America's greatness is its working classes not "wealth" creators

[EconChick]

Silver platter, like the Bushes.

You talk to the laboring men and women and offer them your opinion.

Fuck you, moron. I come from a blue collar family. I put myself through school with plenty of blue collar jobs so spare me your union thuggery bullshit.

How in the fuck did this message board get stuck with a worthless piece of shit like econbitch? Anyone know?

Dear Moderators,

My preference about rules would be complete laissez-faire guidelines.....allow free speech to reign, short of death threats....and to let people say anything they want.

But since there have been a number of moderator comments about trolling in this thread, I'm assuming my desire to respond in kind to the above troll will be frowned upon.

Please advise if I can respond in kind or not.


Thanks.

Econbitch

 

[Erand7899]

If ignorance is bliss, some here are already in paradise. Misinformation, half truths, and outright lies tacked onto ideology is understandable, if not acceptable, except when it is put forth with such hate and bile.

Workers are responsible for very few improvements in productivity. Productivity is almost entirely an outcome of capital investment and improved technology. However, some of the ignorant here seem to believe that increased productivity means the workers working harder. It often means less workers.

Middle class means different things to different people. Consequently, unless you can define what middle class you are referring to, your statistics on the health, wealth, and earnings of the middle class are worthless.

The large corporations, and the 1%ers can easily take care of themselves, and need no support from Republicans or conservatives. The financial entities we care about are the individuals, companies, and corporations who are trying hard to grow and join the 1%ers. They are the people who create jobs, and drive our economy. Why does the idiot brigade want to hurt these entities?

What it boils down to is a shoddy mob of so called progressives, venting their greed, envy, and hate for those who do better in life.

 

[EconChick]

If ignorance is bliss, some here are already in paradise. Misinformation, half truths, and outright lies tacked onto ideology is understandable, if not acceptable, except when it is put forth with such hate and bile.

Workers are responsible for very few improvements in productivity. Productivity is almost entirely an outcome of capital investment and improved technology. However, some of the ignorant here seem to believe that increased productivity means the workers working harder. It often means less workers.

Middle class means different things to different people. Consequently, unless you can define what middle class you are referring to, your statistics on the health, wealth, and earnings of the middle class are worthless.

The large corporations, and the 1%ers can easily take care of themselves, and need no support from Republicans or conservatives. The financial entities we care about are the individuals, companies, and corporations who are trying hard to grow and join the 1%ers. They are the people who create jobs, and drive our economy. Why does the idiot brigade want to hurt these entities?

What it boils down to is a shoddy mob of so called progressives, venting their greed, envy, and hate for those who do better in life.

SO.WELL.SAID

And the word "middle class" is a nebulous word, just as you say.

There is no one definition, not even close.

 

[EconChick]

What it boils down to is a shoddy mob of so called progressives, venting their greed, envy, and hate for those who do better in life.

Actually, Erand, if you don't mind, I like repeating nice profound, succinct posts like yours.

 

[EconChick]

Jakey Fakey's a socialist. Now it all makes sense. You're not a Republican you fucking liar.

They are all socialist now Econ. Democratic Party of Truman or even JFK is dead.

Not socialists, social Democrats, and there is a difference. They don't want Cuba, they want Sweden.

They're becoming bolder about what they want, which is good, we need to have the conversation. This thread is a good example..

I created wealth because I had customers to buy my products. No customers, business fails. Ask your professors about that, EconChick.

Econchick believes that a businessman who understands the role of workers and consumers in the American economy is a socialist, which is fail on her part.

The far right once again willfully confuses socialism with social democratic economics.

The millenials will kick it up their asses. EconChick, Rik, and Bush92 are dinosaurs caught in the Mises tar pits; they are doomed.

The conversation is perfectly reasonable. But it would be helpful if you folks were more open and honest about what you want. Once that happens we can hopefully have constructive dialogue.

.

Mac this isn't criticism of your post....just a comment. If you've gone back and forth on economics as much as I have with Jakey, you'd realize he isn't talking about social Democrats.

He has no idea what he's talking about, and there certainly are business owners that are Socialists, but I've never EVER seen one in my life talk with such self-loathing and poor self esteem about being a business owner as Jakey does. Plus he lies and tells people he's a Republican out of low self esteem as well.

What we have here is someone with serious psychiatric issues.

 

[Erand7899]

Jake Starkey wrote:
Good managerial efficiency means taking care of your workers so that they will adopt company strategies and goals. I created wealth because I had customers to buy my products. No customers, business fails. Ask your professors about that.

Your professors will also tell you that when all you can do is ad hom is notice that you have failed the discussion.
_______________________________________________________

You don't create wealth by selling a product. You just redistribute the wealth that someone else created. You only create wealth by adding value to a marketable product. Farmers create wealth. Miners create wealth. Drillers create wealth. Refiners create wealth. Manufacturers create wealth. Wholesalers create a little weath. Retailers do not create any wealth.

Whenever you have a government hindering the wealth creaters, through unnecessary regulations, red tape, and excess taxes, you can expect the overall standard of living to decline. It should be obvious that when less wealth is created, their is less to pass around.

 

[EconChick]

Good managerial efficiency means taking care of your workers so that they will adopt company strategies and goals. I created wealth because I had customers to buy my products. No customers, business fails.

Noooooooooooooo shit. Really? Everyone knows that, moron.

That's as basic as 2 +2=4.

I think you're suffering from Alzheimers perhaps. You sound dumber and dumber with each post.

 

[Erand7899]

A modern, high tech world requires well educated, high tech workers to make it work properly. Consequently, well educated, high tech workers are in high demand for good paying jobs with benefits. Those who do not make the effort to get educated and skilled, will not fare well in this new world.

Fewer, and fewer jobs exist for unskilled workers, and these are being taken by legal and illegal immigrants who have a much higher work ethic than their unskilled, uneducated American counterparts.

For fifty to sixty years, while the world has become more high tech, liberal policies and government/public union collusion, have dumbed down the output of our public schools. At the same time our universities and colleges have become more concerned with political correctness and social reform than turning out the well educated and skilled people that our economy needs.

If someone carefully planned the downfall of a great nation, that is exactly how they would accomplish the task.

 

[Erand7899]

The stupidity of the average conservative on this issue is that he doesn't realize that the Rich won't do him any special favors just because he sucks up to them. He's getting screwed as much as the next person.
_________________________________________________________

The average conservative does not expect any special favors from the rich, or from anyone else. The only times that I have ever been screwed, I did it to myself through ignorance and/or inattention. To my knowledge, no rich people have ever tried to screw me. I was robbed once, at knife point, but I don't believe the robbers were rich people. I have also had things stolen from me by people that I trusted, but they weren't rich people either.

The vast majority of rich people do not even know that I exist. So, I seriously doubt that any of them are plotting to screw me. Perhap you loons have a severe misunderstanding of "classism" and are overly paranoid by how it affects you individually.

 

[ricechickie]

A modern, high tech world requires well educated, high tech workers to make it work properly. Consequently, well educated, high tech workers are in high demand for good paying jobs with benefits. Those who do not make the effort to get educated and skilled, will not fare well in this new world.

Fewer, and fewer jobs exist for unskilled workers, and these are being taken by legal and illegal immigrants who have a much higher work ethic than their unskilled, uneducated American counterparts.

For fifty to sixty years, while the world has become more high tech, liberal policies and government/public union collusion, have dumbed down the output of our public schools. At the same time our universities and colleges have become more concerned with political correctness and social reform than turning out the well educated and skilled people that our economy needs.

If someone carefully planned the downfall of a great nation, that is exactly how they would accomplish the task.

You misspelled "lower standard of living."

 

[Erand7899]

Any worker starts with 10,7% of their wages being taken for FICA taxes. Another 7% to 9% of their wages go to sales taxes. Add in real estate taxes, gas taxes, and various fees, and the worker is down 20% before he even gets to income taxes.

Add on to that the average 15% effective income tax rate, and you can easily see that a worker with a good pay check is forking over more than one third of his paycheck to government.

Then, the icing on the cake. After forking over a substantial portion of his paycheck to various levels of government, this same smuck is ususally charged a hefty fee for any government service he needs to use.

 

[EconChick]

A modern, high tech world requires well educated, high tech workers to make it work properly. Consequently, well educated, high tech workers are in high demand for good paying jobs with benefits. Those who do not make the effort to get educated and skilled, will not fare well in this new world.

Fewer, and fewer jobs exist for unskilled workers, and these are being taken by legal and illegal immigrants who have a much higher work ethic than their unskilled, uneducated American counterparts.

For fifty to sixty years, while the world has become more high tech, liberal policies and government/public union collusion, have dumbed down the output of our public schools. At the same time our universities and colleges have become more concerned with political correctness and social reform than turning out the well educated and skilled people that our economy needs.

If someone carefully planned the downfall of a great nation, that is exactly how they would accomplish the task.

Anyone who wants to move upward can with enough work, perseverance, and sacrifice. Problem is a lot of these slackers don't want to put in the time the rest of us have.

They'd rather join a union (not all unions bad) and point to "the man" for their woes instead of getting off their assess like the rest of us do when we hit challenges.

 

[EconChick]

A modern, high tech world requires well educated, high tech workers to make it work properly. Consequently, well educated, high tech workers are in high demand for good paying jobs with benefits. Those who do not make the effort to get educated and skilled, will not fare well in this new world.

Fewer, and fewer jobs exist for unskilled workers, and these are being taken by legal and illegal immigrants who have a much higher work ethic than their unskilled, uneducated American counterparts.

For fifty to sixty years, while the world has become more high tech, liberal policies and government/public union collusion, have dumbed down the output of our public schools. At the same time our universities and colleges have become more concerned with political correctness and social reform than turning out the well educated and skilled people that our economy needs.

If someone carefully planned the downfall of a great nation, that is exactly how they would accomplish the task.

You misspelled "lower standard of living."

Then get off your ass and work for a higher one. Do you know how many poor people who've worked their way up despise this type of excuse making?

 

[ricechickie]

Then get off your ass and work for a higher one. Do you know how many poor people who've worked their way up despise this type of excuse making?

Do you know how many full-time workers are being told that they don't deserve to even reach the federal poverty level?

 

[NYcarbineer]

If ignorance is bliss, some here are already in paradise. Misinformation, half truths, and outright lies tacked onto ideology is understandable, if not acceptable, except when it is put forth with such hate and bile.

Workers are responsible for very few improvements in productivity. Productivity is almost entirely an outcome of capital investment and improved technology. However, some of the ignorant here seem to believe that increased productivity means the workers working harder. It often means less workers.

Middle class means different things to different people. Consequently, unless you can define what middle class you are referring to, your statistics on the health, wealth, and earnings of the middle class are worthless.

The large corporations, and the 1%ers can easily take care of themselves, and need no support from Republicans or conservatives. The financial entities we care about are the individuals, companies, and corporations who are trying hard to grow and join the 1%ers. They are the people who create jobs, and drive our economy. Why does the idiot brigade want to hurt these entities?

What it boils down to is a shoddy mob of so called progressives, venting their greed, envy, and hate for those who do better in life.

 

[martybegan]

If ignorance is bliss, some here are already in paradise. Misinformation, half truths, and outright lies tacked onto ideology is understandable, if not acceptable, except when it is put forth with such hate and bile.

Workers are responsible for very few improvements in productivity. Productivity is almost entirely an outcome of capital investment and improved technology. However, some of the ignorant here seem to believe that increased productivity means the workers working harder. It often means less workers.

Middle class means different things to different people. Consequently, unless you can define what middle class you are referring to, your statistics on the health, wealth, and earnings of the middle class are worthless.

The large corporations, and the 1%ers can easily take care of themselves, and need no support from Republicans or conservatives. The financial entities we care about are the individuals, companies, and corporations who are trying hard to grow and join the 1%ers. They are the people who create jobs, and drive our economy. Why does the idiot brigade want to hurt these entities?

What it boils down to is a shoddy mob of so called progressives, venting their greed, envy, and hate for those who do better in life.

you of course missed the point, and quoted it at the same time, as usual.

Productivity boosts come from capital investment in technology, which has to be paid for.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why are conservatives so happy that the US is a nation in decline?

 

[martybegan]

Why are conservatives so happy that the US is a nation in decline?

Why is your party enjoying taking such an active part in making the decline reality?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why are conservatives so happy that the US is a nation in decline?

Why is your party enjoying taking such an active part in making the decline reality?

It's not liberals who want bust unions, send jobs overseas, level the playing field between third world and American labor,

is it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

T
The Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.

Over the past 60 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105% – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 = 96%
2007 = 92%

A 13% drop since 1980

2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

An increase of 16% since Reagan.

3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

A 12.3% drop after Reagan.

4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

A 5.6 times increase.

6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 = 6%
1990 = 3%
2000 = 2%

A 10% Decrease.

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg image
2 – Congratulations to Emmanuel Saez The White House
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis BEA
4 = http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/household-sector-debt-of-gdp
4 = FRB Z.1 Release--Financial Accounts of the United States--June 5 2014
5/6 = Wealth And Inequality In America - Business Insider

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts


Tax the richest and giant corps their fair share, and invest in Americans. Under Voodoo, the richest pay less than anyone in all taxes and fees...hater dupes believe a giant pile of bs from the greedy idiot megarich.

Hey, lets import 10 million more low-skilled illegals, that'll fix things! Idiot.