American's and their military; drifting apart

[Oldguy]

"....But the greatest challenge to our military is not from a foreign enemy — it’s the widening gap between the American people and their armed forces....

...The civilian-military divide erodes the sense of duty that is critical to the health of our democratic republic, where the most important office is that of the citizen. While the armed forces retool for the future, citizens cannot be mere spectators. As Adams said about military power: “A wise and prudent people will always have a watchful and a jealous eye over it....”


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130527&_r=0


I couldn't agree more with Gen. Eikenberry and Professor Kennedy, who wrote this article. A large standing army, divorced from The People they serve, is a permanent threat to our liberties and especially so given the politicization of the Armed Forces which has gone on for the past 30 years or so.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To a certain extent I agree.
As to why it's happening? I'm sure it's a number of things. One being a mass influx of foreigners who have no real allegiance to our country.
And an impression that the military could be turned loose on American citizens.
Then you have the general mistrust of gov and all things connected.

I strongly support our military myself. It's the ones pulling the strings that scare me.

 

[Sallow]

"....But the greatest challenge to our military is not from a foreign enemy — it’s the widening gap between the American people and their armed forces....

...The civilian-military divide erodes the sense of duty that is critical to the health of our democratic republic, where the most important office is that of the citizen. While the armed forces retool for the future, citizens cannot be mere spectators. As Adams said about military power: “A wise and prudent people will always have a watchful and a jealous eye over it....”


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130527&_r=0


I couldn't agree more with Gen. Eikenberry and Professor Kennedy, who wrote this article. A large standing army, divorced from The People they serve, is a permanent threat to our liberties and especially so given the politicization of the Armed Forces which has gone on for the past 30 years or so.

Rachel Maddow wrote a book on this..

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/b...of-msnbc-traces-american-militarism.html?_r=0

 

[editec]

"....But the greatest challenge to our military is not from a foreign enemy — it’s the widening gap between the American people and their armed forces....

...The civilian-military divide erodes the sense of duty that is critical to the health of our democratic republic, where the most important office is that of the citizen. While the armed forces retool for the future, citizens cannot be mere spectators. As Adams said about military power: “A wise and prudent people will always have a watchful and a jealous eye over it....”


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130527&_r=0


I couldn't agree more with Gen. Eikenberry and Professor Kennedy, who wrote this article. A large standing army, divorced from The People they serve, is a permanent threat to our liberties and especially so given the politicization of the Armed Forces which has gone on for the past 30 years or so.

The ALL VOLUNTEER force leads to a military caste that is not healthy in a democratic republic.


Standing armies are bad enough, but when the standing army becomes a class onto itself?

Not good.

 

[whitehall]

It's the dumbest least informed article about the Military since Harry Reid claimed "the war is lost". You see this crap every time a liberal democrat is in office. Did Eikenberry and Kennedy sleep through civics 101? The Armed Forces has no say in it's mission. The Military is run by the civilian government. If the Military is used as a social experiment and one of it's missions is to murder American citizens with drone strikes it's the fault of the administration.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The military personnel are not the threat nearly as much to civil liberties as a VOLAR standing army operates at the will of the president with almost no restraint from the American citizenry, which has so very little contact with the military and its lifestyle.

One of the reasons that Vietnam War support among the population deteriorated so quickly was the return of 17,000 caskets (the great majority of the dead were draftees) to American cities, towns, and hamlets throughout the country in 1968.

While I am not thrilled with the idea of a conscripted military, the fact remains that such a military remains connected to all of America.

 

[Seawytch]

Rachel Maddow wrote a book on this..

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/b...of-msnbc-traces-american-militarism.html?_r=0

But it is Ms. Maddow’s contention that subsequent presidents have even more deliberately sought to avoid dragging Congress into the conversation, because Congressional debates and military allocations upset the public. So does the calling up of troops. As the waging of war has grown increasingly secretive and privatized, presidents have built on precedent. They have seen less and less advantage in letting Congress weigh in on these decisions.

 

[Seawytch]

The military personnel are not the threat nearly as much to civil liberties as a VOLAR standing army operates at the will of the president with almost no restraint from the American citizenry, which has so very little contact with the military and its lifestyle.

One of the reasons that Vietnam War support among the population deteriorated so quickly was the return of 17,000 caskets (the great majority of the dead were draftees) to American cities, towns, and hamlets throughout the country.

While I am not thrilled with the idea of a conscripted military, the fact remains that such a military remains connected to all of America.

While I was serving in our all volunteer military, I was opposed to conscripted service. Now that I'm in the civilian world working with a bunch of "fresh out of law school" kids that don't even know how to check the oil in their cars, have never done a day of hard work in their lives and pay some pretty, buffed out "trainer" to put them through "boot camp"...I'm modifying my position.

 

[whitehall]

Like all the other liberal media outlets the NY Times initially supported LBJ's war and then turned on the Military when the going got rough. Anti-war protesters were all over the place during the Bush administration and suddenly disappeared when a radical leftie was elected. Today we see veiled accusations by the media that brave Military Vets might be potential terrorists while real terrorists are ignored. Overt homosexuals, gay bars on post and co-ed training scaled down to the physical level of high school cheer leaders are not the ideas of the Military. Killing American citizens with drone strikes never has been a legitimate mission of the Military. If the Times thinks the Military is drifting away they need to look no further than the criminals who are running the administration.

 

[Oldguy]

It's the dumbest least informed article about the Military since Harry Reid claimed "the war is lost". You see this crap every time a liberal democrat is in office. Did Eikenberry and Kennedy sleep through civics 101? The Armed Forces has no say in it's mission. The Military is run by the civilian government. If the Military is used as a social experiment and one of it's missions is to murder American citizens with drone strikes it's the fault of the administration.

You missed the whole point, didn't you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

whitehall, offer something of worth. Please.

 

[Oldguy]

whitehall, offer something of worth. Please.

I'm afraid it's a deeper subject than he can handle. Trapped inside his self-constructed ideological and political box, he can't see beyond Obama.

 

[Missourian]

A very Northeastern perception.

In the South, there isn't a gap between military and civilians.

I'd say one out of every six men over 30 in my town is a veteran.

Up North, you might feel divorced from military members...but don't misconstrue your personal experience with that of the rest of the country.

 

[Seawytch]

A very Northeastern perception.

In the South, there isn't a gap between military and civilians.

I'd say one out of every six men over 30 in my town is a veteran.

Up North, you might feel divorced from military members...but don't misconstrue your personal experience with that of the rest of the country.

The entire country...Less than 3% of this country's population joins our all volunteer military.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Southerners make the mistake often (I know, I lived among them for more than thirty years) believe they are the reflection of the American mainstream, when, in fact, they are the outstream most of the time.

 

[Billo_Really]

"....But the greatest challenge to our military is not from a foreign enemy — it’s the widening gap between the American people and their armed forces....

...The civilian-military divide erodes the sense of duty that is critical to the health of our democratic republic, where the most important office is that of the citizen. While the armed forces retool for the future, citizens cannot be mere spectators. As Adams said about military power: “A wise and prudent people will always have a watchful and a jealous eye over it....”


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130527&_r=0


I couldn't agree more with Gen. Eikenberry and Professor Kennedy, who wrote this article. A large standing army, divorced from The People they serve, is a permanent threat to our liberties and especially so given the politicization of the Armed Forces which has gone on for the past 30 years or so.

I don't agree with this!

Today’s Pentagon budget accounts for less than 5 percent of gross domestic product and less than 20 percent of the federal budget — down from 45 percent of federal expenditures at the height of the Vietnam War.

The amount of tax payer dollars we spend every year on military related costs is over $2 trillion anually.

Since the onset of “the Global War on Terror” in 2001, the total cost for our garrisoning policies, for our presence abroad, has probably reached $1.8 trillion to $2.1 trillion.

This is a ridiculous amount of money to be spent on the military.

I agree with this!

Other measures to strengthen citizen engagement with the military should include decreased reliance on contractors for noncombat tasks, so that the true size of the force would be more transparent

 

[Missourian]

This is what frightens liberals.

Don't be afraid, the Southern bogeyman isn't going to get you.

No need to try to rile folks up on Memorial Day.

 

[AmyNation]

Top states all military personnel come from.


# 1 Guam: 14.535 per 10,000 people
# 2 Montana: 8.529 per 10,000 people
# 3 Oklahoma: 7.438 per 10,000 people
# 4 Hawaii: 7.215 per 10,000 people
# 5 Alabama: 6.959 per 10,000 people
# 6 American Samoa: 6.911 per 10,000 people
# 7 Texas: 6.822 per 10,000 people
# 8 Louisiana: 6.661 per 10,000 people
# 9 Kansas: 6.642 per 10,000 people
# 10 Virginia: 6.55 per 10,000 people

 

[AmyNation]

And the bottom


# 50 Mississippi: 0.551 per 10,000 people
# 51 Ohio: 0.511 per 10,000 people
# 52 Utah: 0.458 per 10,000 people
# 53 California: 0.456 per 10,000 people
# 54 Michigan: 0.431 per 10,000 people
# 55 Puerto Rico: 0.355 per 10,000 people

Total Military Recruits: Army, Navy, Air Force (per capita) statistics - States Compared - StateMaster

 

[Missourian]

A very Northeastern perception.

In the South, there isn't a gap between military and civilians.

I'd say one out of every six men over 30 in my town is a veteran.

Up North, you might feel divorced from military members...but don't misconstrue your personal experience with that of the rest of the country.

The entire country...Less than 3% of this country's population joins our all volunteer military.

In Missouri, 11% of the population are military veterans...and those veterans are concentrated in the more rural areas.

The number of Veterans in Missouri is 495,420. The Veterans make up 10.9% of the 4,555,615 Civilian Population (18 Years and Older).



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I have no need of the stats personally...all that is required is a trip to the Legion Hall.

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