip a switch and turn them off. They will be with us for another six decades (if not more) and their residuals as well (fourth generation Jihadist through parental indoctrination). The HoAP Islamic damage is done. The after effects will retard their development and threaten regional security for another century.

These are very dangerous people, now and into the future. Without regard to formalized peace accords, we will still have exceptionally dangerous pockets of terrorism for many years to come.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Bloodrock44]

Is the right of the palestinian people to live in western Palestine "an absolutely non-negotiable" point for Israel too?

Absolutely. You bet it is.

A deal breaker, as Rocco referred to it.

Result of the equation:

There'll be no palestinian state and the status quo will be maintained for decades to come.

Its very simple: if the Palestinians can't have a state in the West Bank, no one can.

So what are you going to do? get a good Jewish lawyer and sue? Cause the arabs can't seem to do diddly squat lately cept kill each other.