Americans going overseas for medical care

[DiveCon]

Is that a question ?

I'd answer if I knew.

thanks for proving you are nothing but a troll

Would love to talk with you but you are unequipped for meaingful, written discussion.

Sorry.

thanks for also proving you are a fucking moron

 

[editec]

On the other hand Canadians who don't wish to wait months or even years for certain elective surgeries are flocking to the US. You win some you lose some.

I'd love to see the statistical evidence you have to support that claim.

I happen to live near the Eastern Maine Medical center, which is one of the largest and closest health care facilities to millions of Canadians.

To date there is no influx of Canadians visiting that place.

There ARE, however, plenty of Mainers who visit Canada to buy their drugs, get medical and dental treatments they cannot afford in America, too.

Odd that the facts are 180 degrees different that you have been informed of, isn't it, Gary D?

Perhaps, you ought to consider the possibly that you are being lied to.

Perhaps you ought to do some research to discover for yourself that you are being lied to, too.

Go ahead, amigo, try thinking for yourself and stop depending on radio hate jocks for your disinformation.

I dare ya'!

EDITECH,

I may have misjudged you. You seem to be a very broadmined and wise individual. Yes we do have our problems with Medicare but we dont go bankrupt when we get ill. Americans have been lied to about Canadian Medicare by the Insurance Industry mostly, and the hate jocks like Rush Limpdick.

I studied health care management leading to an MBA under Hop Holmberg, Yukon.

Studying comparative health care delivery systems from the perspective of a business analyst was the whole point of that degree.

The United States of America has the least efficient health care delivery system in the industrialized world. Americans get the least HC bang for the most HC bucks.

Hence we witness a continuous litanty of BIG LIES that continue to misinfrom the easily and willingly misinformable from our corporate masters.

These gullible fools hear the lies from some extrmely biased propaganda outlets (the only ones they depend on for everything they think they know, I suspect) and they never do a damned thing to check the veracity of these lies.

Then, like dutiful soldiers serving in the the army of the ignorant, they spew these lies out at people, like myself, who have fogotten more about national health care delivery system efficacy than their original sources every knew about that subject.

 

[Sky Dancer]

OH and in portugal I had a routine mamo done...after 4 months I was notified to see another doctor asap because that machine (mamomatic) was defective...my xrays were all black...I was told I got a heavy dose of radiation...5 years later thyroid problems, surgical removal of 1/2 of it.

I'm sorry to hear you had poor medical care outside the US. My friends have had opposite experiences. Even with the cost of travel it has been more affordable to them to get surgeries and expensive procedures done outside the US.

The healthcare delivery system, like everything else, is going global.

 

[Chris]

On the other hand Canadians who don't wish to wait months or even years for certain elective surgeries are flocking to the US. You win some you lose some.

I'd love to see the statistical evidence you have to support that claim.

I happen to live near the Eastern Maine Medical center, which is one of the largest and closest health care facilities to millions of Canadians.

To date there is no influx of Canadians visiting that place.

There ARE, however, plenty of Mainers who visit Canada to buy their drugs, get medical and dental treatments they cannot afford in America, too.

Odd that the facts are 180 degrees different that you have been informed of, isn't it, Gary D?

Perhaps, you ought to consider the possibly that you are being lied to.

Perhaps you ought to do some research to discover for yourself that you are being lied to, too.

Go ahead, amigo, try thinking for yourself and stop depending on radio hate jocks for your disinformation.

I dare ya'!

EDITECH,

I may have misjudged you. You seem to be a very broadmined and wise individual. Yes we do have our problems with Medicare but we dont go bankrupt when we get ill. Americans have been lied to about Canadian Medicare by the Insurance Industry mostly, and the hate jocks like Rush Limpdick.

That's it in a nutshell.

And these wing nuts are so stupid that they don't understand that they are just shills for the corporate greedheads.

What is ironic is that now even the doctors realize that we need a single payer system for healthcare.

 

[elvis]

I'd love to see the statistical evidence you have to support that claim.

I happen to live near the Eastern Maine Medical center, which is one of the largest and closest health care facilities to millions of Canadians.

To date there is no influx of Canadians visiting that place.

There ARE, however, plenty of Mainers who visit Canada to buy their drugs, get medical and dental treatments they cannot afford in America, too.

Odd that the facts are 180 degrees different that you have been informed of, isn't it, Gary D?

Perhaps, you ought to consider the possibly that you are being lied to.

Perhaps you ought to do some research to discover for yourself that you are being lied to, too.

Go ahead, amigo, try thinking for yourself and stop depending on radio hate jocks for your disinformation.

I dare ya'!

EDITECH,

I may have misjudged you. You seem to be a very broadmined and wise individual. Yes we do have our problems with Medicare but we dont go bankrupt when we get ill. Americans have been lied to about Canadian Medicare by the Insurance Industry mostly, and the hate jocks like Rush Limpdick.

That's it in a nutshell.

And these wing nuts are so stupid that they don't understand that they are just shills for the corporate greedheads.

What is ironic is that now even the doctors realize that we need a single payer system for healthcare.

Thank you Karl Marx. When will Old Rock Engels be around to back you up?

 

[xotoxi]

I'd love to see the statistical evidence you have to support that claim.

I happen to live near the Eastern Maine Medical center, which is one of the largest and closest health care facilities to millions of Canadians.

To date there is no influx of Canadians visiting that place.

There ARE, however, plenty of Mainers who visit Canada to buy their drugs, get medical and dental treatments they cannot afford in America, too.

Odd that the facts are 180 degrees different that you have been informed of, isn't it, Gary D?

Perhaps, you ought to consider the possibly that you are being lied to.

Perhaps you ought to do some research to discover for yourself that you are being lied to, too.

Go ahead, amigo, try thinking for yourself and stop depending on radio hate jocks for your disinformation.

I dare ya'!

EDITECH,

I may have misjudged you. You seem to be a very broadmined and wise individual. Yes we do have our problems with Medicare but we dont go bankrupt when we get ill. Americans have been lied to about Canadian Medicare by the Insurance Industry mostly, and the hate jocks like Rush Limpdick.

That's it in a nutshell.

And these wing nuts are so stupid that they don't understand that they are just shills for the corporate greedheads.

What is ironic is that now even the doctors realize that we need a single payer system for healthcare.

I went to a very frightening lecture last Friday regarding our Healthcare system and how much it costs.

The USA spends $7,000 per capita annually, compared to Canada, which is closer to $2000. That is $28,000 for a family of 4. That is insane. And this price will continue to go up.

The lecturer broke down a lot of the reasons why it costs so much here. One of the reasons is that Americans are afraid of death. In general, we want everything done that is humanly possible to prolong life even a short while. And we do not care about the cost. We also just assume that someone else is paying for it, either our insurance, the government, or if they aren't paying, then the providers of the medical care will just write it off.

In this country, there is no limitation to the treatments that we can get, thus there is no limit to what can be spent. In England, for example, if you have kidney failure and need a transplant, you are not eligible for a transplant if you are over 65 years old. (I may have the specifics wrong on this rule, so forgive me). This rule is based on evidence that transplants in older patients are less successful, and also that their life expectancy is lower to begin with.

A dramatic example of end of life costs that the lecturer gave was for a chemotherapy regimen that is given for terminal colon cancer, which has been shown to extend life from 6.9 months to 8.5 months. This treatment costs $160,000.

We all think that every life is priceless...but is it really worth $160,000 for less than 2 months?

In summary, I learned that the healthcare system in this country is ROYALLY FUCKED, and there really is nothing that can be done about it.

 

[Yukon]

Xotoxi,

I feel very sorry for Americans with repsect to health Care Insurance. You are being cheated. I only hope that Obama does "change" the system - universal medicare is what the American people need. Not next year but NOW !!!

 

[Toro]

I went to a very frightening lecture last Friday regarding our Healthcare system and how much it costs.

The USA spends $7,000 per capita annually, compared to Canada, which is closer to $2000. That is $28,000 for a family of 4. That is insane. And this price will continue to go up.

The lecturer broke down a lot of the reasons why it costs so much here. One of the reasons is that Americans are afraid of death. In general, we want everything done that is humanly possible to prolong life even a short while. And we do not care about the cost. We also just assume that someone else is paying for it, either our insurance, the government, or if they aren't paying, then the providers of the medical care will just write it off.

In this country, there is no limitation to the treatments that we can get, thus there is no limit to what can be spent. In England, for example, if you have kidney failure and need a transplant, you are not eligible for a transplant if you are over 65 years old. (I may have the specifics wrong on this rule, so forgive me). This rule is based on evidence that transplants in older patients are less successful, and also that their life expectancy is lower to begin with.

A dramatic example of end of life costs that the lecturer gave was for a chemotherapy regimen that is given for terminal colon cancer, which has been shown to extend life from 6.9 months to 8.5 months. This treatment costs $160,000.

We all think that every life is priceless...but is it really worth $160,000 for less than 2 months?

In summary, I learned that the healthcare system in this country is ROYALLY FUCKED, and there really is nothing that can be done about it.

I have seen different numbers - that the US spends about $15k per year whereas Canada spends ~$9k per year and other nations spend lower.

I think there are a lot of things the US could do better. However, it is important to note that most of the advances in medical technology occur in the United States in part because of attending to the demands those in the final throws of life.

In Japan, if you have terminal cancer, your chances of receiving expensive life-prolonging treatment are low. Their attitude is, if you are going to die, why pay for it? In Canada and the UK, cutting-edge cancer drugs are limited in their supply for a similar though more humane reason - in a system where resources are limited, cutting-edge treatments are rationed. Even treatments that are not cutting edge are rationed because the government has a limited budget. I remember reading an article about how Taxol was in limited supply in Manitoba.

In America, it is that demand at the end of life which spurs much of the funding for newer products. Take Avastin for example, which is a treatment for cancer. When Avastin was found to be efficacious for lung cancer, it was deemed highly significant in the oncology world because it significantly increased the life span of those taking it in trials by several standard deviations. The increase in life span for those with late stage cancer? From 12 months to 17 months. But it wasn't so much the increase in life span that got the oncology world so excited, it was why it did so (which I won't bore you with here because, frankly, I can't remember why!).

Now Avastin is expensive. At first, it cost $20,000 a treatment. (It is now ~$10k.) The demand came almost exclusively from the American market because Americans think it is worthwhile to extend your life, even if it is by a few months. In Japan, the thinking would be "Why spend $120,000 for one guy that is going to die in six months?" whereas in Canada and the UK, it was more of an issue of not having the funds to spend on the product. Thus, the initial market was almost exclusively in the US.

That initial market is critical for the development of the drug, since commercialization leads to adoption and economies of scale and profits that come back to Genentech, which then uses the resources to increase their R&D budget and discover other uses for Avastin. Now, the price of Avastin has come down and is being sold around the world, though it is still not as readily available elsewhere it is in America. More importantly, the breakthroughs of Avastin that got the oncology profession all excited were originally funded by the American consumer, which then were transferred to the rest of the world. In effect, the American consumer is the initial stage funder of biotechnological breakthroughs for which the world benefits. Such a breakthrough would have been much more difficult in Japan, where there is little incentive to commercialize such an expensive treatment since the government does not want to pay such a high price for end of life treatment.

Oh, and on the Canadian Medicare system, about 1% of Canadians come south to the US for treatments that are unavailable in Canada. When I was living up there, I remember it taking up to 10 months to get an MRI because the medical systems could not afford the machines. So enterprising American entrepreneurs set up MRIs in trailers in border towns to Canadians who wanted an MRI tomorrow and were willing to pay for it. There is a lot wrong with the American medical system but Americans should not feel brow-beaten by anyone (not that they ever do) because all medical systems have flaws.

 

[Chris]

Most of the advances in medical technology come from the United States?

If you look at the list of the Nobel Prize winners for medicine, a lot of them come from universities overseas.

 

[Toro]

Most of the advances in medical technology come from the United States?

If you look at the list of the Nobel Prize winners for medicine, a lot of them come from universities overseas.

Right.

But the majority of commercialized products are developed in America.

Compare the biotechnology industry in America to the rest of the world, for example. It is not even close.

 

[editec]

One cannot help but wonder how much longer Americans can continue to support all this medical research, and how much longer we'll sit idly by while we are forced to pay more for the same medicine as our neighbors to the North.

A bankrupt nation filled with bankrupt people do not offer much in the way of profit potential.

We either find some means to fix this HC system or we will continue driving industry out of the USA just because it costs these industries too much to pay us just because of HC costs.

 

[Yukon]

Did you know that the US government pays all the medical bills for people that are on death row yet will not pay medical bills of children dying of cancer??? Americans alos provide mediacre for Iraqies and members of the Taliban.....

 

[elvis]

Most of the advances in medical technology come from the United States?

If you look at the list of the Nobel Prize winners for medicine, a lot of them come from universities overseas.

proves nothing, like all your posts, Marx.

 

[Chris]

Did you know that the US government pays all the medical bills for people that are on death row yet will not pay medical bills of children dying of cancer??? Americans alos provide mediacre for Iraqies and members of the Taliban.....

It's amazing, isn't it?

Medicine for profit is a very cruel thing.

 

[elvis]

Did you know that the US government pays all the medical bills for people that are on death row yet will not pay medical bills of children dying of cancer??? Americans alos provide mediacre for Iraqies and members of the Taliban.....

It's amazing, isn't it?

Medicine for profit is a very cruel thing.

Is that in the communist manifesto?

 

[Yukon]

"Is that in the communist manifesto?" No, it's reality.

 

[elvis]

"Is that in the communist manifesto?" No, it's reality.

profit is evil? sounds like communism to me.

 

[DiveCon]

"Is that in the communist manifesto?" No, it's reality.

you are out of touch with reality if you think chris is even in the same zip code with reality

 

[Toro]

"Is that in the communist manifesto?" No, it's reality.

Yes, it is a reality that there are very few drug discoveries in Canada.

 

[DiveCon]

"Is that in the communist manifesto?" No, it's reality.

Yes, it is a reality that there are very few drug discoveries in Canada.

thats why your tax dollars subsidize importing of meds from America

gotta wonder how long you will like Americans coming up there to buy your tax payer subsidized meds