Alien Life? You better hope God exists!

[sealybobo]

No I can't wrap my mind around it. You're saying unless a god put the moon just right and wiped out the dinosaurs for us INTENTIONALLY that it would be impossible otherwise for intelligent life to exist. I think this is ignorant to think that it doesn't just happen naturally especially when it's looking more and more like life used to be on Mars and Venue and there may even be living things in Europa.

Bottom line is we know so little about other stars and the history of other planets even within our own solar system that it is foolish to conclude that it doesn't happen elsewhere. And to think that it can only happen if a god does it? I don't even know what to say to that. Again here is where you think a god POOFed things into the way they are. Just nonsense. Do you want me to take this seriously? I can't. Because what you are saying is you believe life on earth could only have happened it god made it happen. You can't even prove this god exists and here you are giving it credit for how life formed on earth?

Of course then he isn't perfect....

Before we get into whether a spiritual energy force is (by your definition) "perfect" we need to unpack what you have stated thus far. First of all, I've not said there is no living thing elsewhere in our universe. No conclusion has been made on my part, yet you continue to insist this is my argument. I really wish you'd pay attention but I fear it's a mental condition you suffer from. So, I'll just keep repeating myself to correct you every time you misstate something I've said.

As for life on Mars or Venus, show me the fossils. If you can't provide evidence, then what you have is a faith-based belief, and that's fine but we're going to be honest about that. The truth of the matter is, life on Earth is all the evidence of life we have. There is evidence there COULD be life elsewhere, but we've not discovered it yet. Until we do, it is a faith-based belief that we MAY.

Finally.... Let's get to this "doesn't happen naturally" statement. I never said life doesn't happen naturally. I maintain that it's the result of something beyond physical nature but that doesn't mean it's not natural. I believe in a spiritual nature that you don't accept. It's as much a part of overall nature as physics and chemistry.

My belief is rooted in logic and reason. Physical nature cannot have created itself. So it either always existed, making it the very definition of divinity (God), or something outside of physical nature created it (God). Or.... there is the possibility that nothing exists and reality is an illusion. But IF something does exist in reality, then something ultimately "POOFED" it into existence.

Now... I don't know how life would work on another planetary body because we've never found any to study. All I can go by is how life works here on Earth. Best I can tell, there are very intricate and detailed systems of life with cycles and symbiotic relationships with other life, etc. Biogenesis remains true, life comes from life. Evolution happens but it also relies on significant cycles, seasons, tides, atmospheric pressure, electromagnetic field, gravitational force, etc. Take those parameters away and there is no evidence evolution could happen or that life could even survive.

You’d rather a junk theory than no theory at all.

 

[sealybobo]

I constantly hear the speculations over the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in our universe from people who completely dismiss any possibility of a Creator God. I find this extraordinary to say the least. I know this thread will spark a contentious debate but I believe it's one well worth exploring. This, of course, is simply a matter of philosophy, which is why I chose the Religion and Ethics forum instead of Science and Technology. We have no evidence life exists anywhere but planet Earth.

I would like to set aside the various arguments for religious philosophies and focus on the aspects of logic and reason in examining the question at hand. Does intelligent life exist elsewhere? The primary argument to conclude that it likely does, relies on the sheer number of stars and planets. Because there are trillions of stars and each one is likely to have a rocky planet in a zone compatible for conditions of life, some will assume the possibility is very likely. I would like to disabuse you of this notion.

First of all, we have to consider that intelligent life on this planet is the result of many circumstances over the course of 4.5 billion years, if we are to believe the modern scientific theories regarding evolution, etc. We'll stick with the current scientific parameters as opposed to quirky young earth creationist dogma, and let's see how this works out.

We don't know how life originated. Whatever happened was extremely unusual and rare because it doesn't seem to be happening anymore and there is no evidence of it happening anywhere else. But let's take for granted that some mysterious combinations in the forces of physics and nature combined at the perfect place and time to originate life on Earth. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet may have contributed in some way, but they certainly contributed to the "evolution" of life once it had originated. Our wobbly orbit, caused by a careening body which formed our Moon, which fell into perfect geosynchronous orbit and caused tides and seasons to happen... all of which tremendously contribute to the sustainability of life and life cycles. The presence of abundant water in liquid form. A molten iron-nickel core which gives us a protective magnetic field. Atmospheric pressure which prevents our liquid source of water from evaporating into space. And dozens of other things which contribute to an environment conducive to life in general.

Logically, when we begin to narrow down the billions of possible planetary candidates which could even support life, the odds become exponentially less and less with each of these criteria applied. Okay, so maybe one in a billion planets could support life? That still means there is a good possibility it might exist elsewhere. But what form does it take? All we have to go by is what data we have here on Earth.

Nature, left to it's own evolution, produced a planet teaming with dinosaurs. Big giant lizards and flying reptiles... nothing approaching intelligent life. It took a rare cosmic event, supposedly an asteroid striking the planet and wiping out the dinosaurs but not wiping out all life forms. From there, the reemerging life spawned mammals which gave rise to primates and then humans. So now we have at least two distinct cosmic events of interaction, the moon collision and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, which had to happen at a precise point in time for there to be any form of intelligent life on Earth. And that is if you don't count whatever cosmic phenomenon gave us all the water while no other planets around us seemed to get any.

Setting aside religion, at some point, don't you have to consider the number of miraculous events which had to happen as they did, for intelligent life to exist here? What would be the odds of those same events happening elsewhere? I believe it is all but impossible that another intelligent life form exists elsewhere unless there is a Creator. A force beyond the physical which intelligently set into motion the precise events and phenomenon which had to occur for intelligent life to emerge.

I just watched a YouTube documentary on the number of galaxies and stars that are in our observable universe there are more galaxies then you can possibly imagine that means there are more solar systems and you can possibly imagine and to think that we are the only intelligent life in that number of galaxies is ridiculous you should be ashamed of yourself

 

[sealybobo]

I don't have a problem with the existence of a GOD, it's people's imaginary artificial fictional dogmatic interpretations of GOD I have a problem with. Religion is made by man. If god is real, well, it seems moot.

Anyone who claims to have the way is a liar. Islam is the perfect example of what’s wrong with religion. Before Islam Baghdad was the science and math center of the universe. Islam taught that math was the devil and all that knowledge and culture went away in exchange for god.

The more I learn the less I like god

 

[MaryL]

I don't have a problem with the existence of a GOD, it's people's imaginary artificial fictional dogmatic interpretations of GOD I have a problem with. Religion is made by man. If god is real, well, it seems moot.

Anyone who claims to have the way is a liar. Islam is the perfect example of what’s wrong with religion. Before Islam Baghdad was the science and math center of the universe. Islam taught that math was the devil and all that knowledge and culture went away in exchange for god.

The more I learn the less I like god

For years, Arabs where the center of learning and science, that's true. Algebra to Aldebaran. But they lost it, they withdrew and then they collapsed into religious backwaters and forbade progressive thought, that's the fault of any culture. The west surpassed them, and they seem rather jealous. We put a man on the moon, they sat on their laurels. And got surpassed.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't have a problem with the existence of a GOD, it's people's imaginary artificial fictional dogmatic interpretations of GOD I have a problem with. Religion is made by man. If god is real, well, it seems moot.

Anyone who claims to have the way is a liar. Islam is the perfect example of what’s wrong with religion. Before Islam Baghdad was the science and math center of the universe. Islam taught that math was the devil and all that knowledge and culture went away in exchange for god.

The more I learn the less I like god

For years, Arabs where the center of learning and science, that's true. Algebra to Aldebaran. But they lost it, they withdrew and then they collapsed into religious backwaters and forbade progressive thought, that's the fault of any culture. The west surpassed them, and they seem rather jealous. We put a man on the moon, they sat on their laurels. And got surpassed.

Billions of Muslims only 25 million Jews. 25% of Nobel prize winners are Jews only 0.05% Muslims and that guy was from pakistan

 

[sealybobo]

I don't have a problem with the existence of a GOD, it's people's imaginary artificial fictional dogmatic interpretations of GOD I have a problem with. Religion is made by man. If god is real, well, it seems moot.

Anyone who claims to have the way is a liar. Islam is the perfect example of what’s wrong with religion. Before Islam Baghdad was the science and math center of the universe. Islam taught that math was the devil and all that knowledge and culture went away in exchange for god.

The more I learn the less I like god

For years, Arabs where the center of learning and science, that's true. Algebra to Aldebaran. But they lost it, they withdrew and then they collapsed into religious backwaters and forbade progressive thought, that's the fault of any culture. The west surpassed them, and they seem rather jealous. We put a man on the moon, they sat on their laurels. And got surpassed.

Imagine how much farther we’d be if they never stopped studying math and science. We didn’t preserve much of what was learned back then.

This also happened in Greece England France China and is happening here in America. Fundamentalists hold us back but hopefully that’s the primitive humans and we are finally evolving out of that. I can’t see religion making a comeback

 

[MaryL]

The problem with Islam is they are religious. Arabs, I can deal with. Religion holds us back, forgive me, science frees us. Rational thought is forbid by most religions, religion is beautiful but dogmatic.

 

[sealybobo]

The problem with Islam is they are religious. Arabs, I can deal with. Religion holds us back, forgive me, science frees us. Rational thought is forbid by most religions, religion is beautiful but dogmatic.

The other thing that turns me off about religion is this. As soon as you tell someone you don't believe their religion immediately they associate your non belief with immorality. You must be angry. Must be SATAN! LOL. You couldn't possibly be happy moral or a good person.

 

[sealybobo]

To me this comment is so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin. So you don't think of all the trillions of stars out there that the conditions happened anywhere else unless a god did it?

If you can wrap your mind around an omniscient energy force as "god" instead of some religious incarnation, then yes. I think the thousands of variables which had to occur in systematic order and to a precision degree at specific times and intervals along with assorted circumstances which also had to happen precisely as they did in order to culminate in the "intelligent life" we realize as homo sapiens, it isn't something "randomly" produced by this or any other universe. It has every indication to my rational thinking that this is something beyond physical nature at play. Maybe we are yet to discover what "spiritual" actually is? Perhaps there is actually some quantum-physical way to explain what we think of as "spiritual nature"? But there is far too much "coincidence" for me to accept as the product of random meaninglessness.

Imagine you are living on the African savanna 100,000 years ago, and you encounter the wind blowing the grass. You can either attribute the phenomenon to being just the wind or you could run because you think it’s a lion in the tall grass.

You can make a “Type I” error of false positive or “Type II” error of false negative, and these two types of error carry vastly different consequences. The cost of a false-positive error is that you become paranoid. You are always looking around and behind your back for predators and enemies that don’t exist. The cost of a false-negative error is that you are dead. Obviously it’s better to be paranoid than dead so evolution designed a mind that over infers personal, animate, and intentional forces even when none exist.

Religious beliefs come from such an innate cognitive bias to commit false-positive errors rather than false-negative errors. Humans did not evolve to be religious; they evolved to be paranoid. And humans are religious because they are paranoid.

Great example is this. One cannot know for sure if God exists but if one does not believe in God when He exists (false-negative error), one must spend eternity in hell and damnation, whereas if one believes in God when he actually does not exist (false-positive error), one only wastes years listening to religious services. The cost of committing the false-negative error is much greater than the cost of committing the false-positive error. Hence one should rationally believe in God.

 

[LittleNipper]

I don't have a problem with the existence of a GOD, it's people's imaginary artificial fictional dogmatic interpretations of GOD I have a problem with. Religion is made by man. If god is real, well, it seems moot.

Anyone who claims to have the way is a liar. Islam is the perfect example of what’s wrong with religion. Before Islam Baghdad was the science and math center of the universe. Islam taught that math was the devil and all that knowledge and culture went away in exchange for god.

The more I learn the less I like god

For years, Arabs where the center of learning and science, that's true. Algebra to Aldebaran. But they lost it, they withdrew and then they collapsed into religious backwaters and forbade progressive thought, that's the fault of any culture. The west surpassed them, and they seem rather jealous. We put a man on the moon, they sat on their laurels. And got surpassed.

The problem is that once one accepts lies and half-truths, as absolute fact, education ceases to be of any consequence since everything is already understood --- there is no reason to figure it out again --- just use your calculator, exchange text messages, and watch You Tube ----- and then life ends.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't have a problem with the existence of a GOD, it's people's imaginary artificial fictional dogmatic interpretations of GOD I have a problem with. Religion is made by man. If god is real, well, it seems moot.

Anyone who claims to have the way is a liar. Islam is the perfect example of what’s wrong with religion. Before Islam Baghdad was the science and math center of the universe. Islam taught that math was the devil and all that knowledge and culture went away in exchange for god.

The more I learn the less I like god

For years, Arabs where the center of learning and science, that's true. Algebra to Aldebaran. But they lost it, they withdrew and then they collapsed into religious backwaters and forbade progressive thought, that's the fault of any culture. The west surpassed them, and they seem rather jealous. We put a man on the moon, they sat on their laurels. And got surpassed.

The problem is that once one accepts lies and half-truths, as absolute fact, education ceases to be of any consequence since everything is already understood --- there is no reason to figure it out again --- just use your calculator, exchange text messages, and watch You Tube ----- and then life ends.

It was Islam that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe’s Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed.

Why the Arabic World Turned Away from Science

 

[sealybobo]

The OP assumes the existence and reality of the god the OP believes in out of thousands of gods humans worship.

First provide evidence any god exists and then provide evidence the one you believe in is the only 'real' good and all the other gods are not real and all the other billions of people that don't believe as you do are wrong.


Now let the circular illogic storm begin.

How about the possibility that all gods exist while also not existing?

Provide evidence that isn't true.

You can't defend your beliefs. At least you admit it and that is a start.

Beliefs are beliefs, no need to defend them. You have a problem admitting your faith.

Right, you believe 'just 'cause'.

Same thing Flat Earthers say and Bigfoot followers. They don't have any evidence either, they just believe. Again fair enough, glad to see someone admit it.

Noooooo... YOU believe in "just because" and I believe in God.

We both have faith.

I was watching this science show on how far each star is from each other. It's almost impossible for a human brain to comprehend the distance. Even though you believe you understand what a light year is most people don't grasp quite how far a light year is.

So to put it into perspective they shrunk our star down to a grain of sand. Imaging you are holding that grain of sand. That's our sun you are holding. Now consider 1,300,000 planet Earths can fit inside the sun. Can you imagine how small our planet is? Or how small you are? Talk about micro.

Ok, now have someone else take another grain of sand and go 4 miles away. That's how far Alpha Centuri is. Imagine the micro organism living on a planet circling one of those grains of sand suggesting that they know there is no life circling any other grains of sand in the universe.

 

[Boss]

How about the possibility that all gods exist while also not existing?

Provide evidence that isn't true.

You can't defend your beliefs. At least you admit it and that is a start.

Beliefs are beliefs, no need to defend them. You have a problem admitting your faith.

Right, you believe 'just 'cause'.

Same thing Flat Earthers say and Bigfoot followers. They don't have any evidence either, they just believe. Again fair enough, glad to see someone admit it.

Noooooo... YOU believe in "just because" and I believe in God.

We both have faith.

I was watching this science show on how far each star is from each other. It's almost impossible for a human brain to comprehend the distance. Even though you believe you understand what a light year is most people don't grasp quite how far a light year is.

So to put it into perspective they shrunk our star down to a grain of sand. Imaging you are holding that grain of sand. That's our sun you are holding. Now consider 1,300,000 planet Earths can fit inside the sun. Can you imagine how small our planet is? Or how small you are? Talk about micro.

Ok, now have someone else take another grain of sand and go 4 miles away. That's how far Alpha Centuri is. Imagine the micro organism living on a planet circling one of those grains of sand suggesting that they know there is no life circling any other grains of sand in the universe.

How many times do I need to correct you on this? For the FOURTH time in the past page and a half, I never claimed doubts there is ANY life elsewhere in the universe. I haven't even disputed there might be intelligent life elsewhere. My argument is, if there is intelligent life (as we know it) elsewhere, it likely depends upon some force beyond physical nature to enable it. The OP goes into great detail explaining my thought process on that... yet you continue to try and argue a point I've never implied. Why?

 

[Boss]

Religious beliefs come from such an innate cognitive bias to commit false-positive errors rather than false-negative errors.

I don't believe this. Sorry!

Religious beliefs come from our innate spirituality and intrinsic connection to something greater than self, which has been a behavioral attribute of humans since we became civilized. IF your claim were true, we could expect to find religions developed by most upper primates who naturally enacted the same false-positive errors. We don't!

There is no Church of the Dolphins or Theology of the Great Apes. If those were apparent in nature it would support your supposition but we don't find that anywhere.

 

[sealybobo]

Religious beliefs come from such an innate cognitive bias to commit false-positive errors rather than false-negative errors.

I don't believe this. Sorry!

Religious beliefs come from our innate spirituality and intrinsic connection to something greater than self, which has been a behavioral attribute of humans since we became civilized. IF your claim were true, we could expect to find religions developed by most upper primates who naturally enacted the same false-positive errors. We don't!

There is no Church of the Dolphins or Theology of the Great Apes. If those were apparent in nature it would support your supposition but we don't find that anywhere.

They aren’t smart enough. But animals do understand fairness and they too have this fear of what might be in the grass.

Something greater than self. Sure. Something

 

[Boss]

Religious beliefs come from such an innate cognitive bias to commit false-positive errors rather than false-negative errors.

I don't believe this. Sorry!

Religious beliefs come from our innate spirituality and intrinsic connection to something greater than self, which has been a behavioral attribute of humans since we became civilized. IF your claim were true, we could expect to find religions developed by most upper primates who naturally enacted the same false-positive errors. We don't!

There is no Church of the Dolphins or Theology of the Great Apes. If those were apparent in nature it would support your supposition but we don't find that anywhere.

They aren’t smart enough. But animals do understand fairness and they too have this fear of what might be in the grass.

Something greater than self. Sure. Something

Hold on here... you stated that it's better to be paranoid than dead, so evolution created a mind that erred on the side of false-positives. That is nature happening, it has nothing to do with smartness. Now you are leaping back to an argument that nature has nothing to do with it, we just happen to be smarter. I love how your arguments always seem to contradict themselves on the fly as you need for them to and you seem to be so cavalier in realizing this.

Something greater than self. Sure. Something

Okay, so you accept that we have an intrinsic awareness of something greater than self but your only real contention is with the actual words we use to define that thing? IF we called it something other than "spiritual" and used a word other than "God" then you'd be okay with it? Is that what you are telling me?

It doesn't really matter to me if you want to call it feng shui or karma, it's still human spirituality and connection with something greater than self. And there is a reason us super-intelligent evolved creatures have this attribute when millions of living organisms who predate ours by millions of years, don't seem to have.

 

[sealybobo]

Religious beliefs come from such an innate cognitive bias to commit false-positive errors rather than false-negative errors.

I don't believe this. Sorry!

Religious beliefs come from our innate spirituality and intrinsic connection to something greater than self, which has been a behavioral attribute of humans since we became civilized. IF your claim were true, we could expect to find religions developed by most upper primates who naturally enacted the same false-positive errors. We don't!

There is no Church of the Dolphins or Theology of the Great Apes. If those were apparent in nature it would support your supposition but we don't find that anywhere.

They aren’t smart enough. But animals do understand fairness and they too have this fear of what might be in the grass.

Something greater than self. Sure. Something

Hold on here... you stated that it's better to be paranoid than dead, so evolution created a mind that erred on the side of false-positives. That is nature happening, it has nothing to do with smartness. Now you are leaping back to an argument that nature has nothing to do with it, we just happen to be smarter. I love how your arguments always seem to contradict themselves on the fly as you need for them to and you seem to be so cavalier in realizing this.

Something greater than self. Sure. Something

Okay, so you accept that we have an intrinsic awareness of something greater than self but your only real contention is with the actual words we use to define that thing? IF we called it something other than "spiritual" and used a word other than "God" then you'd be okay with it? Is that what you are telling me?

It doesn't really matter to me if you want to call it feng shui or karma, it's still human spirituality and connection with something greater than self. And there is a reason us super-intelligent evolved creatures have this attribute when millions of living organisms who predate ours by millions of years, don't seem to have.

What do you mean by spiritual and god? If you mean the thing that visited and created heaven and hell, I don't believe in "something greater than self".

And what do you mean something greater than self? You mean like our sun? It's greater than me. A moon? The planet? They are greater than me. And who am I really? So "something greater than self" if you mean a creator that created me, I don't believe in that because it doesn't exist in any meaningful way other than in your head.

Yes, it is natural. But our brains got bigger than dogs brains did not. Has something to do with cooking meat and using tools.

You are constantly making false positives. Better to believe than not just like its better to hide than get eaten.

You always mistake what I mean when I say smart. Just because we are the only animal smart enough to come up with the god concept doesn't mean people who believe in god are smart. It just means they have an imagination that dogs don't have.

How do you know Dolphins aren't spiritual? And if they were, you would believe that's even more evidence for god, correct? So no evidence will disprove god. You'll use it and spin it to further confirm your false positives.

I saw this: I want to discuss possibility of Whales & Dolphins being the same spiritual beings as humans, just in different bodies. I believe that it is possible that they have organized societies and the role to play on Earth. Well, if you look at this, they live in different environment to ours so they have no need to build houses. If communication is telepathic, then schools are not needed either. Size of their bodies protects them from any danger, except from humans. They are most definitely intelligent.

Dolphin Energy Healing

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Yes! I want to meet my Dolphin Spirit Guide
Dolphins and Whales have been on the Earth for 30 million years. They are highly conscious and intelligent beings who are happy to share with us humans wisdom they have learned to help us live a more joyful and peaceful life.

 

[Boss]

What do you mean by spiritual and god? If you mean the thing that visited and created heaven and hell, I don't believe in "something greater than self".

I don't know if something "visited" or not and neither do you. Something gave us spiritual awareness because we have it. You can't explain a natural way we obtained it because there is no evidence any other living creature has it. Any natural explanation would have to apply to other upper primates at least and probably most mammals. But we find no evidence of it other than in humans.

And what do you mean something greater than self? You mean like our sun? It's greater than me. A moon? The planet? They are greater than me. And who am I really? So "something greater than self" if you mean a creator that created me, I don't believe in that because it doesn't exist in any meaningful way other than in your head.

No, I didn't say something physically larger than you. "Greater than self" means something beyond the physical or self-conscious state of mankind. Isaac Newton called it a "mercurial force" but he very clearly recognized it was there and it wasn't "in our heads."

The notion that God is all in our heads is laughable because it refutes your very own Darwinist theories! Our species would have LONG ago discarded this useless and pointless attribute, if it were merely imaginary. It's funny how you argue that man is so incredibly smart yet we've somehow believed in something imaginary for all of our existence and that imaginary thing has inspired our advancement in every way. That's a pretty amazing feat if you ask me. We should just use the power of our imaginations to cure disease and end world hunger!

 

[sealybobo]

What do you mean by spiritual and god? If you mean the thing that visited and created heaven and hell, I don't believe in "something greater than self".

I don't know if something "visited" or not and neither do you. Something gave us spiritual awareness because we have it. You can't explain a natural way we obtained it because there is no evidence any other living creature has it. Any natural explanation would have to apply to other upper primates at least and probably most mammals. But we find no evidence of it other than in humans.

And what do you mean something greater than self? You mean like our sun? It's greater than me. A moon? The planet? They are greater than me. And who am I really? So "something greater than self" if you mean a creator that created me, I don't believe in that because it doesn't exist in any meaningful way other than in your head.

No, I didn't say something physically larger than you. "Greater than self" means something beyond the physical or self-conscious state of mankind. Isaac Newton called it a "mercurial force" but he very clearly recognized it was there and it wasn't "in our heads."

The notion that God is all in our heads is laughable because it refutes your very own Darwinist theories! Our species would have LONG ago discarded this useless and pointless attribute, if it were merely imaginary. It's funny how you argue that man is so incredibly smart yet we've somehow believed in something imaginary for all of our existence and that imaginary thing has inspired our advancement in every way. That's a pretty amazing feat if you ask me. We should just use the power of our imaginations to cure disease and end world hunger!

I already did explain how we naturally obtained it and this fact isn't false just because no other animal, THAT WE KNOW OF, has it, YET.

For all you know Dolphins have it.

And if they did have it you'd say that was proof of god. Wouldn't you? So either way you say this is proof of god? You're a joke.

You keep making thinking mistakes. LOTS OF THEM. You keep concluding things that aren't even true. False positives in every post you make.

 

[Boss]

I already did explain how we naturally obtained it and this fact isn't false just because no other animal, THAT WE KNOW OF, has it, YET.

For all you know Dolphins have it.

And if they did have it you'd say that was proof of god. Wouldn't you? So either way you say this is proof of god? You're a joke.

You keep making thinking mistakes. LOTS OF THEM. You keep concluding things that aren't even true. False positives in every post you make.

Silly boob, I am very careful not to state things as absolute certainties because I believe all things are possible. All I can rationalize has to be based on observable data and information. I can't accept that human spirituality is the natural result of imagination or smart brains when we don't see the evidence in other upper primates and mammals. And if dolphins also realize some spiritual force beyond physical nature, it would seem to refute the idea that this is simply something humans made up from imagination.

I'm not the one making the thinking mistakes here, you are. I'm pointing them out to you as we go and demonstrating how your arguments are constantly contradicting previous arguments as well as your Darwinist theories. That's apparently driving you nuts because Neal DeIdiot Tyson told you something else and you didn't have the capacity of intellectual thought to challenge a thing he said, you just gulped it down like the nit-wit brainless twerp you are.

Now, I have NEVER said that anything is "proof of God." IF I had "proof of God" we wouldn't be having this conversation. God is not provable unless you believe in spiritual nature and prove God to yourself.

Someone said, well how do we know which God is true? Well, why can't ALL Gods be true and at the very same time, NO Gods be true? ...Oh, but that doesn't make logical sense... but it doesn't have to. We know through quantum mechanics that numerous potentials can simultaneously exist. If this is true in the quantum physical universe, then it can certainly be true in spiritual nature.