After The Public Schools Collapse--What Then?

[SweetSue92]

Conservatives love these "accountability" measures. When they're tied to standardized tests they are laughable. They are generally laughable when tied to humans, but whatever.I often compare them to driver education schools. How bout we did that with driver's training? Let's say we held driver instructor's "accountable" for how their students did on the road. They would correctly cite all kinds of extenuating circumstances, not the least of which is the personal accountability of the driver, not JUST how he/she was taught.But no latitude is given teachers. If the kids aren't producing, it's all on us. Parenting, socioeconomic factors, nothing else comes into play. Those kids are widgets and THEY WILL PRODUCE

`
I support the teachers. They went to school to learn how to teach, not play nanny, personal counselor, moral instructor, diaper changer, socio-ethical judge, behavior modifier, etc. The good teachers have for the most part, fled the urban public school insanity.
`

I would like to come back to this--first, teachers appreciate this probably more than you could know.

Secondly, if you teach elementary as I do, we accept and don't mind that some of our job comes with teaching young children a LOT of things. I do not like to overlay my specific moral beliefs on other people's children--that is not my right. I'm just talking about the basics of a peaceful society: don't hit your classmates, use words instead. Share your things if you can. Say polite words. Etc. To be honest very few parents have a problem with this and most appreciate when we reinforce these teachings at school.

It's when parents expect that WE are their children's sole moral teachers that the issues get big. No matter how much I love my students, I cannot be their parent. It's just not my role.

 

[initforme]

Until you crybabies understand that unless the family is fixed nothing changes....nothing will change. Low IQ folk blame unions and other such things. A popular attitude is heck 20 dollars per hour is a great wage. Pathetic.

 

[initforme]

Workin in da factory is good job...gotta love it.

 

[Unkotare]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

I don’t have solutions other than imposing discipline. Without discipline in the classroom, who would want to be a teacher?

What does “discipline” look like to you?

 

[deanrd]

It all depends on what states you're in.

Democrats and Liberals will never let the education the rest of the world finds the best in the world to fall apart.

Republicans in Red States don't really see a need for education beyond sixth grade.

Most Republicans Think Colleges Are Bad for the Country. Why?

Most Republicans Think College Is Ruining America

Pew Research Center: Republicans say college bad for U.S.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

Our people have alternatives in place. And it's very popular among conservative families in our circles. RonPaulCurriculum.com

Dunno what the rest of society is gonna do, not my business really, parents can school their kids however they choose.

 

[Natural Citizen]

End of the day, we can talk about it or we can be about it. Pick one. The latter is more original, my two cents.

 

[Unkotare]

Good parents will always find a way to educate their children.

It seems the fastest growing sector in homeschooling is in the Hispanic community.

Hispanic students now make up more than a quarter of the U.S. homeschooling population — a figure of 26 percent that’s up from 16 percent in 2012 and 5.3 percent back in 2003, according to data from the National Household Education Surveys Program (NHES).

The New Face of U.S. Homeschooling Is Hispanic

Of course, GOOD parents will. Many parents are not good parents. Many parents are single parents and need to be at work during the day. Many parents need to work, period, because it's harder to make a single income work even if the parents are married.

I'm saying no public schools. What do we do with all those children who don't have good parents?

I'm not saying it will come to this. In America, very few prognostications of disaster actually come to pass. We are, if anything, a practical and moderate people. Since public schools in the US are locally funded, the schools most at risk are those in large cities, where the cost of providing basic education is much higher.

However, in a worse case scenario, where big cities public school systems collapse, it could lead to a growing class gap in the US, something we've never experienced to any degree as wide as England or Europe.

However, in this case, the gap isn't based so much on ethnicity or heritage, but on parental responsibility. A class structure based on personal responsibility could be an eminently desirable outcome.

We are already there. The class gap already exists. Few students in poor inner city districts get a decent education. This has been true for decades.

That’s just not true.

 

[Oldstyle]

teachers / union workers have been bashed and demeaned by right wingers for quite a while now.... who the heck would want their low paying job, with that kind of abuse and belittling?

The teacher's unions have been "bashed" because they cared more about their members and their political agendas than they did about the kids they were supposed to be educating!

 

[Oldstyle]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

I don’t have solutions other than imposing discipline. Without discipline in the classroom, who would want to be a teacher?

I taught for a brief period some thirty years ago...couldn't stand the culture then...and really would have hated it now. The inmates run the asylums now and they know it!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The biggest problem public schools face is reckless, irresponsible, and wrongheaded policies advocated for by conservative politicians – the right’s unwarranted hostility toward public schools poses the most significant threat to public education.

 

[SweetSue92]

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

Our people have alternatives in place. And it's very popular among conservative families in our circles. RonPaulCurriculum.com

Dunno what the rest of society is gonna do, not my business really, parents can school their kids however they choose.

I looked at that curriculum and it's hogwash.

 

[SweetSue92]

teachers / union workers have been bashed and demeaned by right wingers for quite a while now.... who the heck would want their low paying job, with that kind of abuse and belittling?

The teacher's unions have been "bashed" because they cared more about their members and their political agendas than they did about the kids they were supposed to be educating!

That is one big reason I do not belong anymore. There are others--chiefly, they support abortion, which is abhorrent.

 

[SweetSue92]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The biggest problem public schools face is reckless, irresponsible, and wrongheaded policies advocated for by conservative politicians – the right’s unwarranted hostility toward public schools poses the most significant threat to public education.

Entirely too simplistic. Both political parties have shortcomings where education is concerned. Believe me--I've been doing this through many Democratic and Republican administrations at the federal and state level.

 

[sparky]

Is there any viable avenue?

~S~

 

[RodISHI]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

Surely they have test that must be passed in order to be a teacher don't they? Just because they don't have a college degree does not mean someone doesn't have the ability to teach what they know. My brother two years older than I taught me everything he learned at school when we were younger. When I was in 7th grade and very bored a friend 11th grade asked in if I knew Algebra as I watched her doing her homework. She showed me what it was and it all seemed pretty simple so she had me do the same work she was doing. That was the beauty of one room schools where all ages attended from the same area. Bigger is not always better and to centralize any government agency is not always what is going to work the best. All communities have little differences and needs. Locally it doesn't cost near as much to rent as it does in Des Moines but the school administrator makes the same as someone in Des Moines. Smaller government schools and small privatization to start out may be the best answer. That same theory goes with privatization bigger is not always better as the quality tends to become lax once an organization gets to big.

 

[JoeB131]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

Actually pay teachers a decent amount of money... that's how you solve the problem.

See, that was simple.

 

[RodISHI]

Rates of high school graduation have been rising steadily in the post war era. At the turn of the last century, only 7% of Americans were high school graduates. On the cusp of World War II, only half of Americans had a high school diploma.
By, the '60s, that rate was up to 75% and the most recent DOE figures shows high school graduation rates at an all-time-high of almost 85%.

Son is reported to have a high school diploma yet he did not complete several years; fact wasn't even in the area and never went to the first day much less the following ones. He almost missed a job because of that. He told the prospective employer, "Look if I had a diploma why would I lie and say I didn't graduate?"

The schools get paid per student listed not on success of the educator or education received.

 

[SweetSue92]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

Actually pay teachers a decent amount of money... that's how you solve the problem.

See, that was simple.

Sure, that's always the "simple" liberal solution. Now you have the sell the population on massive tax increases. Not so simple after all.

 

[SweetSue92]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

Surely they have test that must be passed in order to be a teacher don't they? Just because they don't have a college degree does not mean someone doesn't have the ability to teach what they know. My brother two years older than I taught me everything he learned at school when we were younger. When I was in 7th grade and very bored a friend 11th grade asked in if I knew Algebra as I watched her doing her homework. She showed me what it was and it all seemed pretty simple so she had me do the same work she was doing. That was the beauty of one room schools where all ages attended from the same area. Bigger is not always better and to centralize any government agency is not always what is going to work the best. All communities have little differences and needs. Locally it doesn't cost near as much to rent as it does in Des Moines but the school administrator makes the same as someone in Des Moines. Smaller government schools and small privatization to start out may be the best answer. That same theory goes with privatization bigger is not always better as the quality tends to become lax once an organization gets to big.

It's not the test that really makes the difference--it's being in the schools, learning from teachers, student teaching, and being mentored. I mean yes, you should know your content area. But there is much, much more to being a teacher than simply knowing the material. Knowing how to TEACH the material--and how to teach in general--is an entirely different skill and, really, art form.