And when only the police have guns....and decide the cartels pay better..they kill innocent people..

Yes people who want to sell more guns don't like him. I get it.


And exactly what gun store do these guys own..........and considering hemenway's ties to gun grabber groups like the former Hand Gun Control Inc. I'm sure that doesn't effect his research......

Hemenway is a hack....he hates guns and uses his research to advocate getting rid of guns........

he even disputes your fake number on the defensive use of guns.....

I'm sure all the other scientists are too right? All for science and studies till they disagree with you. Kinda funny.


hemenway has been shown to be an actual hack, as has kellerman and donahue....they are rabid anti gunners and don't do actual research......

Kleck....started out as an anti gunner...till he did his research...

Lott.....neutral on the subject but leaned toward an anti gun stance....before he did his research.....
Kleck and Lott are clearly wrong.


You mean other than the fact that all of the research shows they are right.....
Lott- see Chicago and Milwaukee.

Kleck would have us believe there have been 75 million defenses the last 30 years. Every gun owner should have at least one. They don't, kleck clearly wrong.
 
And here you go again.....some actual research on the topic....

A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

But in the real world violent crime up in Chicago and Wisconsin.


And both milwaukee and chicago are disasterously short of police.....Chicago is down 2,000 officers, and milwaukee is down over 240 plus forcing their officers to do massive overtime to make up for it.......

Lott himself always points out police are the biggest factor in crime deterrence.....but...studies show concealed carry can lower the interpersona crime rate about 3-5% once it reaches saturation levels.....

When it goes down it will be from policing yes.


If they get 2,000 more police most of it will be from cops, but 3-5% will be from people carrying guns and the criminals choosing different crimes.....
 
And here you go again.....some actual research on the topic....

A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

But in the real world violent crime up in Chicago and Wisconsin.


And both milwaukee and chicago are disasterously short of police.....Chicago is down 2,000 officers, and milwaukee is down over 240 plus forcing their officers to do massive overtime to make up for it.......

Lott himself always points out police are the biggest factor in crime deterrence.....but...studies show concealed carry can lower the interpersona crime rate about 3-5% once it reaches saturation levels.....

When it goes down it will be from policing yes.


If they get 2,000 more police most of it will be from cops, but 3-5% will be from people carrying guns and the criminals choosing different crimes.....
In gun fantasy land maybe. In reality crime is up with concealed carry.
 
another false dichotomy of the Right who prefer to complain about their own elected representatives not having enough faith in the probity of their constituency, to have nothing but repeal of gun laws as their platform.

should some on the left petition for Judicial Curiosity regarding the concept of "commandeering" militia chics to be probationary wives to help gun lovers with their gun loving probity, whenever they cannot muster enough love for their Republic.

“Men did not love Rome because she was great. She was great because they had loved her.”
G.K. Chesterton
 
The cartels don't kill innocent people. They kill one another's pushers and customers.

Just in the last few years the cartels have taken out over 60,000 drug users permanently. In all the years of drug war we haven't done that.
 
Yeah....because they did a background check as they are required to do and it came back okay....so background checks are just stupid........he could have even registered that gun...and it would have been a stupid gesture as well....and luckily he used that drum magazine because those are stupid magizines that are prone to jamming........what you don't know about this issue could fill volumes......

Guy, I was in the military for 11 years. I know as much about guns as you do. I just don't mistake them for, well, your well documented "inadequcies".

You sell a gun used in a murder, your life is effectively over. The government SHOULD ruin you.

Betcha guns never get into the wrong hands after that.
 
Yeah....because they did a background check as they are required to do and it came back okay....so background checks are just stupid........he could have even registered that gun...and it would have been a stupid gesture as well....and luckily he used that drum magazine because those are stupid magizines that are prone to jamming........what you don't know about this issue could fill volumes......

Guy, I was in the military for 11 years. I know as much about guns as you do. I just don't mistake them for, well, your well documented "inadequcies".

You sell a gun used in a murder, your life is effectively over. The government SHOULD ruin you.

Betcha guns never get into the wrong hands after that.


Is sewer line cleaner a real MOS joe........so was it really 11 years in the military?
 
You blame guns. I blame uncontrolled anger. Any weapon will do when one wants to kill another. Take away one, another will be found. It's been going on since mankind discovered blunt force trauma and spears.

Bullshit. We have 11,000 gun deaths a year. The Japanese have 11. The British hae 48. The germans (who actually restrict gun ownership to RESPONSIBLE citizens) have 268.

Less guns = less murders, less suicides and less accidents. It also leads to less crime.
And you still can't have them. If you don't like guns don't buy one.
 
Is sewer line cleaner a real MOS joe........so was it really 11 years in the military?

My MOS was 76Y. And, yes, I was in for 11 years and got out as an E-6.

But you wannabes with your guns, you just salivate at the thought of shooting people.

And you still can't have them. If you don't like guns don't buy one.

We're going to keep hanging every dead kid around the NRA's neck.
 
Is sewer line cleaner a real MOS joe........so was it really 11 years in the military?

My MOS was 76Y. And, yes, I was in for 11 years and got out as an E-6.

But you wannabes with your guns, you just salivate at the thought of shooting people.

And you still can't have them. If you don't like guns don't buy one.

We're going to keep hanging every dead kid around the NRA's neck.


Why would you do that........considering that the NRA is the only group offering programs to actually keep kids safe....while the anti-gun nut organizations use dead kids to promote their fear of guns..........

The only one talking about shooting people with relish is you joe....you need to get help....
 
Spoken like an obedient Leftytoon.

You don't think the NRA, which has made it easy for Loughner, Holmes and Lanza to get guns, has some responsibility for their antics?


They supported the stupid background checks you morons insisted on....and that all three of those guys got around easily............and if they had to register their guns...dittos, and if they had magazine limits...dittos.....

The NRA supports locking up gun criminals for a long, long time........and allowing good people to stop bad guys with guns......it is morons like you joe who want people unarmed and defenseless when these mass shooters start shooting....
 
You blame guns. I blame uncontrolled anger. Any weapon will do when one wants to kill another. Take away one, another will be found. It's been going on since mankind discovered blunt force trauma and spears.

Bullshit. We have 11,000 gun deaths a year. The Japanese have 11. The British hae 48. The germans (who actually restrict gun ownership to RESPONSIBLE citizens) have 268.

Less guns = less murders, less suicides and less accidents. It also leads to less crime.
I would ask WHY, but I know WHY LIBERALS LIE IN HE FACE OF OPPOSING FACTS!

Where gun laws are more restrictive, crime rates are higher. Where guns laws are less restrictive, crime rates are lower.

You are a typical liberal...a chronic LIAR!
 
You blame guns. I blame uncontrolled anger. Any weapon will do when one wants to kill another. Take away one, another will be found. It's been going on since mankind discovered blunt force trauma and spears.

Bullshit. We have 11,000 gun deaths a year. The Japanese have 11. The British hae 48. The germans (who actually restrict gun ownership to RESPONSIBLE citizens) have 268.

Less guns = less murders, less suicides and less accidents. It also leads to less crime.
I would ask WHY, but I know WHY LIBERALS LIE IN HE FACE OF OPPOSING FACTS!

Where gun laws are more restrictive, crime rates are higher. Where guns laws are less restrictive, crime rates are lower.

You are a typical liberal...a chronic LIAR!

That is sometimes true. Link?
 
I believe there is no form of excuse for any commander in chief of that which is necessary to the security of a free State. It is up to the electorate to find someone who doesn't resort to excuses over results.
 
You blame guns. I blame uncontrolled anger. Any weapon will do when one wants to kill another. Take away one, another will be found. It's been going on since mankind discovered blunt force trauma and spears.

Bullshit. We have 11,000 gun deaths a year. The Japanese have 11. The British hae 48. The germans (who actually restrict gun ownership to RESPONSIBLE citizens) have 268.

Less guns = less murders, less suicides and less accidents. It also leads to less crime.
I would ask WHY, but I know WHY LIBERALS LIE IN HE FACE OF OPPOSING FACTS!

Where gun laws are more restrictive, crime rates are higher. Where guns laws are less restrictive, crime rates are lower.

You are a typical liberal...a chronic LIAR!
a typical false dichotomy of the Right. there is no substitute for a well regulated militia.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.
 
You blame guns. I blame uncontrolled anger. Any weapon will do when one wants to kill another. Take away one, another will be found. It's been going on since mankind discovered blunt force trauma and spears.

Bullshit. We have 11,000 gun deaths a year. The Japanese have 11. The British hae 48. The germans (who actually restrict gun ownership to RESPONSIBLE citizens) have 268.

Less guns = less murders, less suicides and less accidents. It also leads to less crime.
I would ask WHY, but I know WHY LIBERALS LIE IN HE FACE OF OPPOSING FACTS!

Where gun laws are more restrictive, crime rates are higher. Where guns laws are less restrictive, crime rates are lower.

You are a typical liberal...a chronic LIAR!

That is sometimes true. Link?
Read before you reply!

Gun Control Myths and Realities Cato Institute


4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don’t.

True. The 31 states that have “shall issue” laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.



1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.

False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn’t know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes “children” up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence.



Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans
UPDATE: An interview that John Lott had on this post on Cam & Company isavailable here (SiriusXM Channel 125).

Original post: Every place that has been banned guns has seen murder rates go up. You cannot point to one place where murder rates have fallen, whether it’s Chicago or D.C. or even island nations such as England, Jamaica, or Ireland.

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked “Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population”). After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996. The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates. The homicide rate only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004. Despite thehugeincreasein the number of police, the murder rate still remained slightly higher than the immediate pre-ban rate.
 
You blame guns. I blame uncontrolled anger. Any weapon will do when one wants to kill another. Take away one, another will be found. It's been going on since mankind discovered blunt force trauma and spears.

Bullshit. We have 11,000 gun deaths a year. The Japanese have 11. The British hae 48. The germans (who actually restrict gun ownership to RESPONSIBLE citizens) have 268.

Less guns = less murders, less suicides and less accidents. It also leads to less crime.
I would ask WHY, but I know WHY LIBERALS LIE IN HE FACE OF OPPOSING FACTS!

Where gun laws are more restrictive, crime rates are higher. Where guns laws are less restrictive, crime rates are lower.

You are a typical liberal...a chronic LIAR!
a typical false dichotomy of the Right. there is no substitute for a well regulated militia.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.


A well regulated militia is sort of hard to carry around with you to stop a violent criminal......carrying a cop around with you would weigh less.......so yeah....a pistol is a great substitute for a well regulated miiltia....
 
You blame guns. I blame uncontrolled anger. Any weapon will do when one wants to kill another. Take away one, another will be found. It's been going on since mankind discovered blunt force trauma and spears.

Bullshit. We have 11,000 gun deaths a year. The Japanese have 11. The British hae 48. The germans (who actually restrict gun ownership to RESPONSIBLE citizens) have 268.

Less guns = less murders, less suicides and less accidents. It also leads to less crime.
I would ask WHY, but I know WHY LIBERALS LIE IN HE FACE OF OPPOSING FACTS!

Where gun laws are more restrictive, crime rates are higher. Where guns laws are less restrictive, crime rates are lower.

You are a typical liberal...a chronic LIAR!
a typical false dichotomy of the Right. there is no substitute for a well regulated militia.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.


A well regulated militia is sort of hard to carry around with you to stop a violent criminal......carrying a cop around with you would weigh less.......so yeah....a pistol is a great substitute for a well regulated miiltia....
Why are we paying regulars for a War on Crime, Drugs, Poverty, and Terror, if all we need is the populace keeping and bearing their Arms for the Good of the State.
 

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