Abortion and Gay Marriage

[JoeB131]

[

A person without knowledge of straight and gay or sex in general can't choose whether they're gay or straight.

I think you are getting a little closer here. Sexuality is hard-wired into the brain. If you raised a child with robots, and didn't introduce him to his first human being until he was 16, he'd find out then if he was gay or straight.

[
Life begins when it is scientifically feasible for a human to mature and grow.

Which again, would be a zygote. Except 90% of them either don't cling to the wall, fall to some kind of contraception or abortion.

[
There are enormous swaths of land on this planet that are wasted and underutilized.

No, there's too much of it dedicated to supporting human beings to the exclusion of other species that have been either hunted to extinction or to the brink of extinction.

[ If I sound like I've taken some kind of class it's only because I educate myself. Your arguments are still twisted words and slanted arguments any child could dream up after watching Fox or CNN. Continue to troll if you will..

Guy, you really don't sound that smart.

I took all those same kinds of courses. Of course, that was back in the 1980's when you actually had to prove you could READ before they let you into a university.

Then I had 30 years to have real life experience.

Get back to me when you get some.

 

[koshergrl]

Well it's not, we already know this. The question then becomes...why do people raise their children to be homosexual?

Nobody raises their child to be a homosexual. The current body of evidence is that there IS a genetic component. As usual, you spout off before doing any sort of research on the topic.

Telling a child he can't wear high heels and tutus won't deter him from being a homosexual if that's what he was born to be, any more than sending a child for sexual reprogramming will change his/her orientation.

You can't make a straight child gay, any more than you can make a gay child straight. Children will grow up to be who they are and there is little that any parent can do to change that path. Did you make a choice to be straight? I certainly didn't and I don't know anyone who did. Being straight or gay is who they are, not who they chose to be.

This woman is raising her children to be homosexual. By grooming them from a very young age, by telling them from birth that it doesn't matter what they decide, by exposing them to homosexuality and being homosexual themselves.

It's called "grooming" and it is rampant in the homosexual community.

When Your 7-Year-Old Son Says, 'I Want to Be Gay' | Amelia#

 

[Flopper]

Wrong, 50% of births to women under 30 are to single mothers. But yea, everything is cool with all the bastard kids being born. No problems here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

Liberals accept the changing structure of the American family and seek to change policies to accommodate the challenges that have grown out of this trend. So many problems in education, social welfare, and healthcare flow out this the trend. Conservative see the solution is to reverse this trend or ignore it. In my opinion, that's just no possible.

You don't understand how these trends came about...

Oh, there are many reasons for the trend, change in attitude toward sex before marriage, disappearance of the scourge of illegitimacy, women's desire for a baby but not a husband, financial support by government and charitable organizations, and reluctance of the mate to marry are just a few of the reasons. However, what difference does it make because these thing aren't going to change. We're not going back to a time when women were depend on a men for financial support or social acceptance of herself or her children.

 

[koshergrl]

Now the scourge of illegitimacy is criminality and poverty.

 

[Iceman]

Liberals accept the changing structure of the American family and seek to change policies to accommodate the challenges that have grown out of this trend. So many problems in education, social welfare, and healthcare flow out this the trend. Conservative see the solution is to reverse this trend or ignore it. In my opinion, that's just no possible.

You don't understand how these trends came about...

Oh, there are many reasons for the trend, change in attitude toward sex before marriage, disappearance of the scourge of illegitimacy, women's desire for a baby but not a husband, financial support by government and charitable organizations, and reluctance of the mate to marry are just few of the reason. However, what difference does it make because these thing aren't going to change. We're not going back to a time when women were depend on a men for financial support or social acceptance of herself or her children.

Wow, you actually got it right on the head. All these parallel the rise of Feminism, are a result of Feminism going mainstream in our political and social culture.

You are wrong here though, things always change, always revert. History is a cycle(as opposed to the marxist or neo-conservative interpretation of the human experience as a progression), neither is the human experience stagnant.

Feminism can only thrive with a modern welfare state(to provide a guaranteed standard of living for women and protect them from the consequences of their actions) and a strong economy that can provide them with money independent of a man. Our debt based monetary system will eventually collapse, and with it, Feminism.

 

[Howey]

Ok, so lets accept the left's premise homosexuality is genetically predetermined, and there is no environmental component. What if at a future date, we could determine this gene while a fetus is still in the womb. Would those of you on the left support the right of a woman to abort her gay fetus?

Hmm...selective eugenics. Nice work there, Adolph!

 

[JoeB131]

Now the scourge of illegitimacy is criminality and poverty.

Uh, no, those are the scourges of CAPITALISM.

The correct answer is CAPITALISM.

 

[Iceman]

Ok, so lets accept the left's premise homosexuality is genetically predetermined, and there is no environmental component. What if at a future date, we could determine this gene while a fetus is still in the womb. Would those of you on the left support the right of a woman to abort her gay fetus?

Hmm...selective eugenics. Nice work there, Adolph!

So you oppose abortion all together or just of gay fetuses?

 

[koshergrl]

Now the scourge of illegitimacy is criminality and poverty.

Uh, no, those are the scourges of CAPITALISM.

The correct answer is CAPITALISM.

Lying again, creepy.

 

[JoeB131]

Now the scourge of illegitimacy is criminality and poverty.

Uh, no, those are the scourges of CAPITALISM.

The correct answer is CAPITALISM.

Lying again, creepy.

Then please explain why other advanced social democracies have the same levels of "Illegitimacy" and oddly enough, they don't have the poverty or crime we have?

Thanks.

 

[JoeB131]

Scandanavian countries have a 60% illegitimacy rate...

No crime, little poverty...

Explain that one, Koshergirl.

What they do have, is outright socialism.

 

[Iceman]

Uh, no, those are the scourges of CAPITALISM.

The correct answer is CAPITALISM.

Lying again, creepy.

Then please explain why other advanced social democracies have the same levels of "Illegitimacy" and oddly enough, they don't have the poverty or crime we have?

Thanks.

Those societies are Whiter and have stronger welfare states.

 

[Iceman]

They also have higher rates of cohabitation as opposed to marriage. Not exactly the same thing as being born to a single mom without a father around.

 

[koshergrl]

What "advanced social democracies" have the same levels of illegitimacy and lower crime rates?

 

[JoeB131]

Lying again, creepy.

Then please explain why other advanced social democracies have the same levels of "Illegitimacy" and oddly enough, they don't have the poverty or crime we have?

Thanks.

Those societies are Whiter and have stronger welfare states.

But I thought you said the welfare was bad? So how can that be?

You're trying to have it both ways. You are saying on one side the welfare state CAUSES misery and other other that it mitigates misery.

So which is it?

 

[koshergrl]

In case you were wondering..this is the rate of illegitimacy here:

"In mid-1960s America, the nation's out-of-wedlock birth rate (which stood at 7.7 percent at the time) began a rapid and relentless climb across all demographic lines, a climb that would continue unabated until 1994, when the Welfare Reform Act put the brakes on that trend. Today the overall American illegitimacy rate is about 33 percent (26 percent for whites). For blacks, it hovers at near 70 percent—approximately three times the level of black illegitimacy that existed when the War on Poverty began in 1964."

Breakdown of the Black Family, and Its Consequences - Discover the Networks

 

[JoeB131]

They also have higher rates of cohabitation as opposed to marriage. Not exactly the same thing as being born to a single mom without a father around.

Most "Illegitimate" births are to families that co-habitate as well, so that duck won't fly.

Getting married is actually an expensive proposition. The tax laws discourage it, and weddings are very expensive things...

Anyway, love to keep chatting with your nutters, but I have to meet up with my largely dysfuctional (but in a fun way) family for Christmas Eve....

 

[Iceman]

Then please explain why other advanced social democracies have the same levels of "Illegitimacy" and oddly enough, they don't have the poverty or crime we have?

Thanks.

Those societies are Whiter and have stronger welfare states.

But I thought you said the welfare was bad? So how can that be?

You're trying to have it both ways. You are saying on one side the welfare state CAUSES misery and other other that it mitigates misery.

So which is it?

I never said it was bad in of itself. Depends what it goes towards.

I wouldn't mind living in a Scandinavian Welfare state and paying for things like maternity leave, for example.

But yea, like I said before. Many of those children are born to parents who just don't happen to be married, they cohabit. Big difference between what happens here.

Anyways yea, that and they are white societies, that accounts for lower crime and higher social stability.

 

[koshergrl]

They also have higher rates of cohabitation as opposed to marriage. Not exactly the same thing as being born to a single mom without a father around.

Most "Illegitimate" births are to families that co-habitate as well, so that duck won't fly.

Maybe at the time of the birth.

but not long term. And generally, not even at the time of the birth.

 

[Howey]

Ok, so lets accept the left's premise homosexuality is genetically predetermined, and there is no environmental component. What if at a future date, we could determine this gene while a fetus is still in the womb. Would those of you on the left support the right of a woman to abort her gay fetus?

Hmm...selective eugenics. Nice work there, Adolph!

So you oppose abortion all together or just of gay fetuses?

I believe in a woman's right to do what she wants with her body. Destroying gay genetic markers is a right wing homphobic dream.