Affordable care that isn’t affordable

[OnePercenter]

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

Answer the question! Do you as a taxpayer want to be responsible for others liability?

 

[dblack]

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

Answer the question! Do you as a taxpayer want to be responsible for others liability?

Fuck you. The liability of others isn't on the taxpayer unless your horseshit laws make it so. Suck a tailpipe.

 

[OnePercenter]

Fuck you. The liability of others isn't on the taxpayer unless your horseshit laws make it so. Suck a tailpipe.

If a person without healthcare gets sick, who pays?

 

[dblack]

Fuck you. The liability of others isn't on the taxpayer unless your horseshit laws make it so. Suck a tailpipe.

If a person without healthcare gets sick, who pays?

We've been over this. If you don't like, EMTALA, it can be repealed.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Yep. What has you confused?

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

Lots. You wanna list?

It might help.

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

Yes.

I've also read thousands of posts by self-styled libertarians who apparently don't read each other's posts, unless they're about guns.

It's fun when y'all start nitpicking each other.

Will you be quoting Rand anytime soon?

He asked if you wanted a list.

You said yes.

You got the list.

And this is your response ?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Fuck you. The liability of others isn't on the taxpayer unless your horseshit laws make it so. Suck a tailpipe.

If a person without healthcare gets sick, who pays?

A. You are asking if a person without health insurance ?

B. Nobody pays for healthcare someone did not get.

C. If they are sick and have no health insurance, they pay out of pocket.

 

[Arianrhod]

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

Lots. You wanna list?

It might help.

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

Yes.

I've also read thousands of posts by self-styled libertarians who apparently don't read each other's posts, unless they're about guns.

It's fun when y'all start nitpicking each other.

Will you be quoting Rand anytime soon?

He asked if you wanted a list.

You said yes.

You got the list.

And this is your response ?

Yes.

 

[Arianrhod]

Fuck you. The liability of others isn't on the taxpayer unless your horseshit laws make it so. Suck a tailpipe.

If a person without healthcare gets sick, who pays?

A. You are asking if a person without health insurance ?

B. Nobody pays for healthcare someone did not get.

C. If they are sick and have no health insurance, they pay out of pocket.

Because everyone's got $7,500-30,000 handy to treat a broken leg.

 

[dblack]

Fuck you. The liability of others isn't on the taxpayer unless your horseshit laws make it so. Suck a tailpipe.

If a person without healthcare gets sick, who pays?

A. You are asking if a person without health insurance ?

B. Nobody pays for healthcare someone did not get.

C. If they are sick and have no health insurance, they pay out of pocket.

Because everyone's got $7,500-30,000 handy to treat a broken leg.

There's no good reason for it to cost that much, and the reasons that are making it so expensive need to be addressed, but you seem to be of the opinion that a person shouldn't be expected to pay for such an expense. Why not?

 

[Arianrhod]

Fuck you. The liability of others isn't on the taxpayer unless your horseshit laws make it so. Suck a tailpipe.

If a person without healthcare gets sick, who pays?

A. You are asking if a person without health insurance ?

B. Nobody pays for healthcare someone did not get.

C. If they are sick and have no health insurance, they pay out of pocket.

Because everyone's got $7,500-30,000 handy to treat a broken leg.

There's no good reason for it to cost that much, and the reasons that are making it so expensive need to be addressed, but you seem to be of the opinion that a person shouldn't be expected to pay for such an expense. Why not?

Some of the expenses are administrative and could be reduced, I agree. Then there's the nonsense of why a pain med costs $30 per pill in the hospital and about 3 cents when you buy a bottle of them in your drug store. Again, these are examples of where the insurer is now motivated to chat with the hospital and the pharma company and say "Seriously? Let's lower those prices, guys, or we're going to give you a bad review" - i.e., downward pressure on costs. But it's not going to happen overnight.

As for the skill involved in setting a complex proximal femur fracture, it's not something you want to trust to just anybody.

And a broken leg is the example I use for the simple minds who post shit like "Duh, libruls must be sickly. I never go to the doctor and I'm fine."

Appendectomy: $33,000.

You want to trust your brother-in-law to hack out your appendix? Surgery is skilled labor.

Would you argue your auto mechanic should fix your transmission for minimum wage?

 

[dblack]

Fuck you. The liability of others isn't on the taxpayer unless your horseshit laws make it so. Suck a tailpipe.

If a person without healthcare gets sick, who pays?

A. You are asking if a person without health insurance ?

B. Nobody pays for healthcare someone did not get.

C. If they are sick and have no health insurance, they pay out of pocket.

Because everyone's got $7,500-30,000 handy to treat a broken leg.

There's no good reason for it to cost that much, and the reasons that are making it so expensive need to be addressed, but you seem to be of the opinion that a person shouldn't be expected to pay for such an expense. Why not?

Some of the expenses are administrative and could be reduced, I agree. Then there's the nonsense of why a pain med costs $30 per pill in the hospital and about 3 cents when you buy a bottle of them in your drug store. Again, these are examples of where the insurer is now motivated to chat with the hospital and the pharma company and say "Seriously? Let's lower those prices, guys, or we're going to give you a bad review" - i.e., downward pressure on costs. But it's not going to happen overnight.

As for the skill involved in setting a complex proximal femur fracture, it's not something you want to trust to just anybody.

And a broken leg is the example I use for the simple minds who post shit like "Duh, libruls must be sickly. I never go to the doctor and I'm fine."

Appendectomy: $33,000.

You want to trust your brother-in-law to hack out your appendix? Surgery is skilled labor.

Would you argue your auto mechanic should fix your transmission for minimum wage?

You skipped over my question. Do you think people should be expected to pay for their own healthcare expenses? If someone can afford to buy a new car for $30k, why shouldn't they be expected to pay for an appendectomy?

 

[Arianrhod]

If a person without healthcare gets sick, who pays?

A. You are asking if a person without health insurance ?

B. Nobody pays for healthcare someone did not get.

C. If they are sick and have no health insurance, they pay out of pocket.

Because everyone's got $7,500-30,000 handy to treat a broken leg.

There's no good reason for it to cost that much, and the reasons that are making it so expensive need to be addressed, but you seem to be of the opinion that a person shouldn't be expected to pay for such an expense. Why not?

Some of the expenses are administrative and could be reduced, I agree. Then there's the nonsense of why a pain med costs $30 per pill in the hospital and about 3 cents when you buy a bottle of them in your drug store. Again, these are examples of where the insurer is now motivated to chat with the hospital and the pharma company and say "Seriously? Let's lower those prices, guys, or we're going to give you a bad review" - i.e., downward pressure on costs. But it's not going to happen overnight.

As for the skill involved in setting a complex proximal femur fracture, it's not something you want to trust to just anybody.

And a broken leg is the example I use for the simple minds who post shit like "Duh, libruls must be sickly. I never go to the doctor and I'm fine."

Appendectomy: $33,000.

You want to trust your brother-in-law to hack out your appendix? Surgery is skilled labor.

Would you argue your auto mechanic should fix your transmission for minimum wage?

You skipped over my question. Do you think people should be expected to pay for their own healthcare expenses? If someone can afford to buy a new car for $30k, why shouldn't the be expected to pay for an appendectomy?

It's not a question I can answer in real-life terms. Tell me how you think anyone who isn't wealthy "should" pay for lifelong treatment of multiple sclerosis at $57,500 per year.

 

[dblack]

A. You are asking if a person without health insurance ?

B. Nobody pays for healthcare someone did not get.

C. If they are sick and have no health insurance, they pay out of pocket.

Because everyone's got $7,500-30,000 handy to treat a broken leg.

There's no good reason for it to cost that much, and the reasons that are making it so expensive need to be addressed, but you seem to be of the opinion that a person shouldn't be expected to pay for such an expense. Why not?

Some of the expenses are administrative and could be reduced, I agree. Then there's the nonsense of why a pain med costs $30 per pill in the hospital and about 3 cents when you buy a bottle of them in your drug store. Again, these are examples of where the insurer is now motivated to chat with the hospital and the pharma company and say "Seriously? Let's lower those prices, guys, or we're going to give you a bad review" - i.e., downward pressure on costs. But it's not going to happen overnight.

As for the skill involved in setting a complex proximal femur fracture, it's not something you want to trust to just anybody.

And a broken leg is the example I use for the simple minds who post shit like "Duh, libruls must be sickly. I never go to the doctor and I'm fine."

Appendectomy: $33,000.

You want to trust your brother-in-law to hack out your appendix? Surgery is skilled labor.

Would you argue your auto mechanic should fix your transmission for minimum wage?

You skipped over my question. Do you think people should be expected to pay for their own healthcare expenses? If someone can afford to buy a new car for $30k, why shouldn't the be expected to pay for an appendectomy?

It's not a question I can answer in real-life terms. Tell me how you think anyone who isn't wealthy "should" pay for lifelong treatment of multiple sclerosis at $57,500 per year.

You're missing my point. I'm not talking about people who can't afford health care. If people can afford health care, why is it unreasonable to expect them to pay for it?

 

[Arianrhod]

Because everyone's got $7,500-30,000 handy to treat a broken leg.

There's no good reason for it to cost that much, and the reasons that are making it so expensive need to be addressed, but you seem to be of the opinion that a person shouldn't be expected to pay for such an expense. Why not?

Some of the expenses are administrative and could be reduced, I agree. Then there's the nonsense of why a pain med costs $30 per pill in the hospital and about 3 cents when you buy a bottle of them in your drug store. Again, these are examples of where the insurer is now motivated to chat with the hospital and the pharma company and say "Seriously? Let's lower those prices, guys, or we're going to give you a bad review" - i.e., downward pressure on costs. But it's not going to happen overnight.

As for the skill involved in setting a complex proximal femur fracture, it's not something you want to trust to just anybody.

And a broken leg is the example I use for the simple minds who post shit like "Duh, libruls must be sickly. I never go to the doctor and I'm fine."

Appendectomy: $33,000.

You want to trust your brother-in-law to hack out your appendix? Surgery is skilled labor.

Would you argue your auto mechanic should fix your transmission for minimum wage?

You skipped over my question. Do you think people should be expected to pay for their own healthcare expenses? If someone can afford to buy a new car for $30k, why shouldn't the be expected to pay for an appendectomy?

It's not a question I can answer in real-life terms. Tell me how you think anyone who isn't wealthy "should" pay for lifelong treatment of multiple sclerosis at $57,500 per year.

You're missing my point. I'm not talking about people who can't afford health care. If people can afford health care, why is in unreasonable to expect them to pay for it?

How would you make that work? Set up some sort of bureaucracy to examine everyone's net worth and divide them into "those who can pay" and "those who can't"? Then the latter get insurance and the former have their bank accounts garnished?

What happens if "those who can pay" lose their jobs? Shunt them over to the insurance category? What if someone in the "those who can't" category wins the lottery? Shunt them over to the other group?

Sounds like an awful lot of paperwork for what reason, exactly? Some sense of "fairness"?

Would you apply that to other forms of insurance as well?

 

[dblack]

There's no good reason for it to cost that much, and the reasons that are making it so expensive need to be addressed, but you seem to be of the opinion that a person shouldn't be expected to pay for such an expense. Why not?

Some of the expenses are administrative and could be reduced, I agree. Then there's the nonsense of why a pain med costs $30 per pill in the hospital and about 3 cents when you buy a bottle of them in your drug store. Again, these are examples of where the insurer is now motivated to chat with the hospital and the pharma company and say "Seriously? Let's lower those prices, guys, or we're going to give you a bad review" - i.e., downward pressure on costs. But it's not going to happen overnight.

As for the skill involved in setting a complex proximal femur fracture, it's not something you want to trust to just anybody.

And a broken leg is the example I use for the simple minds who post shit like "Duh, libruls must be sickly. I never go to the doctor and I'm fine."

Appendectomy: $33,000.

You want to trust your brother-in-law to hack out your appendix? Surgery is skilled labor.

Would you argue your auto mechanic should fix your transmission for minimum wage?

You skipped over my question. Do you think people should be expected to pay for their own healthcare expenses? If someone can afford to buy a new car for $30k, why shouldn't the be expected to pay for an appendectomy?

It's not a question I can answer in real-life terms. Tell me how you think anyone who isn't wealthy "should" pay for lifelong treatment of multiple sclerosis at $57,500 per year.

You're missing my point. I'm not talking about people who can't afford health care. If people can afford health care, why is in unreasonable to expect them to pay for it?

How would you make that work? Set up some sort of bureaucracy to examine everyone's net worth and divide them into "those who can pay" and "those who can't"? Then the latter get insurance and the former have their bank accounts garnished?

What happens if "those who can pay" lose their jobs? Shunt them over to the insurance category?

Sounds like an awful lot of paperwork for what reason, exactly? Some sense of "fairness"?

Would you apply that to other forms of insurance as well?

Huh? It would 'work' the way the rest of life's expenses do. How do people buy cars? Houses? Furniture and appliances? That's the ridiculous premise at heart of ACA, that we need to concoct some 'system' for people to pay for health care. We don't. Most of us can afford most of the health care we need.

 

[Arianrhod]

Huh? It would 'work' the way the rest of life's expenses do. How do people buy cars? Houses? Furniture and appliances? That's the ridiculous premise at heart of ACA, that we need to concoct some 'system' for people to pay for health care. We don't. Most of us can afford most of the health care we need.

No, the ridiculous premise is that your health is equivalent to buying a house or a car.

 

[dblack]

Huh? It would 'work' the way the rest of life's expenses do. How do people buy cars? Houses? Furniture and appliances? That's the ridiculous premise at heart of ACA, that we need to concoct some 'system' for people to pay for health care. We don't. Most of us can afford most of the health care we need.

No, the ridiculous premise is that your health is equivalent to buying a house or a car.

? In terms of financial responsibility, how is it any different? Again, why shouldn't a person be expect to pay for their own health care expenses? Is that what you're saying, that they shouldn't?

 

[Arianrhod]

Huh? It would 'work' the way the rest of life's expenses do. How do people buy cars? Houses? Furniture and appliances? That's the ridiculous premise at heart of ACA, that we need to concoct some 'system' for people to pay for health care. We don't. Most of us can afford most of the health care we need.

No, the ridiculous premise is that your health is equivalent to buying a house or a car.

? In terms of financial responsibility, how is it any different? Again, why shouldn't a person be expect to pay for their own health care expenses? Is that what you're saying, that they shouldn't?

Average middle-class parents have a child who's born with cerebral palsy. Lifetime cost of care for that child: $921,000. How would you propose they pay for it?

 

[dblack]

Huh? It would 'work' the way the rest of life's expenses do. How do people buy cars? Houses? Furniture and appliances? That's the ridiculous premise at heart of ACA, that we need to concoct some 'system' for people to pay for health care. We don't. Most of us can afford most of the health care we need.

No, the ridiculous premise is that your health is equivalent to buying a house or a car.

? In terms of financial responsibility, how is it any different? Again, why shouldn't a person be expect to pay for their own health care expenses? Is that what you're saying, that they shouldn't?

Average middle-class parents have a child who's born with cerebral palsy. Lifetime cost of care for that child: $921,000. How would you propose they pay for it?

Again, I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm trying to get a handle on your basic premise here. Setting aside (for the moment) the extremes and end-of-life care, do you think people should be responsible for paying for their health care? I'm not trying to trick you anything, I just want to know what we're talking about.

 

[Arianrhod]

Huh? It would 'work' the way the rest of life's expenses do. How do people buy cars? Houses? Furniture and appliances? That's the ridiculous premise at heart of ACA, that we need to concoct some 'system' for people to pay for health care. We don't. Most of us can afford most of the health care we need.

No, the ridiculous premise is that your health is equivalent to buying a house or a car.

? In terms of financial responsibility, how is it any different? Again, why shouldn't a person be expect to pay for their own health care expenses? Is that what you're saying, that they shouldn't?

Average middle-class parents have a child who's born with cerebral palsy. Lifetime cost of care for that child: $921,000. How would you propose they pay for it?

Again, I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm trying to get a handle on your basic premise here. Setting aside (for the moment) the extremes and end-of-life care, do you think people should be responsible for paying for their health care? I'm not trying to trick you anything, I just want to know what we're talking about.

People who have health insurance are paying premiums. That's part of paying for their own health care.