Americans have had over 200 years to prove democracy can work, but...

[Kondor3]

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Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. It needs to fail.



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To be replaced by WHAT pray-tell?

 

[Dragonlady]

That is THE definition of democracy -- it comes from the people who invented it.
If you have to change a definition to make your point, your point fails.
Thus, your point fails.


“A republic, if you can keep it.”
- Ben Franklin

That is THE definition of democracy -- it comes from the people who invented it.
If you have to change a definition to make your point, your point fails.
Thus, your point fails.


“A republic, if you can keep it.”
- Ben Franklin

There are different forms of Democracy. You've described Direct Democracy. A Republic is a form of Representative Democracy:

"Government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them (as in the small republics of antiquity) or by officers elected by them".

https://www.oed.com/oed2/00060572

 

[Dragonlady]

So you (a leftist) are saying that you're all for that “leftist” Second Amendment? You're for “free speech” and opposed to YouTube, FaceBook, and Twitter censorship? You're all for the “right to life” and opposed to abortion? Really … that's what you're saying?

Define "free speech", because there really isn't any such thing.

Lies and deceptions are "fraud" and are illegal.

Inciting the overthrow of government is "sedition" which is also illegal.

Saying you'll kill someone is "threatening", yelling fire in a crowded theatre when there's no fire is "reckless endangerment", calling your neighbour a pedophile will get you sued for slander, so please define free speech for me Jackson.

The Second Amendment should have been repealled when the National Guards were created. Hunting weapons and reacreational shooting are fine with lockbox storage, and safety classes mandatory. My family owns hunt camps and sport hunting is a big tourist business. But handguns for everyone, concealled carry weapons, no.

The higher the rate of gun ownership in a state, the higher the rate of violent gun crime and murder. Gun violence is the leading cause of death for children under the age of 18. So don't give me that bullshit about abortion being all about "saving innocent lives" because you don't give a shit about children.

I'm all for choice and a woman's right to self determination. Not having an abortion is a choice. If you think its wrong, don't have one, but you have no right to tell ANY woman what she can and cannot do with her life.

 

[ActionJackson]

Define "free speech", because there really isn't any such thing.

Lies and deceptions are "fraud" and are illegal.

Inciting the overthrow of government is "sedition" which is also illegal.

Saying you'll kill someone is "threatening", yelling fire in a crowded theatre when there's no fire is "reckless endangerment", calling your neighbour a pedophile will get you sued for slander, so please define free speech for me Jackson.

The Second Amendment should have been repealled when the National Guards were created. Hunting weapons and reacreational shooting are fine with lockbox storage, and safety classes mandatory. My family owns hunt camps and sport hunting is a big tourist business. But handguns for everyone, concealled carry weapons, no.

The higher the rate of gun ownership in a state, the higher the rate of violent gun crime and murder. Gun violence is the leading cause of death for children under the age of 18. So don't give me that bullshit about abortion being all about "saving innocent lives" because you don't give a shit about children.

I'm all for choice and a woman's right to self determination. Not having an abortion is a choice. If you think its wrong, don't have one, but you have no right to tell ANY woman what she can and cannot do with her life.

You claim that the Founders were “leftists.” They gave us the 1st Amendment which guaranteed “freedom of speech” and now you (a leftist) state there's no such thing as “freedom of speech.” So are the Founders “leftists” or are they not. Stop talking in complete circles.

 

[Dragonlady]

I generally agree but there are LOTS of other sites that refer to our country as "The United States of America."

The Pledge:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I referred to your country as the United States of America. What I said was that your country's name isn't "America". America is the name of the continent, not the country.

 

[ActionJackson]

I referred to your country as the United States of America. What I said was that your country's name isn't "America". America is the name of the continent, not the country.

But the pledge literally calls my country "the United States of America." Hard to miss.

 

[Dragonlady]

You claim that the Founders were “leftists.” They gave us the 1st Amendment which guaranteed “freedom of speech” and now you (a leftist) state there's no such thing as “freedom of speech.” So are the Founders “leftists” or are they not. Stop talking in complete circles.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

But Congress has passed laws banning blood sacrifice, ritual genital mutiliation, and similar religious practices. I'm not disagreeing with these laws, but they would seem to go against the words in the Constitution.

Similarly, F0X just paid a huge settlement to Dominion for knowingly lying about their products so "freedom of the press" isn't absolute either.

And all of the limitations on free speech I posted above still exist. And you continue to support all of Ron DeSantis prohibitions on free speech in regards to gays, racism, - the whole anti-woke slate of laws.

You deny the 14th Amendment in regards to privacy in health care, and ignore the qualification of the need for a well-regulated militia being the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

In the Wild West, it was accepted that guns were necessary out on the road, but when you came into town, you took your guns off. There have been restrictions on firearms throughout your history untl the last 40 years.

The legendary Gunfight at the 0K Corral, happened because the Earps wouldn't allow the Clantons to bring their guns into Tombstone. The were supposed to hand them over to the Sheriff on arrival and pick them up when they left town.

 

[Dragonlady]

But the pledge literally calls my country "the United States of America." Hard to miss.

Nobody was talking about the Pledge of allegiance except you. We were talking about name the USA.

 

[ActionJackson]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

But Congress has passed laws banning blood sacrifice, ritual genital mutiliation, and similar religious practices. I'm not disagreeing with these laws, but they would seem to go against the words in the Constitution.

Similarly, F0X just paid a huge settlement to Dominion for knowingly lying about their products so "freedom of the press" isn't absolute either.

And all of the limitations on free speech I posted above still exist. And you continue to support all of Ron DeSantis prohibitions on free speech in regards to gays, racism, - the whole anti-woke slate of laws.

You deny the 14th Amendment in regards to privacy in health care, and ignore the qualification of the need for a well-regulated militia being the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

In the Wild West, it was accepted that guns were necessary out on the road, but when you came into town, you took your guns off. There have been restrictions on firearms throughout your history untl the last 40 years.

The legendary Gunfight at the 0K Corral, happened because the Earps wouldn't allow the Clantons to bring their guns into Tombstone. The were supposed to hand them over to the Sheriff on arrival and pick them up when they left town.

The Continental-Confederation Congress, a legislative body that governed the United States from 1774 to 1789, contained an extraordinary number of deeply religious men. The amount of energy that Congress invested in encouraging the practice of religion in the new nation exceeded that expended by any subsequent American national government. Although the Articles of Confederation did not officially authorize Congress to concern itself with religion, the citizenry did not object to such activities. This lack of objection suggests that both the legislators and the public considered it appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity.

Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they "should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears." Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

The first national government of the United States, was convinced that the "public prosperity" of a society depended on the vitality of its religion. Nothing less than a "spirit of universal reformation among all ranks and degrees of our citizens," Congress declared to the American people, would "make us a holy, that so we may be a happy people."

Religion and the Congress of the Confederation - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions (Library of Congress)

The Continental-Confederation Congress, a legislative body that governed the United States from 1774 to 1789, contained a number of deeply religious men. Although the Articles of Confederation did not officially authorize Congress to concern itself with religion, the citizenry did not object to...

www.loc.gov

 

[ActionJackson]

Nobody was talking about the Pledge of allegiance except you. We were talking about name the USA.

And the name, "The United States of America" can be found in numerous places. The national pledge being one of many.

 

[Flash]

Leftest greed is destroying our Constitutional republic.

 

[ActionJackson]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

But Congress has passed laws banning blood sacrifice, ritual genital mutiliation, and similar religious practices. I'm not disagreeing with these laws, but they would seem to go against the words in the Constitution.

Similarly, F0X just paid a huge settlement to Dominion for knowingly lying about their products so "freedom of the press" isn't absolute either.

And all of the limitations on free speech I posted above still exist. And you continue to support all of Ron DeSantis prohibitions on free speech in regards to gays, racism, - the whole anti-woke slate of laws.

You deny the 14th Amendment in regards to privacy in health care, and ignore the qualification of the need for a well-regulated militia being the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

In the Wild West, it was accepted that guns were necessary out on the road, but when you came into town, you took your guns off. There have been restrictions on firearms throughout your history untl the last 40 years.

The legendary Gunfight at the 0K Corral, happened because the Earps wouldn't allow the Clantons to bring their guns into Tombstone. The were supposed to hand them over to the Sheriff on arrival and pick them up when they left town.

Passing no laws concerning the establishment of religion was meant to protect the various Christian sects FROM the government. If you understand the founding of this nation, you know that King George was antagonistic towards all Christian sects except the one he belonged to (which he made the official, national religion).

It's a good thing the boys of the OK Corral didn't give up their guns, else they were sitting ducks. I wouldn't have given up my guns, either. It was their Constitutional right to carry self-protection, and the Earps had no business infringing upon those rights.

I'm all for healthcare … even for small, helpless, unborn babies. And I believe that seeking healthcare is a right, but I'm opposed to forcing some people to pay for other people's healthcare. If you want it? Earn it like everyone else has to. For them who simply can't afford it -- they can appeal to lots of charities who deal in that sort of thing.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You saying it doesn't make it true Jackson. The American Constitution was the most radical leftist documents in world history.....

The US Constitution is a document of its time, written by men of their time. This is a different time and a different world.

The term you're looking for is "liberal"
And Classic American liberalism in only tangentially and vaguely related to modern American liberalism.
If alive today, you;d refer to the people involved in writing the constitution as right wing extremists.

Just the idea that all men were created equal and could decide who they wanted to lead the nation was a hair on fire radical concept at a time when the USA was one of two democracies in the world....

The US Constitution did not create a democracy.

 

[M14 Shooter]

There are different forms of Democracy. You've described Direct Democracy.

No.... I described Democracy, period.
As soon as you remove the people from direct participation in the creation of policy, you no longer have a democracy.

A Republic is a form of Representative Democracy:

There's nothing inherently democratic in a republic.

Which is, of course, what the US is
“A republic, if you can keep it.”
- Ben Franklin

 

[M14 Shooter]

Define "free speech", because there really isn't any such thing.

Lies and deceptions are "fraud" and are illegal.

Inciting the overthrow of government is "sedition" which is also illegal.

Saying you'll kill someone is "threatening", yelling fire in a crowded theatre when there's no fire is "reckless endangerment", calling your neighbour a pedophile will get you sued for slander, so please define free speech for me Jackson.

The Second Amendment should have been repealled when the National Guards were created. Hunting weapons and reacreational shooting are fine with lockbox storage, and safety classes mandatory. My family owns hunt camps and sport hunting is a big tourist business. But handguns for everyone, concealled carry weapons, no.

The higher the rate of gun ownership in a state, the higher the rate of violent gun crime and murder. Gun violence is the leading cause of death for children under the age of 18. So don't give me that bullshit about abortion being all about "saving innocent lives" because you don't give a shit about children.

I'm all for choice and a woman's right to self determination. Not having an abortion is a choice. If you think its wrong, don't have one, but you have no right to tell ANY woman what she can and cannot do with her life.

You made his point.
Well done.

 

[zaangalewa]

The name of our country is “The United States of America.”

“The United States of America (U.S.A. or USA), commonly known as the United States (U.S. or US) or America,”

United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Exactly. The word "America" which you use is a short form of USA. But the same word "America" which Unkotare is using means only the USA is America and no one else. We Germans normally use the expression "US-America" if we speak only about the USA. Uncotare attacks me continously because I do so. But I am not an American at all. For me it is an important difference to speak with an American from the USA (US-American) or to speak with an American in general. Perhaps you are able to enlighten me: How is it possible that someone feels hurted - better to say: likes to attack others because of the own aggressions - if I call him and his people "US-Americans". Can it be he is not an US-American but another American who likes to hide this? Or what else could be the "shame" to be called an "US-American" instead to be called "American"?

 

[zaangalewa]

Thankfully, we are not a democracy.

One man one vote - your are a democracy

We are a Constitutional republic.

rulership is a public matter where some people get special orders to take care for the people of the USA. You are a constitutional republic legitimized by the people of the USA.

 

[BackAgain]

One man one vote - your are a democracy

Nope. That’s not what the word means. And we aren’t a democracy. Thank God.

rulership is a public matter where some people get special orders to take care for the people of the USA. You are a constitutional republic legitimized by the people of the USA.

We are a Constitutional republic. Not a democracy.

 

[zaangalewa]

Define "free speech", because there really isn't any such thing. ...

The last time I made a "free speech" was in a restaurant in one of the modern malls in Germany. A mother spoke with her child in her own language which was not German. And because at this time in TV the problem was discussed that many people are not able to speak German any longer some people got angry and said the mother should try to speak with her child in German. I made a little speech in our local dialect - sounds not very German on its own - where I remembered my people not to be like modern Prussians and not to forget our own motto "live and let live". I said for sure has every mother in the world the right to speak with her child in her own mother tongue. My people - and also I - hate it very much if someone is doing so because we also hate "teachers" - but they saw I was right and accepted grumpy what I said. The funny thing: The mother understood nothing from our little dispute and continued to do whatever she was doing. A storm in a tea cup. I hope all storms are able to stay to be only storms in a tea cup.

 

[zaangalewa]

Nope. That’s not what the word means. And we aren’t a democracy. Thank God.


We are a Constitutional republic. Not a democracy.

To "say" my arguments are not existing and to stay in the own opinion means nothing. Why do you say so? "Democracy" for example has not really something to do with political parties. Democracy means to accept the political will of the very most people. The very most people of the USA don't vote for a special president for example. A president is only elected from about 20% of all living US-Americans. But a president of the USA has to be president of all US-Americans - or he is no president at all.