Another Anti Gun Study Uses Gangs To Boost Numbers...

[2aguy]

yes, the next...your gun will kill a family member study, just came out...and, surprise...they include violent criminals who know one another to say your gun will be used to murder your family...nice...

States with most gun owners have more lsquo non-stranger rsquo homicides - Health wellness - The Boston Globe

What did increase with gun ownership? The incidence in murders committed by loved ones, friends, and acquaintances, such as rival gang members.

“Not only do guns not protect people from having strangers kill them but having those guns around puts them at greater risk for being killed in a situation with someone that they do know,” said study co-author Dr. Michael Siegel, professor of community health sciences at the BU School of Public Health.

They printed this story with a straight face no doubt...

 

[JoeB131]

There was nothing about gangs in that article.

And the fact is, most victims of murder know their killers.

Expanded Homicide Data - Crime in the United States 2009

• In 2009, 24.2 percent of victims were slain by family members; 53.8 percent were killed by someone they knew (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.). The relationship of murder victims and offenders was unknown in 43.9 percent of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter incidents in 2009. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 10.)

 

[2aguy]

In 2009, 24.2 percent of victims were slain by family members; 53.8 percent were killed by someone they knew (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.). The relationship of murder victims and offenders was unknown in 43.9 percent of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter incidents in 2009. (Based onExpanded Homicide Data Table 10.)

You do realize that the 53.8 percent number comes from criminally known associates...right? And that they don't isolate out violent homes where abuse and police intervention has already happened...right?

Interview with John Lott author of More Guns Less Crime

Question: Your argument about criminals and deterrence doesn’t tell the whole story. Don’t statistics show that most people are killed by someone they know?

Lott: You are referring to the often-cited statistic that 58 percent of murder victims are killed by either relatives or acquaintances. However, what most people don’t understand is that this “acquaintance murder” number also includes gang members killing other gang members, drug buyers killing drug pushers, cabdrivers killed by customers they picked up for the first time, prostitutes and their clients, and so on. “Acquaintance” covers a wide range of relationships. The vast majority of murders are not committed by previously law-abiding citizens. Ninety percent of adult murderers have had criminal records as adults.

 

[2aguy]

24.2 percent of victims were slain by family members;

Did they include negligent discharges...? Or just murder...?

 

[2aguy]

Here is a breakdown of the FBI stats from 2010...never trust anti gunners...

MURDER BY RELATIONSHIP AND CAUSE Extrano s Alley a gun blog

Looking at the table, we see there were 13,636 total murder victims reported to the FBI. That’s down almost 50 percent from the late 1980’s, before Florida slightly rationalized its gun laws.

Of those 13,636 homicide victims, a total of 11,563 were either friends, neighbors, employer, or employee of the victim, a stranger to the victim, or are unknown. That is 84.8% of the total number of homicide victims.

On the family side of the murder puzzle, a total of 997 homicide victimes were killed by the husband, wife, mother or father of the victim.

A further 577 homicide victims were killed by their son, daughter, brother, or sister.

And 281 were killed by a family member not already listed.

That is a total of 1,855 of 13,636 homicide victims killed by some member of their own family. That is just 13.6% of the total number of homicides. And a surprisingly high percentage of those involve the usual cause of murder in 21st Century America.

The victim and the killer were either partners or rivals in some criminal enterprise. And yes, that includes members of families, friends, acquaintances, and even total strangers. By rule of thumb, 72% of murder victims fit that description. It may be drugs, it may be gambling, it may be some other criminal enterprise. But if someone is dead by violence, you can make money betting they were involved in crime.

And again, from having posted it before...guns save lives and stop violent crime at least 760,000 times a year and that number could be as high as 3 million times a year. These numbers come from research from at least 15 different studies, conducted over 19 years...and that doesn't include obama's study from the CDS that found the number of times a gun is used to save a life and stop violent crime comes in at 500,000 times a year...and that came from studying 19 different gun studies....

 

[PredFan]

There was nothing about gangs in that article.

And the fact is, most victims of murder know their killers.

Expanded Homicide Data - Crime in the United States 2009

• In 2009, 24.2 percent of victims were slain by family members; 53.8 percent were killed by someone they knew (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.). The relationship of murder victims and offenders was unknown in 43.9 percent of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter incidents in 2009. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 10.)

It's still not the fault if the gun. Until we get our heads out of our asses and look for the reasons that this kind if violence happens, it will continue despite any ban of any weapon. As long as the looney left continues to blame the tool, the violence will continue and innocent law abiding people will lose their rights AND their lives.

 

[2aguy]

There was nothing about gangs in that article.

The quote I posted came from that article...you may need to re read the article...

Here it is again...

What did increase with gun ownership? The incidence in murders committed by loved ones, friends, and acquaintances, such as rival gang members.

 

[JoeB131]

[

You do realize that the 53.8 percent number comes from criminally known associates...right? And that they don't isolate out violent homes where abuse and police intervention has already happened...right?

]

Completely irrelavent to the point. Fact was, most murderers know their victims.

And citing John Lott. Unlike Kellerman, John Lott's work has been peer reviewed and debunked.

 

[JoeB131]

[

It's still not the fault if the gun. Until we get our heads out of our asses and look for the reasons that this kind if violence happens, it will continue despite any ban of any weapon. As long as the looney left continues to blame the tool, the violence will continue and innocent law abiding people will lose their rights AND their lives.

No, it's not the fault of the gun.

It's the fault of giving guns to people who shouldn't have them, have no need for them, and show poor judgement when they are used.

 

[2aguy]

hmmm...are you psychic...? Can you see the future? How do you know who needs or doesn't need a gun before they need it? do criminals advise you before they attack their victims? just wondering...

and I don't know what you mean by giving guns to people....most people buy guns...and go through background checks....

 

[JoeB131]

H

And again, from having posted it before...guns save lives and stop violent crime at least 760,000 times a year and that number could be as high as 3 million times a year. These numbers come from research from at least 15 different studies, conducted over 19 years...and that doesn't include obama's study from the CDS that found the number of times a gun is used to save a life and stop violent crime comes in at 500,000 times a year...and that came from studying 19 different gun studies....

Uh, guy, according to the FBI, only 201 cases of homicide with a gun by civilians in 2011 were ruled "Justifiable Self Defense".

FBI mdash Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

So what you are going to have us believe is that 100,000 or 760,000 or 3,000,000 "Defensive Gun Uses" happen every year, and only 200 of them resulted in a dead body.

So you are saying that 99.8% to 99.9992% of the time, your Second Amendment Purist WHIPS OUT HIS GUN and yet is able to face down his attacker by force of will without having to shoot him dead.

Given the murder fantasies we see here by Gun Enthusiasts every day, the folks who idolize Zimmerman because he was "living the dream", I really find this hard to believe.

 

[Geaux4it]

[

It's still not the fault if the gun. Until we get our heads out of our asses and look for the reasons that this kind if violence happens, it will continue despite any ban of any weapon. As long as the looney left continues to blame the tool, the violence will continue and innocent law abiding people will lose their rights AND their lives.

No, it's not the fault of the gun.

It's the fault of giving guns to people who shouldn't have them, have no need for them, and show poor judgement when they are used.

Nice.. real nice... Except the one key pesky fact...

ITS NOT YOUR CALL

-Geaux

 

[2aguy]

So what you are going to have us believe is that 100,000 or 760,000 or 3,000,000 "Defensive Gun Uses" happen every year, and only 200 of them resulted in a dead body.

Not me...up to 19 separate studies on the topic...from both private and government research into the topic...I'll show you the different studies and you can see...it isn't me, but criminologists and other researchers on the subject....

 

[2aguy]

Here are the studies...you can see the information on the link...I listed the year of the study and the number of times they say that guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime...and it goes to show...people who use guns do not kill reflexively, as you just pointed out...they often simply present the weapon and the criminals flee, or they calmly hold the criminals for police...or they simply wound the criminal...

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")

Obama's CDC...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.

7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”

You can disagree with all of these studies...but that is a lot of research to be wrong...over a long period of time...

 

[JoeB131]

So what you are going to have us believe is that 100,000 or 760,000 or 3,000,000 "Defensive Gun Uses" happen every year, and only 200 of them resulted in a dead body.

Not me...up to 19 separate studies on the topic...from both private and government research into the topic...I'll show you the different studies and you can see...it isn't me, but criminologists and other researchers on the subject....

19 separate studies of something that really can't be quanitified or verified.

Only 200 dead bodies. Self-Defense almost never happens.

 

[PredFan]

[

It's still not the fault if the gun. Until we get our heads out of our asses and look for the reasons that this kind if violence happens, it will continue despite any ban of any weapon. As long as the looney left continues to blame the tool, the violence will continue and innocent law abiding people will lose their rights AND their lives.

No, it's not the fault of the gun.

It's the fault of giving guns to people who shouldn't have them, have no need for them, and show poor judgement when they are used.

Wrong. You are still blaming the gun. What about the willingness to do violence? Until we take our heads out of our asses and look at that, we will only do harm.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong. You are still blaming the gun. What about the willingness to do violence? Until we take our heads out of our asses and look at that, we will only do harm.

Take away the guns, their ability to do violence will be diminished.

 

[rightwinger]

OK NRAbots

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of gang members?

 

[Old Rocks]

Simple fact, next year, if present trends continue, more people will be killed in the US with a gun than die in auto accidents. We are a first world nation with third world stastics concerning suicides and homocides with guns.

 

[skookerasbil]

Wrong. You are still blaming the gun. What about the willingness to do violence? Until we take our heads out of our asses and look at that, we will only do harm.

Take away the guns, their ability to do violence will be diminished.

as usual..........fAiL.........owning guns hasn't been this popular since 1959!!! Almost 21 million sales so far this year!!


Indeed.......the gun nuts are loving it!!!

IN 2014, the gun grabbers are politically irrelevant except in far left districts = lOsInG biG

Gallup Poll Support for gun control is waning opposition to handgun ban at all-time high



Anyway.......Harvard University slammed dunked on the whole topic a little over a year ago........after a long research period, they concluded >>>

MORE GUNS = less crimes

Not even debatable.......the summary >>>



Many people believe that owning guns only increases the amount of crime. However, a recent study published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy concluded that there is a negative correlation between gun ownership and violent crime in countries internationally. In other words, the more guns the less crime. The study showed that nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate that is three times that of the nine European nations with the highest gun ownership rate.



Sentiments of the far left gun gabbers gets.........




Here is the entire paper >>>>

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf




Note that all the gun grabbers on this thread are fond of throwing out conjecture and emotional rants which are the standard for these people. But facts are facts........take peoples guns and they are fucked.