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I think all of these people may have re thought carrying a gun.....
Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The Carr brothers, 22-year-old Reginald and 20-year-old Jonathan, already had lengthy criminal records when they began their spree.[4] On December 8, 2000, having recently arrived in Wichita, they committed armed robbery against 23-year-old assistant baseball coach, Andrew Schreiber. Three days later, they shot and mortally wounded 55-year-old cellist and librarian, Ann Walenta, as she tried to escape from them in her car; she died three days later.
Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when they invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They initially scoured the house for valuables. In a much-remarked point of tragedy, H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage when the Carrs, by chance, discovered the engagement ring hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual humiliation, including rape andoral sex.[4] They also forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They then drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before finally taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town and shooting them execution-style in the backs of their heads, leaving them for dead. The Carr brothers then drove Befort's truck over the bodies.
They returned to the house to ransack it for more valuables, and in the process killed Nikki, H.G.'s muzzled dog. H.G. survived because her metal barrette deflected the bullet, and ran naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to report the attack and seek medical attention.
The Carr brothers, who took few precautions, were captured by the police the next day, and Reginald was identified by Schreiber and the dying Walenta. The District Attorney stated that the Carrs' motive was robbery.[5]
brain....quite the gun grabber aren't you......
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
I hear the pro gun side then find the anti gun side and decide for myself which is more accurate. Listening to you one would think anyone not carrying is doomed. I think the facts show we are all pretty safe if you are not involved in criminal activity. I don't know anyone who has ever been murdered.
there are people who were attacked by violent criminals and they didn't have a gun...and they were butchered.....and if you can guarantee people that they will never be the victim chosen by violent criminals...you should set up a business....you could make billions of dollars telling people that......
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
I think all of these people may have re thought carrying a gun.....
Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The Carr brothers, 22-year-old Reginald and 20-year-old Jonathan, already had lengthy criminal records when they began their spree.[4] On December 8, 2000, having recently arrived in Wichita, they committed armed robbery against 23-year-old assistant baseball coach, Andrew Schreiber. Three days later, they shot and mortally wounded 55-year-old cellist and librarian, Ann Walenta, as she tried to escape from them in her car; she died three days later.
Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when they invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They initially scoured the house for valuables. In a much-remarked point of tragedy, H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage when the Carrs, by chance, discovered the engagement ring hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual humiliation, including rape andoral sex.[4] They also forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They then drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before finally taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town and shooting them execution-style in the backs of their heads, leaving them for dead. The Carr brothers then drove Befort's truck over the bodies.
They returned to the house to ransack it for more valuables, and in the process killed Nikki, H.G.'s muzzled dog. H.G. survived because her metal barrette deflected the bullet, and ran naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to report the attack and seek medical attention.
The Carr brothers, who took few precautions, were captured by the police the next day, and Reginald was identified by Schreiber and the dying Walenta. The District Attorney stated that the Carrs' motive was robbery.[5]
You choose to be paranoid about rare events. You have never had a dgu, nor do you know anyone who has ever been murdered. Our country is quite safe if you aren't involved in criminal behavior.
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
I hear the pro gun side then find the anti gun side and decide for myself which is more accurate. Listening to you one would think anyone not carrying is doomed. I think the facts show we are all pretty safe if you are not involved in criminal activity. I don't know anyone who has ever been murdered.
there are people who were attacked by violent criminals and they didn't have a gun...and they were butchered.....and if you can guarantee people that they will never be the victim chosen by violent criminals...you should set up a business....you could make billions of dollars telling people that......
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
And if you have a gun you are the one most likely to be saved by it if you are attacked by a criminal.....and since 2 million people a year use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives......that is a lot of people saved from the fate of those poor people......
I think all of these people may have re thought carrying a gun.....
Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The Carr brothers, 22-year-old Reginald and 20-year-old Jonathan, already had lengthy criminal records when they began their spree.[4] On December 8, 2000, having recently arrived in Wichita, they committed armed robbery against 23-year-old assistant baseball coach, Andrew Schreiber. Three days later, they shot and mortally wounded 55-year-old cellist and librarian, Ann Walenta, as she tried to escape from them in her car; she died three days later.
Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when they invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They initially scoured the house for valuables. In a much-remarked point of tragedy, H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage when the Carrs, by chance, discovered the engagement ring hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual humiliation, including rape andoral sex.[4] They also forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They then drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before finally taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town and shooting them execution-style in the backs of their heads, leaving them for dead. The Carr brothers then drove Befort's truck over the bodies.
They returned to the house to ransack it for more valuables, and in the process killed Nikki, H.G.'s muzzled dog. H.G. survived because her metal barrette deflected the bullet, and ran naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to report the attack and seek medical attention.
The Carr brothers, who took few precautions, were captured by the police the next day, and Reginald was identified by Schreiber and the dying Walenta. The District Attorney stated that the Carrs' motive was robbery.[5]
You choose to be paranoid about rare events. You have never had a dgu, nor do you know anyone who has ever been murdered. Our country is quite safe if you aren't involved in criminal behavior.
Which of your strategies was successful against these two monsters...pick one or both...
1) the good intentions of the violent criminals....
2) pure dumb luck.....
gun grabbers...which of the two do you want to trust your life to.....?
brain....quite the gun grabber aren't you......
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
I hear the pro gun side then find the anti gun side and decide for myself which is more accurate. Listening to you one would think anyone not carrying is doomed. I think the facts show we are all pretty safe if you are not involved in criminal activity. I don't know anyone who has ever been murdered.
there are people who were attacked by violent criminals and they didn't have a gun...and they were butchered.....and if you can guarantee people that they will never be the victim chosen by violent criminals...you should set up a business....you could make billions of dollars telling people that......
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
I hear the pro gun side then find the anti gun side and decide for myself which is more accurate. Listening to you one would think anyone not carrying is doomed. I think the facts show we are all pretty safe if you are not involved in criminal activity. I don't know anyone who has ever been murdered.
there are people who were attacked by violent criminals and they didn't have a gun...and they were butchered.....and if you can guarantee people that they will never be the victim chosen by violent criminals...you should set up a business....you could make billions of dollars telling people that......
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
And if you have a gun you are the one most likely to be saved by it if you are attacked by a criminal.....and since 2 million people a year use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives......that is a lot of people saved from the fate of those poor people......
The vast majority of gun studies say it is less than 2 million. Ncvs says 108k. Also most defenses are by people involved in criminal activity.
brain....quite the gun grabber aren't you......
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
I hear the pro gun side then find the anti gun side and decide for myself which is more accurate. Listening to you one would think anyone not carrying is doomed. I think the facts show we are all pretty safe if you are not involved in criminal activity. I don't know anyone who has ever been murdered.
there are people who were attacked by violent criminals and they didn't have a gun...and they were butchered.....and if you can guarantee people that they will never be the victim chosen by violent criminals...you should set up a business....you could make billions of dollars telling people that......
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
I think all of these people may have re thought carrying a gun.....
Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The Carr brothers, 22-year-old Reginald and 20-year-old Jonathan, already had lengthy criminal records when they began their spree.[4] On December 8, 2000, having recently arrived in Wichita, they committed armed robbery against 23-year-old assistant baseball coach, Andrew Schreiber. Three days later, they shot and mortally wounded 55-year-old cellist and librarian, Ann Walenta, as she tried to escape from them in her car; she died three days later.
Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when they invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They initially scoured the house for valuables. In a much-remarked point of tragedy, H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage when the Carrs, by chance, discovered the engagement ring hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual humiliation, including rape andoral sex.[4] They also forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They then drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before finally taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town and shooting them execution-style in the backs of their heads, leaving them for dead. The Carr brothers then drove Befort's truck over the bodies.
They returned to the house to ransack it for more valuables, and in the process killed Nikki, H.G.'s muzzled dog. H.G. survived because her metal barrette deflected the bullet, and ran naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to report the attack and seek medical attention.
The Carr brothers, who took few precautions, were captured by the police the next day, and Reginald was identified by Schreiber and the dying Walenta. The District Attorney stated that the Carrs' motive was robbery.[5]
You choose to be paranoid about rare events. You have never had a dgu, nor do you know anyone who has ever been murdered. Our country is quite safe if you aren't involved in criminal behavior.
Which of your strategies was successful against these two monsters...pick one or both...
1) the good intentions of the violent criminals....
2) pure dumb luck.....
gun grabbers...which of the two do you want to trust your life to.....?
Woman accidentally kills self adjusting bra holster
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
I hear the pro gun side then find the anti gun side and decide for myself which is more accurate. Listening to you one would think anyone not carrying is doomed. I think the facts show we are all pretty safe if you are not involved in criminal activity. I don't know anyone who has ever been murdered.
there are people who were attacked by violent criminals and they didn't have a gun...and they were butchered.....and if you can guarantee people that they will never be the victim chosen by violent criminals...you should set up a business....you could make billions of dollars telling people that......
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
using your number of 17,000 non fatal gun accidents....and 2013 fatal gun accidents...505...that makes 17,505 accidental shootings.....and the lowest number from the gun studies we have for self defense use of guns is 760,000....while the average number from all the studies for self defense non military, non police was 2 million....
so.....17,505 accidental shootings and only 505 accidental gun deaths....
Vs. over 320 million guns in private hands, with 90 million or more homes with a gun in them and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....
not a problem...you are the one who is paranoid.......
I hear the pro gun side then find the anti gun side and decide for myself which is more accurate. Listening to you one would think anyone not carrying is doomed. I think the facts show we are all pretty safe if you are not involved in criminal activity. I don't know anyone who has ever been murdered.
there are people who were attacked by violent criminals and they didn't have a gun...and they were butchered.....and if you can guarantee people that they will never be the victim chosen by violent criminals...you should set up a business....you could make billions of dollars telling people that......
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
And if you have a gun you are the one most likely to be saved by it if you are attacked by a criminal.....and since 2 million people a year use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives......that is a lot of people saved from the fate of those poor people......
The vast majority of gun studies say it is less than 2 million. Ncvs says 108k. Also most defenses are by people involved in criminal activity.
and no, most are not involved in criminal activity and you know that.....and again the NCVS is not a gun study and can't even get the numbers right on the things it does study like rape and sexual assault where it is off by a factor of 10.......
brain....quite the gun grabber aren't you......
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
brain....quite the gun grabber aren't you......
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
It's funny. I was listening to Hannity on the radio today and while I typically don't agree with him on much he was pretty good on guns. He said anyone carrying should only draw their gun if they are absolutely sure it is needed to save a life. He also said you need to be properly trained and use caution because you never want to accidently hurt yourself or others. He also said you need to store your guns properly. Sounds like he has the little safe you put a code in to open. There was more but was all pretty good.
there are people who were attacked by violent criminals and they didn't have a gun...and they were butchered.....and if you can guarantee people that they will never be the victim chosen by violent criminals...you should set up a business....you could make billions of dollars telling people that......
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
And if you have a gun you are the one most likely to be saved by it if you are attacked by a criminal.....and since 2 million people a year use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives......that is a lot of people saved from the fate of those poor people......
The vast majority of gun studies say it is less than 2 million. Ncvs says 108k. Also most defenses are by people involved in criminal activity.
and no, most are not involved in criminal activity and you know that.....and again the NCVS is not a gun study and can't even get the numbers right on the things it does study like rape and sexual assault where it is off by a factor of 10.......
Most are obviously involved in criminal activity. Armed thugs live in high crime areas. They defend their stuff too. High crime areas are where the majority of defenses are. Also Kleck himself has said most are involved in criminal activity.
Also Kleck himself has said most are involved in criminal activity
brain....quite the gun grabber aren't you......
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
It's funny. I was listening to Hannity on the radio today and while I typically don't agree with him on much he was pretty good on guns. He said anyone carrying should only draw their gun if they are absolutely sure it is needed to save a life. He also said you need to be properly trained and use caution because you never want to accidently hurt yourself or others. He also said you need to store your guns properly. Sounds like he has the little safe you put a code in to open. There was more but was all pretty good.
What is so odd....every gun person I know agrees and supports what he said. it is the anti gunners who don't really know gun owners and think that they are all just itching to shoot someone...I constantly point out how wrong that view of gun owners is and the anti-gun nuts tell me I'm wrong.......the anti-gun nuts live in their own fantasy world where they have created a mythical gun owner that fits their beliefs abouteople in general....as I have said in the past...gun control is just a symptom of the anti gunners fear and loathing of people......
brain....quite the gun grabber aren't you......
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
It's funny. I was listening to Hannity on the radio today and while I typically don't agree with him on much he was pretty good on guns. He said anyone carrying should only draw their gun if they are absolutely sure it is needed to save a life. He also said you need to be properly trained and use caution because you never want to accidently hurt yourself or others. He also said you need to store your guns properly. Sounds like he has the little safe you put a code in to open. There was more but was all pretty good.
What is so odd....every gun person I know agrees and supports what he said. it is the anti gunners who don't really know gun owners and think that they are all just itching to shoot someone...I constantly point out how wrong that view of gun owners is and the anti-gun nuts tell me I'm wrong.......the anti-gun nuts live in their own fantasy world where they have created a mythical gun owner that fits their beliefs abouteople in general....as I have said in the past...gun control is just a symptom of the anti gunners fear and loathing of people......
Something coming out of his mouth I agree with was odd.
And many people carrying have shot themselves dead accidently or some innocent person. More people are shot accidently than are killed purposely. If you own a gun the person most likely to be shot and killed by it is yourself. It's all individual choice. I think people need all the facts.
And if you have a gun you are the one most likely to be saved by it if you are attacked by a criminal.....and since 2 million people a year use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives......that is a lot of people saved from the fate of those poor people......
The vast majority of gun studies say it is less than 2 million. Ncvs says 108k. Also most defenses are by people involved in criminal activity.
and no, most are not involved in criminal activity and you know that.....and again the NCVS is not a gun study and can't even get the numbers right on the things it does study like rape and sexual assault where it is off by a factor of 10.......
Most are obviously involved in criminal activity. Armed thugs live in high crime areas. They defend their stuff too. High crime areas are where the majority of defenses are. Also Kleck himself has said most are involved in criminal activity.
Also Kleck himself has said most are involved in criminal activity
And there you go being dishonest again.....this is what Kleck said this year......
Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine
In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime. The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.
Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.
So, you know Kleck did not say they were criminals involved in criminal business, but law abiding citizens who didn't necessarily have a permit to carry a gun for self defense in the 1990s, when the study was conducted....by implying he said they were actual criminals, drug dealers, violent rapists, robbers, murderers, you show that you don't want to tell the truth but to sway the debate against gun ownership......by lying about one of the best studies on self defense with a gun, in particular, and gun ownership in general.....
Read more: Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine
You still haven't posted where I have ever suggested banning guns. I'm just interested in the facts.
Which always support the worst case scenarios with guns.........you are a smart gun banner....but a gun banner none the less......
It's funny. I was listening to Hannity on the radio today and while I typically don't agree with him on much he was pretty good on guns. He said anyone carrying should only draw their gun if they are absolutely sure it is needed to save a life. He also said you need to be properly trained and use caution because you never want to accidently hurt yourself or others. He also said you need to store your guns properly. Sounds like he has the little safe you put a code in to open. There was more but was all pretty good.
What is so odd....every gun person I know agrees and supports what he said. it is the anti gunners who don't really know gun owners and think that they are all just itching to shoot someone...I constantly point out how wrong that view of gun owners is and the anti-gun nuts tell me I'm wrong.......the anti-gun nuts live in their own fantasy world where they have created a mythical gun owner that fits their beliefs abouteople in general....as I have said in the past...gun control is just a symptom of the anti gunners fear and loathing of people......
Something coming out of his mouth I agree with was odd.
You need to listen to him more often.......
And if you have a gun you are the one most likely to be saved by it if you are attacked by a criminal.....and since 2 million people a year use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives......that is a lot of people saved from the fate of those poor people......
The vast majority of gun studies say it is less than 2 million. Ncvs says 108k. Also most defenses are by people involved in criminal activity.
and no, most are not involved in criminal activity and you know that.....and again the NCVS is not a gun study and can't even get the numbers right on the things it does study like rape and sexual assault where it is off by a factor of 10.......
Most are obviously involved in criminal activity. Armed thugs live in high crime areas. They defend their stuff too. High crime areas are where the majority of defenses are. Also Kleck himself has said most are involved in criminal activity.
Also Kleck himself has said most are involved in criminal activity
And there you go being dishonest again.....this is what Kleck said this year......
Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine
In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime. The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.
Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.
So, you know Kleck did not say they were criminals involved in criminal business, but law abiding citizens who didn't necessarily have a permit to carry a gun for self defense in the 1990s, when the study was conducted....by implying he said they were actual criminals, drug dealers, violent rapists, robbers, murderers, you show that you don't want to tell the truth but to sway the debate against gun ownership......by lying about one of the best studies on self defense with a gun, in particular, and gun ownership in general.....
Read more: Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine
First he has said in the past most defenses are at home(which is what most say including Lott). Seems he flip flops depending on what he is defending. I'm still waiting for you to explain that. And nowhere in your quote is he saying defenders aren't people who are involved in criminal activity. He is stating that the defense itself is not criminal. So yesterdays robber is not actually committing a crime other than unlawful possession of a gun during the defense. Nothing states the defender is not otherwise a criminal.
