Debate Now An Unhappy Birthday for Obamacare?

[Greenbeard]

Really ? Someone wants us to believe that this many people died every year because of "poor care" in hospitals. . .

I have to say that if that many people were dying, there should have been a public outcry and someone should have gone to jail.

Bottom line is that I don't buy the claim to be that large.

Our system, particularly our hospitals, has had a well-known problem with patient safety for a long time. The Institute of Medicine sounded the alarm 16 years ago in To Err is Human. At that time, they pegged the number of deaths caused by the system as being as high as 98,000 a year. More recent research suggests the real numbers are potentially substantially higher than that--which Leapfrog, the group that monitors patient safety indicators in hospitals and issues hospital-specific grades, points out makes medical errors the third leading cause of death in the U.S.

That 2010 HHS IG report you're talking about actually looked at what happened to a representative sample of Medicare beneficiaries who were hospitalized in 2008. They found that 13.5% who went into the hospital experienced some kind of adverse event, i.e. harm that results from their care (1.5 percent of Medicare beneficiaries experienced an event that contributed to their deaths)--nearly half of those events were judged by physician reviewers to be preventable.

And yes, there should be more public outcry. But I doubt the average person is even aware the problem exists, much less the scope of it.

If hospitals were really that unsafe (and it would be great to know just what so unsafe), I'd be astounded that someone like Barbara Boxer wasn't using it as a campaign issue.

I can't really tell if you're serious here. Boxer Releases New Report on Medical Errors

Friday, April 25th 2014

Washington, D.C. –Today in Los Angeles, U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) released a new report detailing the most common and harmful errors at our nation’s hospitals and what hospitals in California are doing to prevent them.

“We have the opportunity to save not just one life, but to save hundreds of thousands of lives. Many people will be shocked to hear this, but medical errors are one of the leading causes of death in America today,” Senator Boxer said. “These deaths are all the more heartbreaking for families because they are preventable.”

Every year, between 210,000 and 440,000 Americans die as a result of preventable errors in hospitals, such as hospital-acquired infections, adverse drug reactions, patient falls and bedsores - numbers equivalent to a jumbo jet crashing every day with no survivors. Research has also found that the direct costs of medical errors total $19.5 billion annually and that the economic costs of medical errors, including lost productivity, could be as much as $1 trillion a year.

The Senate paid some attention to this just last summer: Subcommittee hearing - More Than 1,000 Preventable Deaths a Day Is Too Many: The Need to Improve Patient Safety

"I haven't heard about this so it can't be true" isn't a very good argument, particularly for something as well-known as this problem.

Now, what's changing is that for the first time there's been a concerted national effort--engaging 3,700 hospitals representing four of five hospital discharges in the U.S. and accompanied by a host of policy changes to make it stick--to start tackling this problem: the Partnership for Patients.

The Partnership for Patients (PfP) is a very large national quality improvement learning collaborative with two aims: to improve safety in acute care hospitals and to improve coordination of care at discharge to prevent readmissions. The PfP is much more than a collection of hospital engagement network (HEN) contracts. It is a public-private partnership that seeks national change by setting clear aims, aligning and engaging multiple Federal partners and programs, aligning and engaging multiple private partners and payers, and establishing a national learning network through a CMS investment in 26 HEN contractors. These contractors successfully enrolled more than 3,700 acute care hospitals in the initiative and had these hospitals engaged in achieving the aims throughout 2012, 2013, and 2014. These hospitals account for 80 percent of the Nation's acute care discharges.

Simultaneously, CMS pursued aligned changes in payment policy, a nationwide program of technical assistance aimed at improving hospital safety and care coordination through the Nation's Quality Improvement Organizations (QIOs), and a program of work through the CMS Innovation Center known as the "Community-based Care Transitions Program" (CCTP). The purpose of CCTP is to also improve care transitions from inpatient hospitals to other care settings for high-risk Medicare beneficiaries, while documenting savings to the Medicare program. All these programs were designed to work in synergy and cooperation with one another. The PfP is a fully aligned "full-court press" to achieve two aims: 40 percent reduction in preventable harm and 20 percent reduction in 30 day readmissions.

Part of the ACA's PR problem (beyond the obvious partisan affiliation issues) is that most people aren't even aware of some of the problems it's been working to correct.

 

[Foxfyre]

Really ? Someone wants us to believe that this many people died every year because of "poor care" in hospitals. . .

I have to say that if that many people were dying, there should have been a public outcry and someone should have gone to jail.

Bottom line is that I don't buy the claim to be that large.

Our system, particularly our hospitals, has had a well-known problem with patient safety for a long time. The Institute of Medicine sounded the alarm 16 years ago in To Err is Human. At that time, they pegged the number of deaths caused by the system as being as high as 98,000 a year. More recent research suggests the real numbers are potentially substantially higher than that--which Leapfrog, the group that monitors patient safety indicators in hospitals and issues hospital-specific grades, points out makes medical errors the third leading cause of death in the U.S.

That 2010 HHS IG report you're talking about actually looked at what happened to a representative sample of Medicare beneficiaries who were hospitalized in 2008. They found that 13.5% who went into the hospital experienced some kind of adverse event, i.e. harm that results from their care (1.5 percent of Medicare beneficiaries experienced an event that contributed to their deaths)--nearly half of those events were judged by physician reviewers to be preventable.

And yes, there should be more public outcry. But I doubt the average person is even aware the problem exists, much less the scope of it.

If hospitals were really that unsafe (and it would be great to know just what so unsafe), I'd be astounded that someone like Barbara Boxer wasn't using it as a campaign issue.

I can't really tell if you're serious here. Boxer Releases New Report on Medical Errors

Friday, April 25th 2014

Washington, D.C. –Today in Los Angeles, U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) released a new report detailing the most common and harmful errors at our nation’s hospitals and what hospitals in California are doing to prevent them.

“We have the opportunity to save not just one life, but to save hundreds of thousands of lives. Many people will be shocked to hear this, but medical errors are one of the leading causes of death in America today,” Senator Boxer said. “These deaths are all the more heartbreaking for families because they are preventable.”

Every year, between 210,000 and 440,000 Americans die as a result of preventable errors in hospitals, such as hospital-acquired infections, adverse drug reactions, patient falls and bedsores - numbers equivalent to a jumbo jet crashing every day with no survivors. Research has also found that the direct costs of medical errors total $19.5 billion annually and that the economic costs of medical errors, including lost productivity, could be as much as $1 trillion a year.

The Senate paid some attention to this just last summer: Subcommittee hearing - More Than 1,000 Preventable Deaths a Day Is Too Many: The Need to Improve Patient Safety

"I haven't heard about this so it can't be true" isn't a very good argument, particularly for something as well-known as this problem.

Now, what's changing is that for the first time there's been a concerted national effort--engaging 3,700 hospitals representing four of five hospital discharges in the U.S. and accompanied by a host of policy changes to make it stick--to start tackling this problem: the Partnership for Patients.

The Partnership for Patients (PfP) is a very large national quality improvement learning collaborative with two aims: to improve safety in acute care hospitals and to improve coordination of care at discharge to prevent readmissions. The PfP is much more than a collection of hospital engagement network (HEN) contracts. It is a public-private partnership that seeks national change by setting clear aims, aligning and engaging multiple Federal partners and programs, aligning and engaging multiple private partners and payers, and establishing a national learning network through a CMS investment in 26 HEN contractors. These contractors successfully enrolled more than 3,700 acute care hospitals in the initiative and had these hospitals engaged in achieving the aims throughout 2012, 2013, and 2014. These hospitals account for 80 percent of the Nation's acute care discharges.

Simultaneously, CMS pursued aligned changes in payment policy, a nationwide program of technical assistance aimed at improving hospital safety and care coordination through the Nation's Quality Improvement Organizations (QIOs), and a program of work through the CMS Innovation Center known as the "Community-based Care Transitions Program" (CCTP). The purpose of CCTP is to also improve care transitions from inpatient hospitals to other care settings for high-risk Medicare beneficiaries, while documenting savings to the Medicare program. All these programs were designed to work in synergy and cooperation with one another. The PfP is a fully aligned "full-court press" to achieve two aims: 40 percent reduction in preventable harm and 20 percent reduction in 30 day readmissions.

Part of the ACA's PR problem (beyond the obvious partisan affiliation issues) is that most people aren't even aware of some of the problems it's been working to correct.

But if it is working so hard to correct problems, why aren't the ACA people shouting that from the rooftops? They aren't. Which suggests to me that they know their report card is pretty bad and they do not wish to publicize it.

And even the good stuff that anybody can point to in the ACA does not justify dismantling the entire U.S. healthcare system in order to address problems that could have been addressed long ago for a far sight less money, with far better results, and far less disruption and negative consequences.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Are hospitals getting safer? Yes. ("U.S. hospitals make fewer serious errors; 50,000 lives saved")

I'll take your responses one at a time as I have time.

This claim and the associated article don't make any sense.

This is from the article:

In 2010, the HHS inspector general estimated that poor care in hospitals contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients covered by Medicare, which insures the disabled and those 65 or older, every year.

Really ? Someone wants us to believe that this many people died every year because of "poor care" in hospitals.

That pretty much pales against the Harvard BS study that said 47,000 people a year die because of a lack of health insurance (even though the left could never produce any of the names of the over 500,000 people who should have died since the study was published).

I have to say that if that many people were dying, there should have been a public outcry and someone should have gone to jail.

Bottom line is that I don't buy the claim to be that large.

This came from another article:

Hospitals prevented nearly 15,000 deaths and 560,000 injuries by reducing additional illnesses and infections acquired in the hospital, preliminary data from the Health and Human Services Department show.

Are Hospital Patients Healthier Under Obamacare - NationalJournal.com

If hospitals were really that unsafe (and it would be great to know just what so unsafe), I'd be astounded that someone like Barbara Boxer wasn't using it as a campaign issue.

This just does not pass the smell test.

And BTW: These four hospitals are now really safe:

Fourth Georgia hospital closes due to Obamacare cuts The Daily Caller

All of which goes to show the extreme mischaracterization and hyperbole that results from partisan eagerness to defend even the indefensible.

How many times have we seen it claimed that some in Congress cut or wanted to cut the budget for some presumable 'noble' purposes when in fact all that was proposed or implemented was a smaller increase than was initially requested. The actual budget or spending was not cut at all, but rather increased, just not as much as some wanted it to.

Likewise, I am seeing the same kind of argument applied to Obamacare. They see a factoid that enrollments are more than first thought or that costs for this or that are lower than they were projected to be as a triumph that Obamacare is working. They won't acknowledge that just because the increase in a cost was 25% instead of a projected 30% is not a huge endorsement. The fact that the worse case scenario didn't happen does mean that it wasn't bad.

I am not as willing to slam the door on this one yet.

I was just saying that, at first glance, this one looks fishy.

In the first place the estimates are all over the map.

But more importantly, that means that 180,000/320,000,000 (or 0.05 of one percent) of the total population dies each year because of hospital accidents. Now, if we assume that 10% of the population is in the hospital in any year, that means you have a .5 of one percent or 1 in 200 chance of dying in a hospital.

Look over my math.

If I had a 1 in 200 chance of dying on a plane....I'd never fly again.

Again...check my math.

 

[dblack]

The fact that the best case scenario didn't happen does not mean that it wasn't good.

That is true. But when a majority of the population perceive it as bad, I don't think we can dismiss that perception just because it is politically incorrect to do so.

When that majority is misinformed...we most certainly can dismiss the perception.

Nobody has shown me any credible evidence from non partisan sources that the majority are misinformed.

Or that the misinformed are the detractors. From what I've seen, the people fighting it know far more about the law, on average, than those supporting it.

 

[Greenbeard]

But if it is working so hard to correct problems, why aren't the ACA people shouting that from the rooftops?

...they are.

Better, Smarter, Healthier: Health Care Payment Learning and Action Network kick off to advance value and quality in health care

The Affordable Care Act established an ambitious new framework to move our health care system away from rewarding health providers for the quantity of care they provide and toward rewarding quality. These new models have been put to work in Medicare, and have contributed to 50,000 fewer patient deaths in hospitals due to avoidable harms, such as infections or medication errors, and 150,000 fewer preventable hospital readmissions since 2010, when the Affordable Care Act became law.

Affordable Care Act initiative builds on success of ACOs

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services today announced a new initiative from the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services’ Innovation Center (CMS Innovation Center): the Next Generation Accountable Care Organization (ACO) Model of payment and care delivery. Made possible by the Affordable Care Act, ACOs encourage quality improvement and care coordination, helping to move our health care system to one that achieves the Department’s goals of better care, smarter spending, and healthier people.

Since 2010, 9.4 million people with Medicare have saved over $15 billion on prescription drugs

The Department of Health and Human Services released today new information that shows that millions of seniors and people with disabilities with Medicare continued to enjoy prescription drug savings and improved benefits in 2014 as a result of the Affordable Care Act.

HHS awards more than $665 million to design and test state-led efforts to improve health care quality, accessibility and affordability

Twenty eight states, three territories and the District of Columbia will receive over $665 million in Affordable Care Act funding to design and test health care payment and service delivery models that will improve health care quality and lower costs, Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell announced today. Together with awards released in early 2013, over half of states (34 states and 3 territories and the District of Columbia), representing nearly two-thirds of the population are participating in efforts to support comprehensive state-based innovation in health system transformation aimed at finding new and innovative ways to improve quality and lower costs.

HHS awards $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to reward and expand quality improvement in health centers

Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell today announced $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to 1,113 health centers in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and seven U.S. Territories to recognize health center quality improvement achievements and invest in ongoing quality improvement activities. The health centers receiving awards today are proven leaders in areas such as chronic disease management, preventive care and the use of Electronic Health Records (EHRs) to report quality data.

Efforts to improve patient safety result in 1.3 million fewer patient harms, 50,000 lives saved and $12 billion in health spending avoided

A report released by the Department of Health and Human Services today shows an estimated 50,000 fewer patients died in hospitals and approximately $12 billion in health care costs were saved as a result of a reduction in hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This progress toward a safer health care system occurred during a period of concerted attention by hospitals throughout the country to reduce adverse events. The efforts were due in part to provisions of the Affordable Care Act such as Medicare payment incentives to improve the quality of care and the HHS Partnership for Patients initiative. Preliminary estimates show that in total, hospital patients experienced 1.3 million fewer hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This translates to a 17 percent decline in hospital-acquired conditions over the three-year period.

Highlighting the ACA's work to improve patient safety, pay for more effective and higher-quality care, empower states to pursue health reforms and innovations, boost health centers, save on prescription drug costs, etc. And that's just in the past few months (and I skipped the stuff about marketplace enrollment and the millions that are being helped to afford their premiums).

The "I don't pay attention so X must not be happening" argument is getting old pretty quickly.

And even the good stuff that anybody can point to in the ACA does not justify dismantling the entire U.S. healthcare system

Talk about hyperbole.

 

[Foxfyre]

Are hospitals getting safer? Yes. ("U.S. hospitals make fewer serious errors; 50,000 lives saved")

I'll take your responses one at a time as I have time.

This claim and the associated article don't make any sense.

This is from the article:

In 2010, the HHS inspector general estimated that poor care in hospitals contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients covered by Medicare, which insures the disabled and those 65 or older, every year.

Really ? Someone wants us to believe that this many people died every year because of "poor care" in hospitals.

That pretty much pales against the Harvard BS study that said 47,000 people a year die because of a lack of health insurance (even though the left could never produce any of the names of the over 500,000 people who should have died since the study was published).

I have to say that if that many people were dying, there should have been a public outcry and someone should have gone to jail.

Bottom line is that I don't buy the claim to be that large.

This came from another article:

Hospitals prevented nearly 15,000 deaths and 560,000 injuries by reducing additional illnesses and infections acquired in the hospital, preliminary data from the Health and Human Services Department show.

Are Hospital Patients Healthier Under Obamacare - NationalJournal.com

If hospitals were really that unsafe (and it would be great to know just what so unsafe), I'd be astounded that someone like Barbara Boxer wasn't using it as a campaign issue.

This just does not pass the smell test.

And BTW: These four hospitals are now really safe:

Fourth Georgia hospital closes due to Obamacare cuts The Daily Caller

All of which goes to show the extreme mischaracterization and hyperbole that results from partisan eagerness to defend even the indefensible.

How many times have we seen it claimed that some in Congress cut or wanted to cut the budget for some presumable 'noble' purposes when in fact all that was proposed or implemented was a smaller increase than was initially requested. The actual budget or spending was not cut at all, but rather increased, just not as much as some wanted it to.

Likewise, I am seeing the same kind of argument applied to Obamacare. They see a factoid that enrollments are more than first thought or that costs for this or that are lower than they were projected to be as a triumph that Obamacare is working. They won't acknowledge that just because the increase in a cost was 25% instead of a projected 30% is not a huge endorsement. The fact that the worse case scenario didn't happen does mean that it wasn't bad.

I am not as willing to slam the door on this one yet.

I was just saying that, at first glance, this one looks fishy.

In the first place the estimates are all over the map.

But more importantly, that means that 180,000/320,000,000 (or 0.05 of one percent) of the total population dies each year because of hospital accidents. Now, if we assume that 10% of the population is in the hospital in any year, that means you have a .5 of one percent or 1 in 200 chance of dying in a hospital.

Look over my math.

If I had a 1 in 200 chance of dying on a plane....I'd never fly again.

Again...check my math.

I don't know about that stat either, but having working in hospitals for a lot of years and knowing a lot of people on the front lines delivering healthcare, I know there are mistakes and some of them are serious. I also know the mistakes are more likely to occur with the very sick and very elderly, so there is no way to know for sure whether such people died as a result of a mistake or whether they would have died anyway. (That is not in any way intended to minimalize the problem.)

I certainly can find no credible evidence that Obamacare has done anything other than make the likelihood of mistakes greater.

 

[Foxfyre]

But if it is working so hard to correct problems, why aren't the ACA people shouting that from the rooftops?

...they are.

Better, Smarter, Healthier: Health Care Payment Learning and Action Network kick off to advance value and quality in health care

The Affordable Care Act established an ambitious new framework to move our health care system away from rewarding health providers for the quantity of care they provide and toward rewarding quality. These new models have been put to work in Medicare, and have contributed to 50,000 fewer patient deaths in hospitals due to avoidable harms, such as infections or medication errors, and 150,000 fewer preventable hospital readmissions since 2010, when the Affordable Care Act became law.

Affordable Care Act initiative builds on success of ACOs

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services today announced a new initiative from the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services’ Innovation Center (CMS Innovation Center): the Next Generation Accountable Care Organization (ACO) Model of payment and care delivery. Made possible by the Affordable Care Act, ACOs encourage quality improvement and care coordination, helping to move our health care system to one that achieves the Department’s goals of better care, smarter spending, and healthier people.

Since 2010, 9.4 million people with Medicare have saved over $15 billion on prescription drugs

The Department of Health and Human Services released today new information that shows that millions of seniors and people with disabilities with Medicare continued to enjoy prescription drug savings and improved benefits in 2014 as a result of the Affordable Care Act.

HHS awards more than $665 million to design and test state-led efforts to improve health care quality, accessibility and affordability

Twenty eight states, three territories and the District of Columbia will receive over $665 million in Affordable Care Act funding to design and test health care payment and service delivery models that will improve health care quality and lower costs, Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell announced today. Together with awards released in early 2013, over half of states (34 states and 3 territories and the District of Columbia), representing nearly two-thirds of the population are participating in efforts to support comprehensive state-based innovation in health system transformation aimed at finding new and innovative ways to improve quality and lower costs.

HHS awards $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to reward and expand quality improvement in health centers

Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell today announced $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to 1,113 health centers in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and seven U.S. Territories to recognize health center quality improvement achievements and invest in ongoing quality improvement activities. The health centers receiving awards today are proven leaders in areas such as chronic disease management, preventive care and the use of Electronic Health Records (EHRs) to report quality data.

Efforts to improve patient safety result in 1.3 million fewer patient harms, 50,000 lives saved and $12 billion in health spending avoided

A report released by the Department of Health and Human Services today shows an estimated 50,000 fewer patients died in hospitals and approximately $12 billion in health care costs were saved as a result of a reduction in hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This progress toward a safer health care system occurred during a period of concerted attention by hospitals throughout the country to reduce adverse events. The efforts were due in part to provisions of the Affordable Care Act such as Medicare payment incentives to improve the quality of care and the HHS Partnership for Patients initiative. Preliminary estimates show that in total, hospital patients experienced 1.3 million fewer hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This translates to a 17 percent decline in hospital-acquired conditions over the three-year period.

Highlighting the ACA's work to improve patient safety, pay for more effective and higher-quality care, empower states to pursue health reforms and innovations, boost health centers, save on prescription drug costs, etc. And that's just in the past few months (and I skipped the stuff about marketplace enrollment and the millions that are being helped to afford their premiums).

The "I don't pay attention so X must not be happening" argument is getting old pretty quickly.

And even the good stuff that anybody can point to in the ACA does not justify dismantling the entire U.S. healthcare system

Talk about hyperbole.

If it is hyperbole, make an argument for why it is. I have some damn good arguments to support my opinion most of which I have already made in this thread.

But now seriously, do you honestly expect people who now feel screwed and who know of the myriad half truths, mistruths, miscalculations, ineptitude, and flat out bald faced lies that the government has fed the people to sell and defend the ACA to take seriously what the government posts on its own website, most especially when nobody but the most partisan and pro-government people will ever see it?

 

[dblack]

But if it is working so hard to correct problems, why aren't the ACA people shouting that from the rooftops?

...they are.

Better, Smarter, Healthier: Health Care Payment Learning and Action Network kick off to advance value and quality in health care

The Affordable Care Act established an ambitious new framework to move our health care system away from rewarding health providers for the quantity of care they provide and toward rewarding quality. These new models have been put to work in Medicare, and have contributed to 50,000 fewer patient deaths in hospitals due to avoidable harms, such as infections or medication errors, and 150,000 fewer preventable hospital readmissions since 2010, when the Affordable Care Act became law.

Affordable Care Act initiative builds on success of ACOs

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services today announced a new initiative from the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services’ Innovation Center (CMS Innovation Center): the Next Generation Accountable Care Organization (ACO) Model of payment and care delivery. Made possible by the Affordable Care Act, ACOs encourage quality improvement and care coordination, helping to move our health care system to one that achieves the Department’s goals of better care, smarter spending, and healthier people.

Since 2010, 9.4 million people with Medicare have saved over $15 billion on prescription drugs

The Department of Health and Human Services released today new information that shows that millions of seniors and people with disabilities with Medicare continued to enjoy prescription drug savings and improved benefits in 2014 as a result of the Affordable Care Act.

HHS awards more than $665 million to design and test state-led efforts to improve health care quality, accessibility and affordability

Twenty eight states, three territories and the District of Columbia will receive over $665 million in Affordable Care Act funding to design and test health care payment and service delivery models that will improve health care quality and lower costs, Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell announced today. Together with awards released in early 2013, over half of states (34 states and 3 territories and the District of Columbia), representing nearly two-thirds of the population are participating in efforts to support comprehensive state-based innovation in health system transformation aimed at finding new and innovative ways to improve quality and lower costs.

HHS awards $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to reward and expand quality improvement in health centers

Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell today announced $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to 1,113 health centers in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and seven U.S. Territories to recognize health center quality improvement achievements and invest in ongoing quality improvement activities. The health centers receiving awards today are proven leaders in areas such as chronic disease management, preventive care and the use of Electronic Health Records (EHRs) to report quality data.

Efforts to improve patient safety result in 1.3 million fewer patient harms, 50,000 lives saved and $12 billion in health spending avoided

A report released by the Department of Health and Human Services today shows an estimated 50,000 fewer patients died in hospitals and approximately $12 billion in health care costs were saved as a result of a reduction in hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This progress toward a safer health care system occurred during a period of concerted attention by hospitals throughout the country to reduce adverse events. The efforts were due in part to provisions of the Affordable Care Act such as Medicare payment incentives to improve the quality of care and the HHS Partnership for Patients initiative. Preliminary estimates show that in total, hospital patients experienced 1.3 million fewer hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This translates to a 17 percent decline in hospital-acquired conditions over the three-year period.

Highlighting the ACA's work to improve patient safety, pay for more effective and higher-quality care, empower states to pursue health reforms and innovations, boost health centers, save on prescription drug costs, etc. And that's just in the past few months (and I skipped the stuff about marketplace enrollment and the millions that are being helped to afford their premiums).

The "I don't pay attention so X must not be happening" argument is getting old pretty quickly.

And even the good stuff that anybody can point to in the ACA does not justify dismantling the entire U.S. healthcare system

Talk about hyperbole.

If it is hyperbole, make an argument for why it is. I have some damn good arguments to support my opinion most of which I have already made in this thread.

But now seriously, do you honestly expect people who now feel screwed and who know of the myriad half truths, mistruths, miscalculations, ineptitude, and flat out bald faced lies that the government has fed the people to sell and defend the ACA to take seriously what the government posts on its own website, most especially when nobody but the most partisan and pro-government people will ever see it?

The cruel irony of ACA is the extent to which if fuels corporatism, and the growing collusion between economic and political power. Liberals claim to be against this sort of thing. And here they are cheering for it.

 

[Foxfyre]

But if it is working so hard to correct problems, why aren't the ACA people shouting that from the rooftops?

...they are.

Better, Smarter, Healthier: Health Care Payment Learning and Action Network kick off to advance value and quality in health care

The Affordable Care Act established an ambitious new framework to move our health care system away from rewarding health providers for the quantity of care they provide and toward rewarding quality. These new models have been put to work in Medicare, and have contributed to 50,000 fewer patient deaths in hospitals due to avoidable harms, such as infections or medication errors, and 150,000 fewer preventable hospital readmissions since 2010, when the Affordable Care Act became law.

Affordable Care Act initiative builds on success of ACOs

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services today announced a new initiative from the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services’ Innovation Center (CMS Innovation Center): the Next Generation Accountable Care Organization (ACO) Model of payment and care delivery. Made possible by the Affordable Care Act, ACOs encourage quality improvement and care coordination, helping to move our health care system to one that achieves the Department’s goals of better care, smarter spending, and healthier people.

Since 2010, 9.4 million people with Medicare have saved over $15 billion on prescription drugs

The Department of Health and Human Services released today new information that shows that millions of seniors and people with disabilities with Medicare continued to enjoy prescription drug savings and improved benefits in 2014 as a result of the Affordable Care Act.

HHS awards more than $665 million to design and test state-led efforts to improve health care quality, accessibility and affordability

Twenty eight states, three territories and the District of Columbia will receive over $665 million in Affordable Care Act funding to design and test health care payment and service delivery models that will improve health care quality and lower costs, Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell announced today. Together with awards released in early 2013, over half of states (34 states and 3 territories and the District of Columbia), representing nearly two-thirds of the population are participating in efforts to support comprehensive state-based innovation in health system transformation aimed at finding new and innovative ways to improve quality and lower costs.

HHS awards $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to reward and expand quality improvement in health centers

Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell today announced $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to 1,113 health centers in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and seven U.S. Territories to recognize health center quality improvement achievements and invest in ongoing quality improvement activities. The health centers receiving awards today are proven leaders in areas such as chronic disease management, preventive care and the use of Electronic Health Records (EHRs) to report quality data.

Efforts to improve patient safety result in 1.3 million fewer patient harms, 50,000 lives saved and $12 billion in health spending avoided

A report released by the Department of Health and Human Services today shows an estimated 50,000 fewer patients died in hospitals and approximately $12 billion in health care costs were saved as a result of a reduction in hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This progress toward a safer health care system occurred during a period of concerted attention by hospitals throughout the country to reduce adverse events. The efforts were due in part to provisions of the Affordable Care Act such as Medicare payment incentives to improve the quality of care and the HHS Partnership for Patients initiative. Preliminary estimates show that in total, hospital patients experienced 1.3 million fewer hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This translates to a 17 percent decline in hospital-acquired conditions over the three-year period.

Highlighting the ACA's work to improve patient safety, pay for more effective and higher-quality care, empower states to pursue health reforms and innovations, boost health centers, save on prescription drug costs, etc. And that's just in the past few months (and I skipped the stuff about marketplace enrollment and the millions that are being helped to afford their premiums).

The "I don't pay attention so X must not be happening" argument is getting old pretty quickly.

And even the good stuff that anybody can point to in the ACA does not justify dismantling the entire U.S. healthcare system

Talk about hyperbole.

If it is hyperbole, make an argument for why it is. I have some damn good arguments to support my opinion most of which I have already made in this thread.

But now seriously, do you honestly expect people who now feel screwed and who know of the myriad half truths, mistruths, miscalculations, ineptitude, and flat out bald faced lies that the government has fed the people to sell and defend the ACA to take seriously what the government posts on its own website, most especially when nobody but the most partisan and pro-government people will ever see it?

The cruel irony of ACA is the extent to which if fuels corporatism, and the growing collusion between economic and political power. Liberals claim to be against this sort of thing. And here they are cheering for it.

That is another aspect for sure. Just following the money from big pharmaceuticals to the insurance companies to the AMA to the AARP et al, it does seem that all of the big guns who went in pushing the ACA have all profited enormously from it.

 

[Greenbeard]

If it is hyperbole, make an argument for why it is. I have some damn good arguments to support my opinion most of which I have already made in this thread.

Pretty sure your last argument ultimately boiled down to "yeah, well, the hospital cafeterias aren't as nice as they used to be!"

But now seriously, do you honestly expect people who now feel screwed and who know of the myriad half truths, mistruths, miscalculations, ineptitude, and flat out bald faced lies that the government has fed the people to sell and defend the ACA to take seriously what the government posts on its own website?

You asked why "ACA people" (which I assume is HHS) aren't touting the torrent of good news flowing out of the ACA. Contrary to what you said, the answer is that they are. I don't know why I have to remind you of what your argument was, but you said if it were good they'd be touting it. Guess what, they're touting it.

Now you immediately shift to "why would anyone believe them!" Shifting sands!

 

[dblack]

But if it is working so hard to correct problems, why aren't the ACA people shouting that from the rooftops?

...they are.

Better, Smarter, Healthier: Health Care Payment Learning and Action Network kick off to advance value and quality in health care

The Affordable Care Act established an ambitious new framework to move our health care system away from rewarding health providers for the quantity of care they provide and toward rewarding quality. These new models have been put to work in Medicare, and have contributed to 50,000 fewer patient deaths in hospitals due to avoidable harms, such as infections or medication errors, and 150,000 fewer preventable hospital readmissions since 2010, when the Affordable Care Act became law.

Affordable Care Act initiative builds on success of ACOs

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services today announced a new initiative from the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services’ Innovation Center (CMS Innovation Center): the Next Generation Accountable Care Organization (ACO) Model of payment and care delivery. Made possible by the Affordable Care Act, ACOs encourage quality improvement and care coordination, helping to move our health care system to one that achieves the Department’s goals of better care, smarter spending, and healthier people.

Since 2010, 9.4 million people with Medicare have saved over $15 billion on prescription drugs

The Department of Health and Human Services released today new information that shows that millions of seniors and people with disabilities with Medicare continued to enjoy prescription drug savings and improved benefits in 2014 as a result of the Affordable Care Act.

HHS awards more than $665 million to design and test state-led efforts to improve health care quality, accessibility and affordability

Twenty eight states, three territories and the District of Columbia will receive over $665 million in Affordable Care Act funding to design and test health care payment and service delivery models that will improve health care quality and lower costs, Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell announced today. Together with awards released in early 2013, over half of states (34 states and 3 territories and the District of Columbia), representing nearly two-thirds of the population are participating in efforts to support comprehensive state-based innovation in health system transformation aimed at finding new and innovative ways to improve quality and lower costs.

HHS awards $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to reward and expand quality improvement in health centers

Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia M. Burwell today announced $36.3 million in Affordable Care Act funding to 1,113 health centers in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and seven U.S. Territories to recognize health center quality improvement achievements and invest in ongoing quality improvement activities. The health centers receiving awards today are proven leaders in areas such as chronic disease management, preventive care and the use of Electronic Health Records (EHRs) to report quality data.

Efforts to improve patient safety result in 1.3 million fewer patient harms, 50,000 lives saved and $12 billion in health spending avoided

A report released by the Department of Health and Human Services today shows an estimated 50,000 fewer patients died in hospitals and approximately $12 billion in health care costs were saved as a result of a reduction in hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This progress toward a safer health care system occurred during a period of concerted attention by hospitals throughout the country to reduce adverse events. The efforts were due in part to provisions of the Affordable Care Act such as Medicare payment incentives to improve the quality of care and the HHS Partnership for Patients initiative. Preliminary estimates show that in total, hospital patients experienced 1.3 million fewer hospital-acquired conditions from 2010 to 2013. This translates to a 17 percent decline in hospital-acquired conditions over the three-year period.

Highlighting the ACA's work to improve patient safety, pay for more effective and higher-quality care, empower states to pursue health reforms and innovations, boost health centers, save on prescription drug costs, etc. And that's just in the past few months (and I skipped the stuff about marketplace enrollment and the millions that are being helped to afford their premiums).

The "I don't pay attention so X must not be happening" argument is getting old pretty quickly.

And even the good stuff that anybody can point to in the ACA does not justify dismantling the entire U.S. healthcare system

Talk about hyperbole.

If it is hyperbole, make an argument for why it is. I have some damn good arguments to support my opinion most of which I have already made in this thread.

But now seriously, do you honestly expect people who now feel screwed and who know of the myriad half truths, mistruths, miscalculations, ineptitude, and flat out bald faced lies that the government has fed the people to sell and defend the ACA to take seriously what the government posts on its own website, most especially when nobody but the most partisan and pro-government people will ever see it?

The cruel irony of ACA is the extent to which if fuels corporatism, and the growing collusion between economic and political power. Liberals claim to be against this sort of thing. And here they are cheering for it.

That is another aspect for sure. Just following the money from big pharmaceuticals to the insurance companies to the AMA to the AARP et al, it does seem that all of the big guns who went in pushing the ACA have all profited enormously from it.

It would have never been signed into law otherwise. I'm convinced the monied interests have given up on the US. We're simply seeing a "fire sale" as they bleed of us the final drops before moving on.

 

[Foxfyre]

If it is hyperbole, make an argument for why it is. I have some damn good arguments to support my opinion most of which I have already made in this thread.

Pretty sure your last argument ultimately boiled down to "yeah, well, the hospital cafeterias aren't as nice as they used to be!"

But now seriously, do you honestly expect people who now feel screwed and who know of the myriad half truths, mistruths, miscalculations, ineptitude, and flat out bald faced lies that the government has fed the people to sell and defend the ACA to take seriously what the government posts on its own website?

You asked why "ACA people" (which I assume is HHS) aren't touting the torrent of good news flowing out of the ACA. Contrary to what you said, the answer is that they are. I don't know why I have to remind you of what your argument was, but you said if it were good they'd be touting it. Guess what, they're touting it.

Now you immediately shift to "why would anyone believe them!" Shifting sands!

No, posting it on their website is not 'touting it'. You don't find the HHS secretary or the President or any of their surrogate media pushing those concepts. You don't hear the talking heads or members of Congress bragging about it. Very few people go to the government website for propaganda--those of us who do go to government websites are looking for hard numbers or facts re the law or taxes or GDP or unemployment stats or whatever.

So again, given how dishonest the government has been re the ACA so far, why should anybody believe what they tell us now?

 

[Greenbeard]

No, posting it on their website is not 'touting it'. You don't find the HHS secretary or the President or any of their surrogate media pushing those concepts.

You are in such a bizarre state of denial about the most mundane points. Secretary Burwell was in Boston literally yesterday at the World Medical Innovation Forum doing exactly that: Health chief says US overhaul is working | Boston Globe.

Obama himself was just touting it earlier this month. And of course he gave a huge speech about it at the end of last month. Not to mention the Council of Economic advisers has been putting out plenty on the positive impact we're seeing from the ACA.

You don't hear these things because you don't listen. And so you then assume this isn't happening and somehow that validates your world view.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The fact that the best case scenario didn't happen does not mean that it wasn't good.

That is true. But when a majority of the population perceive it as bad, I don't think we can dismiss that perception just because it is politically incorrect to do so.

When that majority is misinformed...we most certainly can dismiss the perception.

Nobody has shown me any credible evidence from non partisan sources that the majority are misinformed.

Or that the misinformed are the detractors. From what I've seen, the people fighting it know far more about the law, on average, than those supporting it.

That would be BS.

 

[dblack]

The fact that the best case scenario didn't happen does not mean that it wasn't good.

That is true. But when a majority of the population perceive it as bad, I don't think we can dismiss that perception just because it is politically incorrect to do so.

When that majority is misinformed...we most certainly can dismiss the perception.

Nobody has shown me any credible evidence from non partisan sources that the majority are misinformed.

Or that the misinformed are the detractors. From what I've seen, the people fighting it know far more about the law, on average, than those supporting it.

That would be BS.

Bachelor of Science?

 

[LoneLaugher]

That is true. But when a majority of the population perceive it as bad, I don't think we can dismiss that perception just because it is politically incorrect to do so.

When that majority is misinformed...we most certainly can dismiss the perception.

Nobody has shown me any credible evidence from non partisan sources that the majority are misinformed.

Or that the misinformed are the detractors. From what I've seen, the people fighting it know far more about the law, on average, than those supporting it.

That would be BS.

Bachelor of Science?

Oh....yes. You are a clever one.

 

[Foxfyre]

If it is hyperbole, make an argument for why it is. I have some damn good arguments to support my opinion most of which I have already made in this thread.

Pretty sure your last argument ultimately boiled down to "yeah, well, the hospital cafeterias aren't as nice as they used to be!"

But now seriously, do you honestly expect people who now feel screwed and who know of the myriad half truths, mistruths, miscalculations, ineptitude, and flat out bald faced lies that the government has fed the people to sell and defend the ACA to take seriously what the government posts on its own website?

You asked why "ACA people" (which I assume is HHS) aren't touting the torrent of good news flowing out of the ACA. Contrary to what you said, the answer is that they are. I don't know why I have to remind you of what your argument was, but you said if it were good they'd be touting it. Guess what, they're touting it.

Now you immediately shift to "why would anyone believe them!" Shifting sands!

I'm pretty sure my argument has been pretty consistent.

 

[Foxfyre]

No, posting it on their website is not 'touting it'. You don't find the HHS secretary or the President or any of their surrogate media pushing those concepts.

You are in such a bizarre state of denial about the most mundane points. Secretary Burwell was in Boston literally yesterday at the World Medical Innovation Forum doing exactly that: Health chief says US overhaul is working | Boston Globe.

Obama himself was just touting it earlier this month. And of course he gave a huge speech about it at the end of last month. Not to mention the Council of Economic advisers has been putting out plenty on the positive impact we're seeing from the ACA.

You don't hear these things because you don't listen. And so you then assume this isn't happening and somehow that validates your world view.

What I am in denial about or what I do or do not listen to is not the topic of this thread and is not allowed for discussion per the thread rule #1. I have no clue whether either presentation mentioned even addressed the points you and I have been arguing but feel free to quote any relevent quotations that you think would support your argument.

 

[Foxfyre]

I will refer all to the thread rules.

 

[candycorn]

More people being insured is better than fewer. The ACA has facilitated that. Does it have some problems? Sure. Every program ever launched does and, as far as I know, no program ever launched was perfect right out of the gate.