Americans ALL!!!

[Annie]

You measure a man's worth by how he treats those less fortunate, and so it is with a nation.

Sounds good, but the question to you was

Americans all? What about those who accept government assistance, yet have the means to provide for themselves? Do they deserve the sacrifices of our fathers?

 

[N4mddissent]

Sounds good, but the question to you was

I don't believe the question was to me, but I'll answer it. Yes, they are Americans. Even if they are lazy, non-working people who live off the state. Just like liars and racists are still Americans. Just like coorporate executives who steal from the stockholders while their companies get corporate welfare are still Americans. Those guys on T.V. preaching about how the lord needs folks money- they're American too. Whacky conspiracy theorists, hate-mongers, stoners, addicts, drunks are all Americans. You can't lose your birthright of American citizenship through an immoral lifestyle or because other citizens might not approve of your work-ethic. If it can be tossed away so easy, then being an American is worthless. It would be a lot easier to solve problems if everyone who didn't conform to your standard could be declared non-citizens but I think we should have the courage to deal with problems rather than pretend it's not there. Yes, it's a problem when people abuse the system, but it's my problem and your problem if you're an American. As for the sacrifices of earlier generation I have to say that I believe it is the question that is based on an incorrect premise. It seems to me that you're asking if the these people are worthy of the sacrifice, but I don't believe any person is of such value that they are worthy of the sacrifice of another. I believe those who came before us sacrificed for America and contrary to popular expression, America is not just "the people". "The people" have changed generation after generation, but it is the framework of ideas embodied in the constitution that is the foundation of America. The laws and rules built upon it and the changes to it and other laws are built by the people, but America's core is the Constitution and the rights illustrated within that document. That is what was worth the sacrifice. And the Constitution says they are Americans, therefore, they are Americans and the principles in the Constitution that gave them that citizenship were worth the sacrifice.

 

[N4mddissent]

That's a great line. Define unfortunate, please.

Unfortunate-

adj.
Characterized by undeserved bad luck; unlucky.
Causing misfortune; disastrous.
Regrettable; deplorable: an unfortunate lack of good manners.
n.
A victim of bad luck.

There you go. Don't know why you wanted that. I never used the word.

 

[xsited1]

You measure a man's worth by how he treats those less fortunate, and so it is with a nation.

So why respond to my post? My post had nothing to do with how a man treats those who are less fortunate.

 

[N4mddissent]

So why respond to my post? My post had nothing to do with how a man treats those who are less fortunate.

And that is the point I have argued with others in the past. Do you have a way to continue helping those less fortunate while eliminating any abuse of the system?

 

[Annie]

I don't believe the question was to me, but I'll answer it. Yes, they are Americans. Even if they are lazy, non-working people who live off the state. Just like liars and racists are still Americans. Just like coorporate executives who steal from the stockholders while their companies get corporate welfare are still Americans. Those guys on T.V. preaching about how the lord needs folks money- they're American too. Whacky conspiracy theorists, hate-mongers, stoners, addicts, drunks are all Americans. You can't lose your birthright of American citizenship through an immoral lifestyle or because other citizens might not approve of your work-ethic. If it can be tossed away so easy, then being an American is worthless. It would be a lot easier to solve problems if everyone who didn't conform to your standard could be declared non-citizens but I think we should have the courage to deal with problems rather than pretend it's not there. Yes, it's a problem when people abuse the system, but it's my problem and your problem if you're an American. As for the sacrifices of earlier generation I have to say that I believe it is the question that is based on an incorrect premise. It seems to me that you're asking if the these people are worthy of the sacrifice, but I don't believe any person is of such value that they are worthy of the sacrifice of another. I believe those who came before us sacrificed for America and contrary to popular expression, America is not just "the people". "The people" have changed generation after generation, but it is the framework of ideas embodied in the constitution that is the foundation of America. The laws and rules built upon it and the changes to it and other laws are built by the people, but America's core is the Constitution and the rights illustrated within that document. That is what was worth the sacrifice. And the Constitution says they are Americans, therefore, they are Americans and the principles in the Constitution that gave them that citizenship were worth the sacrifice.

I'm sorry. Comparing those that choose not to work with those who abuse the system? Give me a break! All losers and cheats, step this way.

What the f, probably going to happen.

 

[dilloduck]

Unfortunate-

adj.
Characterized by undeserved bad luck; unlucky.
Causing misfortune; disastrous.
Regrettable; deplorable: an unfortunate lack of good manners.
n.
A victim of bad luck.

There you go. Don't know why you wanted that. I never used the word.

Oh my--I'm so sorry. please define less fortunate

 

[N4mddissent]

I'm sorry. Comparing those that choose not to work with those who abuse the system? Give me a break! All losers and cheats, step this way.

What the f, probably going to happen.

What? How do you define abusing the system?

 

[N4mddissent]

Oh my--I'm so sorry. please define less fortunate

Standard definition.

 

[xsited1]

And that is the point I have argued with others in the past. Do you have a way to continue helping those less fortunate while eliminating any abuse of the system?

Of course. Welfare reform was a good start. Less government is even better. Do you know why the American people are the most giving people of any nation on Earth? It's because our taxes are relatively low and we are free. However, we are becoming a welfare State which threatens our very existence. Imagine how many millions (and perhaps billions) will suffer if America becomes a welfare State. It's inconceivable.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'm sorry. Comparing those that choose not to work with those who abuse the system? Give me a break! All losers and cheats, step this way.

What the f, probably going to happen.

I don't get you Bush voters.

Rich, corrupt white men on wall street have cost you more money, by many orders of magnitude, than some welfare mothers ever have. What was the cost of the S&L bailout? A trillion dollars? What about the current bailout, isn't that about a trillion dollars?

And yet you cons are always bitching about food stamps. What gives? Caught up in your little partisan world, and unable to sort out the correct priorities?

Give it up. Welfare was reformed over a decade ago. No one can live on welfare forever anymore - there's a time limit on collecting it.

Oddly enough, the rich white dudes on wall street get to bail out of their corruption and crimes with multimillion dollar parachutes, and yet you never hear a con put up a post crying about that.

 

[Annie]

Of course. Welfare reform was a good start. Less government is even better. Do you know why the American people are the most giving people of any nation on Earth? It's because our taxes are relatively low and we are free. However, we are becoming a welfare State which threatens our very existence. Imagine how many millions (and perhaps billions) will suffer if America becomes a welfare State. It's inconceivable.

I fear we are waging a losing battle, at the cost of the needy. Going to steel my heart and say, Obama will win. I'll deal with. Not one more cent to any charities, regardless of purported good acts. My trust will be in the Obama vision of helping those less fortunate, here and abroad.

 

[xsited1]

I fear we are waging a losing battle, at the cost of the needy. Going to steel my heart and say, Obama will win. I'll deal with. Not one more cent to any charities, regardless of purported good acts. My trust will be in the Obama vision of helping those less fortunate, here and abroad.

Time to move to Galt's Gulch, a secluded refuge in a valley of Colorado where the men of ability have retreated after relinquishing participation in American society. This call was to the great men of mind and action to abandon the increasingly slave-state inclinations of a decaying United States - to go on strike - thereby withdrawing the only thing supporting the parasites and looters.
Atlas Shrugged

 

[Annie]

Time to move to Galt's Gulch, a secluded refuge in a valley of Colorado where the men of ability have retreated after relinquishing participation in American society. This call was to the great men of mind and action to abandon the increasingly slave-state inclinations of a decaying United States - to go on strike - thereby withdrawing the only thing supporting the parasites and looters.
Atlas Shrugged

Sounds like a plan. Obamanation will not be mine, not if it goes the way purported.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't get you Bush voters.

Rich, corrupt white men on wall street have cost you more money, by many orders of magnitude, than some welfare mothers ever have. What was the cost of the S&L bailout? A trillion dollars? What about the current bailout, isn't that about a trillion dollars?

And yet you cons are always bitching about food stamps. What gives? Caught up in your little partisan world, and unable to sort out the correct priorities?

Give it up. Welfare was reformed over a decade ago. No one can live on welfare forever anymore - there's a time limit on collecting it.

Oddly enough, the rich white dudes on wall street get to bail out of their corruption and crimes with multimillion dollar parachutes, and yet you never hear a con put up a post crying about that.

Are you talking about the bill that the Democratic Congress passed ?

 

[N4mddissent]

Of course. Welfare reform was a good start. Less government is even better. Do you know why the American people are the most giving people of any nation on Earth? It's because our taxes are relatively low and we are free. However, we are becoming a welfare State which threatens our very existence. Imagine how many millions (and perhaps billions) will suffer if America becomes a welfare State. It's inconceivable.

How do you define welfare state?

 

[N4mddissent]

I don't get you Bush voters.

Rich, corrupt white men on wall street have cost you more money, by many orders of magnitude, than some welfare mothers ever have. What was the cost of the S&L bailout? A trillion dollars? What about the current bailout, isn't that about a trillion dollars?

And yet you cons are always bitching about food stamps. What gives? Caught up in your little partisan world, and unable to sort out the correct priorities?

Give it up. Welfare was reformed over a decade ago. No one can live on welfare forever anymore - there's a time limit on collecting it.

Oddly enough, the rich white dudes on wall street get to bail out of their corruption and crimes with multimillion dollar parachutes, and yet you never hear a con put up a post crying about that.

To be fair, Red Dawn, I have seen several conservatives complain about corporate bail outs. I do feel from conversations I've had that some conservatives seem overly fixated on the problem of people abusing welfare. It bothers me. But for some reason knowing the lady down the street is getting free food, a place to live, and a little cash when her only problem is she's lazy doesn't bother me as much as AIG executives having a 400,000 dollar party after getting a truck load of tax dollars to help them out.

 

[N4mddissent]

I'm still wondering what you meant about lazy people living off the state being different that people abusing the system, Kathianne

 

[dilloduck]

To be fair, Red Dawn, I have seen several conservatives complain about corporate bail outs. I do feel from conversations I've had that some conservatives seem overly fixated on the problem of people abusing welfare. It bothers me. But for some reason knowing the lady down the street is getting free food, a place to live, and a little cash when her only problem is she's lazy doesn't bother me as much as AIG executives having a 400,000 dollar party after getting a truck load of tax dollars to help them out.

Then why did the Democrats band together to bail out AIG and Wall Street ?
Is this another case of the right hand pretending it doesn't know what the left hand is doing ? Democrats overwhelmingly supported it yet now they bitch about it ? ( please don't say they were tricked again )

 

[Luissa]

An amazing thing happened on my way to this point in my life I emigrated from a country that had been taken over by communists. I certainly do not need someone's book to tell me of that which I have lived, now do I?

That was not the point of my post! I do not agree with the guy and it is not a book!