America & Nazi Germany

[JakeStarkey]

You are right, it is unimportant.

 

[whitehall]

There was no "official" term limit for president before FDR. We didn't need it. You could say that FDR seized power to run for his 3rd and 4th terms in a similar way that Hitler initially gained power in Germany, with political intimidation, media talkeover and the threat of violence.

That is nonsense.

You don't get to say "it's nonsense" and walk away except in the schoolyard or the union based educational system. #1 America didn't need term limits for the president because they all respected a limit of two terms. #2 FDR ran for four terms.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There was no "official" term limit for president before FDR. We didn't need it. You could say that FDR seized power to run for his 3rd and 4th terms in a similar way that Hitler initially gained power in Germany, with political intimidation, media talkeover and the threat of violence.

That is nonsense.

You don't get to say "it's nonsense" and walk away except in the schoolyard or the union based educational system. #1 America didn't need term limits for the president because they all respected a limit of two terms. #2 FDR ran for four terms.

If Artevelde of all people, tell you your comment, correctly, which he did, is nonsense, then you are in deep doosh, boy.

You made a stupid ass comment comparing succession of Hitler with that of FDR and his subsequent third and fourth terms.

You have made a merre assertion with three unsubstantiated points, Whitehall.

WhiteHallup and confront your Inner Doosh.

 

[barry1960]

There was no "official" term limit for president before FDR. We didn't need it. You could say that FDR seized power to run for his 3rd and 4th terms in a similar way that Hitler initially gained power in Germany, with political intimidation, media talkeover and the threat of violence.

That is nonsense.

You don't get to say "it's nonsense" and walk away except in the schoolyard or the union based educational system. #1 America didn't need term limits for the president because they all respected a limit of two terms. #2 FDR ran for four terms.

Theodore Roosevelt held the presidency for eight years, took four years off and ran again in 1912 under the Bull Moose Party. If successful he would have served three terms, although non-consecutive.

Now to address your non-sensical comparison of Hitler's ascension to dictator and FDR's third term in office:

FDR was elected to a third tem as president. Hitler was appointed chancelor in a coalition government in 1933. Hitler used in SA as well as support from the police to intimidate and outlaw all other parties within six months. The Reichstag fire and subsequnet enabling act eliminated the Reichstag as a political force. Thus Hitler rule as a dictator, eventually making his word German law. Interestingly, Hitler never won a majority vote on his road to power.

FDR never used the intimidation of force of millions of militia to obtain absolute power. FDR did not eliminate all other parties. FDR did not eliminate congress.

There is no comparison.

 

[Unkotare]

You left out FDR's concentration camps for innocent, loyal Americans.

 

[whitehall]

OK, my comparison of FDR's disregard of the self limiting terms established by George Washington and Hitler's rise in Germany was a little over the top but it got your attention. Hitler's rise in German politics relied intimidation but he was actually elected by the uninformed and ignorant German people who relied on propaganda rather than news for their information sources. Hitler rose in Germany at the same time FDR rose in American politics. There is little evidence that FDR did anything more than issue a few typical windy statements to address the Nazi atrocities while Hitler became more powerful. FDR was busy trying to subvert the Supreme Court while pressuring congress to enforce the New Deal did little to curb the incredible hardship of the Great Depression.

 

[regent]

Washington established some firsts but they were not laws any more than a president must have false teeth or own slaves. Had the framers believed two terms and out, they would have indicated that in Article Two of the Constitution, but they did not. Suppose Washington had only accepted one term, or three? The firsts of Washington are great but only firsts, not laws nor part of the Constitution.

 

[barry1960]

OK, my comparison of FDR's disregard of the self limiting terms established by George Washington and Hitler's rise in Germany was a little over the top but it got your attention. Hitler's rise in German politics relied intimidation but he was actually elected by the uninformed and ignorant German people who relied on propaganda rather than news for their information sources. Hitler rose in Germany at the same time FDR rose in American politics. There is little evidence that FDR did anything more than issue a few typical windy statements to address the Nazi atrocities while Hitler became more powerful. FDR was busy trying to subvert the Supreme Court while pressuring congress to enforce the New Deal did little to curb the incredible hardship of the Great Depression.

Yes, you did get my attention. In 1932 the nazi's rose to be the largest party in Germany, but not a majority. Hitler was appointed Chancelor of a coalition government, then used a combination of state resources and intimidation to quickly turn the coalition government into a dictatorship. Hitler owed his rise to the worldwide depression, a distain for democracy among the Army and other political players, Hitler's speaking ability, the millions of stormtroopers, Goebels use of propaganda, and the miscalculations of political opponents. However, i would not call the german people uninformed. Germans were very politically active and there was a plethora of newspapers before the nazis shut them down.

As far as FDR doing nothing to curb the Nazis. He did little throughout the 1930s, but who did? America was an isolationist nation. France and England could have easily crushed a rebuilding Germany in the 1930s, but did nothing. I am not sure why FDR is getting blame for this.

FDR did take action early in WWII, before the USA was attacked. The US navy escorted convoys, fired on German submarines, took over defense of Iceland, lended England 50 destroyers and some planes. All this over the strenuous objections of isolationist Republicans.

 

[barry1960]

You left out FDR's concentration camps for innocent, loyal Americans.

We Americans love to bash ourselves. These were scary times after pearl harbor was attacked. There were Japanese spies on Hawaii scouting our fleet. America over reacted with the japense internment camps. However, if one were to look at the examples of the other participants in WWII, the USA was a shining example of morality in WWII.

The US dropped two atomic bombs because we had them. I believe every other participant would have used such a weapon in they had possessed it. Sure Japanese Americans were rounded up, but they were not slaughtered.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OK, my comparison of FDR's disregard of the self limiting terms established by George Washington and Hitler's rise in Germany was a little over the top ....

"a little over the top"?

It discredited everything you are trying to say.

 

[regent]

The problem I find with history is that historians have not yet found a way to really bring back a period in total. By that I mean where people can really understand the feelings, fears and so forth of the people. Those feelings and fears can only be said by historians, but seldom felt by the reader. To say that people, ordinary Americans were fearful after Pearl Harbor and felt very aggressive towards the Japanese on the west coast doesn't do it. In fact, the Japanese had long been the object of aggression by many Americans before Pearl Harbor, and after December 7th it increased. That was not a valid reason for removing them but it might indicate why most Americans did not object. The saving grace of the whole episode was the role of the Japanese Americans themselves, the 442nd, the attempt to make those camps only holding camps, not a form of punishment, and perhaps that we learned something from the whole episode.
I wonder how many remember the zoot suiters?

 

[Unkotare]

You left out FDR's concentration camps for innocent, loyal Americans.

We Americans love to bash ourselves. These were scary times after pearl harbor was attacked. There were Japanese spies on Hawaii scouting our fleet. America over reacted with the japense internment camps. However, if one were to look at the examples of the other participants in WWII, the USA was a shining example of morality in WWII.

The US dropped two atomic bombs because we had them. I believe every other participant would have used such a weapon in they had possessed it. Sure Japanese Americans were rounded up, but they were not slaughtered.

This has all been posted many times before but I guess you missed it.

1) Not ONE Japanese-American was EVER convicted of espionage during WWII.

2) The loyal American citizens who the scumbag FDR had thrown into concentration camps went on to make up a large part of the most highly decorated military unit in US history.

3) Anyone who would try to rationalize or excuse throwing over 100,000 innocent AMERICANS into concentration camps doesn't deserve to live in America, let alone be a citizen.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Unkotare, once again, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own definitions and facts.

The J-A internment camps were nothing like Nazi concentration camps. The very suggestion that any comparison exists reveals that you are mentally feeble, or ignorant of the facts, or motivated malignantly.

An injustice to our J-A citizens did indeed occur, with some very unfortunate consequences. To suggest that it was comparable to Nazi Germany reflects poorly on your ability to analyze.

 

[Unkotare]

Unkotare, once again, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own definitions and facts.

The J-A internment camps were nothing like Nazi concentration camps. The very suggestion that any comparison exists reveals that you are mentally feeble, or ignorant of the facts, or motivated malignantly.

An injustice to our J-A citizens did indeed occur, with some very unfortunate consequences. To suggest that it was comparable to Nazi Germany reflects poorly on your ability to analyze.

You need to read more and imagine less. I haven't said anywhere that FDR's concentration camps were the same as Hitler's. The only comparison that I have made - and it is indisputable - is that they were both concentration camps. FDR threw over 100,000 innocent AMERICANS into concentration camps. Any other comparisons that you may have cooked up in your little imagination are your problem. I will say this, anyone who tries to excuse what FDR did with "well, our concentration camps weren't as bad as theirs" is an unamerican low-life. We hold ourselves to a million times higher standard than that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Unkotare, when you use the term "concentration camp" to describe the J-A internment camp, (1) you use the term incorrectly, (2) yet you use it deliberately, and (3) you use it to inflame.

What happened was not good, but in no, way, shape, or form, were they concentration camps.

You have no further credibility on this subject. Run along.

 

[Unkotare]

Unkotare, when you use the term "concentration camp" to describe the J-A internment camp, (1) you use the term incorrectly, (2) yet you use it deliberately, and (3) you use it to inflame.

What happened was not good, but in no, way, shape, or form, were they concentration camps.

You have no further credibility on this subject. Run along.

What did I tell you about reading and imagining? Go ask Mommy to look up the term "concentration camp" for you.

You know what? Don't bother her, I'll do it for you:


"A place where large numbers of political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities are imprisoned"

"A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions"

"a guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens, members of ethnic minorities, political opponents, etc"


I couldn't give less of a shit if the truth makes you uncomfortable, douchebag. FDR threw AMERICANS into concentration camps.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ad homs make you look silly.

You are waffling. Use terms carefully and not emotionally. The truth makes you uncomfortable. As bad as the internment experience was found by the J-A interrnees, they did not suffer as did those in Europe.

Three words: shame on you.

 

[Unkotare]

I gave you the definition above (since you apparently didn't know the definition). Again, try actually reading for a change, dim-wit.

 

[Unkotare]

As bad as the internment experience was found by the J-A interrnees, they did not suffer as did those in Europe.

AGAIN, I didn't say they did. Are you really this stupid, or just completely dishonest?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are failing in trying to enflame a situation by a false analogy and wrong use of words.

Get used to being corrected.