Anarchists and libertarians - Please click here

[Harpy Eagle]

We rely on the government to protect our natural rights.

This is so critical... government cannot, ever, under any circumstances protect natural law rights. Police, as individual humans, can. But not in their capacity as "authority". Governmental authority is a direct, irrefutable violation of natural law rights. It is an inequality of rights whereby one party claims rights that others don't have; and those "rights" claimed are exclusively immoral acts.

If you really stop to think about it, you do not need authority to do anything that individuals have a right to do - you already have those rights. You only need authority to do what individuals do not have a right to do; which, by definition, means immoral acts.

Police as individuals can because there are laws in place. Laws established by government.

Are you serious right now? You did not just read that post and respond like this. I demand you remove the words "critical thinking" from your signature this instant!!!

Aw fuck, he's not gonna do it...

Now I'm just captivated by the mystery of the situation - could it be reading comprehension? That doesn't seem likely, as this was pretty clear. Mental block due to lifelong indoctrination? Likely enough, but still...

Any chance you'd like to, ya know, address the undeniable impossibility of moral government or anything?

Maybe we should just play "I Spy"... I'll go first... I see something... unfathomably resistant to logic.

There are no such thing as "natural law rights". This is just more utopian mumbo jumbo.

Right, because all the universe is guided by law, with mankind’s behavior being the sole exception.

No chance you’d like to spend some time quietly considering that chart I posted, and seeing if it conforms with historical reality, and then making an informed... hello?

Aw fuck, he fell asleep.

You really should try and read what is written before you go on the attack, that way you do not look so bitter.

I said there is no such thing as "natural law RIGHTS". Rights are a man made construct. When the lion kills the gazelle the gazelle does not whine about it's rights being violated. Your utopian view of mankind violates the natural laws as it removes man's own nature.

Your chart conforms with pretty much nothing but your pollyanna view of the world.

 

[ding]

Anarchism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of anarchism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Anarchism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Anarchism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Anarchists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire no government to implement their amoral social policies. Anarchism is a religion. The religious nature of anarchism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

"Social Contract" is a truce. It is an agreement to not kill each other and let each other pursue food and sex without violent interference.

Anything above and beyond that understood agreement is not contractual. It is compulsory from birth.

Except 99% of the population never agreed to it.

It's conditional upon you living here. If you don't like it, you are free to leave.

Because short of a Constitutional convention the only thing that is likely to change the way things are would be WWIII.

Bullshit. The social contract is a myth. You don't impress anyone by repeating this nonsense.

I don't think you understand what I am writing. You don't have a choice.

You living here means that you accept it as a condition of you staying here.

How do I know? Because you toe the line. You bitch about it, but you have accepted it through your actions. You can cry that you are being coerced. That is just you rationalizing that you haven't accepted it when your actions say otherwise.

In fact, I bet you vote in the elections too. amirite?

This is the key...it reminds me of a friend of mine whose kid moved back home after college. They put some basic rules down for him and the kid whined, but by choosing to live there he was choosing to follow the rules.

Same thing applies to those that choose to live in the US.

There is essentially no government in Somalia, perhaps they should move there and see if it is the utopia they are hoping for.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Anarchism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of anarchism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Anarchism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Anarchism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Anarchists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire no government to implement their amoral social policies. Anarchism is a religion. The religious nature of anarchism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

It seems that right now we have an example of a country with no government, Somalia. It is the perfect test case for anarchy, if things turn out well there then maybe they will win me over to their side.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

I've done pretty well for myself as a "slave."

Are you sure YOU aren't the one "thinkin' you's been wronged?"

Well, as long as you've done well for yourself, that's all that matters.

Think concentric circles, Brian.

But putting that aside, it belies your belief that I am a slave.

And it is your displeasure that shows that you think you are a slave.

It's the words of a house slave. How well you're doing has absolutely nothing to do with whether you're a slave or not. Citing how well you're doing is only to say "Well, if I'm a slave, I'm a rich slave, so"

For God's sake, man, I thought you actually gave a damn about logic and reason. You were at least trying in our previous conversations.

When you get pissed and start on personal attacks it would indicate you are losing an argument.

He hasn’t made an argument, that’s why I’m so indignant! I know this guy and he’s better than that. He’s being disrespectful of critical evaluation while humanity hangs in the balance.

This isn’t a joke. You think everything’s going to chug along just fine, and that we’re just having a fireside conversation from the comfort of our armchairs. If people don’t start giving a damn about what’s true and what’s not, what’s right and what’s wrong, this shit is going to hit the fan, and people are going to to be blindsided so hard their head is going to spin clean off.

There’s an easy way and a hard way. I’m here imploring people to take the easy way of care, knowledge, understanding, and right action. One person at a time. The odds are damn slim, but I’m going to try, and there’s no time for staying cool in the face of willful ignorance and immorality.

“Let us not speak falsely now... the hour’s getting late.”

 

[ding]

"Social Contract" is a truce. It is an agreement to not kill each other and let each other pursue food and sex without violent interference.

Anything above and beyond that understood agreement is not contractual. It is compulsory from birth.

Except 99% of the population never agreed to it.

It's conditional upon you living here. If you don't like it, you are free to leave.

Because short of a Constitutional convention the only thing that is likely to change the way things are would be WWIII.

Bullshit. The social contract is a myth. You don't impress anyone by repeating this nonsense.

I don't think you understand what I am writing. You don't have a choice.

You living here means that you accept it as a condition of you staying here.

How do I know? Because you toe the line. You bitch about it, but you have accepted it through your actions. You can cry that you are being coerced. That is just you rationalizing that you haven't accepted it when your actions say otherwise.

In fact, I bet you vote in the elections too. amirite?

This is the key...it reminds me of a friend of mine whose kid moved back home after college. They put some basic rules down for him and the kid whined, but by choosing to live there he was choosing to follow the rules.

Same thing applies to those that choose to live in the US.

There is essentially no government in Somalia, perhaps they should move there and see if it is the utopia they are hoping for.

By necessity any collection of men will necessarily require a hierarchy. Anarchists are delusional.

 

[ding]

I've done pretty well for myself as a "slave."

Are you sure YOU aren't the one "thinkin' you's been wronged?"

Well, as long as you've done well for yourself, that's all that matters.

Think concentric circles, Brian.

But putting that aside, it belies your belief that I am a slave.

And it is your displeasure that shows that you think you are a slave.

It's the words of a house slave. How well you're doing has absolutely nothing to do with whether you're a slave or not. Citing how well you're doing is only to say "Well, if I'm a slave, I'm a rich slave, so"

For God's sake, man, I thought you actually gave a damn about logic and reason. You were at least trying in our previous conversations.

When you get pissed and start on personal attacks it would indicate you are losing an argument.

He hasn’t made an argument, that’s why I’m so indignant! I know this guy and he’s better than that. He’s being disrespectful of critical evaluation while humanity hangs in the balance.

This isn’t a joke. You think everything’s going to chug along just fine, and that we’re just having a fireside conversation from the comfort of our armchairs. If people don’t start giving a damn about what’s true and what’s not, what’s right and what’s wrong, this shit is going to hit the fan, and people are going to to be blindsided so hard their head is going to spin clean off.

There’s an easy way and a hard way. I’m here imploring people to take the easy way of care, knowledge, understanding, and right action. One person at a time. The odds are damn slim, but I’m going to try, and there’s no time for staying cool in the face of willful ignorance and immorality.

“Let us not speak falsely now... the hour’s getting late.”

I absolutely have made an argument. Locke's argument.

 

[ding]

Anarchism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of anarchism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Anarchism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Anarchism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Anarchists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire no government to implement their amoral social policies. Anarchism is a religion. The religious nature of anarchism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

It seems that right now we have an example of a country with no government, Somalia. It is the perfect test case for anarchy, if things turn out well there then maybe they will win me over to their side.

Or you could go through history and find any revolution except the American Revolution and use that as an example.

Our problem isn't the structure of our government it is that our people have become corrupted themselves and our government reflects the people.

But there is still good within us and when we have had enough we will change our ways.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Why are we the people that must conform or get out?

Fuck that.

You bitches leave.

 

[Oddball]

Anarchism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of anarchism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Anarchism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Anarchism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Anarchists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire no government to implement their amoral social policies. Anarchism is a religion. The religious nature of anarchism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

Project much?

Make the subject "statists" and "statism" and you've hit the mark...And you're proving it with your every post on the topic.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Why are we the people that must conform or get out?

Fuck that.

You bitches leave.

You are the ones that do not want to be a part of the apparatus of order that the society has developed. If I was a member of a club and they did things I do not agree with, why would I expect them to change for me?

I will ask you since you are leaning towards the idea of no government being the way to go. Why is Somalia not a destination for all the anarchist, there is no real government there and yet it does not seem to be producing the end result we are told that anarchy will bring out. Why is that?

 

[Oddball]

I couldn't disagree more. Because democracy is unworkable because of selfish and bad people doesn't mean that the concept itself is not a good concept.

A benevolent monarchy with the wisdom to do what is best for the people at all times would be the most perfect government, but it will never happen because absolute power invariably corrupts as has happened in our own government once it discarded the ideal of social contract and assumed absolute authority. The blame for that is on those who did it and we the people who allowed it to happen.

Social contract isn't perfect because there will always be those who don't get all or anything they want, but it is the most perfect, least intrusive, least corruptible form of government devised by human kind. It is the only form of government in which the people govern themselves and set their own rules for society and what boundaries all agree to live by and who will have authority and how much.

Now you can see the beauty and advantage in that or continue to maintain that social contract doesn't exist and/or that a society without rules or discipline or laws or any means other than being stronger or better with weapons or just being able to stay awake longer in order to defend oneself is the only proper society.

I prefer social contract.

It's not perfect because it doesn't exist...You might as well say you believe in pixies and unicorns....The boundaries, such as they are, are being set by people who themselves are lawless.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Why are we the people that must conform or get out?

Fuck that.

You bitches leave.

You are the ones that do not want to be a part of the apparatus of order that the society has developed. If I was a member of a club and they did things I do not agree with, why would I expect them to change for me?

I will ask you since you are leaning towards the idea of no government being the way to go. Why is Somalia not a destination for all the anarchist, there is no real government there and yet it does not seem to be producing the end result we are told that anarchy will bring out. Why is that?

The appauratus of ORDER?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Why are we the people that must conform or get out?

Fuck that.

You bitches leave.

You are the ones that do not want to be a part of the apparatus of order that the society has developed. If I was a member of a club and they did things I do not agree with, why would I expect them to change for me?

I will ask you since you are leaning towards the idea of no government being the way to go. Why is Somalia not a destination for all the anarchist, there is no real government there and yet it does not seem to be producing the end result we are told that anarchy will bring out. Why is that?

The appauratus of ORDER?

In its most basic form that is what a government is, it is there to ensure order in the society. Society cannot exist without order, that is why a society of anarchist is an oxymoron


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[Oddball]

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

In its most basic form that is what a government is, it is there to ensure order in the society. Society cannot exist without order, that is why a society of anarchist is an oxymoron

Yet, it did exist when our founders threw off their oppressive government.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

In its most basic form that is what a government is, it is there to ensure order in the society. Society cannot exist without order, that is why a society of anarchist is an oxymoron

Yet, it did exist when our founders threw off their oppressive government.

And replaced it with another government...not with no government.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

View attachment 191158

Anarchy does not lead to freedom, just as Somalia.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

And replaced it with another government...not with no government.

Reluctantly. Read Thomas Jefferson's comments on it.

They would have rebelled agaist this government at least 10 times by now. Minimum.

If we must have government, it should be in a constant state of overthrow to prevent what we have now.

And Somalia is a shit hole because it is full of idiots. No other reason.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

This is really pretty simple. I believe the role of the government is to do for the people what the people cannot do for themselves and not to do for the people what they can and should do for themselves. You believe government is evil and you want to have no laws and think that people will just behave themselves.

And you question my logic? Too funny.

I don't believe government is evil, it is evil, by definition. I explained why, and you didn't address it:

"You do not need authority to do anything that individuals have a right to do - you already have those rights. You only need authority to do what individuals do not have a right to do; which, by definition, means immoral acts."

Organization and cooperation are to do for people what they cannot do for themselves. Government, as authority, does not have a valid role. Don't you see how the whole thing is a work-around for a band of thugs to rob everyone without having to do the heavy lifting? You even fill out the paperwork yourself. The whole thing - the flags, the songs, the parades, the heroes, the civics lectures, the political debates - all of it is there for one purpose - to enslave you.

I get that you're not building pyramids or picking crops under the lash, and I'm living here too so I know it's not all that oppressive on the face of it, but slavery has degrees. Rape is slavery. Blackmail is slavery. Any attempt to wrongfully deny a person their inherent freedom (consent) is slavery. Your ability to be "doing well" is permitted to mask the fact that you're in bondage, because to come right out with it when there's millions of us would require an unmanageable level of violence. A plantation this size needs a more advanced strategy. Monarchy wore thin and people saw through it, so they came up with this - let 'em think they ARE government.

That would be as obvious as the nose on your face if not for the levels of bullshit they've hurled on us all our lives. If you wouldn't mind, please address that quoted bit above in your response.