CDZ Another Question for Gun Owners

[Fair&Balanced]

Sorry.....they include suicide...that is how they get their numbers up...suicide doesn't count....and you need to link to the actual article so we can actually discuss what they said....

Please explain why suicide doesn't count.

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

So what?


Odd that you liberals defend a woman's right to choose to end a fetus's life , yet cry that guns make it easier for a person to choose to end their OWN life.

Stupid pro lifers.

 

[Skull Pilot]

People with cars are more likely to get in car accidents than people without cars

Cars' primary purpose is not killing.

And the guns purpose is not to kill either...in fact, it often does it's job...keeping the owner safe from hunger and violent attack, without firing a shot......

Bull. The gun is the only tool used by man designed with one purpose and one only - to kill.

The purpose is to fire a projectile at a target
The killing part is up to the person choosing the target

Well then there goes the 2nd Amendment argument.

Not at all

Where in the second amendment des it say anything about the purpose of firearms?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry.....they include suicide...that is how they get their numbers up...suicide doesn't count....and you need to link to the actual article so we can actually discuss what they said....

Please explain why suicide doesn't count.

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

Proven by whom?

And of guns are the best choice for suicide why do only half of all suicides use guns?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

No....they have higher suicide rates....and their gun death rates have to do with the thug culture.......most thug cultures around the world don't commit murder the way ours do......except for Russia and Mexico....they have extreme gun control and higher gun murder rates.....

In Japan...they use guns and grenades...I believe you would have to admit that both are illegal in Japan...even the grenades.....yet they still don't kill each other that much, they have an honor code......

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths. At least seven deaths, including one civilian's, were from gunfire; a phenomenally high figure when you consider the number of gun deaths for all of Japan in 2011 was eight people. (Japan has some of the strictest gun-control laws in the world.)

But.....I thought they didn't have machine guns in Japan.......

The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.

There have also been civilian casualties.

On November 8, 2007, a 61-year-old Dojin-kai-affiliated gang member shot a civilian by mistake at a hospital in Takeo, Saga Prefecture. The gangster later admitted he thought that the target was associated with the enemy, but the victim had no ties with gangs. He was just a 34-year-old metalwork-factory owner.

Normally, hospitals, wedding halls, and even funeral halls (no irony intended) are considered dishonorable places to wage gang wars. One of the reasons being that the risk of civilian causalities is too high.


When did gang bangers in Chicago worry about civilian causalties? That is a difference in thug culture.....that is what determines the gun murder rate...since obviously these criminals get machine guns and grenades...even in Japan......

Right, it's Japanese culture, and not the fact that Japan has a tiny fraction of the gun ownership rate we do:

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

But what about the country at the other end of the spectrum? What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, with onerous restrictions on buying and maintaining the few that are allowed. Even the country's infamous, mafia-like Yakuza tend to forgo guns; the few exceptionstend to become big national news stories.

Feel free to move to Japan

 

[emilynghiem]

Cars' primary purpose is not killing.

And the guns purpose is not to kill either...in fact, it often does it's job...keeping the owner safe from hunger and violent attack, without firing a shot......

Bull. The gun is the only tool used by man designed with one purpose and one only - to kill.

The purpose is to fire a projectile at a target
The killing part is up to the person choosing the target

Well then there goes the 2nd Amendment argument.

Not at all

Where in the second amendment des it say anything about the purpose of firearms?

Dear Skull Pilot
the 2nd Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights and Constitution.
This includes equally the
* right to due process and not being deprived of liberty without conviction of a crime
* protection against unusual punishments
* right to assemble peaceably in public and securely in our persons houses and effects

so can it be assumed that if we are invoking and enforcing the 2nd Amendment,
then due to enumeration not putting any rights before others,
we are ALSO including all the other Amendments and rest of the Constitution
in enforcing and defending the laws equally?

 

[emilynghiem]

Odd that you liberals defend a woman's right to choose to end a fetus's life kill an innocent child in cold blood , yet cry that guns make it easier for a person to choose to end their OWN life.

Fixed it for you.

But then that's wrong-wing ideology for you. They care more for the lives of violent criminals than they do for the lives of the most innocent and defenseless babies.

Dear Bob Blaylock that's part of the nature of political parties.
Same as Republicans caring more to defend the beliefs of Christians than of Muslims if most of their constituency is Christian.
And caring more to defend the beliefs in traditional marriage than in same sex marriage if that is the majority of their voting constituency they represent.

Parties have become political religions, and are no more or less like
Protestants and Catholics, Buddhists or Christians who are going to represent the voice of their members. It's not their job to do otherwise, or they'd be a different denomination.

As in courts, they are going to argue that the responsibility to defend the interests of the "other party" belongs to the other legal counsel, not to them.

If you want Constitutionalists to enforce what is inclusive and representative of all people, then we need to put the Constitution first before parties, or they're all hypocrites pushing their own agenda beliefs and interests before Constitutional equality and inclusion of all people and parties that make up America's public interest.

 

[GaryDog]

Cars' primary purpose is not killing.

And the guns purpose is not to kill either...in fact, it often does it's job...keeping the owner safe from hunger and violent attack, without firing a shot......

Bull. The gun is the only tool used by man designed with one purpose and one only - to kill.

The purpose is to fire a projectile at a target
The killing part is up to the person choosing the target

Well then there goes the 2nd Amendment argument.

Not at all

Where in the second amendment des it say anything about the purpose of firearms?

"being necessary to the security of a free State,"

 

[GaryDog]

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

No....they have higher suicide rates....and their gun death rates have to do with the thug culture.......most thug cultures around the world don't commit murder the way ours do......except for Russia and Mexico....they have extreme gun control and higher gun murder rates.....

In Japan...they use guns and grenades...I believe you would have to admit that both are illegal in Japan...even the grenades.....yet they still don't kill each other that much, they have an honor code......

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths. At least seven deaths, including one civilian's, were from gunfire; a phenomenally high figure when you consider the number of gun deaths for all of Japan in 2011 was eight people. (Japan has some of the strictest gun-control laws in the world.)

But.....I thought they didn't have machine guns in Japan.......

The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.

There have also been civilian casualties.

On November 8, 2007, a 61-year-old Dojin-kai-affiliated gang member shot a civilian by mistake at a hospital in Takeo, Saga Prefecture. The gangster later admitted he thought that the target was associated with the enemy, but the victim had no ties with gangs. He was just a 34-year-old metalwork-factory owner.

Normally, hospitals, wedding halls, and even funeral halls (no irony intended) are considered dishonorable places to wage gang wars. One of the reasons being that the risk of civilian causalities is too high.


When did gang bangers in Chicago worry about civilian causalties? That is a difference in thug culture.....that is what determines the gun murder rate...since obviously these criminals get machine guns and grenades...even in Japan......

Right, it's Japanese culture, and not the fact that Japan has a tiny fraction of the gun ownership rate we do:

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

But what about the country at the other end of the spectrum? What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, with onerous restrictions on buying and maintaining the few that are allowed. Even the country's infamous, mafia-like Yakuza tend to forgo guns; the few exceptionstend to become big national news stories.

Feel free to move to Japan

So you're all done attempting to argue intelligently about policy?

Probably a good move.

 

[GaryDog]

Please explain why suicide doesn't count.

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

Proven by whom?

And of guns are the best choice for suicide why do only half of all suicides use guns?

Do you know what "plurality" means?

 

[GaryDog]

Please explain why suicide doesn't count.

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

So what?


Odd that you liberals defend a woman's right to choose to end a fetus's life , yet cry that guns make it easier for a person to choose to end their OWN life.

Stupid pro lifers.

I'm actually very much in favor of assisted suicide, and I'm glad I live in a state that allows it. That's irrelevant to the discussion though.

And it's not uncommon for you gun crazies to deflect to abortion when we prove just how murderous your gun policy has been.

 

[320 Years of History]

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

So what?


Odd that you liberals defend a woman's right to choose to end a fetus's life , yet cry that guns make it easier for a person to choose to end their OWN life.

Stupid pro lifers.

I'm actually very much in favor of assisted suicide, and I'm glad I live in a state that allows it. That's irrelevant to the discussion though.

And it's not uncommon for you gun crazies to deflect to abortion when we prove just how murderous your gun policy has been.

Do they limit the route of deflection to abortion? LOL Would that that be merely the bounds of it. LOL

 

[2aguy]

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

No....they have higher suicide rates....and their gun death rates have to do with the thug culture.......most thug cultures around the world don't commit murder the way ours do......except for Russia and Mexico....they have extreme gun control and higher gun murder rates.....

In Japan...they use guns and grenades...I believe you would have to admit that both are illegal in Japan...even the grenades.....yet they still don't kill each other that much, they have an honor code......

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths. At least seven deaths, including one civilian's, were from gunfire; a phenomenally high figure when you consider the number of gun deaths for all of Japan in 2011 was eight people. (Japan has some of the strictest gun-control laws in the world.)

But.....I thought they didn't have machine guns in Japan.......

The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.

There have also been civilian casualties.

On November 8, 2007, a 61-year-old Dojin-kai-affiliated gang member shot a civilian by mistake at a hospital in Takeo, Saga Prefecture. The gangster later admitted he thought that the target was associated with the enemy, but the victim had no ties with gangs. He was just a 34-year-old metalwork-factory owner.

Normally, hospitals, wedding halls, and even funeral halls (no irony intended) are considered dishonorable places to wage gang wars. One of the reasons being that the risk of civilian causalities is too high.


When did gang bangers in Chicago worry about civilian causalties? That is a difference in thug culture.....that is what determines the gun murder rate...since obviously these criminals get machine guns and grenades...even in Japan......

Right, it's Japanese culture, and not the fact that Japan has a tiny fraction of the gun ownership rate we do:

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

But what about the country at the other end of the spectrum? What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, with onerous restrictions on buying and maintaining the few that are allowed. Even the country's infamous, mafia-like Yakuza tend to forgo guns; the few exceptionstend to become big national news stories.

Thank you......you used the Atlantic article on Japanese gun control.....do you realize they cite David Kopel a their source......on Japanese gun control....and they actually lie about what he says......here ...read this and you will see that anti gun journalists lie.....

Here....you can see how the anti gun journalists lie.....the link you posted uses this man's work...

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

And they lie about it...he does not say what the Atlantic article suggests he says.....watch this...

Quoted from your link to the Atlantic article..

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it’s not easy to do. The process is detailed in David Kopel’s landmark study on Japanese gun control, published in the 1993 Asia Pacific Law Review, still cited as current. (Kopel, no left-wing loony, is a member of the National Rifle Association and once wrote in National Review that looser gun control laws could have stopped Adolf Hitler.)

My link is his actual work...that the Atlantic journal cites from ......but they skip the part where he says gun control has nothing to do with their low gun crime.....

What does he actually say about Japan's gun control laws...keeping in mind they use his work to say it is Japanese gun control that keeps gun crime low....from my link....

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.

Notice how they didn't cite him using that quote?

This is the part of his piece they don't qoute...how the Japanese actually keep all crime, not just gun crime low...

Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.

Do you notice the bias in the article in how they quote the expert they quote...how his work completely contradicts their point about gun control...?

 

[2aguy]

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

No....they have higher suicide rates....and their gun death rates have to do with the thug culture.......most thug cultures around the world don't commit murder the way ours do......except for Russia and Mexico....they have extreme gun control and higher gun murder rates.....

In Japan...they use guns and grenades...I believe you would have to admit that both are illegal in Japan...even the grenades.....yet they still don't kill each other that much, they have an honor code......

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths. At least seven deaths, including one civilian's, were from gunfire; a phenomenally high figure when you consider the number of gun deaths for all of Japan in 2011 was eight people. (Japan has some of the strictest gun-control laws in the world.)

But.....I thought they didn't have machine guns in Japan.......

The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.

There have also been civilian casualties.

On November 8, 2007, a 61-year-old Dojin-kai-affiliated gang member shot a civilian by mistake at a hospital in Takeo, Saga Prefecture. The gangster later admitted he thought that the target was associated with the enemy, but the victim had no ties with gangs. He was just a 34-year-old metalwork-factory owner.

Normally, hospitals, wedding halls, and even funeral halls (no irony intended) are considered dishonorable places to wage gang wars. One of the reasons being that the risk of civilian causalities is too high.


When did gang bangers in Chicago worry about civilian causalties? That is a difference in thug culture.....that is what determines the gun murder rate...since obviously these criminals get machine guns and grenades...even in Japan......

Right, it's Japanese culture, and not the fact that Japan has a tiny fraction of the gun ownership rate we do:

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

But what about the country at the other end of the spectrum? What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, with onerous restrictions on buying and maintaining the few that are allowed. Even the country's infamous, mafia-like Yakuza tend to forgo guns; the few exceptionstend to become big national news stories.

Okay....I showed you how your link, the Atlantic article on gun control doesn't use what David Kopel actually said about how Japan keeps their gun crime low......do you acknowledge that your source, the Atlantic article lied about Japan...and how they do it based on their use of David Kopel...?

The atlantic article...here is where they cite David Kopel's landmark work on Japanese gun control....They even say he is no left wing looney...then they don't quote the part where he says their gun control laws have almost nothing to do with their low gun crime rate......they forgot that....didn't they....I didn't though...

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

The process is detailed in David Kopel’s landmark study on Japanese gun control, published in the 1993 Asia Pacific Law Review, still cited as current. (Kopel, no left-wing loony, is a member of the National Rifle Association and once wrote in National Review that looser gun control laws could have stopped Adolf Hitler.)

And what David Kopel actually said......


Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.

Do you acknowledge that the journalist from the Atlantic is dishonest...and didn't tell the truth...?

 

[2aguy]

Please explain why suicide doesn't count.

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

So what?


Odd that you liberals defend a woman's right to choose to end a fetus's life , yet cry that guns make it easier for a person to choose to end their OWN life.

Stupid pro lifers.

What if a Doctor used a gun to help a patient commit suicide.....that must tie the anti gunners into knots trying to figure that one out......

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And it's not uncommon for you gun crazies to deflect to abortion when we prove just how murderous your gun policy has been.

By the hardest stretch, you can tie about thirty thousands deaths each year to guns.

Compared to that, your side has the blood of over a million and a half innocent children on your hands, each year, due to abortion.

There is no moral high ground for those of you who defend the “right” to slaughter these children; to take over those of us who defend the right to keep and bear arms. In fact, if there is any lower ground than that which you occupy, it would be difficult to find it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And the guns purpose is not to kill either...in fact, it often does it's job...keeping the owner safe from hunger and violent attack, without firing a shot......

Bull. The gun is the only tool used by man designed with one purpose and one only - to kill.

The purpose is to fire a projectile at a target
The killing part is up to the person choosing the target

Well then there goes the 2nd Amendment argument.

Not at all

Where in the second amendment des it say anything about the purpose of firearms?

"being necessary to the security of a free State,"

That clause was not about guns it was about a militia and the militia was defined as the people

so you see a gun is nothing but a hunk of metal without a human to wield it

I don't know if you realize it yet but guns are inanimate objects incapable of doing anything

 

[Skull Pilot]

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

Proven by whom?

And of guns are the best choice for suicide why do only half of all suicides use guns?

Do you know what "plurality" means?

If guns are the best choice for suicide then why are only half of all suicides committed with guns?

Anyone who wants to kill themselves will gun or no gun

And suicide is a choice it's not up to you to tell anyone they must live

 

[Howey]

And the guns purpose is not to kill either...in fact, it often does it's job...keeping the owner safe from hunger and violent attack, without firing a shot......

Bull. The gun is the only tool used by man designed with one purpose and one only - to kill.

The purpose is to fire a projectile at a target
The killing part is up to the person choosing the target

Well then there goes the 2nd Amendment argument.

Not at all

Where in the second amendment des it say anything about the purpose of firearms?

"being necessary to the security of a free State,"

US v Cruikshank:

"The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence"

 

[Howey]

Bull. The gun is the only tool used by man designed with one purpose and one only - to kill.

The purpose is to fire a projectile at a target
The killing part is up to the person choosing the target

Well then there goes the 2nd Amendment argument.

Not at all

Where in the second amendment des it say anything about the purpose of firearms?

"being necessary to the security of a free State,"

That clause was not about guns it was about a militia and the militia was defined as the people

so you see a gun is nothing but a hunk of metal without a human to wield it

I don't know if you realize it yet but guns are inanimate objects incapable of doing anything

Gotta love these Constitutional purists!

Look. You wanna have a gun, buy a musket, keep it in the local armory.

 

[Howey]

Suicide doesn't count because 1) it is an intentional act 2) it can be done without a gun....

Japan, South Korea, And China only allow criminals and police to have guns....and their suicide rates are higher than ours.....

Also......a lot of European countries also have higher suicide rates than we do and they have extreme gun control.......France, Poland and others.....

And here we have European countries with higher suicide rates than we do...and they have extreme gun control...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Actually, 7 of the 10 states with the highest suicide rates also have the most lax gun laws:

10 U.S. States With the Highest and Lowest Suicide Rates

And since you're suddenly interested in Hungary, Belgium, Finland, France, et al, why don't you check out the gun control laws in those countries, along with the gun death rates.

Finally, please cite the law in Japan that allows criminals to have guns. LOL

Notice those states......they have bigger issues than guns for suicide.......lot's of loneliness, aclohol and drug use....and hanging is the most popular method of suicide around the world...in Japan....trains and tall buildings...


The law doesn't....that is the whole point...they get them anyway even in Japan..........

Guns have been proven to make suicide attempts more often successful, and also more tempting. This isn't really a controversial point. A death is a death.

You said suicide is an "intentional" act. Like homicide isn't??

You just proved that countries with serious gun control have much lower gun death rates. Was that your intention?

So what?


Odd that you liberals defend a woman's right to choose to end a fetus's life , yet cry that guns make it easier for a person to choose to end their OWN life.

Stupid pro lifers.

What if a Doctor used a gun to help a patient commit suicide.....that must tie the anti gunners into knots trying to figure that one out......

Even better...would they support doctors using guns to perform abortions?