Adam Smith was a Marxist

[bripat9643]

yes it was very unethical for China to switch to capitalism and prevent another 60 million from slowly starving to death under liberalism!
liberalism is ethical for slowly starving 60 million to death. Its obvious!

Can't we all just get along here?
"What is Capitalism?

"Our understanding of capitalism is incredibly limited. Despite this being the prevailing world economic system, it is not taught until University in the United Kingdom. This means the vast majority of the population have never even had a structured, informed conversation around the mechanics and iterations of capitalism, let alone whether it is ethical or not. People, on the whole, don’t know what it is, what it does, what it means, where it came from or what it replaced."

Is there such a thing as ethical capitalism openDemocracy

You didn't answer my questions: What's unethical about capitalism?

 

[Contumacious]

yes it was very unethical for China to switch to capitalism and prevent another 60 million from slowly starving to death under liberalism!
liberalism is ethical for slowly starving 60 million to death. Its obvious!

Can't we all just get along here?
"What is Capitalism?

"Our understanding of capitalism is incredibly limited. Despite this being the prevailing world economic system, it is not taught until University in the United Kingdom. This means the vast majority of the population have never even had a structured, informed conversation around the mechanics and iterations of capitalism, let alone whether it is ethical or not. People, on the whole, don’t know what it is, what it does, what it means, where it came from or what it replaced."

Is there such a thing as ethical capitalism openDemocracy

Socieconomic system where *******ALL******** the means of production are ****PRIVATELY***** owned , and not subjected to government regulation in any way shape or form.

 

[georgephillip]

Marx and his followers like to call what he did "science," but there's nothing scientific about it. Can you explain what makes it scientific?

"Scientific socialism is the term first used byFriedrich Engels[1] to describe the social-political-economic theory first pioneered by Karl Marx. The purported reason why this socialism is "scientific socialism" (as opposed to "utopian socialism") is because it is based on the scientific method,[dubious – discuss] in that its theories are held to an empirical standard, observations are essential to its development, and these can result in changes and/or falsification of elements of the theory."
Scientific socialism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Contumacious]

Marx and his followers like to call what he did "science," but there's nothing scientific about it. Can you explain what makes it scientific?

"Scientific socialism is the term first used byFriedrich Engels[1] to describe the social-political-economic theory first pioneered by Karl Marx. The purported reason why this socialism is "scientific socialism" (as opposed to "utopian socialism") is because it is based on the scientific method,[dubious – discuss] in that its theories are held to an empirical standard, observations are essential to its development, and these can result in changes and/or falsification of elements of the theory."
Scientific socialism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Would you laugh you ass off if someone introduced the terms

scientific tyranny
scientific enslavement
scientific theft


.

 

[bripat9643]

Marx and his followers like to call what he did "science," but there's nothing scientific about it. Can you explain what makes it scientific?

"Scientific socialism is the term first used byFriedrich Engels[1] to describe the social-political-economic theory first pioneered by Karl Marx. The purported reason why this socialism is "scientific socialism" (as opposed to "utopian socialism") is because it is based on the scientific method,[dubious – discuss] in that its theories are held to an empirical standard, observations are essential to its development, and these can result in changes and/or falsification of elements of the theory."
Scientific socialism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

So what empirical methods did Karl Marx use?

 

[lutraphile]

Adam Smith was a liberal, in the true sense of the world. Right of Marx, but left of most conservative theorists and politicians now.

 

[dblack]

George, why do you suppose rich people are willing to spend so much money on politics?

To receive favorable tax and trade legislation.

And if they couldn't get it? If Congress was prohibited from playing favorites with tax and trade legislation, you think they'd bother?

 

[georgephillip]

Elections are a form of extortion racket where politicians shake down rich people and corporations for protection money. Failure to pay could have serious consequences for those who are delinquent.

That might be true if politicians weren't targeting the same 0.1% of Americans:
"More than a quarter of the nearly $6 billion in contributions from identifiable sources in the last campaign cycle came from just 31,385 individuals, a number equal to one ten-thousandth of the U.S. population."
The Political 1 of the 1 in 2012 - Sunlight Foundation Blog

 

[georgephillip]

And if they couldn't get it? If Congress was prohibited from playing favorites with tax and trade legislation, you think they'd bother?

"Playing favorites" would be hard to justify, wouldn't it? IMHO, there will always be winners and losers with tax and trade policies. What standard would you apply to determine who benefits and who pays?

 

[georgephillip]

yes he sought and failed and thus 120 million human beings slowly starved to death.

Since Marx would not have recognized the Soviet or Chinese experiment as "communism", you're blaming him for crimes he played no part in creating. Maybe you're confusing Marx with Jacob Schiff?

 

[georgephillip]

Capitalism is unethical because

1- it wouldn't let the FCC control the internet

Your solution is to allow corporate giants like Google and Yahoo determine internet policies?

 

[dblack]

And if they couldn't get it? If Congress was prohibited from playing favorites with tax and trade legislation, you think they'd bother?

"Playing favorites" would be hard to justify, wouldn't it? IMHO, there will always be winners and losers with tax and trade policies. What standard would you apply to determine who benefits and who pays?

Well, to begin with, I'd prohibit tax and regulatory policies that are deliberately discriminatory. You're right to point out that you'd never be able to eliminate this sort of corruption, but we shouldn't endorse it. When laws can be shown as obvious violations of equal protection, when they expressly target people or businesses for punishment or reward, the Court should be able to strike them down on that basis.

As it is, using taxation and regulation to manipulate people is par for the course, and that kind of power will always attract avarice.

 

[georgephillip]

Marx and his followers like to call what he did "science," but there's nothing scientific about it. Can you explain what makes it scientific?

"Scientific socialism refers to a method for understanding and predicting social, economic, and material phenomena by examining their historical trends through the use of the scientific method in order to derive probable outcomes and probable future developments.

"It is in contrast to what later socialists referred to as 'utopian socialism'—a method based on establishing seemingly rational propositions for organizing society and convincing others of their rationality and/or desirability.

"It also contrasts with classical liberal notions of natural law, which are grounded in metaphysical notions of morality rather than a dynamic materialist or physicalist conception of the world."
Scientific socialism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

When laws can be shown as obvious violations of equal protection, when they expressly target people or businesses for punishment or reward, the Court should be able to strike them down on that basis.

SCOTUS seems like another institution in dire need of reform. Corporations have achieved their current level of influence primarily through the actions of the Judicial branch as opposed to the congress. At the risk of repeating myself, (again) this seems like another problem US voters can't solve by "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican when they vote.

 

[bripat9643]

Marx and his followers like to call what he did "science," but there's nothing scientific about it. Can you explain what makes it scientific?

"Scientific socialism refers to a method for understanding and predicting social, economic, and material phenomena by examining their historical trends through the use of the scientific method in order to derive probable outcomes and probable future developments.

"It is in contrast to what later socialists referred to as 'utopian socialism'—a method based on establishing seemingly rational propositions for organizing society and convincing others of their rationality and/or desirability.

"It also contrasts with classical liberal notions of natural law, which are grounded in metaphysical notions of morality rather than a dynamic materialist or physicalist conception of the world."
Scientific socialism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Again, all you've done is call it "scientific." You haven't proved that it is scientific. What makes it scientific? Where did Marx use the scientific method?

 

[georgephillip]

You didn't answer my questions: What's unethical about capitalism?

The logic of capitalism produces overexploitation of resources, both natural and human. Consider three co-equal circles our collective future rests upon, economy, society, and nature. Capitalists' pursuit of profit considers economy to be the largest circle enclosing a society with only a peripheral relationship to nature. Hence, good capitalists think nothing of earning short-term profit by selling fresh drinking water to humans living on less than a dollar a day.

 

[georgephillip]

Again, all you've done is call it "scientific." You haven't proved that it is scientific. What makes it scientific? Where did Marx use the scientific method?

Did you read the link?

 

[bripat9643]

Again, all you've done is call it "scientific." You haven't proved that it is scientific. What makes it scientific? Where did Marx use the scientific method?

Did you read the link?

Please quote the material that shows Marx's method was "scientific."

 

[georgephillip]

Please quote the material that shows Marx's method was "scientific."

"Scientific socialists view social and political developments as being largely determined by economic conditions as opposed to ideas in contrast to utopian socialists and classical liberals, and thus believe that social relations and notions of morality are context-based relative to their specific stage of economic development. Therefore as economic systems, socialism and capitalism are not social constructs that can be established at any time based on the subjective will and desires of the population, but instead are products of social evolution. An example of this was the advent of agriculture which enabled human communities to produce a surplus; this change in material and economic development led to a change in social relations and rendered the old form of social organization based on subsistence-living obsolete and a hindrance to further material progress. Changing economic conditions necessitated a change in social organization."
Read the damn link, Fool

Scientific socialism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[bripat9643]

Please quote the material that shows Marx's method was "scientific."

"Scientific socialists view social and political developments as being largely determined by economic conditions as opposed to ideas in contrast to utopian socialists and classical liberals, and thus believe that social relations and notions of morality are context-based relative to their specific stage of economic development. Therefore as economic systems, socialism and capitalism are not social constructs that can be established at any time based on the subjective will and desires of the population, but instead are products of social evolution. An example of this was the advent of agriculture which enabled human communities to produce a surplus; this change in material and economic development led to a change in social relations and rendered the old form of social organization based on subsistence-living obsolete and a hindrance to further material progress. Changing economic conditions necessitated a change in social organization."
Read the damn link, Fool

Scientific socialism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

That paragraph doesn't describe any use of the scientific method by Karl Marx. All it does is state the opinion of people who call their brand of socialism "scientific."