Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?

[Immanuel]

Arguing with "people on my side" and then assigning me their position is bullshit. Then to call me not a man?

Fuck off

I didn't say you were not a man. I just said you were not man enough to hold a discussion with someone who disagrees with you.

Immie

I have had conversations with many people in this thread. The conversation has only gone south with trolls. You have done nothing in OUR conversation other than stupid anticdotes and played semantics with words.

And as is my "pattern" we are done.

All you have done since you returned to this conversation after I entered it is whine. You have not disputed a single thing I said. You have not presented one argument against what I said... you just keep whining.

Don't think it hurts my feelings that you can't have a discussion with people who don't agree with you. I prefer to discuss issues with people that don't agree with me but don't make up "semantic" lies as you just did. I don't need you to reinforce my beliefs. I'd rather you prove me wrong, but so far that has not been the case.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

You haven't comprehend what I said.
Police officers who are assigned to schools don't have combat training. Why would teachers have to have combat training when police officers at school aren't required to have it?

Well, first of all, those resource officers do have police training and many of them may also have prior combat training in the military or what have you. You are talking about arming people with no real training at all and allowing them to roam the halls of school with those weapons or maybe it is only during an assault situation (a very stressful time) that you are willing to let them roam the halls armed.

Regardless of when you want to let them roam the halls armed, I am concerned that you are throwing gasoline on the fire to extinguish it.

Immie

Did Adam Lanza have some sort of "prior combat training in the military or what have you."?

Please explain what that has to do with this discussion.

Immie

 

[Cecilie1200]

First-grade teacher Kaitlin Roig, 29, heard the gunshots in Sandy Hook Elementary and got up, closed her classroom door, ushered her students into the class bathroom, and wedged a storage unit in front of the door. When the police came to let her and her students out, she made them first slide their badges under the door to prove they were really cops, and not the gunman trying to trick her.

First grade teacher Vicki Soto, 27, tried to usher her students into a closet, thereby putting her body between them and the gunman, and was shot and killed.

Principal Dawn Hochsprung, 47, reportedly heard the gunshots and immediately jumped up and ran toward them. She also reportedly was shot and killed while trying to lunge at the gunman.

Music teacher Maryrose Kristopik reportedly ushered her students into a closet and barricaded the door to her classroom as the gunman hammered on it.

An unnamed teacher pulled two boys out of the line of fire and into a classroom, saving both their lives.

The school's custodian allegedly ran down the hallway, warning everyone that there was a gunman in the school, which gave many teachers and students a chance to hide or get away.

These are the people the left thinks are too stupid, too hysterical, too incompetent, too untrustworthy to be allowed guns to protect the children.

Yes, and I can see in these reports somewhere, that if someone would have had a weapon they could have stopped this situation before it had gone that far.. Question, do you reckon they have any more recent pic's of the gunman(?), because it apears they are using some old pic's that dipict this guy as a skinney weakling of a feller, instead of someone smart enough or strong enough to pull this off like he did.

I don't think "skinny" and "smart" are mutually exclusive, and I'm not sure how much physical strength you think is required to do what he did. Kinda one of the points of guns is that they level the playing field for people who AREN'T the biggest and the strongest. Certainly, that's why WOMEN like them for self-defense.

As far as I can tell, he was a skinny 20-year-old kid.

 

[alan1]

Well, first of all, those resource officers do have police training and many of them may also have prior combat training in the military or what have you. You are talking about arming people with no real training at all and allowing them to roam the halls of school with those weapons or maybe it is only during an assault situation (a very stressful time) that you are willing to let them roam the halls armed.

Regardless of when you want to let them roam the halls armed, I am concerned that you are throwing gasoline on the fire to extinguish it.

Immie

Did Adam Lanza have some sort of "prior combat training in the military or what have you."?

Please explain what that has to do with this discussion.

Immie

Yer words, you explain them.

 

[Immanuel]

You haven't comprehend what I said.
Police officers who are assigned to schools don't have combat training. Why would teachers have to have combat training when police officers at school aren't required to have it?

Well, first of all, those resource officers do have police training and many of them may also have prior combat training in the military or what have you. You are talking about arming people with no real training at all and allowing them to roam the halls of school with those weapons or maybe it is only during an assault situation (a very stressful time) that you are willing to let them roam the halls armed.

Regardless of when you want to let them roam the halls armed, I am concerned that you are throwing gasoline on the fire to extinguish it.

Immie

ok now we are getting some where
In North Carolina to conceal carry you must be trained and the same firearms training is what the police get.
Hows that?

That does not relieve my fear that you are putting teachers into positions that they are not qualified to be in.

It does not relieve my fear that you are putting loaded weapons on school grounds and assuming that a student will not get their hands on one of those weapons and kill him or herself or other students.

It does not relieve my fear that it is generally more likely that an innocent person gets killed or injured by a legal firearm in the home (in this case it would be a school) by accident than a crazy ________________ (insert the word Cecile used above) gets stopped from committing such heinous crimes.

I simply believe this is a bad idea.

Immie

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Did Adam Lanza have some sort of "prior combat training in the military or what have you."?

Please explain what that has to do with this discussion.

Immie

Yer words, you explain them.

I thought it was pretty obvious. But then again look how he interpereted my posts...

 

[Immanuel]

Did Adam Lanza have some sort of "prior combat training in the military or what have you."?

Please explain what that has to do with this discussion.

Immie

Yer words, you explain them.

Irrelevant. One need not have prior combat training in order to be a crazed maniac that kills 20 children and 7 adults indiscriminately.

On the other hand, when it comes to allowing sane individuals to carry weapons on school grounds, I would think you would want them trained before you gave them a weapon and said, "take care of my children".

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Please explain what that has to do with this discussion.

Immie

Yer words, you explain them.

I thought it was pretty obvious. But then again look how he interpereted my posts...

What bullshit. You're posts since you started discussing this with me have been nothing but crying like a three year old.

Immie

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well, first of all, those resource officers do have police training and many of them may also have prior combat training in the military or what have you. You are talking about arming people with no real training at all and allowing them to roam the halls of school with those weapons or maybe it is only during an assault situation (a very stressful time) that you are willing to let them roam the halls armed.

Regardless of when you want to let them roam the halls armed, I am concerned that you are throwing gasoline on the fire to extinguish it.

Immie

ok now we are getting some where
In North Carolina to conceal carry you must be trained and the same firearms training is what the police get.
Hows that?

That does not relieve my fear that you are putting teachers into positions that they are not qualified to be in.

It does not relieve my fear that you are putting loaded weapons on school grounds and assuming that a student will not get their hands on one of those weapons and kill him or herself or other students.

It does not relieve my fear that it is generally more likely that an innocent person gets killed or injured by a legal firearm in the home (in this case it would be a school) by accident than a crazy ________________ (insert the word Cecile used above) gets stopped from committing such heinous crimes.

I simply believe this is a bad idea.

Immie

I'd whether have a trained teacher with a gun on school grounds than a criminal intent on killing children.

 

[Immanuel]

Yer words, you explain them.

I thought it was pretty obvious. But then again look how he interpereted my posts...

What bullshit. You're posts since you started discussing this with me have been nothing but crying like a three year old.

Immie

First of all no teachers would be literally armed. The weapons would be kept under lock. Second of all there would be 0 need for govt training as there are plenty of private organization who would love the opportunity to teach basic fire arm skills. Thirdly your attempts to troll the thread with your pathetic hyperbole is just that....pathetic

Keeping the firearms locked up would not be a very good idea in my opinion. What happens if the first person shot is the one with the key?

Teachers CAN NOT be allowed to posses firearms on their persons. That is asking for future tragedies. Multiple lock boxes with digital passcode entry numbers that are know by all who are trained is sufficient.

It never occured to me that someone would think I ment literally armed. That's beyond insane.

My apologies on that last post. I went back and looked. You made this post and I agree with you. I had thought that was a post and that portion of the discussion was from BigReb, but I am mistaken, you have participated in this discussion.

For the record, I agree with you that Teachers CANNOt be allowed to possess firearms on their person and that is asking for future tragedies. I completely agree with you.

As for locking up the firearms... first off, I don't think it would save lives. But that would be for further discussion.

Immie

 

[Cecilie1200]

Please explain what that has to do with this discussion.

Immie

Yer words, you explain them.

Irrelevant. One need not have prior combat training in order to be a crazed maniac that kills 20 children and 7 adults indiscriminately.

On the other hand, when it comes to allowing sane individuals to carry weapons on school grounds, I would think you would want them trained before you gave them a weapon and said, "take care of my children".

Immie

No one has suggested simply handing all the teachers guns and saying, "Have at." But there's a wide, wide gulf between that and your strange notion that they should be "combat-trained".

 

[Immanuel]

ok now we are getting some where
In North Carolina to conceal carry you must be trained and the same firearms training is what the police get.
Hows that?

That does not relieve my fear that you are putting teachers into positions that they are not qualified to be in.

It does not relieve my fear that you are putting loaded weapons on school grounds and assuming that a student will not get their hands on one of those weapons and kill him or herself or other students.

It does not relieve my fear that it is generally more likely that an innocent person gets killed or injured by a legal firearm in the home (in this case it would be a school) by accident than a crazy ________________ (insert the word Cecile used above) gets stopped from committing such heinous crimes.

I simply believe this is a bad idea.

Immie

I'd whether have a trained teacher with a gun on school grounds than a criminal intent on killing children.

Wouldn't we all? I know I would.

But that is not saying much. Of course, we would all rather have our kids safe, but the risk of having a child killed by accident with a legal gun on campus would still be greater than the risk of a crazed gunman getting the child... albeit the difference in risk is shrinking.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Yer words, you explain them.

Irrelevant. One need not have prior combat training in order to be a crazed maniac that kills 20 children and 7 adults indiscriminately.

On the other hand, when it comes to allowing sane individuals to carry weapons on school grounds, I would think you would want them trained before you gave them a weapon and said, "take care of my children".

Immie

No one has suggested simply handing all the teachers guns and saying, "Have at." But there's a wide, wide gulf between that and your strange notion that they should be "combat-trained".

Sorry, I disagree with you. I think it is literally f'ing foolish to arm someone half-assed trained in firearms on school grounds.

Even if we are talking about the teachers only having access to the weapons in a defensive situation against an assault like what happened two days ago, we are talking about those teachers carrying weapons under a very stressful situation, i.e. the guy that walks around the corner in front of me could be the shooter... BAM!!! He's dead... oh wait, that was not the shooter, that was the janitor or worse yet, it was an innocent kid just trying to get away. Or a teacher and her class hiding in the room during an attack blowing away the cop who passes by the window because she thought he was the crazed maniac.

I can't imagine how stressful those minutes would be.

I think it is a terrible mistake to make and would lead to children being hurt or killed by well intentioned teachers.

Immie

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, first of all, those resource officers do have police training and many of them may also have prior combat training in the military or what have you. You are talking about arming people with no real training at all and allowing them to roam the halls of school with those weapons or maybe it is only during an assault situation (a very stressful time) that you are willing to let them roam the halls armed.

Regardless of when you want to let them roam the halls armed, I am concerned that you are throwing gasoline on the fire to extinguish it.

Immie

ok now we are getting some where
In North Carolina to conceal carry you must be trained and the same firearms training is what the police get.
Hows that?

That does not relieve my fear that you are putting teachers into positions that they are not qualified to be in.

It does not relieve my fear that you are putting loaded weapons on school grounds and assuming that a student will not get their hands on one of those weapons and kill him or herself or other students.

It does not relieve my fear that it is generally more likely that an innocent person gets killed or injured by a legal firearm in the home (in this case it would be a school) by accident than a crazy ________________ (insert the word Cecile used above) gets stopped from committing such heinous crimes.

I simply believe this is a bad idea.

Immie

How good an idea was it to have them completely unarmed? Care to make any observations on how THAT worked out?

You'll have to excuse me yet again, but I'm just too busy shuddering in horror at the stories and pictures coming out of Sandy Hook to shudder in horror at whatever visions you might be having of the hypothetical "evils" of arming teachers.

Gosh, never mind protecting students from the completely real and non-hypothetical mass murderers who are making a habit of turning our schools into their own private shooting galleries. What we REALLY need to protect against is Immie's scary nightmares that a student MIGHT get a gun away from his teacher (who is obviously an incompetent, thoughtless dolt, but is nevertheless entrusted with our children) and hurt himself.

I really hope the disdain with which I am viewing these nonsensical priorities is coming through completely.

Perhaps a dose of reality will relieve your fear that firearms in the home are more dangerous to the owner than they are protective. Not really my job to make you informed, and REALLY not my job to advocate policy based on your unwillingness to inform yourself.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That does not relieve my fear that you are putting teachers into positions that they are not qualified to be in.

It does not relieve my fear that you are putting loaded weapons on school grounds and assuming that a student will not get their hands on one of those weapons and kill him or herself or other students.

It does not relieve my fear that it is generally more likely that an innocent person gets killed or injured by a legal firearm in the home (in this case it would be a school) by accident than a crazy ________________ (insert the word Cecile used above) gets stopped from committing such heinous crimes.

I simply believe this is a bad idea.

Immie

I'd whether have a trained teacher with a gun on school grounds than a criminal intent on killing children.

Wouldn't we all? I know I would.

But that is not saying much. Of course, we would all rather have our kids safe, but the risk of having a child killed by accident with a legal gun on campus would still be greater than the risk of a crazed gunman getting the child... albeit the difference in risk is shrinking.

Immie

Really? The risk would be greater? Prove it, and I DON'T mean with your personal, fevered imaginings of "what could happen".

And while we're at it, let's hear YOUR brilliant plan for keeping our children safe while surrounding them with utterly unarmed and helpless caretakers, for fear that their caretakers MIGHT be crazy and dangerous, or thoughtless and incompetent, and either way utterly untrustworthy (but only with guns, not with the children themselves).

 

[Cecilie1200]

Irrelevant. One need not have prior combat training in order to be a crazed maniac that kills 20 children and 7 adults indiscriminately.

On the other hand, when it comes to allowing sane individuals to carry weapons on school grounds, I would think you would want them trained before you gave them a weapon and said, "take care of my children".

Immie

No one has suggested simply handing all the teachers guns and saying, "Have at." But there's a wide, wide gulf between that and your strange notion that they should be "combat-trained".

Sorry, I disagree with you. I think it is literally f'ing foolish to arm someone half-assed trained in firearms on school grounds.

Y'know, I looked feverishly through my posts for the place where I specified, or even hinted at "half-assed trained" for the armed teachers. Since this, in fact, appeared NOWHERE in any of my posts, stated or implied, and was therefore only attributed to me by you so that you could argue against it, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to ask you to go fuck yourself with your own strawman.

Next bit of drivel.

Even if we are talking about the teachers only having access to the weapons in a defensive situation against an assault like what happened two days ago, we are talking about those teachers carrying weapons under a very stressful situation, i.e. the guy that walks around the corner in front of me could be the shooter... BAM!!! He's dead... oh wait, that was not the shooter, that was the janitor or worse yet, it was an innocent kid just trying to get away. Or a teacher and her class hiding in the room during an attack blowing away the cop who passes by the window because she thought he was the crazed maniac.

Yeah, can't imagine what could be worse than the utterly hypothetical possibility that the people educating and caring for our children are so fucking stupid they might just start firing wildly at anything that moves . . . except maybe the VERY REAL picture of them standing helplessly by their students as they're all gunned down in job lots.

All you're telling me is that YOU are an incompetent asshole who shouldn't be trusted with anything more dangerous than a butter knife. I'll be happy to stipulate to that, but it has fuck-all to do with whether or not other people are able to keep their heads and act responsibly in stressful situations, instead of folding up like cheap lawn furniture.

Go look at the stories I posted of how those teachers acted in the face of gunfire with no way of defending themselves at all, and try . . . TRY to tell me you think they're a bunch of blubbering, hysterical fools who can't be trusted. Go on. I dare you.

I can't imagine how stressful those minutes would be.

Probably less stressful than facing that same danger with no defense at all.

I think it is a terrible mistake to make and would lead to children being hurt or killed by well intentioned teachers.

Immie

Probably in a lot fewer numbers than are ALREADY being hurt and killed by ill-intentioned lunatics.

Your priorities are almost as fucked as your brain.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Twenty children and 6 teachers/administrators killed by a lone gunman in Newtown, Connecticut.

Liberal reaction: "We can't arm teachers! Someone might get hurt!"

I think that pretty much sums up anything there is to say, except . . .

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

 

[Immanuel]

I'd whether have a trained teacher with a gun on school grounds than a criminal intent on killing children.

Wouldn't we all? I know I would.

But that is not saying much. Of course, we would all rather have our kids safe, but the risk of having a child killed by accident with a legal gun on campus would still be greater than the risk of a crazed gunman getting the child... albeit the difference in risk is shrinking.

Immie

Really? The risk would be greater? Prove it, and I DON'T mean with your personal, fevered imaginings of "what could happen".

And while we're at it, let's hear YOUR brilliant plan for keeping our children safe while surrounding them with utterly unarmed and helpless caretakers, for fear that their caretakers MIGHT be crazy and dangerous, or thoughtless and incompetent, and either way utterly untrustworthy (but only with guns, not with the children themselves).

Look it up yourself. You've seen as many of the reports as I have about guns in the home being more likely to kill or injure a loved one than an intruder. In this case, I don't have to do your googling for you.

I never said I had a brilliant idea on how to solve this problem, but being stupid and arming untrained teachers sure is not going to be in the top 150 of any ideas I would come up with. Welcoming firearms to school grounds is about as intelligent as trying to put out a fire with lighter fluid.

Immie

 

[Middleoftheroad]

One of the many problems that I see with this, is too many people assume that shooting someone is easy. It is 100% the exact opposite, especially in high stress situations. Police actually hit the suspects they were shooting at about 15-20% of the time. These are men and women that are trained heavily in the use of guns. There is no way that teachers are going to be nearly as trained or as ready as police are.

Military kill people with friendly fire, police do, vice-presidents shoot people on accident while hunting. Teachers? Nah they could never make a mistake.

 

[Immanuel]

No one has suggested simply handing all the teachers guns and saying, "Have at." But there's a wide, wide gulf between that and your strange notion that they should be "combat-trained".

Sorry, I disagree with you. I think it is literally f'ing foolish to arm someone half-assed trained in firearms on school grounds.

Y'know, I looked feverishly through my posts for the place where I specified, or even hinted at "half-assed trained" for the armed teachers. Since this, in fact, appeared NOWHERE in any of my posts, stated or implied, and was therefore only attributed to me by you so that you could argue against it, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to ask you to go fuck yourself with your own strawman.

Next bit of drivel.



Yeah, can't imagine what could be worse than the utterly hypothetical possibility that the people educating and caring for our children are so fucking stupid they might just start firing wildly at anything that moves . . . except maybe the VERY REAL picture of them standing helplessly by their students as they're all gunned down in job lots.

All you're telling me is that YOU are an incompetent asshole who shouldn't be trusted with anything more dangerous than a butter knife. I'll be happy to stipulate to that, but it has fuck-all to do with whether or not other people are able to keep their heads and act responsibly in stressful situations, instead of folding up like cheap lawn furniture.

Go look at the stories I posted of how those teachers acted in the face of gunfire with no way of defending themselves at all, and try . . . TRY to tell me you think they're a bunch of blubbering, hysterical fools who can't be trusted. Go on. I dare you.

I can't imagine how stressful those minutes would be.

Probably less stressful than facing that same danger with no defense at all.

I think it is a terrible mistake to make and would lead to children being hurt or killed by well intentioned teachers.

Immie

Probably in a lot fewer numbers than are ALREADY being hurt and killed by ill-intentioned lunatics.

Your priorities are almost as fucked as your brain.

Are you frigging insane? Of course that is what you have been implying in this entire discussion. Yes, let's just put out this fire with lighter fluid. Next you will be suggesting we arm the students as well.

What is the problem with you morons (gramps, KG and Cecile)? You can't handle a bit of disagreement and discuss it with even an ounce of integrity? Incompetant Asshole? Because I don't bow to the bitches who think they know everything about everything God put on this earth?

Give me a break! You can't handle disagreement, but you want the right to carry firearms on public school grounds? Are you frigging serious? Evidence suggests that if you were a teacher and a student disagreed with you, his life would be in jeopardy and you want to carry weapons on public school grounds? You can't be serious.

Discuss this with some intelligence and integrity or STFU.

Immie