Absolutely disgusting! US cluster munitions targets civilians in Sevastopol

[JWBooth]

 

[skye]

View attachment 967923

So sad and unnecessary, she was beautiful and with a full life ahead of her! Very depressing

 

[Litwin]

View attachment 967923

Solovyev:"I would wipe Odesa, Mykolaiv, Kharkiv and Kyiv off the map

 

[Litwin]

So sad and unnecessary, she was beautiful and with a full life ahead of her! Very depressing

 

[sparky]

Why not? It was already explained by many authors, like, say, George Orwell. Your freedom is slavery. And, using the conception of doublethinking, we can explain it in at least two different ways: "American freedom to do whatever they want (including support of Neo-nazis in Ukraine and Baltic States) means slavery (inability to make their own decisions) for the rest of the world" if we are talking about American foreign policy. Or, if we are talking about American inner policy, "American freedom is the possibility to solve yourself in the worst kinds of slavery, like drug-addiction".

But what freedom Americans do not possess, is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four.

and yet again, we've a foreigner who thinks he know all about freedom , and how we as Americans apply it globally

while we've sent the best of our best to die in your sh*thole countries, with your shithead dictators to be 'free'

as soon as we hand it all over, and grant you the reigns, you're back to f*cking each other over

there is no saving you, we have no dog in your fight, and you can go kill each other

leave us out, thx

~S~

 

[Zavulon]

and yet again, we've a foreigner who thinks he know all about freedom , and how we as Americans apply it globally

I didn't say, that I know all about American freedom. But, may be, I know enough to compare your conception with the conception of Russian freedom.

while we've sent the best of our best to die in your sh*thole countries, with your shithead dictators to be 'free'

as soon as we hand it all over, and grant you the reigns, you're back to f*cking each other over

there is no saving you, we have no dog in your fight, and you can go kill each other

leave us out, thx

~S~

"We've sent"? Doesn't really sound like an act of will of a truly free person for me. The question here is not about freedom, it's more about limitations of the said freedom. And while Russian limitations are mostly outer, external restrictions (like walls and bars for the prisoner), American limitations are mostly internal. It's unfreedom of a person simultaneously blind, deaf, paralyzed and stupid. And while America sent her sons, Russia unleash them.

 

[forkup]

For starters

https://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/04-april/e0403h.html

View attachment 967694

Thank you. You provided what I asked for. That's one hurdle. Let me then give you, what I consider further hurdles to argue that Russia was right to attack Ukraine on the basis of the justification off possible NATO
membership.

So now we have established that in 2008. Ukraine and NATO were talking about membership. So, first the question becomes. Can that be considered a serious possibility? Or at the very least be considered a serious possibility from the perspective of Russia. Considering 2008 was when it first got proposed and 2022 was when the invasion occurred it seems that the excuse is odd. What exactly changed over those FOURTEEN years to make that possibility so threatening?

Second, why is Ukraine NOT allowed to see to it's security concerns as they see fit but Russia is? Security concerns which are much, much, MUCH, more tangible then the vague notion that NATO threatens Russian security. Since it was RUSSIA not Ukraine who invaded and took territory in 2014 FROM UKRAINE.

Which brings me to hurdle 3. And a hurdle I alluded to. What's the actual threat of NATO? The NATO charter says, and history shows that NATO membership does not provide a blank check for it's members to attack anyone. The only threat NATO poses is to those that DIRECTLY attacks one of it's members.

I

 

[zaangalewa]

You sound like one of those Germans

Do I?

who have not learnt a damn thing from History,

"History" is written mit a little letter in the English language. The German word "Geschichte" - what means by the way also "story" and not hi-story or hysterics - has a big Ltter,.

i hope

You speak with a German about your hope? What do I do wrong, Russian? Putin is no hope. Putin is the death of Russia.

you don't have to learn the hard way because next time Germany may not exist when it's over.

What's totally unimportant for me, Russian. Putin and his criminal gang for sure will not win. If he will die then I will hunt his ghost and hold him into a black hole and will weave out of this spaghetti a bedside rug. Or if I do not have the time to do so then I will make it like my old grandgrand...grandpa Wulfilla the first and will nail his head asides your head over my front door. Or I will sip an ice cream in peace with my grandson.

 

[forkup]

They had been talking about it since 2008, what did you think Russia would do wait for Nato to take over the Russian Sevastopol Naval base after the Coup?

So now we have established that in 2008. Ukraine and NATO were talking about membership. So, first the question becomes. Can that be considered a serious possibility? Or at the very least be considered a serious possibility from the perspective of Russia. Considering 2008 was when it first got proposed and 2022 was when the invasion occurred it seems that the excuse is odd. What exactly changed over those FOURTEEN years to make that possibility so threatening?

Second, why is Ukraine NOT allowed to see to it's security concerns as they see fit but Russia is? Security concerns which are much, much, MUCH, more tangible then the vague notion that NATO threatens Russian security. Since it was RUSSIA not Ukraine who invaded and took territory in 2014 FROM UKRAINE.

Which brings me to hurdle 3. And a hurdle I alluded to. What's the actual threat of NATO. The NATO charter says, and history shows that NATO membership does not provide a blank check for it's members to attack anyone. The only threat NATO poses is to those that DIRECTLY attacks one of it's members.

As for your question. I'm not aware NATO has "taken over" any of the Naval bases of it's members. Are you? You also seems to run in this little problem of linear time.

Russia had ALREADY taken over (in the literal sense) Sevastopol in 2014. I fail to see how that particular problem would prompt an attack in 2022.

 

[forkup]

You sound like one of those Germans who have not learnt a damn thing from History, i hope you don't have to learn the hard way because next time Germany may not exist when it's over.

You sound like one off those French or British diplomats who claimed abandoning Czechoslovakia to the Germans in 1939 would secure "peace in our time", regardless of what the Czechs felt themselves.

 

[Deadstick]

You sound like one off those French or British diplomats who claimed abandoning Czechoslovakia to the Germans in 1939 would secure "peace in our time", regardless of what the Czechs felt themselves.

Well i am not one of them.

 

[forkup]

Well i am not one of them.

You sure? You just followed the same logic?

Russia has the ability to destroy everything. So we better let them have Ukraine. That's your argument right?

 

[Deadstick]

As for your question. I'm not aware NATO has "taken over" any of the Naval bases of it's members. Are you? You also seems to run in this little problem of linear time.

Russia had ALREADY taken over (in the literal sense) Sevastopol in 2014. I fail to see how that particular problem would prompt an attack in 2022.

What changed over those fourteen years? a coup and ever more rabid anti Russian rhetoric from the Nationalists in Kiev, that's what changed.

 

[Deadstick]

You sure? You just followed the same logic?

Russia has the ability to destroy everything. So we better let them have Ukraine. That's your argument right?

No that isn't my argument because that is not what it's about, Russia doesn't want Ukraine they just don't want a Nato and US puppet in Kiev being used as a spear against them, why would Nato in Ukraine be acceptable to Russia, Nato has proved it's a violent organisation used as a weapon by the US and it's vassals.

 

[Deadstick]

As for your question. I'm not aware NATO has "taken over" any of the Naval bases of it's members. Are you? You also seems to run in this little problem of linear time.

Russia had ALREADY taken over (in the literal sense) Sevastopol in 2014. I fail to see how that particular problem would prompt an attack in 2022.

So are you telling me the Coup Regime in Kiev would not have handed that Russian base over to the US and Nato? that was one of the reasons for the coup, Russia took action to prevent it, just like the US would have if their base on Hawaii had been under threat from a Russian or Chinese take over.

 

[forkup]

What changed over those fourteen years? a coup and ever more rabid anti Russian rhetoric from the Nationalists in Kiev, that's what changed.

You are aware that having sovereign territory taken from you and funding an armed rebellion with both men and material in another part. In general tends to piss countries off right?

You are complaining that Ukraine didn't like being invaded. "No shit Sherlock", comes to mind.

And by the way, that doesn't answer why becoming a NATO member alp of a sudden became an acute problem.

 

[Deadstick]

Do I?



"History" is written mit a little letter in the English language. The German word "Geschichte" - what means by the way also "story" and not hi-story or hysterics - has a big Ltter,.



You speak with a German about your hope? What do I do wrong, Russian? Putin is no hope. Putin is the death of Russia.



What's totally unimportant for me, Russian. Putin and his criminal gang for sure will not win. If he will die then I will hunt his ghost and hold him into a black hole and will weave out of this spaghetti a bedside rug. Or if I do not have the time to do so then I will make it like my old grandgrand...grandpa Wulfilla the first and will nail his head asides your head over my front door. Or I will sip an ice cream in peace with my grandson.

What are you barking about?

 

[forkup]

No that isn't my argument because that is not what it's about, Russia doesn't want Ukraine they just don't want a Nato and US puppet in Kiev being used as a spear against them, why would Nato in Ukraine be acceptable to Russia, Nato has proved it's a violent organisation used as a weapon by the US and it's vassals.

NATO isn't a spear. Dozens of wars and regional conflicts of member nations, often without membership support and even outright opposition, not to mention the very plain language of the Charter itself proof that.

The ONLY threat NATO poses is to countries who attack THEM. Not the other way around.

 

[Deadstick]

NATO isn't a spear. Dozens of wars and regional conflicts of member nations, often without membership support and even outright opposition, not to mention the very plain language of the Charter itself proof that.

The ONLY threat NATO poses is to countries who attack THEM. Not the other way around.

So when did the former Yugoslavia attack a Nato Country? when did Libya? Nato is just a foreign legion for the US Imperialists, if you look at the member States most were also members of Hitlers Foreign legions in Europe including the SS.

 

[Deadstick]

You are aware that having sovereign territory taken from you and funding an armed rebellion with both men and material in another part. In general tends to piss countries off right?

You are complaining that Ukraine didn't like being invaded. "No shit Sherlock", comes to mind.

And by the way, that doesn't answer why becoming a NATO member alp of a sudden became an acute problem.

No armed rebellion was funded, after the Donbas refused to accept the elected Government in Ukraine being overthrown with outside help they were attacked by their own army, that's just a fact, policemen and civilians were killed in Mariupol by those Azov goons and Ukrainian military because they refused to go along with the coup.